Lonliness in Australia for intl. students?

[Alphonsine]

Do you guys ever feel homesick? How do you deal with it?

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[Off2Oz]

Do you guys ever feel homesick? How do you deal with it?

Yep. I just complain a lot about all the things here that "aren't as good" (ie. not like home).

Also, use skype a lot and fly home 1x per year.. it sorta helps.

Most of all - stay crazy busy and stressed about board exams. I can hardly think about much else.

That's all I got.

 

[Crumpet]

Alphonsine - I'll be going to UQ too. See you there next year . The homesickness thing will probably happen to everyone of us at some point. I guess the course will keep us very busy anyway so time will zip by.

Off2Oz, how is it like studying for the boards on top of the usual curriculum? Do you find yourself having much less free time? And are you able to squeeze in some work during term as well?

 

[Alphonsine]

Alphonsine - I'll be going to UQ too. See you there next year . The homesickness thing will probably happen to everyone of us at some point. I guess the course will keep us very busy anyway so time will zip by.

Off2Oz, how is it like studying for the boards on top of the usual curriculum? Do you find yourself having much less free time? And are you able to squeeze in some work during term as well?

Actually, I won't go to UQ until 2009. I applied kinda late in the rolling admit cycle so they said they'll give me the spot for 2009.

 

[Crumpet]

So you'll have a whole year to: earn some $$, be introspective, take time off to relax, travel, etc etc. Have fun till then!

Btw it's spelt loneliness, not lonliness

 

[Alphonsine]

So you'll have a whole year to: earn some $$, be introspective, take time off to relax, travel, etc etc. Have fun till then!

Btw it's spelt loneliness, not lonliness

I stand corrected...

I don't know what I'm going to do. Since the stress if kinda off (at least for now until I get to UQ), I'm going to do everything I can: earn some $$$ for my personal use in Brisbane, relax, watch TV, travel to the US & Europe & Asia.... Actually, I've never felt better. I'm finally having fun w/o stress for the 1st time since I can remember.

 

[Crumpet]

Same here, i had never felt more carefree till i got my acceptance to UQ and had my finances for the course sorted out. On a side note, we've got the same MCAT scores

 

[Off2Oz]

Alphonsine - I'll be going to UQ too. See you there next year . The homesickness thing will probably happen to everyone of us at some point. I guess the course will keep us very busy anyway so time will zip by.

Off2Oz, how is it like studying for the boards on top of the usual curriculum? Do you find yourself having much less free time? And are you able to squeeze in some work during term as well?

Free time? Sorry, it's just that I haven't considered that kind of time in a while now.. does sleep count?

It's tough putting everything into my head, but it still beats engineering hands down. (ie. I was an engineering-type once.. a looooong time ago)

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Get a girlfriend/boyfriend, be friendly with your mates in PBL. I never got homesick so far, and in fact I was jumping for joy that I was leaving the USA and going to the paradise that is the eastern coast of Australia.

I flew back to the US last year, and what a ****hole LAX was, but the one good thing was that I ran into Russell Crowe on a connecting flight from LAX to JFK. He's a lot shorter than I thought.

 

[santa_claus]

Yep. I just complain a lot about all the things here that "aren't as good" (ie. not like home).

Also, use skype a lot and fly home 1x per year.. it sorta helps.

Most of all - stay crazy busy and stressed about board exams. I can hardly think about much else.

That's all I got.

I don't recommend "staying stressed about board exams" for incoming internationals as a recipe for success. Denying yourself time off and shunning your classmates can -- and will -- culminate in a burnout sooner or later. Sure, board exams are important, but your goal must be to learn how to become a good doctor, not how to answer Multiple Choice questions correctly. You can do well on USMLE without being obsessed with it and isolating yourself from the rest of the world. Study hard but also:
1. Enjoy Australia-- it's so beautiful!
2. Get to know your classmates, and cherish new relationships.
3. Stay fit
4. Call you family often
5. Find a part-time job or a hobby, to stay sane.
6. Try to get a boy/girlfriend -- preferably not from school.
7. You won't have as much time for partying as before, but live it up now and then. These are the best years of your life!

