LOL no oversupply

[Ryan_eyeball]

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So I'm sitting in my office playing Xbox 360, since i have a tv for CL teachs. If you're considering doing Optometry as a career, its tough. I love it WHEN you have patients, but its hard when even the AOA will not say that annual exams are important. You're going to make more money and see more patients when you first graduate if you're willing to work more odd hours, and weekends. Sure this could be different depending on location, and the age of the practice. Now this is just my experience. Mondays' and Fridays are the hardest days to get patients in my geographical area.

I fill in at a Walmart on Sundays for 5.5 hours and usually make over a $1,000 because people don't like taking off work (offering something different, and taking mondays off).

Everyone is different and I hope we all find our own success story, but its difficult when the schools are setting us up to fail by opening more. They care about tuition dollars, not about how many are OD's out there. The more we saturate more commercial, and more odd working hours to try to make it. I work commercial, its not horrible, but not as glamorous also.

 

[posner]

So I'm sitting in my office playing Xbox 360, since i have a tv for CL teachs. If you're considering doing Optometry as a career, its tough. I love it WHEN you have patients, but its hard when even the AOA will not say that annual exams are important. You're going to make more money and see more patients when you first graduate if you're willing to work more odd hours, and weekends. Sure this could be different depending on location, and the age of the practice. Now this is just my experience. Mondays' and Fridays are the hardest days to get patients in my geographical area.

I fill in at a Walmart on Sundays for 5.5 hours and usually make over a $1,000 because people don't like taking off work (offering something different, and taking mondays off).

Everyone is different and I hope we all find our own success story, but its difficult when the schools are setting us up to fail by opening more. They care about tuition dollars, not about how many are OD's out there. The more we saturate more commercial, and more odd working hours to try to make it. I work commercial, its not horrible, but not as glamorous also.

Disgusting. The fact that you would bring an X-Box to the office thinking you would have time to play it is the reason that you do actually have time to play....Have fun. In case you havent noticed, patients dont just line up outside your door. Maybe you should spend less time playing XBox and more time figuring out how to market and grow your practice. While I agree there is an oversupply of ODs, and that the responsibility for this lies squarely on the shoulders of the optometry schools, you dont seem to be going beyond the call to build your business.

Posner

 

[posner]

By the way, playing XBox at the office sends a great message to your staff about how they shoud feel about your practice. It likely carries over to the way they treat your patients. Good Idea... Back to XBoX....

Posner

 

[nova2010]

Well said!!!! I'm embarrassed for you X-Box player!!

 

[sniklegem]

I mean, you could at least bring a Nintendo Wii! 🙂

 

[MacGyver]

In case you havent noticed, patients dont just line up outside your door. Maybe you should spend less time playing XBox and more time figuring out how to market and grow your practice

You know that when it becomes necessary to start "marketing" your practice that your field is absolutely and totally oversupplied.

Notice that chiropractors have to do the same thing. They have to go to flea markets and so free spinal screenings to drum up business.

Medicine is getting to be like this more and more. Consider now that LASIK ads are all over the TV and radio. Hospitals advertise every day trying to increaes their market share.

Whoever said there was a doctor shortage is an outright liar.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

Disgusting. The fact that you would bring an X-Box to the office thinking you would have time to play it is the reason that you do actually have time to play....Have fun. In case you havent noticed, patients dont just line up outside your door. Maybe you should spend less time playing XBox and more time figuring out how to market and grow your practice. While I agree there is an oversupply of ODs, and that the responsibility for this lies squarely on the shoulders of the optometry schools, you dont seem to be going beyond the call to build your business.

