Loosing Sleep over DO vs PA

[Smess]

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Hello!!

I currently have my BS in Veterinary Technology and AS in Animal Science. My pre-requisites for PA school are done and I have biochemistry and physics 2 to take for DO school applications. I wanted to take the GRE and the MCAT this summer and apply to both PA and DO schools and see what happened. Now that the time is coming up, I think I may be putting too much pressure to apply to both. Considering that none of my hours as a veterinary technologist count towards patient care for PA school, I will also need to get a min of 400 hours from now until applications are due in September.

I am new to human medicine since my focus was veterinary medicine up until last year. Currently, I shadow a PA and I am in love with what the PA does. However, I recently shadowed a DO and fell in love with the DO profession. My whole reason for going to human medicine is to have opportunities of growth in my career.

When I ask myself the question, "If you got into both the PA and DO school of your choice, which one would you choose?" I would choose DO school no questions asked. I also feel that if I got into PA school and not DO school I would be okay with being a PA as well. I have made a pro and con list for both and they are so close it is driving me crazy. I just don't want to have regrets if I become a PA and wish I would have made more effort for DO school.

Side note- I am 26 going on 27 this Summer and I am having doubts taking the MCAT before I take second semester physics and biochemistry. However, if I don't take it this summer that leaves me applying to DO school in 2016, making me 32 years old finishing 4 yrs in DO school.

Soooo... Should I take the GRE this Summer 2015 and go ahead and apply to PA schools and see if I get in? If I don't get in I plan on possibly getting my Masters in Science this year, take the MCAT in the Spring/Summer 2016 and apply for DO school in the Spring 2016.

I have to do well on both tests because my cumulative GPA is a 3.1 🙁

ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD HELP!!!!!

 

[doapplicant2015]

My quick two cents..Go DO. It will take longer, but if you're questioning it now just think how you will feel after two years of PA school. I went through this to a lesser degree, but it comes down to two years of schooling vs. 30+ years practicing.

 

[kenjixshadow]

x

 

[DopaDO]

When I ask myself the question, "If you got into both the PA and DO school of your choice, which one would you choose?" I would choose DO school no questions asked.

You answered your own question here. Retake the courses needed to boost your GPA, take the MCAT, and apply DO. PAs and Medical Doctors are extremely different. You are also not too old. Many of my classmates were your age when I started. I believe 26 is around the average age for first year students.

 

[D4C]

I would choose DO school no questions asked.

Sounds like you know what you want. And you're still in school it seems, so mentioning your GPA is neither here nor there for the time being. Keep your eyes on the prize and focus on bringing your GPA up as well as you may, and scoring well on the MCAT and I'm sure you will get some attention from DO schools if that is indeed what you truly want.

 

[group_theory]

Moving to pre-osteophatic

 

[pericardium]

Grade replacement will help you out quite a bit if your cGPA is 3.1, while CASPA does not offer grade replacement.

 

[acapnial]

Hello!!

I currently have my BS in Veterinary Technology and AS in Animal Science. My pre-requisites for PA school are done and I have biochemistry and physics 2 to take for DO school applications. I wanted to take the GRE and the MCAT this summer and apply to both PA and DO schools and see what happened. Now that the time is coming up, I think I may be putting too much pressure to apply to both. Considering that none of my hours as a veterinary technologist count towards patient care for PA school, I will also need to get a min of 400 hours from now until applications are due in September.

I am new to human medicine since my focus was veterinary medicine up until last year. Currently, I shadow a PA and I am in love with what the PA does. However, I recently shadowed a DO and fell in love with the DO profession. My whole reason for going to human medicine is to have opportunities of growth in my career.

When I ask myself the question, "If you got into both the PA and DO school of your choice, which one would you choose?" I would choose DO school no questions asked. I also feel that if I got into PA school and not DO school I would be okay with being a PA as well. I have made a pro and con list for both and they are so close it is driving me crazy. I just don't want to have regrets if I become a PA and wish I would have made more effort for DO school.