Just my two cents.

 

[redshifteffect]

Funny, you guys are lucky, at least you got into medicine. I notice a lot of Canadians that I've met over the years get homesick and think certain parts of Canada are great - I can understand the sentiment, but remember if Canada is so great how come so many of us have to go half way around the world just to get into medicine? What about something simple like Teachers college, how many people have met Canadians even doing Teachers college in Oz because they can't get into it back home.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Australia and Canada are both great places to live, I guess people studying medicine in Oz are weighing different wants, they want to pursue a career in medicine but they are also separating themselves from family. I started Medicine at a fairly mature age, and by the time I started, I was living away from home for nearly a decade.

Australia according to the UN is the 3rd best place to live on Earth, only Iceland and Norway ranked higher, personally I would rate Australia 1 because of the weather factor. The other two countries have cold climates. Canada ranked number 4, and the US ranked 12(It fell four places and is the first time the US was removed from the top 10, it might fall some more considering the problems that are there).

One of the best ways to deal with homesickness is to stay positive, you can do this by keeping fit, making friends, and avoiding negative people.

 

[redshifteffect]

That's a very good point Joe,

I think the other thing people have to realise is that Australia is offering many of us an opportunity, sure they charge fees, but Canadian/American tuitions for medical schools are pretty outrageous too (even for locals). Also there is a job at the end of all of this - whereas in Canada the match rate through CaRMs is pretty horrible. So at the end of the day you have to respect Australia for all the opportunities it has.

 

[willcandude]

That's a very good point Joe,

I think the other thing people have to realise is that Australia is offering many of us an opportunity, sure they charge fees, but Canadian/American tuitions for medical schools are pretty outrageous too (even for locals). Also there is a job at the end of all of this - whereas in Canada the match rate through CaRMs is pretty horrible. So at the end of the day you have to respect Australia for all the opportunities it has.

well i'm trying to stay positive but it doesn't look too good for intl students starting med now in Oz. with the difficulty of getting internship spots for intl students in the near future, this means working/staying in Oz is pretty difficult/impossible

 

[redshifteffect]

Willcandude,

Can't say I blame you for your lack of optomisim, but when I started posting on this forum no one even considered staying in Oz, and I remember Kim only knew of one or two people in her class who persued that line. Regardless I still went on believing I could get a job - and maximised my chances of doing so.

In Australia marks are irrelevent as some of the students that got the best spots had failed subjects or even repeated years, and references (Australian ones) and doing research during summer seemed to be a lot more useful. If the competition gets tough, it's still a lot better than 5%-13% chance of a match with CaRMS (even for GPs).

If you're willing to put in an extra bit of effort, and that may mean not jumping on the first home bound flight after your summer holiday (or winter if you're heading home) begins, don't mind doing a bit of research, or undergo some extra rotations during holidays and make some connections your chances of getting a good internship are pretty high, even with extra competition. Internationals last year got jobs at Royal Brisbane, Gold Coast and even Box Hill in Melbourne. Hard work here is the key - but not the kind required to get a match in the US (ie American references; USMLE cramming; writing the MCCEE to get a J1 or taking the lottery for the H1B), or Canada (role the dice and hope for the best).

Returning to Canada is also not impossible, but I've given up on CaRMS as a way to do so. I've spoken to quite a few recruiters and most have told me that I can get into most provinces with simply two years in Oz (Internship + 1 year RMO) and not even completing my GP training here as long as I have the 5 compulsory rotations. This is good enough to be eligible to work as a GP in these provinces, and then write the relevant exams within 5 years. 2 years in these provinces and I can be back in Ontario if I choose to do so. 4 years here in Oz including internship and I have an Oz GP registration.
If you call the College of Physicians in Ontario you will even note that for specialists they can grant direct licenses and allow them to return to Ontario without any "Canadian experiences", this is done on a case by case basis but I know the system works because I've met a few Australian doctors who've done that (couldnt' handle the cold weather so they returned after a few years).

