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[thebigdawg]

Automatic rejection

 

[Lucca]

Of course it's impressive. I doubt it's a red flag anywhere. Of course there's no difference between a 4.0 and a 3.99. Not even between 4.0 and 3.95 tbh. 3.9 and 4.0 are different. No it probably won't be the single deciding factor. I doubt there is such a thing as a "single deciding factor" for anyone in admissions unless their app is barren besides a single extremely impressive accolade and I doubt very many of such individuals exist

 

[aalamruad]

Out of curiosity, how are 4.0 GPAs (in all classes taken) looked at by Adcoms?

Does it impress people?
Is it something that props one applicant over another, similar to a really unique EC?
Could it be the differentiator between an acceptance/rejection? If so in what cases?
Is it a potential red flag? (Nerdy type, only focuses on school)
Is there any difference between a 4.0, 3.99, 3.90 in the eyes of an Adcom?
Does it not have any noticeable effect?
Are 4.0s decently common or pretty rare?

(Also, lets assume average ECs and Average/Above average matriculant MCAT)

Honestly asking out of genuine curiosity; no vested interest or intention to start troll war. Please keep it civil 🙂

All 9 of the questions you asked were essentially just the first question posed in negligibly different ways haha

 

[WedgeDawg]

Out of curiosity, how are 4.0 GPAs (in all classes taken) looked at by Adcoms?

Does it impress people?

Maybe if you come from WashU, Princeton, MIT, or Hopkins

Is it something that props one applicant over another, similar to a really unique EC?

Doubtful

Could it be the differentiator between an acceptance/rejection? If so in what cases?

no

Is it a potential red flag? (Nerdy type, only focuses on school)

no

Is there any difference between a 4.0, 3.99, 3.90 in the eyes of an Adcom?

no

Does it not have any noticeable effect?

probably

Are 4.0s decently common or pretty rare?

Probably fairly uncommon, but not anything to write home about

(Also, lets assume average ECs and Average/Above average matriculant MCAT)

okay

Honestly asking out of genuine curiosity; no vested interest or intention to start troll war. Please keep it civil 🙂

 

[eteshoe]

Like they refused to settle for anything but an A in every single thing. Impressive by all accounts but man is that an exhausting process.

Btw - I am not saying I was one of those 4.0 kids (close but not close enough to lose any sleep over)

 

[efle]

I'd find it extremely impressive! I'd guess it's rare among students in general but perhaps not quite unicorn status for premeds, since all of these med schools have 10+% of accepted students at 4.00 from last cycle:

WashU
Stanford
Johns Hopkins
Baylor
Harvard
UT Houston
Louisiana State
U of South Alabama
U of South Dakota
U of Alabama
U of Mississippi

 

[ridethecliche]

Adcomms look at the 4.0 GPA and long list of EC's and go "dang, this kid is a straight up loser that didn't have a life".

Auto-reject.

Or maybe they put value on hard work and personal growth.

nah...

 

[Lawpy]

I'd find it extremely impressive! I'd guess it's rare among students in general but perhaps not quite unicorn status for premeds, since all of these med schools have 10+% of accepted students at 4.00 from last cycle:

WashU
Stanford
Johns Hopkins
Baylor
Harvard
UT Houston
Louisiana State
U of South Alabama
U of South Dakota
U of Alabama
U of Mississippi

Maybe if you come from WashU, Princeton, MIT, or Hopkins

What about UChicago, where fun goes to die? Or was it implicit in your posts?

 

[efle]

I think Wedgie is being hyperbolic, there are a hell of a lot more than 4 schools where a 4.0 is tough to make!

 

[WedgeDawg]

I think Wedgie is being hyperbolic, there are a hell of a lot more than 4 schools where a 4.0 is tough to make!

I'm sure it's tough at a lot of places, but I don't think it's inherently more impressive than a 3.9 regardless of where you are

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Depends. 4.0 and a 40 MCAT? That's impressive. 4.0 and a 24? Not so much. A 4.0 can be really impressive in the right context, but if someone majors in ceramics (just using an example) and takes all pre-reqs at DCC (Dinky Community College) then it is less impressive

 

[aalamruad]

Depends. 4.0 and a 40 MCAT? That's impressive. 4.0 and a 24? Not so much. A 4.0 can be really impressive in the right context, but if someone majors in ceramics (just using an example) and takes all pre-reqs at DCC (Dinky Community College) then it is less impressive

lol at "Dinky Community College" 🤣

For the record, the courses I took at my CC (which included about half of the prereqs) were significantly more challenging and educational than has been my experience at a mid-tier UC so far. There certainly are plenty of "DCC's" out there, but there's really no way of being able to accurately judge that without direct experience with that particular institution. Not calling you out for anything you said specifically, but just thought I'd throw that PSA out there.

 

[Lawpy]

lol at "Dinky Community College" 🤣

For the record, the courses I took at my CC (which included about half of the prereqs) were significantly more challenging and educational than has been my experience at a mid-tier UC so far. There certainly are plenty of "DCC's" out there, but there's really no way of being able to accurately judge that without direct experience with that particular institution. Not calling you out for anything you said specifically, but just thought I'd throw that PSA out there.

