Locums Firms: Red Flags, Threats, Strong Arming

[iish]

Anyone on this forum with experience with locums firms ever had an interaction with a firm where the firm threatened or strong armed you or you noticed any other red flags (aside from the amount of money they suck from doctors)?

Have noticed some unethical behavior and want to know who the best people to report or notify in EM would be. Is there even such a thing?

In my experience, the locums firm employee felt sufficiently empowered to behave this way which leads me to believe this is a trend in the way they treat physicians.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Pudortu]

Can you please give some details to us?

 

[GeneralVeers]

I am not sure how a locums agency can strong arm any physician. They are essentially at our mercy and have no leverage. I too am curious.....

 

[iish]

Can you please give some details to us?

Without going into too much detail. Signed an IC contract with a firm. Never a contract to work at any hospital for a set rate. When I decided not to move forward with a hospital we had been in talks with, the recruiter threatened to report me to the medical board for patient abandonment (at a hospital I had never set foot in, had never been credentialed to work at, and never signed a contract to work at) and threatened legal action noting that I agreed over an email to work X shifts on Y days. I called bluff on all this, went to the head of the division and obtained an apology.

While my issue is resolved, I was wondering if this the standard MO of locums firms to strong arm doctors with threats and harassment? The recruiter seemed to be comfortable issuing such threats, which leads me to believe that this tactic has been used before and has worked on others. I for one am disgusted.

Have we as a specialty/profession allowed ourselves to be threatened and steam rolled by recruiters at locums companies?

We need to take our profession back.

 

[Pudortu]

To be perfectly honest, I wish you would name the locums company and the recruiter so that we would never work with them again and put them out of business.

 

[iish]

To be perfectly honest, I wish you would name the locums company and the recruiter so that we would never work with them again and put them out of business.

Don't want to engage any further with this company in any way shape or form so likely won't be naming them here.

I wonder, is this the way management instructs recruiters to treat physicians to get them to generate revenue for the locums company? I got the sense that while the division VP was not happy to have had this conversation, there was no real remorse for the behavior on display. Even the recruiter gave no real reason for his lies and threats.

Why do we even go through locums companies? They have to legally tell us which hospital they are sending our CV to. As soon as we find out which hospital, say no thanks, hang up the phone, and call the medical director directly. Always better to talk directly to another emergency doctor and negotiate rates without a middle man.

Does ACEP care about this? Would they take reports of such behavior seriously or is their dependence on the ER corporate world too deep to be on the side of the physician?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Without going into too much detail. Signed an IC contract with a firm. Never a contract to work at any hospital for a set rate. When I decided not to move forward with a hospital we had been in talks with, the recruiter threatened to report me to the medical board for patient abandonment (at a hospital I had never set foot in, had never been credentialed to work at, and never signed a contract to work at) and threatened legal action noting that I agreed over an email to work X shifts on Y days. I called bluff on all this, went to the head of the division and obtained an apology.

While my issue is resolved, I was wondering if this the standard MO of locums firms to strong arm doctors with threats and harassment? The recruiter seemed to be comfortable issuing such threats, which leads me to believe that this tactic has been used before and has worked on others. I for one am disgusted.

Have we as a specialty/profession allowed ourselves to be threatened and steam rolled by recruiters at locums companies?

We need to take our profession back.

Sounds like those car salesman that make you write that you will purchase a car for a set price and then threaten you when you find a cheaper deal at another dealership.

Don't want to engage any further with this company in any way shape or form so likely won't be naming them here.

I wonder, is this the way management instructs recruiters to treat physicians to get them to generate revenue for the locums company? I got the sense that while the division VP was not happy to have had this conversation, there was no real remorse for the behavior on display. Even the recruiter gave no real reason for his lies and threats.

Why do we even go through locums companies? They have to legally tell us which hospital they are sending our CV to. As soon as we find out which hospital, say no thanks, hang up the phone, and call the medical director directly. Always better to talk directly to another emergency doctor and negotiate rates without a middle man.

Does ACEP care about this? Would they take reports of such behavior seriously or is their dependence on the ER corporate world too deep to be on the side of the physician?

often because CMGs are able to negotiate higher rates than you would inidividually because they manage a large volume of physicians. Plus they usually have something in their contract that you cant independently approach a hospital that youve agreed to work for the locums company at.

I havent heard about anything that would damage a hair on the head of CMGs from ACEP. Cant bite the hand that feeds them apparently.

 

[alphaholic06]

The same ACEP that allows non-residency trained, non EM board physicians to become FACEP. Please, ACEP doesn't care. They don't want to upset their corporate overlords.

 

[deleted109597]

The same ACEP that allows non-residency trained, non EM board physicians to become FACEP. Please, ACEP doesn't care. They don't want to upset their corporate overlords.

The second part is true. The first part is not, at least not anymore. Yes, there were concessions a decade ago, but they've been corrected. You can close a door once it's opened, but the people that got through can stay usually.

 

[iish]

We all know ACEP has sold out to the corporates.

Getting back on track, has anyone else had such experiences with locums groups or is this likely just a rogue recruiter?

 

[bravotwozero]

I've never had that threat from a locums agency, or from a hospital.

I've had a locums recruiter threaten to stop sending his clients to fill their shifts though, when he called BS on their ridiculous credentialling requirements for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[namethatsmell]

I appreciate you taking the time to bring this issue up and share your experience. That said, I don't quite follow your logic here.