Side note- I am 26 going on 27 this Summer and I am having doubts taking the MCAT before I take second semester physics and biochemistry. However, if I don't take it this summer that leaves me applying to DO school in 2016, making me 32 years old finishing 4 yrs in DO school.

Soooo... Should I take the GRE this Summer 2015 and go ahead and apply to PA schools and see if I get in? If I don't get in I plan on possibly getting my Masters in Science this year, take the MCAT in the Spring/Summer 2016 and apply for DO school in the Spring 2016.

I have to do well on both tests because my cumulative GPA is a 3.1 🙁

ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD HELP!!!!!

I don't really know all that much about the new MCAT, but if you haven't taken 2nd semester physics and biochemistry and they're anything more than very minor points on the new MCAT, then really don't take it this summer. Graduating at 31 won't be that much better than graduating at 32.

I don't mean to be nosy, but are you 100% sure about being a DO or PA? If I read your post correctly, it sounds like if someone asked you a year ago what you wanted to be, you would have said a vet. What career growth is it that you're looking for that made you come to human medicine?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hello!!

I currently have my BS in Veterinary Technology and AS in Animal Science. My pre-requisites for PA school are done and I have biochemistry and physics 2 to take for DO school applications. I wanted to take the GRE and the MCAT this summer and apply to both PA and DO schools and see what happened. Now that the time is coming up, I think I may be putting too much pressure to apply to both. Considering that none of my hours as a veterinary technologist count towards patient care for PA school, I will also need to get a min of 400 hours from now until applications are due in September.

I am new to human medicine since my focus was veterinary medicine up until last year. Currently, I shadow a PA and I am in love with what the PA does. However, I recently shadowed a DO and fell in love with the DO profession. My whole reason for going to human medicine is to have opportunities of growth in my career.

When I ask myself the question, "If you got into both the PA and DO school of your choice, which one would you choose?" I would choose DO school no questions asked. I also feel that if I got into PA school and not DO school I would be okay with being a PA as well. I have made a pro and con list for both and they are so close it is driving me crazy. I just don't want to have regrets if I become a PA and wish I would have made more effort for DO school.

Side note- I am 26 going on 27 this Summer and I am having doubts taking the MCAT before I take second semester physics and biochemistry. However, if I don't take it this summer that leaves me applying to DO school in 2016, making me 32 years old finishing 4 yrs in DO school.

Soooo... Should I take the GRE this Summer 2015 and go ahead and apply to PA schools and see if I get in? If I don't get in I plan on possibly getting my Masters in Science this year, take the MCAT in the Spring/Summer 2016 and apply for DO school in the Spring 2016.

I have to do well on both tests because my cumulative GPA is a 3.1 🙁

ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD HELP!!!!!

You would be 32 when you graduate, Dang it wish I knew that was too old before I deposited cause I am gonna be 33 when I'm done...

Anyhow, in tens years you will be ten years older, I say finish the prereqs and take the mcat after. I applied to my current accepted school in december, and they took me. No need to rush ahead if you can do decently, and another year just isnt that big a deal (unless we are talking acceptance vs waiting, once you get accepted I think you go).

One thought tho- with a degree like vet tech and a gpa of 3.1 I would feel like your trying to do medicine cause you werent competative for vet school if I was an adcom. You will need to address this quickly and well at pretty much every level of your app if you want to succeed. Take advantage of DO allowing retakes and get rid of any C or below.in science classes, then come up with a great reason why you want to be a doctor rather than a vet.

 

[Smess]

I don't really know all that much about the new MCAT, but if you haven't taken 2nd semester physics and biochemistry and they're anything more than very minor points on the new MCAT, then really don't take it this summer. Graduating at 31 won't be that much better than graduating at 32.

I don't mean to be nosy, but are you 100% sure about being a DO or PA? If I read your post correctly, it sounds like if someone asked you a year ago what you wanted to be, you would have said a vet. What career growth is it that you're looking for that made you come to human medicine?