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I still think students who are in the health sciences fields are not going to meet with objections from the immigration authorities. I think medical students in NSW and Victoria might have issues, Melbourne and Sydney are the two magnet cities for immigrants. In Queensland, many hospitals are severely understaffed. The same goes for WA and SA.

Brisbane is a bit quiet compared to Sydney and Melbourne, but I am from California originally, and I like the smallness of the place.

I get a lot of comments from people as to why I went to Oz instead of staying in the States, hmmm?? Perfect beachs, smaller crowds, less expensive cost of living(people say Oz is expensive but I live in a house now instead of a one room apt), quality of life.

 

[Doctor]

Australia according to the UN is the 3rd best place to live on Earth, only Iceland and Norway ranked higher, personally I would rate Australia 1 because of the weather factor. The other two countries have cold climates. Canada ranked number 4, and the US ranked 12(It fell four places and is the first time the US was removed from the top 10, it might fall some more considering the problems that are there).

That "best places to live" is nothing more than the Human Development Index. The only thing keeping Iceland, Norway, Canada, and Australia above the United States in that ranking is that they have far smaller minority populations. If you look at the literacy rates, educational attainment, and life expectancies of the majority of the populace, you will find the U.S. to be at the top with those other countries.

That's a terrible and politically incorrect way to look at things, but for whatever reason, the U.S. has a larger minority populace that doesn't achieve equality by way of these measures in this or any other country. They don't reach equality in terms of life expectancy or literacy in Canada, Australia, Norway, Iceland, etc. but there are fewer of them there to skew the statistics.

One interesting statistic someone posted on SDN was the crime rates of the U.S., Canada, and European countries. Interestingly, the U.S. murder rate was the highest by far... but if you look at the murder rate among Caucasians and Asians (both as victims and perps) the murder rate in the U.S. was as low or lower than in Canada, France, Iceland, UK, etc.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

That "best places to live" is nothing more than the Human Development Index. The only thing keeping Iceland, Norway, Canada, and Australia above the United States in that ranking is that they have far smaller minority populations. If you look at the literacy rates, educational attainment, and life expectancies of the majority of the populace, you will find the U.S. to be at the top with those other countries.

That's a terrible and politically incorrect way to look at things, but for whatever reason, the U.S. has a larger minority populace that doesn't achieve equality by way of these measures in this or any other country. They don't reach equality in terms of life expectancy or literacy in Canada, Australia, Norway, Iceland, etc. but there are fewer of them there to skew the statistics.

One interesting statistic someone posted on SDN was the crime rates of the U.S., Canada, and European countries. Interestingly, the U.S. murder rate was the highest by far... but if you look at the murder rate among Caucasians and Asians (both as victims and perps) the murder rate in the U.S. was as low or lower than in Canada, France, Iceland, UK, etc.

Uh huh, whatever. I suggest looking up the name of analyst, Peter Schiff. He is one of the most high profile Dollar bears out there. The Dollar is going to continue its fall, and its going to affect the standard of living for Americans no matter what color they are, sorry to say. The continued fall in value of the Dollar means, that within a few years countries in the EU, Canada, Australia, and Japan will all have higher per capita incomes than the US, the average Australian within five years will have an income twice that of the average American, all due to the collapsing value of the greenback, even poor European countries like Spain will have a higher per capita GDP. Look at the ridiculous amount of US debt.

The last major dollar plummet happened between 1993 and 1995 but the dollar only lost about 20 percent of its value back then. Today the Dollar has lost 60 percent against the Euro and similar amounts against other major currencies. I have not seen a similar drop in the value of the US currency in the post World War 2 period, never.

 

[Doctor]

Uh huh, whatever. I suggest looking up the name of analyst, Peter Schiff. He is one of the most high profile Dollar bears out there. The Dollar is going to continue its fall, and its going to affect the standard of living for Americans no matter what color they are, sorry to say. The continued fall in value of the Dollar means, that within a few years countries in the EU, Canada, Australia, and Japan will all have higher per capita incomes than the US, the average Australian within five years will have an income twice that of the average American, all due to the collapsing value of the greenback, even poor European countries like Spain will have a higher per capita GDP. Look at the ridiculous amount of US debt.