Posner

LOL I was just joking about the X-box (I wouldn't let a little kid discover it by accident and break it), but the rest of the post I wasn't. I do watch DVD's a lot in my down time though (CSI's are good) hence the tv. Other employees, umm there are none. I virtually take every insurance out there, I built an internet web site, yellow pages adversting, gone to MD's giving out business cards for diabetics and hypertension patients. There just gets to a point where there are too many of us.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

I mean, you could at least bring a Nintendo Wii! 🙂

Yeah I have all four: Xbox 360 elite, Wii , PS3, and PSP

 

[blazenmadison]

Yeah I have all four: Xbox 360 elite, Wii , PS3, and PSP

are you writing those as business expenses?

What happened to living frugally?

I understand you graduated a year ago and want to build a private practice, but I think you have become trapped in the corporate world already.
You will not be able to spend $2000 on game systems in your first few years in pp.

Whatever happend to

I'm looking forward to opening, but you know life happens. I'm getting married in June to a wonderful woman, and her parents couldn't afford it so I'm footing the bill. My mom is battling cancer, so I'm trying to help her out as much as can. I work seven days a week between three different offices, and dream of my own practice. Still, own the same clinical clothes that I went to school with and drive a 97 mustang with a 180k miles. I save as much as I can toward opening cold, but to be honest I'm doing commercial to save faster.

I'm sorry if others feel like I'm a "cancer" to our professional image, but I would rather support my mother in her situation since she can't work, and SAVE to open cold.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

are you writing those as business expenses?

What happened to living frugally?

I understand you graduated a year ago and want to build a private practice, but I think you have become trapped in the corporate world already.
You will not be able to spend $2000 on game systems in your first few years in pp.

Whatever happend to

I had a PSP ($150) and XBOX 360 (just upgraded to elite) before I graduated. The Wii was a present from a friend for a birthday. The PS3 I didn't pay for, it was a wedding gift.

I am still supporting my mother, she had eposides of epilepsy. Before the epilepsy she had a fall which created a subdural hematoma, which forced a craniotomy procedure to reduce swelling. A day after the procedure she went unconscious and we were forced to put her on a respirator and NG feeding tube. She woke up on June 12th 2007, four days before our wedding, and progressively improved in condition. She's finally home now, and about to start 35 days of radiation, and one more round of chemo. I haven't really posted on here for about two months.

Technically a television can be counted as a business expense if you are using it solely for the purposes of your business. Such as running informercials about various eye related conditions in the waiting room, or just for patients to watch. Also you can claim the television if it is used for the sole purpose of doing Contact lens education with (watching a video about insertion/removal)

 

[posner]

You know that when it becomes necessary to start "marketing" your practice that your field is absolutely and totally oversupplied.

Notice that chiropractors have to do the same thing. They have to go to flea markets and so free spinal screenings to drum up business.

Medicine is getting to be like this more and more. Consider now that LASIK ads are all over the TV and radio. Hospitals advertise every day trying to increaes their market share.

Whoever said there was a doctor shortage is an outright liar.

What is wrong with drumming up business and increasing market share? Name a successful venture that doesnt attempt to do this. Hoping for patients to come through your front door is not a plan. In my own experience, I have built a very solid practice over the last 7 years both marketing internally and outside the office(I also had a very well established successful practice to buy into which was an immense help). I am finally at the point, where I can back off a bit. My loyal customer base does alot of the marketing for me with referrals. Furthermore, we are lucky enough to continue to see a large number of new patients.


It sounds as if you would prefer there to be a shortage of Doctors so that you could have ample access to patients without doing much. The bottom line is that most patients have at least some choice where they spend their health care dollars. Why should they come to you? Just because YOU think they should? I have said it before, you are not providing any services that cant be provided by the guy down the street....so you better make the effort to ensure the patient's experience at your office is memorable.

Posner

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

What is wrong with drumming up business and increasing market share? Name a successful venture that doesnt attempt to do this. Hoping for patients to come through your front door is not a plan. In my own experience, I have built a very solid practice over the last 7 years both marketing internally and outside the office(I also had a very well established successful practice to buy into which was an immense help). I am finally at the point, where I can back off a bit. My loyal customer base does alot of the marketing for me with referrals. Furthermore, we are lucky enough to continue to see a large number of new patients.


