looking for advice: dealing with awful supervisor

[bmedclinic]

Hey All-
Its near the end of the semester, and I've had a supervisor who I greatly dislike. As the year has progressed, I've disliked her more and more. She's also the director of our training clinic.

Many people dislike her for a plethora of reasons, but it occurs to me that at some point in my continued training, I'll have someone just like her- someone who is never wrong in their perspective, treats patients from a different theoretical perspective than I do, and is constantly curt, if not outright rude to students and trainees.

So, I'm not looking for advice for this semester- or even this particular supervisor. I'm looking for how to avoid this in the future. I'd be glad to give specifics and explain how we got to where we are, but I doubt that's necessary.

By the way, I'm finishing my 3rd year in a Clinical PhD program. If she's my assigned supervisor for next year, I think I'm going to have a chat with the DCT. Until that happens though, I think I'm just going to grit my teeth and deal with it.

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[RileyG]

I wish I had advice for you. Instead I'm here to commiserate. I'm in a similar situation. PM me if you want to vent. Good luck!

 

[nicu4leo]

I think it would be helpful to hear some of the reasons as to why you do not care for her? Is it her interactional style? Her behavior? Her approach to the work?

In my experience I have had several supervisors that I did not care for... Each time it has been a challenge to find a way to address the issue or learn to not be as reactive to those facets of their personality/behavior that are bothersome to me. just my 2 cents.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'll have someone just like her- someone who is never wrong in their perspective, treats patients from a different theoretical perspective than I do, and is constantly curt, if not outright rude to students and trainees.

It definitely sounds like some "style" and communication issues. Most people will run into this kind of clash somewhere during their training. Have you brought up your issues (in a constructive way), and offered some solutions that better meet your needs? It is probably better to run into this now and figure out how to deal with it, than do it at one of your first positions, because you'd most likely just get fired if you didn't "mesh" with your superior.

I worked with someone who was my opposite in most ways, but we had to make it work. The irony was that clinically we got along fine, but we were vastly different with how we handled issues and communicated those issues. I was open, direct, and clear...and she was passive, indirect, and cryptic. I was not a fan of letting things fester, and she liked to "see how things go". In the end we found somewhat of a middle ground, but it was a good lesson in how to make two very different styles co-exist.

One of the things I found really helpful was when a supervisor asked ME about what supervision style I preferred. I have had supervisors do that in the past, but it was usually just an introduction to how they handled supervision. I'm not sure where you are in your training, but if you haven't read up on the variety of supervision styles out there, I'd strongly suggest buying a text on the subject. I can provide a couple of recommendations if you aren't sure of a good text to read.

 

[phillydave]

I've been in the same boat too. Might it be possible to get help from another higher-up? I often sought help from other higher-ups when I felt neglected (*tear).

 

[PsychMode]

I'm not sure where you are in your training, but if you haven't read up on the variety of supervision styles out there, I'd strongly suggest buying a text on the subject. I can provide a couple of recommendations if you aren't sure of a good text to read.

I have been in this situation myself, and I am interested in recommendations for good reading on the issue.

 

[PsyDWannabe]

Hey All-
Its near the end of the semester, and I've had a supervisor who I greatly dislike. As the year has progressed, I've disliked her more and more. She's also the director of our training clinic.

Many people dislike her for a plethora of reasons, but it occurs to me that at some point in my continued training, I'll have someone just like her- someone who is never wrong in their perspective, treats patients from a different theoretical perspective than I do, and is constantly curt, if not outright rude to students and trainees.

So, I'm not looking for advice for this semester- or even this particular supervisor. I'm looking for how to avoid this in the future. I'd be glad to give specifics and explain how we got to where we are, but I doubt that's necessary.

By the way, I'm finishing my 3rd year in a Clinical PhD program. If she's my assigned supervisor for next year, I think I'm going to have a chat with the DCT. Until that happens though, I think I'm just going to grit my teeth and deal with it.

Whoa, tough. Sounds like an episode of The Office.....if only yours could have a comic resolution. Still, I highly recommend having a chat with the DCT. Not 'blabbing' but just giving her a gentle heads up that things are not as kosher as they may seem right now and that next year, some things might have to change.

 

[bmedclinic]

I think it would be helpful to hear some of the reasons as to why you do not care for her? Is it her interactional style? Her behavior? Her approach to the work?

In my experience I have had several supervisors that I did not care for... Each time it has been a challenge to find a way to address the issue or learn to not be as reactive to those facets of their personality/behavior that are bothersome to me. just my 2 cents.

Well all, I'm back.
I had supervison with her today, and she started with "so it looked like you left the clinic frustrated last week".
I agreed. We talked pretty openly about a lot of things, and I feel that much of what I needed to be said was heard.

