Looking for some advice

[twocentnews]

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So, I've been reading through a lot of these post-bac/SMP posts, and I was hoping some of you could offer me some advice.

I just finished my third yr of undergrad. I have cGPA of 3.383 right now, and a sGPA of 3.15 (it's about 3.2 according to AACOMAS calculations). I haven't taken the MCAT yet, so I know this will probably make your advice hard to give. However, I did take one practice exam for MCAT and I got a 27.

Would it be wise for me to pursue a post bac or SMP? Or should I just continue to take some extra undergrad courses? I don't want to pursue the SMP and then do poorly and ruin my chances, but I also want to make sure I don't waste time as well as money doing one or the other and having it end up being useless.

I have volunteered 100+ hours in my hometown hospital, and about 40 or so hours at another hospital. Additionally, I've been shadowing a physician over the summer. I've also done Big Brother/Big Sister. Those are the related EC's (I've also had jobs, etc. that aren't clinical but rather, are other activities).

What do you think my best options are? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[peasant05]

I would start your decision with some GPA calculations. Depending on what you need to take next year to graduate, how many science classes will you be taking? So recalculate assuming you get As in all your BCPM classes next year (well, As in all classes next year), plus if you were to take 8 more 3-credit science classes on top of that (like doing a one-year undergraduate post-bac like Penn's Special Science).

If you calculate that, assuming As in all classes, you can at least get an idea of the BEST possible GPA you would be applying with after a one-year undergrad post bac. If that still doesn't give you a respectable GPA to apply with, you may have to consider doing the Master's level programs.

 

[twocentnews]

This next year, I only have one real science class to take - organic chem lab - and some other possible sciences (I'm not sure if Human Development: Infancy through Adolescence & Human Behavorial Ecology count as sciGPA), and other than that, I am mainly taking the gen eds to graduate and finish out my minor.

During my year off though, I am thinking about retaking organic chemistry I and II (that would bring my 3.2 up to 3.37 if I get A's in both of them), and maybe 2 or 3 more sci classes (maybe a microbio or something) to pull that up a little bit to even around 3.45 or so.

I know my cumulative will be good overall (about a 3.6?) when graduating next year, so should I just take the undergrad classes and find a research job/Americorps or something during the time instead of an SMP?

I feel like the SMPs are expensive, and although some of them have linkages, I don't know if it's worth it considering the "linkages" are not always guarantees and I don't want to spend $20,000 for a maybe when I can spend less for a maybe; also, what if the SMP actually HURTS my GPA?

 

[twocentnews]

....anyone else with an opinion?

I would really appreciate it. My pre-med advisor is no help.

 

[TyrKinase]

If I were in your shoes, I would first consider where I wanted to end up. I was in a worse position than you GPA-wise when I graduated and probably should have focused on getting accepted to an osteopathic medical school not because they're a 'fall back' but because the AACOMAS GPA calculations are much more forgiving.

If you're down with the DO path (which would be great), I would recommend taking a couple more new science classes and getting strong grades, and retaking some of the pre-reqs and killing them. It'll boost your GPA faster than taking all new classes for AMCAS and if you score in the neighborhood of a 27 on the MCAT, you'll be in a great spot at many osteopathic schools.

Things get trickier if you're 0% interested in attending a DO school. You could retake things, aim for a higher MCAT score than your practice test and cross your fingers, but chances are you'd still be on the low end of the spectrum. That's not to say you couldn't make it happen, but it'd be more of a stretch. An SMP might be a good idea if all you want is MD after your name, but it's a path that's expensive, time-consuming and offers no real guarantee that you'll end up attending an allopathic school on the other side.

 

[thechampion]

I think my gpa was similar to yours after my junior yr, and I had taken the MCAT and didn't do so well - a 29. My advice for you would be first study really hard for the MCAT and take it when you are scoring consistently on practice exams and you are content with those scores (in the mid 30s?). I have been told a killer MCAT can somewhat offset a below average gpa. Still, obviously try to improve your gpa during your senior yr. End your undergrad strong!