It sounds as if you would prefer there to be a shortage of Doctors so that you could have ample access to patients without doing much. The bottom line is that most patients have at least some choice where they spend their health care dollars. Why should they come to you? Just because YOU think they should? I have said it before, you are not providing any services that cant be provided by the guy down the street....so you better make the effort to ensure the patient's experience at your office is memorable.

Posner

I'm not saying you're not a great doctor or that I wouldn't come see you. You had a nice patient base already built up for you to walk into, which makes it nice. Being out just one year, word of mouth does help but it all still takes time to build that base. But if you were ready to back off a bit, wouldn't you're already "built up" patient base be enough not to have to accept any new patients? At first you sound like you want to be full steam ahead, but are you just trying to maintain status quo levels?

Just wanting some clarification.

 

[KHE]

What is wrong with drumming up business and increasing market share? Name a successful venture that doesnt attempt to do this. Hoping for patients to come through your front door is not a plan. In my own experience, I have built a very solid practice over the last 7 years both marketing internally and outside the office(I also had a very well established successful practice to buy into which was an immense help). I am finally at the point, where I can back off a bit. My loyal customer base does alot of the marketing for me with referrals. Furthermore, we are lucky enough to continue to see a large number of new patients.


It sounds as if you would prefer there to be a shortage of Doctors so that you could have ample access to patients without doing much. The bottom line is that most patients have at least some choice where they spend their health care dollars. Why should they come to you? Just because YOU think they should? I have said it before, you are not providing any services that cant be provided by the guy down the street....so you better make the effort to ensure the patient's experience at your office is memorable.

Posner

My experience has been that external marketing almost never works....

Advertising doesn't work...you might get a short term bump here and there but it's no long term solution

Glad handing other doctors doesn't work....you might get a referral here or there but ODs are notorious for not referring to each other and PCPs or internists are also less likely to refer for optometric examinations.

Glad handing school psychologists, teachers or giving "talks" to civic groups doesn't work. They're grateful for your time and expertise and glad you came in to talk, but they dont phone up and make appointments en masse.

The only thing that works, IMHO is referrals from happy patients. It's the only way to build a practice. However, the problem with it is that it is also the slowest. If someone goes to an Italian restaurant and tells me they had a great meal, I might say "Hey! I'll try it out this weekend."

But if someone says they saw a wonderful eye doctor....very few people are likely to rush over. THey may say to themselves "Ok, the next time I need an exam I'll call that doctor" but that may be 6 months, a year, or even two years from now.

That's why its a marathon and not a sprint.

 

[cpw]

I used to watch TV shows on Netflix between patients when I first started. Now, I no longer have time. But, when the practice is new.. there's only so many times you can clean the contact lens room.

 

[posner]

I'm not saying you're not a great doctor or that I wouldn't come see you. You had a nice patient base already built up for you to walk into, which makes it nice. Being out just one year, word of mouth does help but it all still takes time to build that base. But if you were ready to back off a bit, wouldn't you're already "built up" patient base be enough not to have to accept any new patients? At first you sound like you want to be full steam ahead, but are you just trying to maintain status quo levels?

Just wanting some clarification.

My post had nothing to do with how great a doctor I may or may not be. As I mentioned, the practice I bought into had a very well established patient base, but that didnt mean that everyone lined up to see me because I was the new guy in office. I had a hand in my local society, service clubs, and numerous local events, etc etc. to meet people and network. I agree the best way to build a successful practice is by happy patient referrals, but it is slow. I do think external marketing is effective depending on your area, but not nearly as effective.