That has to do with individual course difficulty set by the professor (which happens in every university/college/CC etc) I think we can agree that selectivity of undergrad and overall national reputation provide an important context to the cGPA/sGPA.

 

[aalamruad]

That has to do with individual course difficulty set by the professor (which happens in every university/college/CC etc) I think we can agree that selectivity of undergrad and overall national reputation provide an important context to the cGPA/sGPA.

At both my CC and UC, there actually seems to be a significant amount of oversight from administration regarding the difficulty of the courses. My UC bio professor was placed on probation for failing too many students, and my CC o-chem professor consistently complained about administration forcing certain grade distributions on him, to provide a couple quick examples.

And in regards to your second point, I'm not sure that we can really conclude that, given that even med schools often view undergrad selectivity and national rep as largely negligible in reference to GPA disparity between individual applicants. I'd argue that med schools alone determine whether or not the context of GPA is important.

 

[efle]

I'm sure it's tough at a lot of places, but I don't think it's inherently more impressive than a 3.9 regardless of where you are

Agree to disagree, I think dropping a third of your grades by a notch is significant, especially in the zone approaching perfect performance. Never once receiving an A- takes more than allowing one or two per semester.

At both my CC and UC, there actually seems to be a significant amount of oversight from administration regarding the difficulty of the courses. My UC bio professor was placed on probation for failing too many students, and my CC o-chem professor consistently complained about administration forcing certain grade distributions on him, to provide a couple quick examples.

And in regards to your second point, I'm not sure that we can really conclude that, given that even med schools often view undergrad selectivity and national rep as largely negligible in reference to GPA disparity between individual applicants. I'd argue that med schools alone determine whether or not the context of GPA is important.

The CCs in Cali are known for mostly being excellent quality and prepping students well for the UCs they transfer into, so not the best example!

 

[aalamruad]

Agree to disagree, I think dropping a third of your grades by a notch is significant, especially in the zone approaching perfect performance. Never once receiving an A- takes more than allowing one or two per semester.


The CCs in Cali are known for mostly being excellent quality and prepping students well for the UCs they transfer into, so not the best example!

I agree with everything in your post, except for your usage of "Cali"

 

[efle]

I agree with everything in your post, except for your usage of "Cali"

Whatever brah, it's hella convenient to abbreviate, we SoCal natives like our lives easy and simple

 

[LizzyM]

If the 4.0 comes with more than one W, it looks like strategic withdrawals to protect the GPA. Not good.
If the student has a LOR that indicates that they were a grade grubber who got a 98 and argued over the 2 lost points, not good.
If the degree if difficulty of the coursework was low (mostly intro courses, even in junior and senior year), not good.

Anything in the 3.96-3.99 range is as good as a 4.0. In fact, some adcoms express admiration for the 3.96 student over the 4.0 for not being "perfect".

If you have a 4.0 going into the application cycle, Bravo! Let's hope you have the rest of the package to match.
If you don't have a 4.0 going in, don't sweat it.

 

[Officer Farva]

Doesn't happen at my school for science/engineering majors. Even 3.8s we kind of joke about. People are proud to get a 3.5+ here.

My old lab partner had a ~4.0. He had zero ECs except for hospital volunteering for a couple of hours each week. He spent summers pre-studying for classes 9-5 each day. He is the one 4.0 I know of, or above a 3.8 at my school that I know about.

If people could maintain a 4.0 with good extracurricular a and mcat I assume it would be quite respectable.

 

[Lucca]

When I had a 4.0 I was a robot, uninterested in anything but perfection. Now that I have a 3.9X I'm an interesting and dynamic person.



Lol


I think we all want to believe that the 4.0/40 people are "automatons" and that the academically perfect or exceedingly scholarly are actually just nerds who could never talk to a person to save their lives. I'm sure *some* people are like that but mostly I just think it's wishful thinking. All of the people I know who have hit that end of the spectrum academically are amazing people and well rounded.

 

[JustAPhD]

When I had a 4.0 I was a robot, uninterested in anything but perfection. Now that I have a 3.9X I'm an interesting and dynamic person.

Lol

I think we all want to believe that the 4.0/40 people are "automatons" and that the academically perfect or exceedingly scholarly are actually just nerds who could never talk to a person to save their lives. I'm sure *some* people are like that but mostly I just think it's wishful thinking. All of the people I know who have hit that end of the spectrum academically are amazing people and well rounded.

Agreed. In undergrad a good friend of mine was of the 4.0/40 type and he hardly ever studied, was an athlete, and partied more than his fair share. Some people are just freaky smart by nature.

 

[enchantediris]

When I had a 4.0 I was a robot, uninterested in anything but perfection. Now that I have a 3.9X I'm an interesting and dynamic person.



Lol


I think we all want to believe that the 4.0/40 people are "automatons" and that the academically perfect or exceedingly scholarly are actually just nerds who could never talk to a person to save their lives. I'm sure *some* people are like that but mostly I just think it's wishful thinking. All of the people I know who have hit that end of the spectrum academically are amazing people and well rounded.