The last major dollar plummet happened between 1993 and 1995 but the dollar only lost about 20 percent of its value back then. Today the Dollar has lost 60 percent against the Euro and similar amounts against other major currencies. I have not seen a similar drop in the value of the US currency in the post World War 2 period, never.

You know nothing about economics.

First off, the weak dollar is the only thing keeping the U.S. economy (and therefore, the world economy) from recession. Exports are booming, and that's the major reason why the U.S. economy is still growing and resisting the recession that would normally be expected by now.

Secondly, U.S. debt is not large at all right now. Instead of thinking about it in absolute terms, compare it to GDP. The national debt was 71% of GDP in the golden era (1955) but is only 49% of GDP today. Though I prefer Presidents who balance budgets, the debt is not even close to being a major worry economically. You read too much of the misinformed mass media, and not enough written by actual economists.

Third, the drawback to a falling dollar would normally be inflation. However, there is no sign of inflation in sight.. why? Because of Wal-Mart importing all those cheap goods coming from China. Goods have never been cheaper, so inflation is not a major worry. Just look at the Fed, about to drop rates yet again.

Fourth, purchasing power has nothing to do with the dollar and its exchange rates. You'll notice that Americans have 30% more purchasing power than Australians on average. A falling U.S. dollar still won't let Australia be able to equal the purchasing power of Americans.

I have never in my life seen something funnier than what you just said: that in 5 years, the average Aussie will make twice as much as the average American. There are many, many reasons as to why that could never come to pass, not the least of which is that if the American economy goes sour, China and the rest of Asia collapses, and the Australian economy dies a horrible death.

Love us or hate us, you are stuck with your economy being at the whim of the American economy for another 20-40 years. By mid-century, Australia will still be a slave to the global economy but China and India will be major factors in dictating how that fares.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Who exactly are you? Are you medical student or an economist? You have to be living in a fantasy land. What exactly does the US export? If the devaluation of the dollar has increased exports, why has the trade deficit still increased???? The Euro now is an increasing percentage of world currency reserves, in only five years it accounts for 30 percent of world reserves and the number is increasing. The US cannot continue to finance debt forever, and it depends upon the rest of the planet for this to happen. The Chinese are becoming concerned about the weak dollar so much that they started "diversifying".

The US economy has not been based on exports for several decades, consumer spending accounts for 70 percent of US economic activity. The US finances its spending when foreign countries invest in US Treasuries, they are becoming more reluctant to buy something that is rapidly losing value. And yes the Euro is something that many nations around the planet are looking as an alternative.

Most economists expect a recession in 2008 for the US, at the same time the rest of the world, the Euro Zone in particular is growing at a faster rate. I am sure you have seen the boat loads of European tourists going on shopping sprees in the US seeing it as a big "Wal Mart".

Major oil producers held a meeting about the dollar weakness and several major oil producing nations are going to sell oil for Euros not US Dollars.

Anyhow, I personally do not hold any of my wealth in dollars.

China and India might come into the forefront much faster than four decades from now.

BTW you are a racist *****.

 

[Doctor]

Who exactly are you? Are you medical student or an economist? You have to be living in a fantasy land. What exactly does the US export? If the devaluation of the dollar has increased exports, why has the trade deficit still increased???? The Euro now is an increasing percentage of world currency reserves, in only five years it accounts for 30 percent of world reserves and the number is increasing. The US cannot continue to finance debt forever, and it depends upon the rest of the planet for this to happen. The Chinese are becoming concerned about the weak dollar so much that they started "diversifying".

The US economy has not been based on exports for several decades, consumer spending accounts for 70 percent of US economic activity. The US finances its spending when foreign countries invest in US Treasuries, they are becoming more reluctant to buy something that is rapidly losing value. And yes the Euro is something that many nations around the planet are looking as an alternative.