Not being nosy, I appreciate your comments! I have been in veterinary medicine for almost three years now working as a veterinary technician. Veterinary medicine is similar to human medicine except there is one huge difference that has driven me to look at other career paths in medicine. Veterinary medicine is primarily based off of money. Since animals don't have the same rights as people, healthcare is not a benefit. Therefore, if someone has cash available ($1500-$2500) to help treat their 2 year old dog who is obstructed from bladder stones and needs a cystotomy, we can help them. If not, euthanasia is probably what I will have to talk with the clients about. I want to be in a profession where I can use my knowledge and medical education to benefit the patient, without having money as the determining factor for life or death. I can't say that I am 100% sure about being a DO or PA but I am 100% sure that I do not want to be a Veterinarian.

 

[bcurtis]

I'm having the same problems now. I was set on DO school, but my university just started a PA school. The PA path is so tempting, and seems like it would provide me with what I want, but I don't ever want to feel like I sold myself short.

I have great empathy for you, I'm currently loosing sleep over it right now lol

 

[acapnial]

Not being nosy, I appreciate your comments! I have been in veterinary medicine for almost three years now working as a veterinary technician. Veterinary medicine is similar to human medicine except there is one huge difference that has driven me to look at other career paths in medicine. Veterinary medicine is primarily based off of money. Since animals don't have the same rights as people, healthcare is not a benefit. Therefore, if someone has cash available ($1500-$2500) to help treat their 2 year old dog who is obstructed from bladder stones and needs a cystotomy, we can help them. If not, euthanasia is probably what I will have to talk with the clients about. I want to be in a profession where I can use my knowledge and medical education to benefit the patient, without having money as the determining factor for life or death. I can't say that I am 100% sure about being a DO or PA but I am 100% sure that I do not want to be a Veterinarian.

I can see why that would be a deal breaker for vet medicine. I never really thought about PA stuff so I don't know if I can help you directly, but...

I had a friend in undergrad who was trying to decide whether he wanted to be a DO or a PA. He was a really smart guy, and the docs he shadowed told him very firmly that he needed to go to medical school because he would be bored being a PA, because PA's have limits to what they can do in the clinics and their medical education isn't as expansive or deep. He agonized over it for a while, because it WOULD bother him to always have to send a patient to someone else when the patient was too complicated or the procedure they needed was over his training level. However, he also had a lot of hobbies that he loved doing (rock climbing, whitewater rafting, all that) that he did pretty much every weekend. He ended up going to PA school because he didn't want to give up all the other stuff he loved doing so much, and he would have more time to do it as a PA.

I think it was probably the right decision for him because he was a live for the weekend kind of guy and I don't know that that's very compatible with being a doctor. It isn't with medical school. But maybe you swing to the other side and are too intellectually curious about medicine to not be a doctor.

 

[sunealoneal]

Side note- I am 26 going on 27 this Summer and I am having doubts taking the MCAT before I take second semester physics and biochemistry. However, if I don't take it this summer that leaves me applying to DO school in 2016, making me 32 years old finishing 4 yrs in DO school.

About 1/2 of my class is that age. You'll be fine.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

I want to be in a profession where I can use my knowledge and medical education to benefit the patient, without having money as the determining factor for life or death.

How much shadowing have you done? Unfortunately, a patient's financial resources are often very much a part of the kind of care they receive. That said, I will echo others in saying you answered your own question when you stated you would choose DO over PA without question.

 

[ehwhatsupdoc]

I think it depends on what specialty you are interested in. If its surgery or another procedure based specialty then go DO. If it's primary care or EM consider PA. I have a friend who recently graduated from PA school who is now working as an EM PA. His starting salary was $130k for 12 shifts a month. He also gets alot of OT and expects to easily make 150k, some of his PA coworkers break the 200k mark. He gets autonomy with the benefit of being able to ask the Physician to take a look if he's unsure of something. Not a bad way to go. One thing people don't factor in when looking at the future demand of healthcare professionals is technological advancements. Truth of the matter is a PA or NP will be just as capable as a Family Doctor in 10-20 years when they are able to use an A.I. program like IBM Watson to bridge their gap in knowledge. Its harder to make the same case for Surgery where you need extensive training that is provided in residency. Also financial debt is something to consider. Choose wisely.