To be fair, getting a B+ in my second semester of freshman year was one of the best things that happened to me because it took off the pressure I felt to maintain a 4.0. Now that I'm almost done with classes, I actually wish that I had taken a few more A-'s and spent more time hanging out with friends and relaxing. However, I will be the first to admit that I'm not a genius and in my upper level classes, the difference between a B and A meant exponentially more work.

 

[Nursultan Tulyakbay]

In fact, some adcoms express admiration for the 3.96 student over the 4.0 for not being "perfect".

Be careful saying stuff like that. Knowing this community soon threads will pop up saying "I have a 4.0, should I get a B to seem more admirable???"

 

[efle]

lol! It'll be another box to check in no time.

"What's the best kind of imperfection? Should I do poorly in a class, get caught with alcohol, or just ask one of my letter writers to say I smell bad?"

 

[zero0]

Be careful saying stuff like that. Knowing this community soon threads will pop up saying "I have a 4.0, should I get a B to seem more admirable???"

I think that's already a thread

 

[Goro]

Yes
Does it impress people?

See below. Keep in mind that this is not a zero sum game.
Is it something that props one applicant over another, similar to a really unique EC?

No. Life is never, ever this simple. If you're a robot or a sociopath, no Adcom member is going to say "but s/he got a 4.0!"
Could it be the differentiator between an acceptance/rejection? If so in what cases?

On what planet could this possibly be a red flag?????
Is it a potential red flag? (Nerdy type, only focuses on school)

No
Is there any difference between a 4.0, 3.99, 3.90 in the eyes of an Adcom?

See the wise LizzyM's comments above. Everything has to be viewed in context.
Does it not have any noticeable effect?

At my school, they're rare. Probably commonplace at top 20s, which have median GPAs of 3.7+

Are 4.0s decently common or pretty rare?

 

[Bio4]

I have a 4.0 GPA, but this has never been a topic during the interviews. Having a 4.0 helps in getting interviews, but it's the other stuff that gets you into med school.

 

[Doudline]

When I had a 4.0 I was a robot, uninterested in anything but perfection. Now that I have a 3.9X I'm an interesting and dynamic person.



Lol


I think we all want to believe that the 4.0/40 people are "automatons" and that the academically perfect or exceedingly scholarly are actually just nerds who could never talk to a person to save their lives. I'm sure *some* people are like that but mostly I just think it's wishful thinking. All of the people I know who have hit that end of the spectrum academically are amazing people and well rounded.

I doubt the stereotype is completely unfounded.

I remember from psych of development that kids and teens who score higher in "Openness to experience" (Big 5) perform more poorly in school, and vice-versa. Most likely because a vast number of interests makes it more difficult to concentrate on targeted and repetitive tasks like studying.

 

[efle]

I've always thought the 4.0 robot logic seemed backwards. You'd think the kids with their nose in books 24/7 would be the ones struggling hard to keep their grades up, not the people that academics comes easy for

 

[timeflies]

Whatever brah, it's hella convenient to abbreviate, we SoCal natives like our lives easy and simple

Something doesn't add up here..

 

[Nursultan Tulyakbay]

lol! It'll be another box to check in no time.

"What's the best kind of imperfection? Should I do poorly in a class, get caught with alcohol, or just ask one of my letter writers to say I smell bad?"

The best kind is a nice, subtle, mid-tier imperfection.

 

[efle]

Something doesn't add up here..

Kids in san diego use bay area slang ironically

 

[timeflies]

Kids in san diego use bay area slang ironically

As a bay area transplant in san diego, I've found that this is where my slang came to die..haha

 

[HopefulApp23]

I got a 4.0 and scored in the 100th percentile MCAT. I also went out to the bars every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night at least - actually usually more nights than that - when I was in undergrad (private top 50 in a party town). None of my friends had any idea that I made the best grades in our class, and most still don't know since I never talked about it and haven't told many people I'm going to med school. I've attended 6 interviews so far (declined some) and have been accepted after every one of them.

Most of the people on SDN will see this post as a "humble brag", but I'm trying to prevent generalizations about people who have top stats. Maybe some of us are ridiculously awkward, but others of us are interested in partying with friends on a Thursday night and drunkenly eating cheese fries at 2 a.m. and not talking about what exact percentage we got on our last orgo test. People on SDN sometimes seem to think that applicants with my stats must be such goobers and blow the interviews. I actually feel pretty relaxed and enjoy the experience.

I'm a non-trad, ORM from a wealthy background with ridiculous family support - emotional, intellectual, financial, you name it. I'm more impressed by my friends who had to work their way through college to pay the bills and still managed a 3.0 than I am by my accomplishments, which I owe to my support system. I just really dislike the generalizations that tend to be made about people based on numbers on this website. I know those of you with "low stats" hate it even more than I do, but I hope you realize it goes both ways. That is all!

Oh, and I really love lurking on these forums, and for the most part SDNers are great. What an awesome community. Now back to Netflix...