Most economists expect a recession in 2008 for the US, at the same time the rest of the world, the Euro Zone in particular is growing at a faster rate. I am sure you have seen the boat loads of European tourists going on shopping sprees in the US seeing it as a big "Wal Mart".

Major oil producers held a meeting about the dollar weakness and several major oil producing nations are going to sell oil for Euros not US Dollars.

Anyhow, I personally do not hold any of my wealth in dollars.

China and India might come into the forefront much faster than four decades from now.

BTW you are a racist *****.

Coincidently, I am in transition from an economics career to being a med student.

Growth in exports accounted for 1.8 of the 3.9 percent growth in America last quarter. But don't take my word for it, you should read sources like Bloomberg instead of reading the mass media and quacks. It would bring you closer to some actual knowledge about econ. You're wrong about the trade deficit increasing. Notice the quote "net exports, after subtracting imports, accounted for 1 percent of the growth." Do you still think that the trade deficit increased?

And of course the U.S. economy can have a recession, and the Euro market can even be better off for a short time. But any major recession in the U.S. will cause a major recession in the rest of the industrialized world, as I said before. The economies of Australia and Europe can not thrive without a solid U.S. economy... that's just the way it's going to be for a long time. China and India won't have larger economies than the U.S. until at least the timeframe I specified. And even after that, the U.S. will always have a larger economy than the entire European Union, as the states have grown faster than Europe for about 50 years in a row, give or take.

 

[driedcaribou]

But any major recession in the U.S. will cause a major recession in the rest of the industrialized world, as I said before. The economies of Australia and Europe can not thrive without a solid U.S. economy... that's just the way it's going to be for a long time. China and India won't have larger economies than the U.S. until at least the timeframe I specified. And even after that, the U.S. will always have a larger economy than the entire European Union, as the states have grown faster than Europe for about 50 years in a row, give or take.

Excellent points.

It bugs me when people just cheer when the US does poorly just because they have someone like Bush in charge. There are good Americans and bad Americans.

The US economy heavily effects the Western world.

And if you don't like Student Doctor or many other luxuries afforded by the Western world's economy and society... then you're always welcome to immigrate out.

Please ignore Joe and don't let him discourage you from posting.

He tends to rely on personal attacks and emotional arguments to make his points.

 

[willcandude]

yah just think about the subprime mortgage crisis in the US... that has affected everywhere in the world. the recent interest rate cuts by US federal reservce, and their slower than anticipated economic growth all impacted currency trading - japanese yen, aud, NZ

 

[EuroPhysician]

The US will have a prosperous economy for a while but.... it won't be the dominant economic power for much longer. Asia is going to quickly grab an increasingly larger share of the world economy. As I said there will still be prosperity but the idea of absolute dominance is fading away quickly as newer economic engines develop around the world. For now it is the dominant economy and the subprime crisis is hurting many countries around the world.

As far as politics it looks like the next US President is going to be a Democrat as none of the Republicans have a chance of winning. This I think will be a good thing as a Democrat could improve the USA's international image. A continuation of the Bush doctrine would definitely ruin the US.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

"East" and "West" are becoming irrelevant terms, and material comforts found in the US and Europe will not always be exclusive the populations of those regions. Asians are beginning to embrace the material life, its just the beginning but by the middle of the century at the latest(realistically just after the first quarter of the century or in 20 years), the developing world we know will far surpass the developed world that exists today. Thank globalization.

The US is now the biggest debtor nation on the planet, and relies on borrowing money from other countries, China in particular to finance that debt. The Chinese know this and the days when the US could easily dictate the economic policies of other nations is now gone. In the period just after World War 2, the US was the world's creditor nation, its a reverse of roles.

Everyone worldwide is becoming bearish on the Greenback, and that is not a good sign for the future of US prosperity, because the Dollar is a world reserve currency its the basis for America's ability to finance debt and its prosperity. Much of the world works to get US Dollars but now there are alternatives to that.