As far as post bac vs. SMP, I also debated b/w the two and eventually decided I am willing to take the risk with a more expensive SMP. I spoke with the med school admissions committees that rejected me and they all agreed that SMPs are the best way to prove to them that I can excel in med school. I also want to prove to myself that I can handle the rigorous med school curriculum. Ask me in a yr if my decision paid off.

 

[DrMidlife]

I feel like the SMPs are expensive, and although some of them have linkages, I don't know if it's worth it considering the "linkages" are not always guarantees and I don't want to spend $20,000 for a maybe when I can spend less for a maybe; also, what if the SMP actually HURTS my GPA?

Linkages are never guarantees. The price tag for an SMP is more like $50k. An SMP is grad work, so it doesn't touch your undergrad GPA.

If you can truly get your cumulative to 3.6, then it's hard to justify an SMP. Your science GPA will still be low, which is a concern. A 27 on a practice MCAT, before you've done any prep, is fantastic. I think in your shoes I'd put a lot of eggs in the MCAT basket and roll the dice.

Which means, from my perspective, that MCAT prep is critical. Don't cut corners. You have a high pressure year next year: you have to get terrific grades to get that 3.6, right? I don't think you should add MCAT prep on top of that. I'd prefer to see you wrap up undergrad, as strongly as possible, with a few tasty ECs on the side. Then after graduating, first priority is the MCAT, which you should plan on taking by April at the latest, in addition to an interesting part-time job that can get you an LOR and doesn't impact your MCAT prep. Apply June 2011. And have as much fun as you can afford during your app/gap year (travel!!!).

If you want things to happen faster, fine, double up, but just keep in mind that you don't have room to make mistakes. Plus you're only young once.

Best of luck to you.

 

[twocentnews]

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it.

I think what I am going to do is finish out my senior year and then take the next year to retake organic chemistry and take a couple more science classes. And then go for the application process for Fall 2011.

Can I do retakes at another university or does it have to be at my undergraduate university? I am thinking about doing the retake and extra courses as a non-degree student, so it wouldn't show up as an additon to the GPA on my transcript, but I assume when I put it into AACOMAS or AMCAS, it will be counted towards that GPA right? And they'll see it on the transcript?

Also, I took some gen eds in a comm college over a summer and so AACOMAS and AMCAS also add that into the GPA as well right, instead of how my undergrad transcript just shows it as a T at my college? I know we have to send all transcripts to the app process.

 

[swimchick]

When you fill out your AMCAS/AACOMAS app you'll have to list every college course you've taken, including any taken while you were in high school. Undergraduate-level coursework completed after you graduate from college will be noted as "postbaccalaurate undergraduate."

 

[peasant05]

Yeah, in AMCAS and AACOMAS all undergrad classes, regardless of where they are from, should get calculated into the same "undergrad" GPA.

In regards to whether you should retake at the same school, you definitely don't have to. However, you might want to have a good reason as to why you chose to retake at a different school. If you're moving and another school is closer/more convenient, that should be fine.

If not, however, then think about it carefully. The reason I say this: I graduated from a really good/difficult and well-known school. I stayed in the area after graduating. I could have done my couple retakes at easier schools nearby, but I was worried that an admissions committee would see that and think: oh, well was the C- in undergrad because the school was too difficult, or was it really for the personal reasons she claims? I wanted to prove that I could succeed at my original undergrad, so I retook the classes there. When asked in an interview why I stayed and took postbac classes at my undergrad, that's exactly what I said - that I wanted to show that the original bad grades and subsequent good ones were due only to a change in myself, not in any other factor.

But if there are not major differences in the difficulty of the schools, then maybe it won't matter. Maybe it doesn't matter at all either way, since we can't get in the minds of the adcoms 🙂, but my choice was the one I considered "safer".

 

[twocentnews]

peasant05 - thanks, I really appreciate your personal input. I am thinking about doing the retakes at the regional campus of my state school. I go to the main campus now, but I might just do the retakes at the campus in my hometown. I think they offer it (hopefully), and that'll cut down on living costs.

