Longest and shortest specialties

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

dnb127

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
I was curious what the longest specialties are (time for medical school, residency, fellowship,etc..) and which takes the least amount of years to begin the career. I'm not very knowledgeable of this subject but I hope to get some unbiased answers. Thanks🙂

Members don't see this ad.
 
I was curious what the longest specialties are (time for medical school, residency, fellowship,etc..) and which takes the least amount of years to begin the career. I'm not very knowledgeable of this subject but I hope to get some unbiased answers. Thanks🙂

Family medicine/Psych/ER (sometimes)- shortest
Internal medicine- can range from short to long
Surgical sub specialties- longest.
 
could you give me detailed description on amount of years for each?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
could you give me detailed description on amount of years for each?

Family med-3 (maybe a few still with 2?) Psych 3-4? ER 3-4 all without fellowships (they are available, if desired but many go straight through).
IM 3-4 up to ~6 with fellowship
Surgical Subspecialties 6-7 without fellowship

These are to the best of my knowledge. Add four to five years for medical school.
 
neurosurgery: 7 years

i forget which surgical sub specialty but it had to deal with pediatrics: 12 years (total)
 
I was curious what the longest specialties are (time for medical school, residency, fellowship,etc..) and which takes the least amount of years to begin the career. I'm not very knowledgeable of this subject but I hope to get some unbiased answers. Thanks🙂
Generally speaking (I'm not even in medical school yet) the more specialized the more time training. Someone in Family Medicine will be 3 years and neurosurg = 7 years.

Here's a list from American College of Surgeons
http://www.facs.org/medicalstudents/answer2.html
 
Family med-3 (maybe a few still with 2?) Psych 3-4? ER 3-4 all without fellowships (they are available, if desired but many go straight through).
IM 3-4 up to ~6 with fellowship
Surgical Subspecialties 6-7 without fellowship

These are to the best of my knowledge. Add four to five years for medical school.

What is it specifically that a family medicine doctor does?
 
Generally speaking (I'm not even in medical school yet) the more specialized the more time training. Someone in Family Medicine will be 3 years and neurosurg = 7 years.

Here's a list from American College of Surgeons
http://www.facs.org/medicalstudents/answer2.html

What is it specifically that general surgeons do. They are the E.R qualified ones. Correct? Can one have a career as general surgon or do they have to specialize?
 
What is it specifically that general surgeons do. They are the E.R qualified ones. Correct? Can one have a career as general surgon or do they have to specialize?

Are you in college, or are you still in high school or earlier? If so, there is a forum here for younger people interested in medical school. To answer your question, in the old days surgeons did run the ER, but not there is an emergency medicine residency. Yes general surgeons can specialize in things like cardiothoracic, vascular, etc.

http://www.facs.org/medicalstudents/answer6.html
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Are you in college, or are you still in high school or earlier? If so, there is a forum here for younger people interested in medical school. To answer your question, in the old days surgeons did run the ER, but not there is an emergency medicine residency. Yes general surgeons can specialize in things like cardiothoracic, vascular, etc.

I don't have much college but Ive been graduated from high school since 2009. I don't know much about this stuff though.
 
I was curious what the longest specialties are (time for medical school, residency, fellowship,etc..) and which takes the least amount of years to begin the career. I'm not very knowledgeable of this subject but I hope to get some unbiased answers. Thanks🙂

Actually, you begin your career in residency....you're just not getting full salary because you're not trained and certified for independent practice.
 
I don't have much college but Ive been graduated from high school since 2009. I don't know much about this stuff though.

Why is the middle pokeball in your avatar so sad while the other two are happy?
 
I don't have much college but Ive been graduated from high school since 2009. I don't know much about this stuff though.

Okay, I was just checking. Feel free to ask questions, but you might find resources like Google, Wikipedia, and Youtube to be very informative as well.

Here's some things to start you off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNaAlx6Ajd0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lxu9vrX7B8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmbZjx3mqV4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_medicine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_medicine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_surgery
 
I was curious what the longest specialties are (time for medical school, residency, fellowship,etc..) and which takes the least amount of years to begin the career. I'm not very knowledgeable of this subject but I hope to get some unbiased answers. Thanks🙂

OB sub-specialties (REI, gynonc, etc) are 7 years (4+3)
 
No pokeball. Germany, Poland, Russia

Oh, okay.... Why is Poland sad while Germany and Russia are happy? Is this a World War II reference?
 
here in canada, family medicine is 2 years with an option to get a certificate for ER with doing an extra year. you can get a job in almost any place (including academic centres) with that.
 