On the one hand you bring up a very valid point that we may be too soft and are allowing the business of medicine to push us around:

Have we as a specialty/profession allowed ourselves to be threatened and steam rolled by recruiters at locums companies?

But then you say:

Don't want to engage any further with this company in any way shape or form so likely won't be naming them here.

Why are you declining to name the company?

Your posts say that 1) you want us physicians to start standing up for ourselves, 2) that the company "apologized" but doesn't seem to actually care and may likely treat more of your colleagues like this and 3) you want something to be done about it. Without providing actionable information (ie the group's name) how do you achieve these goals and allow us to protect ourselves? You're concerned ACEP won't do anything about it (probably true), so without naming the company you're giving these locums guys the power to keep operating like this.

Not attacking you, just food for thought.

 

[SmurfThing]

I'd really like to know the name too. I'm in the process of talking to locums agencies for the first time and it's hard to know who to start a relationship with. If someone knows of any agency I should definitely avoid maybe they could make a throwaway account and post it?

 

[shookwell]

Locums companies need you way more than you need them. If there is any red flag or you even just don't like the way they do something just find a different locums company.

 

[gutonc]

From your story, it sounds like you just ran into a douchebag recruiter (which is, of course, redundant), not necessarily an unethical firm. But that it all seems have worked out.

 

[iish]

What prevents us from just calling the facility directly once they tell us which hospital it is? We don't usually sign anything prior to being told which facility they are sending out CVs to. In my experience, beyond making the initial intro, locums firms don't do much

 

[deleted109597]

If they send a CV, and then you call the hospital, the locums company will probably blackball the hospital as well. They will actively discourage the hospital from recruiting people on their own. I doubt you would get a callback from the hospital group.
Also, don't pretend like these are all employed shops. EmCare, TeamHealth, Schumacher, USACS all use locums firms as well. It's actually pretty comical sometimes.

 

[BAM!]

it's an anonymous forum. that alone should empower you to say the locums company's name.

 

[EctopicFetus]

If they send a CV, and then you call the hospital, the locums company will probably blackball the hospital as well. They will actively discourage the hospital from recruiting people on their own. I doubt you would get a callback from the hospital group.
Also, don't pretend like these are all employed shops. EmCare, TeamHealth, Schumacher, USACS all use locums firms as well. It's actually pretty comical sometimes.

indeed. D&Y is owned by Team Health. Emcare uses a bunch of the recruiters as well.

Oddly enough I considered doing some locums and spoke to a firm and then went directly to the CMG and they told me the only way I could get a higher rate was via locums.

If you are willing to work for less than 50% above their offer you are being way underpaid.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

it's an anonymous forum. that alone should empower you to say the locums company's name.

Nothing on the internet is truly anonymous. When SDN receives a court order to reveal your IP address, they will. I'd recommend you don't say anything you wouldn't say in real life or on the stand. But bear in mind that telling the truth, sticking to the facts, and clearly identifying your opinion is not libel. As a purely hypothetical example, you can say:

"UTALS ended up with the contract at Sumpa Health, the Sumpa CEO was fired, and the democratic group of docs had to leave to find another job. I think their CEO is a jerk and that docs who work for them are scabs cannabilizing their own profession"

But you can't say:

"UTALS stole the contract, the CEO and his wife on the hospital board colluded for their own personal gain, the Sumpa CEO never had any intention of contracting again with the democratic group, and the docs who work for UTALS aren't qualified to get a job anywhere else."

even if you believe it because you can't prove it as fact and it would give those you are badmouthing a case to sue you for libel. Doesn't mean it would be worth it to them to pursue the case nor that they would actually win the case, but it opens a legal door they could go through and makes the case a lot more winnable than the first statement.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Nothing on the internet is truly anonymous. When SDN receives a court order to reveal your IP address, they will. I'd recommend you don't say anything you wouldn't say in real life or on the stand. But bear in mind that telling the truth, sticking to the facts, and clearly identifying your opinion is not libel. As a purely hypothetical example, you can say:

"UTALS ended up with the contract at Sumpa Health, the Sumpa CEO was fired, and the democratic group of docs had to leave to find another job. I think their CEO is a jerk and that docs who work for them are scabs cannabilizing their own profession"

But you can't say:

"UTALS stole the contract, the CEO and his wife on the hospital board colluded for their own personal gain, the Sumpa CEO never had any intention of contracting again with the democratic group, and the docs who work for UTALS aren't qualified to get a job anywhere else."

even if you believe it because you can't prove it as fact and it would give those you are badmouthing a case to sue you for libel. Doesn't mean it would be worth it to them to pursue the case nor that they would actually win the case, but it opens a legal door they could go through and makes the case a lot more winnable than the first statement.

Just insert opinion verbs "I THINK the CEO and his wife colluded for their own personal gain. I BELIEVE the Sumpa CEO never had any intention of contracting the SDG again. I THINK the docs workiing for UTALS arent as qualified as the SDG docs." Or is this not OK either?

 

[BAM!]

OK, let me rephrase -- Use a VPN extension to hide your IP -- then let loose.

Also, if it's true it's not libel, right? If it's not true then you shouldn't be upset.

 

[Siggy]

OK, let me rephrase -- Use a VPN extension to hide your IP -- then let loose.

TOR?

Also, if it's true it's not libel, right? If it's not true then you shouldn't be upset.

Can you explain this to President Trump?