HOWEVER,
I still have ZERO respect for her. My supervision time with her will hopefully end in the next few weeks, so I dont really care about her thoughts, hence moving on.

Per the DCT, I've already let her know several times that I'd like other supervisors next year. I was her GA last year, and we get along pretty well.

During supervision this morning, I explained that she's rather accusatory, and that I completely disagree with it. I also explained that its as if she's trying to use our supervison time to make that case that I'm incompetent, when in fact no one thinks that-- at all. She's used patients who have discontinued (correct me if I'm wrong, but some mental health patients do that) and other weak excuses to attempt to make me look incompetent and I called her on it. I said that last time we met it felt like our session was just an excuse for her to review my film, looking for how I screwed up.

She asks "what would make it better?"
I said that essentially, all I needed was her to cut her negativity out, and be a little less rude to me, and maybe, just maybe, say something supportive once. Just once. Its not as if everything I do in the session is completely wrong (By the way, other supervisors I have at a different location think I'm great, so clearly its not that I'm just horrible).
In fact, the only commonality in cases I've had that have discontinued is her. Wasnt a problem with other supervisors. Not a problem at other sites. Just with her. She fails to see the implications of this.

Per what she has done that irks me:
-She hovers over me when I'm writing case notes, points out spelling errors. (I'm a freaking 2x spelling bee champion, btw!)
-Dismisses my thoughts without considering them
-Asks students (not just me) personal questions, and says rude things about these things
-Tried to use my religion in a case to appease a client. I still find this offensive.
-Talk about clinical matters she knows nothing of. Her lack of assessment knowledge is astounding, yet, she tells me what assessment to use. WISC with a 19yo? Okay. Sure. Norms mean nothing.
- Ranted about my shirttail not being tucked in one day. I was wearing khakis and a longsleeve polo, it just wasnt long enough to be tucked in. Yet, she rants- and a few days later, an email that was 3 pages long- were to follow. Said email did everything but name what everyone did that was "inappropriate attire".
-In addition to this, in general she takes a very condescending tone towards students. Oftentimes her answers start out "Well, in my private practice..." No one cares about your private practice. You're the clinic director now (whether you should be or not) and might want to consider that. Training clinic does not equal your private practice.

-As a clinic director, I'm astounded by her incompetence. I'm a pretty tech saavy dude and when she took over in the fall, I found an awesome EMR that we could use. Nope. Dismissed it out of hand. Instead, 2 semesters later, we're still creating more and more forms and wasting GA's time, doing it. Cool. (PS- My program touts itself as being cutting edge; last I checked making more and more paper forms isnt exactly cutting edge, when everyone else is going electronic.)
Virtually every student jokes that she has OCPD. She literally freaked out when someone came into the clinic sick. Granted, they shouldnt have, but they did. She ordered (no lie) a a student to lysol literally everything in the clinic.

PS, though I dont like her, I must say I know others have larger issues with her. Those are just MY issues with her.

 

[SingingCow]

Well all, I'm back.
I had supervison with her today, and she started with "so it looked like you left the clinic frustrated last week".
I agreed. We talked pretty openly about a lot of things, and I feel that much of what I needed to be said was heard.

HOWEVER,
I still have ZERO respect for her. My supervision time with her will hopefully end in the next few weeks, so I dont really care about her thoughts, hence moving on.

Per the DCT, I've already let her know several times that I'd like other supervisors next year. I was her GA last year, and we get along pretty well.

During supervision this morning, I explained that she's rather accusatory, and that I completely disagree with it. I also explained that its as if she's trying to use our supervison time to make that case that I'm incompetent, when in fact no one thinks that-- at all. She's used patients who have discontinued (correct me if I'm wrong, but some mental health patients do that) and other weak excuses to attempt to make me look incompetent and I called her on it. I said that last time we met it felt like our session was just an excuse for her to review my film, looking for how I screwed up.

She asks "what would make it better?"
I said that essentially, all I needed was her to cut her negativity out, and be a little less rude to me, and maybe, just maybe, say something supportive once. Just once. Its not as if everything I do in the session is completely wrong (By the way, other supervisors I have at a different location think I'm great, so clearly its not that I'm just horrible).
In fact, the only commonality in cases I've had that have discontinued is her. Wasnt a problem with other supervisors. Not a problem at other sites. Just with her. She fails to see the implications of this.