I think peds CT surgeons easily take the cake for longest average training time:

7 years GS (2 yrs research), 3 years CT fellowship, 1 year congenital fellowship = 11 years

I guess you could shave 4 years off that by going to an integrated CT program, but still, if we are talking about "time to becoming an attending" I think peds CT easily wins. The job market is notorious.
 
actually the shortest residency is preventative medicine at 2 years.
I think most preventative medicine programs require a separate internship before you start, making the total training time as long as IM/FP/peds/etc.
 
Sigh unfortunately many doctors think the length of training corresponds with the length of their....
 
Sigh unfortunately many doctors think the length of training corresponds with the length of their....

i-see-what-you-did-there-and-i-like-it-thumb.jpg
 
I think peds CT surgeons easily take the cake for longest average training time:

7 years GS (2 yrs research), 3 years CT fellowship, 1 year congenital fellowship = 11 years

I guess you could shave 4 years off that by going to an integrated CT program, but still, if we are talking about "time to becoming an attending" I think peds CT easily wins. The job market is notorious.
Let me just clarify that CT fellowships arent that competitive (a decent number actually go unfilled every year), and therefore most people applying out of GS will not need the two research years in order to match. Also I think it is changing but im pretty sure that there are still a good number of two years CT fellowships. So that 11 becomes 8.

Ironically a doctorate-trained pediatric cardiothoracic nurse practitioner could do an equally good job with ~7-8 years of training.

Lol no offense to NPs at all but since when do they have operating privileges? If they are in the operating room they are assisting the fellow or the attending. And i highly doubt that you only need 3 years of of post bachelor training to be assisting on pediatric cardiothoracic surgery. (Assuming you were counting 7-8 years out of high school as you did with the CT surgeon)
 
Wth... 4 years UG + 4 years medical school + 7 years GS + 3 years CT + 1 year fellowship = 19 years! That's a long time. Ironically a doctorate-trained pediatric cardiothoracic nurse practitioner could do an equally good job with ~7-8 years of training.
NP? :laugh:

How about here in Canada where some neurosurgeons do...

4 years undergrad + 1 year cause you didnt get in on 1st attempt
4 years med school
6 years neurosurgery
4 year phd (this is done during the residency, after year 3 I believe)
2 year pediatric fellowship

21 years to become a pediatric neurosurgeon. And here in childrens hospitals... a good number have PhDs.

Due to high school being 5 years prior to 2004 here, these current practicing pediatric neurosurgeons would not have been an attending until 40 years old. damn.
 
Just curious, are Canadians that much smarter, are their classes that much harder, or is there a huge shortage of medical school spots? How is it their standards are so outrageously high and they (to my knowledge) aren't facing a physican shortage. If U.S. medical schools had a 3.7 cutoff, oops there goes all of the DO schools and most of the lower MD schools including all the HBCs.

Well for one thing, at my university all class averages in science/math courses for mid terms are in the low 50s (sometimes 30s..40s...60s) - just an example. I've heard of a couple people whose marks extremely dropped after coming from the US to Canada.

We have a physician shortage in primary care fields, and a great job market for a few specialties. surgical specialties/other specialies (ex. cards, gi, anything with procedures) ... you better have an incredibly good resume and have lots of luck or you'll be doing fellowships until a job opens somewhere.

Our standards our so high due to the high level of competition. At the university of toronto medical school, the average accepted person with an undergrad degree last year had a GPA of 3.94!! And that's the AVERAGE. The overall average was 3.90 (but this includes those with masters degrees). A 3.7 wont get you far except at maybe 3 schools across the country, even then... you need a veryy strong mcat + everything else to be near perfect.
 
Doctorate-trained nurses have training that is different than, but equivalent to, physicians. They will soon be able to specialize in all areas of medicine and surgery.

Basically you can get an ADN in 2 years. ADN to MSN bridge program in 3 years. DNP degree (while working) is 2 years so that's 7 years total, granted some will take 8. A 2-year online residency for pediatric CT might take maybe 2 years so that would be 9 years total. Same quality of work as a physician, with the same training that takes less time. A good way to cut health care costs and provide better health care to all.
you should watch mystery diagnosis on youtube. lol @ thinking an NP would have the tiniest clue at what's wrong with a mysterious case.

I would never trust an NP/PA with anything more than prescribing the very basic meds (ex. sinus infection-antibiotic), allergy meds, etc. And this is because I have no allergies to medication. I would never let a family member be treated by someone who isnt a real doctor (and even then most family doctors are clueless about anything that's slightly complex).

But seriously, if you wanted to do medicine... why didnt you go to med school (to NPs) ??? Not good enough? Then dont do it!


EDIT: just saw your status is pre health... lol... that explains your post.
 