Also, I believe I miscalculated the sciGPA before. Calculus doesn't count in the science GPA right? So my science GPA is actually a 3.27, and assuming I do as well as I did last year in the upcoming 2 semesters, I am thinking I will graduate with a cumulative GPA of ~3.5 (according to the calculations right now). By retaking the organic classes and a physiology course I took, I can raise the science GPA to about a 3.45.

 

[swimchick]

I don't believe math courses count in your AACOMAS science GPA, but they do count in your AMCAS BCPM GPA.

 

[camaras2480]

peasant05 - thanks, I really appreciate your personal input. I am thinking about doing the retakes at the regional campus of my state school. I go to the main campus now, but I might just do the retakes at the campus in my hometown. I think they offer it (hopefully), and that'll cut down on living costs.

Also, I believe I miscalculated the sciGPA before. Calculus doesn't count in the science GPA right? So my science GPA is actually a 3.27, and assuming I do as well as I did last year in the upcoming 2 semesters, I am thinking I will graduate with a cumulative GPA of ~3.5 (according to the calculations right now). By retaking the organic classes and a physiology course I took, I can raise the science GPA to about a 3.45.

Calculus counts in AMCAS sGPA. Your approximate values are actually very critical. If you end up in the 3.4-3.45 range, this is (imo) a significant difference from 3.45-3.5. This part of the GPA scale is where things are really murky. I think, either way, as DrMid said before, shoot for the MCAT. if you can land a 33+ on the MCAT, you should be good to go.

If your MCAT is lower, however, a 3.4-3.5 may not cut it. If you can reach 3.5 though, I don't think its worth spending $50k on an SMP. I'd do postbac, and try to pull it up to 3.55, 3.6. If you end at 3.4 though, you should probably seriously consider an SMP.

 

[peasant05]

I agree with DrMidlife in that, whatever you do, don't do so much that you mess up the MCAT - it's way too important and torturous to retake.

It seems like you could really raise your GPAs to something respectable with more science classes. I'd suggest that, in addition to finishing next year strong and doing the retakes post-bac, try to fit in science classes whenever possible. You can take 1-2 per summer, unless for some reason you can't. That way you can take, say, 3 (orgo, physio, and something else manageable) during fall post-bac, and just orgo 2 with MCAT prep in the spring post-bac.

And to help keep getting As, remember that even if you take classes non-stop for the next 2 years, getting As in all undergrad classes will be a million times easier than doing super well in a SMP, and less risky.

 

[camaras2480]

And to help keep getting As, remember that even if you take classes non-stop for the next 2 years, getting As in all undergrad classes will be a million times easier than doing super well in a SMP, and less risky.

I do promote an SMP in some cases, but I totally second this from peasant.

 

[twocentnews]

Thank you for the words of wisdom, everyone.

One more question: If I took the retakes after graduating from my undergrad institution, and then took the 2 or 3 new science classes, would those get entered into AACOMAS/AMCAS has undergrad courses like the rest of my coursework, or as post-bacc courses? And how would entering them post-bacc figure into the GPA calculations?

 

[camaras2480]

Thank you for the words of wisdom, everyone.

One more question: If I took the retakes after graduating from my undergrad institution, and then took the 2 or 3 new science classes, would those get entered into AACOMAS/AMCAS has undergrad courses like the rest of my coursework, or as post-bacc courses? And how would entering them post-bacc figure into the GPA calculations?

DO schools take your more recent retake. MD schools average your retakes. Either way, post bac courses are cumulated to your undergrad gpa, as far as I am aware (someone please second this, or correct me).

 

[peasant05]

Yes, the post-bac courses will get calculated into your undergrad GPA, as long as they are all undergrad-level courses, which they should be.

In terms of entering them, say you took them at the same school/campus as your undergrad classes. Assuming you will have graduated and gotten your degree, your AMCAS would say (for example):

Undergrad school X : 2006-2010
Bachelor of Science
Major: abc
Minor: xyz

Undergrad school X : 2010-2011
No degree expected
No major
No minor

If it's taken at a different school, then it's even more straightforward since you enter that school.

And when you enter each individual class, there is a drop down selection of what kind of class it was, such as undergraduate or graduate. One of the options is specifically "post-baccalaureate undergraduate", so it is very clear.