Per what she has done that irks me:
-She hovers over me when I'm writing case notes, points out spelling errors. (I'm a freaking 2x spelling bee champion, btw!)
-Dismisses my thoughts without considering them
-Asks students (not just me) personal questions, and says rude things about these things
-Tried to use my religion in a case to appease a client. I still find this offensive.
-Talk about clinical matters she knows nothing of. Her lack of assessment knowledge is astounding, yet, she tells me what assessment to use. WISC with a 19yo? Okay. Sure. Norms mean nothing.
- Ranted about my shirttail not being tucked in one day. I was wearing khakis and a longsleeve polo, it just wasnt long enough to be tucked in. Yet, she rants- and a few days later, an email that was 3 pages long- were to follow. Said email did everything but name what everyone did that was "inappropriate attire".
-In addition to this, in general she takes a very condescending tone towards students. Oftentimes her answers start out "Well, in my private practice..." No one cares about your private practice. You're the clinic director now (whether you should be or not) and might want to consider that. Training clinic does not equal your private practice.

-As a clinic director, I'm astounded by her incompetence. I'm a pretty tech saavy dude and when she took over in the fall, I found an awesome EMR that we could use. Nope. Dismissed it out of hand. Instead, 2 semesters later, we're still creating more and more forms and wasting GA's time, doing it. Cool. (PS- My program touts itself as being cutting edge; last I checked making more and more paper forms isnt exactly cutting edge, when everyone else is going electronic.)
Virtually every student jokes that she has OCPD. She literally freaked out when someone came into the clinic sick. Granted, they shouldnt have, but they did. She ordered (no lie) a a student to lysol literally everything in the clinic.

PS, though I dont like her, I must say I know others have larger issues with her. Those are just MY issues with her.

I think I prefer diluted bleach. It works better than Lysol and it likely cheaper.

 

[bmedclinic]

as an example of inappropriate questions, I know she saw a recently married student at a furniture store. Both in the store and in the clinic, this student was asked how she could afford such things. She's asked me questions about my religion which I felt should have been off limits. By the way, my religion isnt anything abnormal-- she just doesnt get boundaries.

I try to be as evidence based with what therapy I'm using, and I admit I favor cognitive therapy. I *think* she's psychodynamically oriented. She's said she is okay with CBT, but I hear about her crapping on CBT and passing around recent articles (such as were in the american psychologist) purporting that Psychodynamic therapy should be considered evidence based.

Last week she told me I didnt "get" emotions or empathy. Were you to ask around, no one would even think about this. It just clearly isnt true. In fact, its so absurd that its just stupid.

 

[PsychApps2009]

Well all, I'm back.
I had supervison with her today, and she started with "so it looked like you left the clinic frustrated last week".
I agreed. We talked pretty openly about a lot of things, and I feel that much of what I needed to be said was heard.

That's a good thing; it's at least a step (and shows that she's not ignorant of the situation). I would say in the future, be willing to be the one to approach/confront first instead (earlier on as well).

My supervision time with her will hopefully end in the next few weeks, so I dont really care about her thoughts, hence moving on.

I understand the feeling, but part of me feels like you should care about her thoughts (i.e., not dismiss them, even if she dismisses yours). This is something to learn from as you won't always be able to avoid working with people you dislike.

Also, did she say that she'd be willing to work on the things you told her in the next coming weeks? If so, and you don't see any change, I would professionally and politely remind her of the conversation you had.

I also think it'd be a nice exercise to view the things she has done to irk you from her perspective. Disclaimer: I am not trying to justify her actions. This is just an example of something that keeps me from going crazy in similar situations:

- Hovering: She may see this as part of her supervision (as good of a speller as you are, there are spelling mistakes and room for improvement). As per the notes, could be that she feels this technique will put more pressure on students to write better notes.
- Assessments: She may also feel that this is part of her supervision responsibilities. Problem is, she may not have the knowledge to give adequate advice on the topic but may not be aware of it or willing to recognize that as one of her weaknesses.
- Dress Code: Is dress code important in your program? Are you supposed to wear shirts you can tuck in? It may be that, again, she sees this as part of her responsibilities to make sure that people are dressed correctly.
- Student Thoughts: As with the assessment issue, she may feel like she is 'supposed' to know more than you and should be training you (in a way, to think and interpret things as she does... esp. if she feels strongly against your clinical orientation).
- Personal Questions: She may see this as trying to establish a connection with students... maybe...
- Tone: She may not be self-aware when it comes to how she addresses people, or she may feel that she doesn't have to modulate her tone when addressing people 'below' her. As for references to her private practice - a lot of us do this (i.e., use anecdotal references in our discussions). While not ideal if overdone, it is worth seeing what you can take out of it. Some people may be interested in private practice scenarios; she may not realize that most of you aren't or that she simply talks about it too much (as opposed to empirical evidence in treatment).
- Tech. Suggestions: I see this as the same issue with assessments (and "student thoughts" category).

...when someone came into the clinic sick. Granted, they shouldnt have, but they did. She ordered (no lie) a a student to lysol literally everything in the clinic.

I find this last point as sort of a general example of everything above. What she may be criticizing or doing may not be entirely wrong (esp. in her mind), but how she is going about it is not ideal nor constructive.