 

[referee3]

I think it depends on what specialty you are interested in. If its surgery or another procedure based specialty then go DO. If it's primary care or EM consider PA. I have a friend who recently graduated from PA school who is now working as an EM PA. His starting salary was $130k for 12 shifts a month. He also gets alot of OT and expects to easily make 150k, some of his PA coworkers break the 200k mark. He gets autonomy with the benefit of being able to ask the Physician to take a look if he's unsure of something. Not a bad way to go. One thing people don't factor in when looking at the future demand of healthcare professionals is technological advancements. Truth of the matter is a PA or NP will be just as capable as a Family Doctor in 10-20 years when they are able to use an A.I. program like IBM Watson to bridge their gap in knowledge. Its harder to make the same case for Surgery where you need extensive training that is provided in residency. Also financial debt is something to consider. Choose wisely.

Lol what a joke. PA/NP will never be equivalent to physician.

Back to the topic at hand OP: PA school is meant for people who already have extensive clinical experience before they start school (because this acts as their residency so to speak since PA doesn't have one post graduation). You should only apply to PA school after having spent years in the field.

 

[Mad Jack]

I think it depends on what specialty you are interested in. If its surgery or another procedure based specialty then go DO. If it's primary care or EM consider PA. I have a friend who recently graduated from PA school who is now working as an EM PA. His starting salary was $130k for 12 shifts a month. He also gets alot of OT and expects to easily make 150k, some of his PA coworkers break the 200k mark. He gets autonomy with the benefit of being able to ask the Physician to take a look if he's unsure of something. Not a bad way to go. One thing people don't factor in when looking at the future demand of healthcare professionals is technological advancements. Truth of the matter is a PA or NP will be just as capable as a Family Doctor in 10-20 years when they are able to use an A.I. program like IBM Watson to bridge their gap in knowledge. Its harder to make the same case for Surgery where you need extensive training that is provided in residency. Also financial debt is something to consider. Choose wisely.

Once you're actually in medical school, you'll understand why a Watson-like diagnosis system is a pipe dream, at least in the near future. A computer is only as good as its data input, and there's a lot of diagnostic information that anyone who is not a physician can simply miss because they don't even know to look for it in the first place. Diagnosis is much more nuanced than most people understand, and, aside from that, no hospital is going to take on the liability of a computer's diagnosis and input in a situation. Physicians will have to be there as a liability sponge, with Watson-type systems operating as a digital consultant rather than a primary provider.

As to EM PAs- the issue here is that he's clocking overtime and taking the boring cases, while his physician colleagues make 2-3x as much for working 36 hours a week, all while getting to see the good stuff. At first, being a PA is great, but when it's 25 years down the line and you're making a third of what a kid half your age is, all while doing the mundane work rather than the interesting cases, it will grate on you. Or at least that's what I hear. If you're okay with that sort of arrangement, then by all means, you should go PA. A lot of people are fine with that sort of deal. But if it sounds awful, you might want to consider being a physician instead.

 

[ehwhatsupdoc]

Lol what a joke. PA/NP will never be equivalent to physician.

Back to the topic at hand OP: PA school is meant for people who already have extensive clinical experience before they start school (because this acts as their residency so to speak since PA doesn't have one post graduation). You should only apply to PA school after having spent years in the field.

How do you quantify being equal to a physician. For basic diagnostic skill (not talking about surgery or gas) all it takes is experience. And experience is dependent on the location and how much mentors are willing to show you and learn for yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if an emergency PA with 3 years experience at a busy trauma center could go toe to toe with someone fresh out of residency from a small community hospital. Also the OP stated they wouldn't mind being a PA, so since they are unsure of themselves I would advice the OP to think this through carefully. Without more shadowing to figure this out, I would say PA is the better choice for the OP.

 

[ehwhatsupdoc]

Once you're actually in medical school, you'll understand why a Watson-like diagnosis system is a pipe dream, at least in the near future. A computer is only as good as its data input, and there's a lot of diagnostic information that anyone who is not a physician can simply miss because they don't even know to look for it in the first place. Diagnosis is much more nuanced than most people understand, and, aside from that, no hospital is going to take on the liability of a computer's diagnosis and input in a situation. Physicians will have to be there as a liability sponge, with Watson-type systems operating as a digital consultant rather than a primary provider.