When I referred to back off a bit, I meant that I no longer participate as heavily in service clubs, etc any more. I take Tuesday mornings off and I am done fridays by 2:00. I mark myself out when I want to get away, and I have a partner and 2 associates to keep the offices running. As far as my schedule goes, I am nearly a month out in either office for an appointment, and my slowest associate is more than 2 weeks out. Emergencies are an exception, they can be worked in. My staff has a cancellation list they call from when patients no show or cancel to get patients into the office that would like sooner appointments. I suppose I could not take new patients, but I am not that brave. I grew my practice one patient at a time, and patients are valuable, so if they want to wait I will see them. Also, I dont bring back normal patients every year. Young +0.50 patients, come back 2-3 years. I like to keep my chair full of patients that actually have problems. I hope this provides some of the clarification you were in search of.

You seem to be sarcastic in your posts. I could care less if you listen to what I have to say. If you are happy playing XBOX, go right ahead. If you would like to try and take something away from my experiences or ask questions I am happy to offer up what I can
Posner

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

You seem to be sarcastic in your posts. I could care less if you listen to what I have to say. If you are happy playing XBOX, go right ahead. If you would like to try and take something away from my experiences or ask questions I am happy to offer up what I can
Posner

I don't believe I could ever recommend a two or three year visit between appointments for a patient. There is low liklihood that a patient might have developed a nasty melanoma or start of an RD, but is a $10 exam copay worth risking that (almost 90% of people I see are insurance)?

 

[bournehall]

Posner,
Just curious. Are you in private practice or a corporate setting with a partner and associates?

My post had nothing to do with how great a doctor I may or may not be. As I mentioned, the practice I bought into had a very well established patient base, but that didnt mean that everyone lined up to see me because I was the new guy in office. I had a hand in my local society, service clubs, and numerous local events, etc etc. to meet people and network. I agree the best way to build a successful practice is by happy patient referrals, but it is slow. I do think external marketing is effective depending on your area, but not nearly as effective.

When I referred to back off a bit, I meant that I no longer participate as heavily in service clubs, etc any more. I take Tuesday mornings off and I am done fridays by 2:00. I mark myself out when I want to get away, and I have a partner and 2 associates to keep the offices running. As far as my schedule goes, I am nearly a month out in either office for an appointment, and my slowest associate is more than 2 weeks out. Emergencies are an exception, they can be worked in. My staff has a cancellation list they call from when patients no show or cancel to get patients into the office that would like sooner appointments. I suppose I could not take new patients, but I am not that brave. I grew my practice one patient at a time, and patients are valuable, so if they want to wait I will see them. Also, I dont bring back normal patients every year. Young +0.50 patients, come back 2-3 years. I like to keep my chair full of patients that actually have problems. I hope this provides some of the clarification you were in search of.

You seem to be sarcastic in your posts. I could care less if you listen to what I have to say. If you are happy playing XBOX, go right ahead. If you would like to try and take something away from my experiences or ask questions I am happy to offer up what I can
Posner

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You know that when it becomes necessary to start "marketing" your practice that your field is absolutely and totally oversupplied.

Notice that chiropractors have to do the same thing. They have to go to flea markets and so free spinal screenings to drum up business.

Medicine is getting to be like this more and more. Consider now that LASIK ads are all over the TV and radio. Hospitals advertise every day trying to increaes their market share.

Whoever said there was a doctor shortage is an outright liar.

I'm not sure there's a shortage, but we sure as heck don't have too many of most MDs. In my area, its about 3-5 weeks to get into see ophtho, psych, derm, or allergy. I'd say there's a slight shortage, probably not worth doing anything about, but still possibly there.

 

[posner]

Posner,
Just curious. Are you in private practice or a corporate setting with a partner and associates?

Private multi office practice.

 

[posner]

You seem to be sarcastic in your posts. I could care less if you listen to what I have to say. If you are happy playing XBOX, go right ahead. If you would like to try and take something away from my experiences or ask questions I am happy to offer up what I can
Posner

I don't believe I could ever recommend a two or three year visit between appointments for a patient. There is low liklihood that a patient might have developed a nasty melanoma or start of an RD, but is a $10 exam copay worth risking that (almost 90% of people I see are insurance)?