However, have any of the students who "joke" about her having OCPD bothered to sit down with her directly and discuss with her how the way she goes about things may not be ideal for their supervision and academic needs? If they have had discussions with her, have they held her to any promises she makes to work on her style of interaction?

None of these scenarios is ideal - you have legitimate complaints. When people do things that seem so obviously unprofessional or rude to you, it's worth taking a moment to think of why, as it can help you formulate a game plan in dealing with it and will distance yourself from the behavior so one does not take it as personally in the future.

I may not have been any help at all - but those are my $0.02.

PS - When it comes to the personal questions... do y'all actually answer her? I feel it's important to establish boundaries with the people you work with and part of the way you do that is by (politely) not engaging in answering such questions or in conversations that bring them up. I know this isn't always possible though.

 

[PsychApps2009]

as an example of inappropriate questions...

PS - I think this is getting a little removed from advice seeking and a little bit more into ranting. Be careful because you are giving some very specific information about situations that if she or people who know her were to read would make this far less anonymous and professionally (potentially) inappropriate.

 

[bmedclinic]

PS - I think this is getting a little removed from advice seeking and a little bit more into ranting. Be careful because you are giving some very specific information about situations that if she or people who know her were to read would make this far less anonymous and professionally (potentially) inappropriate.

good point. I know that's an issue for me anyways, that I want to just share away.

 

[PsychApps2009]

good point. I know that's an issue for me anyways, that I want to just share away.

Oh no trust me, when I was reading it I thought 'how could you not share?'. I've been in similar situations here at work where I just had to go into an empty office with a friend, shut the door, and let it out. And in your case, it can be hard to get advice about what to do when people don't know what you're dealing with.

Granted... I didn't give great advice... because aside from "talking to her" (which I imagine is far easier said than done), I would be stumped if I were in your shoes.

I'm just always paranoid about the internet... .

 

[Metta]

This is an excellent discussion, and I'm really enjoying it. I'll be a first-year PsyD student in the fall, and the question of how to avoid or deal with especially difficult colleagues/supervisors/professors/etc. is one I'm interested in. Several people have addressed the issue of dealing with a difficult person, but I wonder about the other part of the original poster's comments, how to avoid getting entangled in such a situation in the first place? Anyone have any hints or ideas there?

And Therapist4Chnge, I'd also like to hear your recommendations for good books describing supervision styles, so please do post them!

 

[deleted176373]

LOL, believe me... some of this sounds all too familiar... I am in my 3rd year, and some of my supervision has left me a little disappointed.

Mark

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

"Fundamentals of Clinical Supervision" by Bernard & Goodyear. I am most familiar with the 3rd edition ($25 from the Amazon Marketplace), though they have a new 4th edition for $75 from Amazon. It offers a nice collection of what is out there.

"Becoming an Effective Supervisor: A Workbook for Counselors and Psychotherapists" by Campbell. $28 new. This text is a bit more broad than just psychology, which may or may not be what you are looking for, but I still found it useful.

There is a handy-dandy Amazon search box at the bottom of SDN....in case you want to look these up.

 

[BuckeyeAlum]

I'm not excusing her behavior at all, and I'm sorry you're stuck in a situation like this. However, is there anything at all you can learn from her? While she may be narrow-minded, she is most likely not downright stupid. Is there any feedback from her that you can use to make yourself a better clinician?

At least you will be a stronger person coming out of this experience. If everyone we dealt with was pleasant, considerate, and friendly, we would not learn as much (or appreciate the awesome people for how wonderful they really are)!

And if all else fails, sounds like this woman could use some sunshine... or a glass of wine... or maybe an SSRI. haha.

 

[bmedclinic]

I'm not excusing her behavior at all, and I'm sorry you're stuck in a situation like this. However, is there anything at all you can learn from her? While she may be narrow-minded, she is most likely not downright stupid. Is there any feedback from her that you can use to make yourself a better clinician?

At least you will be a stronger person coming out of this experience. If everyone we dealt with was pleasant, considerate, and friendly, we would not learn as much (or appreciate the awesome people for how wonderful they really are)!

And if all else fails, sounds like this woman could use some sunshine... or a glass of wine... or maybe an SSRI. haha.

yes, there is. In fact, on Monday when we had our supervision and I told her that I felt like our supervision sessions were a witch hunt and that she was constantly looking for things to blame me, she asked me just this question.

I told her (and this is totally true) that sometimes I can gain information from her. There are nuggets of insight in there, and that I've just been working really hard to wade past all her negativity and judgment on me to get those.

Surprisingly, she seemed appeased by this. I would think that though I was honest, she would have been upset by my answer.

She's not stupid at all. She's just old school, closed minded, and "my way or the highway". Though I dont know this, I'd be very surprised if many clinical psychologists took the stance of "my way or the highway" in therapy sessions.