As to EM PAs- the issue here is that he's clocking overtime and taking the boring cases, while his physician colleagues make 2-3x as much for working 36 hours a week, all while getting to see the good stuff. At first, being a PA is great, but when it's 25 years down the line and you're making a third of what a kid half your age is, all while doing the mundane work rather than the interesting cases, it will grate on you. Or at least that's what I hear. If you're okay with that sort of arrangement, then by all means, you should go PA. A lot of people are fine with that sort of deal. But if it sounds awful, you might want to consider being a physician instead.

Thank you Mad Jack. I always enjoy reading your posts. You make very good points. The one point I think is a little more nuanced is that PAs only take the boring cases. I'm pretty sure there's not some patient screening process where all the boring cases go to the PA. Who would do this screening? I think it's more likely a PA will come across any type of patient and will have to decide if they need the Physcians input. With more years experience and learning from the physicians and when there's trust I'm sure the PA will be seen and consulted like other physicians on the team. Now if the PA leaves for another hospital they would have to prove themselves again, which would definitely be a negative for the PA.

 

[Mad Jack]

Thank you Mad Jack. I always enjoy your reading your posts. You make very good points. The one point I think is a little more nuanced is that PAs only take the boring cases. I'm pretty sure there's not some patient screening process where all the boring cases go to the PA. Who would do this screening? I think it's more likely a PA will come across any type of patient and will have to decide if they need the Physcians input. With more years experience and learning from the physicians and when there's trust I'm sure the PA will be seen and consulted like other physicians on the team. Now if the PA leaves for another hospital they would have to prove themselves again, which would definitely be a negative for the PA.

There actually is a screening process, it's called triage. At my old hospital, patients were triaged 1-5: 1- resuscitation, 2- emergent, 3- urgent, 4- less urgent, 5- non urgent. PAs were generally limited to 4s and 5s, with an occasional 3 if the physicians were swamped. Keep in mind the EM definition of "urgent" doesn't necessarily mean complex or exciting- we're talking bout someone with a broken wrist, norovirus leading to dehydration, etc. They never saw 1s or 2s, ever. There are places where PAs can fully run the show, particularly in rural areas. But in cities and most suburban areas, you're usually not going to get the good stuff.

 

[hawruh]

I'm pretty sure there's not some patient screening process where all the boring cases go to the PA. Who would do this screening?

Receptionists and nurses?

 

[ehwhatsupdoc]

There actually is a screening process, it's called triage. At my old hospital, patients were triaged 1-5: 1- resuscitation, 2- emergent, 3- urgent, 4- less urgent, 5- non urgent. PAs were generally limited to 4s and 5s, with an occasional 3 if the physicians were swamped. Keep in mind the EM definition of "urgent" doesn't necessarily mean complex or exciting- we're talking bout someone with a broken wrist, norovirus leading to dehydration, etc. They never saw 1s or 2s, ever. There are places where PAs can fully run the show, particularly in rural areas. But in cities and most suburban areas, you're usually not going to get the good stuff.

Thank you for explaining that.

 

[AM508]

There actually is a screening process, it's called triage. At my old hospital, patients were triaged 1-5: 1- resuscitation, 2- emergent, 3- urgent, 4- less urgent, 5- non urgent. PAs were generally limited to 4s and 5s, with an occasional 3 if the physicians were swamped. Keep in mind the EM definition of "urgent" doesn't necessarily mean complex or exciting- we're talking bout someone with a broken wrist, norovirus leading to dehydration, etc. They never saw 1s or 2s, ever. There are places where PAs can fully run the show, particularly in rural areas. But in cities and most suburban areas, you're usually not going to get the good stuff.

Yeah, that is how it worked at all of the hospitals I covered that had PA's. Most places had a low acuity zone and that is where the PA's were assigned.