Last edited:
Our standards our so high due to the high level of competition. At the university of toronto medical school, the average accepted person with an undergrad degree last year had a GPA of 3.94!! And that's the AVERAGE. The overall average was 3.90 (but this includes those with masters degrees). A 3.7 wont get you far except at maybe 3 schools across the country, even then... you need a veryy strong mcat + everything else to be near perfect.

To be fair though, the entrance average for UofT is calculated with GPAs after the mark drop policy (UofT lets you drop your three lowest marks when calculating your GPA as long as you have taken a full course load...it's actually a bit more complicated than that but that's the gist).

Also, Canadian admissions are more numbers based in general and less holistic than US admission. I was actually far more impressed with the applicants at my US interviews for the most part; they had a lot more interesting life experiences/accomplishments while the Canadian system seems to just favour high scorers.
 
To be fair though, the entrance average for UofT is calculated with GPAs after the mark drop policy (UofT lets you drop your three lowest marks when calculating your GPA as long as you have taken a full course load...it's actually a bit more complicated than that but that's the gist).

Also, Canadian admissions are more numbers based in general and less holistic than US admission. I was actually far more impressed with the applicants at my US interviews for the most part; they had a lot more interesting life experiences/accomplishments while the Canadian system seems to just favour high scorers.
Many people dont qualify for the wGPA and even if it didnt exist, the average would probably be 3.90 (down from 3.94).
 
Wth... 4 years UG + 4 years medical school + 7 years GS + 3 years CT + 1 year fellowship = 19 years! That's a long time. Ironically a doctorate-trained pediatric cardiothoracic nurse practitioner could do an equally good job with ~7-8 years of training.

Doctorate-trained nurses have training that is different than, but equivalent to, physicians. They will soon be able to specialize in all areas of medicine and surgery.

Basically you can get an ADN in 2 years. ADN to MSN bridge program in 3 years. DNP degree (while working) is 2 years so that's 7 years total, granted some will take 8. A 2-year online residency for pediatric CT might take maybe 2 years so that would be 9 years total. Same quality of work as a physician, with the same training that takes less time. A good way to cut health care costs and provide better health care to all.
Controversial username...controversial posting...hmm...
 
Many people dont qualify for the wGPA and even if it didnt exist, the average would probably be 3.90 (down from 3.94).

True, but again as I said, Canadian schools are generally more marks based in their admissions, making the entrance averages so high. Take the Ontario schools for instance, by opening OMSAS in October and giving out interviews in January, the only way for them to process thousands and thousands of applications is to set very high cut offs and eliminate most of the applicant pool. The emphasis on high numbers though has made process much less holistic in my opinion.

PERSONAL OPINION WARNING: The OMSAS application requires no essays and instead an autobiographic sketch containing up to 48 activities with 100 characters to explain each activity. I know highly successful Canadian applicants who easily fill up each activity with menial activities like volunteered at x place for one day and took guitar lessons for a week and can get away with it because you only get 100 characters to explain each activity. The AMCAS application gives less spaces for activity and more characters to explain each activity and this favours people with sincere, long term activities instead of box checkers (which exist in both countries, I'm just saying the different applications systems favour one over the other and vice versa). Also, there is the personal statement on AMCAS that only UofT requires on OMSAS, no one else seems to care about your motivation to go into medicine, before the interview at least.

University of Toronto this year, however, seemed to radically change it's admission process. I would be very surprised if the entrance average is as high as last years. Apparently an extremely heavy emphasis was placed on the personal statement and they are very particular about what they are looking for. I have four friends with 35+ MCATs, 3.9+ GPAs that will probably be matriculating Hopkinsx2, Cornell, and Vanderbilt next year (and they all had very strong US and Canada application cycles this year, two of them have mdapplicant accounts and are on SDN so see if you can find them) who were rejected first round by UofT. Then, I have friends with much lower stats and UofT is their only interview, rejected from all other Canadian schools. Weird. I have no idea what is going on with them this year to be honest.

Anyway, I don't even know what I'm trying to say in the first place. I guess I just wanted to say that US and Canadian admissions are very different and can't really be compared because different types of applicants are favoured (I know, a good applicant is a good applicant and I made a huge generalization...but still...). That being said, I think it is just as competitive to get into a Canadian school as it is to get into a top 30-40 American school, it's just that Canadians don't really have the option of applying "more broadly" because there are so few schools, and a lot have strong regional/francophone bias, so that can make things a lot more difficult for Canadians...but that why we apply south of the border and are on SDN in the first place 😀

Note: I'm super sleep deprived so pardon any grammar mistakes or whatever
 
Top