I am not going to pass judgement on your clinical decision making. In my experience which includes an ocular disease residency and 7 years of private practice, I have seen 3 melanomas(only one in private practice). I have not seen a 14 year old +0.50 patient develop the start of an RD. I am not saying this couldnt happen, I just havent seen it. I try my best to educate patients on signs symptoms of serious eye problems and make them aware of the fact that we are on call 24hrs a day should they arise. I take a different approach with older patients and adults. I just prefer not to fill my chair with patients that dont need my services.

Posner

 

[bournehall]

Good sound advice on developing a successful private practice. Would recommend those starting out who are interested in private practice follow your examples.

My post had nothing to do with how great a doctor I may or may not be. As I mentioned, the practice I bought into had a very well established patient base, but that didnt mean that everyone lined up to see me because I was the new guy in office. I had a hand in my local society, service clubs, and numerous local events, etc etc. to meet people and network. I agree the best way to build a successful practice is by happy patient referrals, but it is slow. I do think external marketing is effective depending on your area, but not nearly as effective.

When I referred to back off a bit, I meant that I no longer participate as heavily in service clubs, etc any more. I take Tuesday mornings off and I am done fridays by 2:00. I mark myself out when I want to get away, and I have a partner and 2 associates to keep the offices running. As far as my schedule goes, I am nearly a month out in either office for an appointment, and my slowest associate is more than 2 weeks out. Emergencies are an exception, they can be worked in. My staff has a cancellation list they call from when patients no show or cancel to get patients into the office that would like sooner appointments. I suppose I could not take new patients, but I am not that brave. I grew my practice one patient at a time, and patients are valuable, so if they want to wait I will see them. Also, I dont bring back normal patients every year. Young +0.50 patients, come back 2-3 years. I like to keep my chair full of patients that actually have problems. I hope this provides some of the clarification you were in search of.

You seem to be sarcastic in your posts. I could care less if you listen to what I have to say. If you are happy playing XBOX, go right ahead. If you would like to try and take something away from my experiences or ask questions I am happy to offer up what I can
Posner

 

[still_confused]

I fill in at a Walmart on Sundays for 5.5 hours and usually make over a $1,000 because people don't like taking off work (offering something different, and taking mondays off).

the smart move would be to do that full time, maybe then you can be busy enough and spend less time whining or more time playing the xbox

 

[bournehall]

I am available for this kind of gig. Need any help? Let me know.

I fill in at a Walmart on Sundays for 5.5 hours and usually make over a $1,000 because people don't like taking off work (offering something different, and taking mondays off).

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

I am available for this kind of gig. Need any help? Let me know.

There is no full time doctor there, so i get all the appointments. Maximized profit/hour that I'm there.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

the smart move would be to do that full time, maybe then you can be busy enough and spend less time whining or more time playing the xbox

Lemme know how you feel when you graduate with those loans around 7 to 8% and the saturation will be even more evident. I really do love Optometry, but its hard to stay busy everyday of the week. I've recently made a verbal agreement with 1-800 for referrals for patients. Even in private practice I'll do this, the profit off contacts is minimal. Charging more in professional fees than the CL cost to profit margin is the way to go.

 

[still_confused]

Lemme know how you feel when you graduate with those loans around 7 to 8% and the saturation will be even more evident.

ill be too busy with the xbox

 

[posner]

ill be too busy with the xbox

Try to find a well established practice that actually has room for an associate. Get everything you can in writing, pay your dues while you establish your practice, and buy in. You must be absolutely sure there is an exit strategy in writing for the senior doctor so that there is room for you to grow, if not move on. I am not saying these practices are easy to find or even necessarily in the exact geographic area you have always dreamed of practicing, but they do exist. Most of my friends are in succesful multi-doctor practices.

There are currently two new grads(within the last 3 years) that have become associates in successful practices somewhat near by. One bought in last January and the other starts her buy-in in September. Both of these new grads have all the student loans we all talk about, but have found a way to get into successful private practices(in California no less!). Good luck.

Posner