 

[Smess]

How much shadowing have you done? Unfortunately, a patient's financial resources are often very much a part of the kind of care they receive. That said, I will echo others in saying you answered your own question when you stated you would choose DO over PA without question.

I have done over 100 hours of shadowing in the last few months. Can you go into a little more detail as to how a patient's financial resources are a part of the kind of care they receive? At my veterinary hospital, before we triage an animal who is in a life threatening crisis such as cardiac arrest or DKA, we need the owners to make a payment. No animal gets saved until we have money or at least an authorization that they will pay. I can see how elected procedures can depend on the insurance of the patient but is there ever a situation where doctors have to find out if the patient has money before they save their life? I am about to have my EMT certification and I know that medics and EMT's will go on runs and pick up intoxicated homeless people to take them to the hospital. I am assuming that they don't have a good insurance policy, if any, but they are still taken to the hospital via ambulance (which I know is not cheap). I am just curious to know more!

 

[Promethean]

You can certainly work in private hospitals / clinics that would require payment upfront prior to providing treatment, much as you experienced in vet med.

But human medicine offers many more opportunities to take care of the patient first and fret about the money later (if at all.) Not having a profit motive may make a significant segment of SDN grumble at you, and question your sincertity / tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about when you say that you don't care as much about getting paid as giving care. Take EMTALA for instance. The law that requires that humans experiencing a health crisis at least be triaged and provided stabilizing treatment without regard for their ability to pay in a facility that maintains an emergency department... it isn't popular among all health care providers, and some will argue stridently for its repeal... but it is the current law of the land. (Some patients have abused EMTALA and those who are most vocal about their dislike for it are the ones who have been on the front lines dealing with those patients, so I won't get drawn into an argument with them here. I'm only bringing it up to support OP's belief that humans do have more protections with regard to accessing health care, at least in the US, under certain circumstances. Let's agree on that point of fact and not sidetrack into argument about whether that should be true.)

I also say go the DO route. It is the difference between being able to practice as you see fit and being compelled to practice under someone else's supervision. (Not saying that all doctors get to do what they want all the time, but at least there is some degree of choice involved in the restrictions they accept when they choose to work for an employer.)

 

[DoctorKrieger]

I have done over 100 hours of shadowing in the last few months. Can you go into a little more detail as to how a patient's financial resources are a part of the kind of care they receive? At my veterinary hospital, before we triage an animal who is in a life threatening crisis such as cardiac arrest or DKA, we need the owners to make a payment. No animal gets saved until we have money or at least an authorization that they will pay. I can see how elected procedures can depend on the insurance of the patient but is there ever a situation where doctors have to find out if the patient has money before they save their life? I am about to have my EMT certification and I know that medics and EMT's will go on runs and pick up intoxicated homeless people to take them to the hospital. I am assuming that they don't have a good insurance policy, if any, but they are still taken to the hospital via ambulance (which I know is not cheap). I am just curious to know more!

If a patient goes to the ER with an acute life-threatening situation, they must be provided care by law, regardless of ability to pay. I'm talking more about preventive/palliative/chronic care where, even if the patient has insurance, they might not be able to receive the care they really need. Try to spend time shadowing docs in a family practice office, and then at a free clinic to give you first-hand experience.

 

[PIacebo]

Go with wherever you can get in. I applied to DO school and PA school at the same time. Got into multiple DO schools, 0 PA schools.

 

[Smess]

@ehwhatsupdoc Why did you choose med school?

 

[kalat]

I can see why that would be a deal breaker for vet medicine. I never really thought about PA stuff so I don't know if I can help you directly, but...

I had a friend in undergrad who was trying to decide whether he wanted to be a DO or a PA. He was a really smart guy, and the docs he shadowed told him very firmly that he needed to go to medical school because he would be bored being a PA, because PA's have limits to what they can do in the clinics and their medical education isn't as expansive or deep. He agonized over it for a while, because it WOULD bother him to always have to send a patient to someone else when the patient was too complicated or the procedure they needed was over his training level. However, he also had a lot of hobbies that he loved doing (rock climbing, whitewater rafting, all that) that he did pretty much every weekend. He ended up going to PA school because he didn't want to give up all the other stuff he loved doing so much, and he would have more time to do it as a PA.