 

[surferdude123]

what was titled "Lonlieness" has now become an economics debate.


interesting.....

 

[JoeNamaMD]

A few years ago I tried to buy something in Europe with US Dollars the clerk initially refused to take them citing that the Euro is more valuable, after I insisted he took the money but gave me an extremely bad exchange rate. This past summer I was in Europe and now they will refuse to take US Dollars, its either Pound Sterling or Euros. That being said the US Dollar is a currency that is losing its "exclusive" appeal to international investors, its not going to collapse outright as such a collapse would destroy the world economy, instead central banks are slowly weaning themselves away from greenbacks and into a basket of currencies, but the Euro is definitely poised to supplant the US Dollar as the currency of the Western world. So basically its an "orderly" devaluation but still a devaluation nonetheless. It really has little to do with politics and more to do with the fact that there are other major players in the global economy and the US is not as dominant as it was several decades ago.

 

[jon stewart]

dont know much about ecomonics, but do you economic wise poeple think that the US dollar will every come back to the rates when Clinton was around?

i remember back in the day $1 aus got around $.55 US? (in the mid/late 90's)

i have lived in Sydney for a decent amount of time and i am in the US now. It seems like Americans do love to spend and buy things they cannot afford. I see finance rates for cars left and right, pretty much anyone can buy a car here, you can be broke as hell. I don't know much about bank loans in Aus, but it seems that ANZ, commonwealth , st George, westpac etc, are all way more strict on who they give loans too.

It just seems here that credit cards and all these crazy finance options for every little thing exists, even for things like a TV.

Just wondering what you guys think, again i know very little about bank loans and economics. Psssh, if the US dollar is going to suck maybe i should move back to Aus.

 

[redshifteffect]

dont know much about ecomonics, but do you economic wise poeple think that the US dollar will every come back to the rates when Clinton was around?

i remember back in the day $1 aus got around $.55 US? (in the mid/late 90's)

i have lived in Sydney for a decent amount of time and i am in the US now. It seems like Americans do love to spend and buy things they cannot afford. I see finance rates for cars left and right, pretty much anyone can buy a car here, you can be broke as hell. I don't know much about bank loans in Aus, but it seems that ANZ, commonwealth , st George, westpac etc, are all way more strict on who they give loans too.

It just seems here that credit cards and all these crazy finance options for every little thing exists, even for things like a TV.

Just wondering what you guys think, again i know very little about bank loans and economics. Psssh, if the US dollar is going to suck maybe i should move back to Aus.

I think American's are more consumerists then Australians. If you look at things even like car financing; that wasn't even that popular until a few years ago, with a lot of people just preferring to buy their cars after saving for them.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

As long as China is willing to dump goods on the US, it won't matter too much if the US Dollar continues to fall, but if you are planning to work in the US and then take your money back home, that plan will not work. Another issue is if you like to travel overseas and work in the US, the exchange rates will make it far more expensive to go overseas, even the Canadian dollar now buys more Euros for example than the Greenback. Wealthy and affluent individuals worldwide are diversifying into different currencies and gold.

 

[willcandude]

As long as China is willing to dump goods on the US, it won't matter too much if the US Dollar continues to fall, but if you are planning to work in the US and then take your money back home, that plan will not work. Another issue is if you like to travel overseas and work in the US, the exchange rates will make it far more expensive to go overseas, even the Canadian dollar now buys more Euros for example than the Greenback. Wealthy and affluent individuals worldwide are diversifying into different currencies and gold.

for now maybe, but things might change in the near future... particuarly with the us election.... once US pulls troops out of iraq and focus more on economy, the usd will probably rebound

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Its highly doubtful that the Dollar will make a rebound after 08', at best it will stay at low levels or continue to fall. The Euro has become an attractive asset for central banks around the world, and it now accounts for one third of world currency reserves, which is remarkable for a five year old currency. The most likely scenario is the next US president is going to ready the country for a more multipolar world order, even one of the Republican candidates smeared Bush's foreign policy as unilateral(Mike Huckabee).