I think it was probably the right decision for him because he was a live for the weekend kind of guy and I don't know that that's very compatible with being a doctor. It isn't with medical school. But maybe you swing to the other side and are too intellectually curious about medicine to not be a doctor.

I kind of understand what you're saying, but I think this just depends on how you can work your situation. "Low" pay for a full-time doctor is what these days? It seems to be around 175K for something like family medicine or HIV/AIDS based on the physician compensation report (which if you seem to ask any physician is always low across the board - especially if you're in a private practice). If you can graduate with minimal loans (or maybe you don't care about paying minimums) you can probably work half-time for 75-100K a year in these fields which is around what a PA generally makes.

Do these half-time jobs exist? I honestly don't know, but I would imagine they would be available somewhere in some shape or form. I think the time commitment is the impression people get from residency, surgical specialties, and the personality of the people that enter medicine. I have no problem believing most people interested in medicine want to work full-time, but I don't see why if you didn't want to work 40 (let's be honest, 40-60) hour weeks as a full fledged physician I don't see why you wouldn't be smart and capable enough to change that situation.

The real tradeoff is the training time. It's better to think about the time you want to spend in school rather than "what the rest of life is going to be like." There's certainly a large non-negotiable difference there.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I kind of understand what you're saying, but I think this just depends on how you can work your situation. "Low" pay for a full-time doctor is what these days? It seems to be around 175K for something like family medicine or HIV/AIDS based on the physician compensation report (which if you seem to ask any physician is always low across the board - especially if you're in a private practice). If you can graduate with minimal loans (or maybe you don't care about paying minimums) you can probably work half-time for 75-100K a year in these fields which is around what a PA generally makes.

Do these half-time jobs exist? I honestly don't know, but I would imagine they would be available somewhere in some shape or form. I think the time commitment is the impression people get from residency, surgical specialties, and the personality of the people that enter medicine. I have no problem believing most people interested in medicine want to work full-time, but I don't see why if you didn't want to work 40 (let's be honest, 40-60) hour weeks as a full fledged physician I don't see why you wouldn't be smart and capable enough to change that situation.

I have a friend at church who only works 30 hours a week. She is a family doc in a hospital owned practice. Works 3 days a week. Its definately a mommy track thing, and I don't think it is good for a long term practice (better to do that in something like Urgent care or ER which is much more conducive IMO). I have no idea how she keeps patient numbers up, I don't think I would want to see a part time physician as my primary, but it obviously works for some folks.

So yeah, there is no ironclad rule that you must work every day as a physician, or even 5 days a week.

 

[FCMike11]

Hello!!

I currently have my BS in Veterinary Technology and AS in Animal Science. My pre-requisites for PA school are done and I have biochemistry and physics 2 to take for DO school applications. I wanted to take the GRE and the MCAT this summer and apply to both PA and DO schools and see what happened. Now that the time is coming up, I think I may be putting too much pressure to apply to both. Considering that none of my hours as a veterinary technologist count towards patient care for PA school, I will also need to get a min of 400 hours from now until applications are due in September.

I am new to human medicine since my focus was veterinary medicine up until last year. Currently, I shadow a PA and I am in love with what the PA does. However, I recently shadowed a DO and fell in love with the DO profession. My whole reason for going to human medicine is to have opportunities of growth in my career.

When I ask myself the question, "If you got into both the PA and DO school of your choice, which one would you choose?" I would choose DO school no questions asked. I also feel that if I got into PA school and not DO school I would be okay with being a PA as well. I have made a pro and con list for both and they are so close it is driving me crazy. I just don't want to have regrets if I become a PA and wish I would have made more effort for DO school.

Side note- I am 26 going on 27 this Summer and I am having doubts taking the MCAT before I take second semester physics and biochemistry. However, if I don't take it this summer that leaves me applying to DO school in 2016, making me 32 years old finishing 4 yrs in DO school.

Soooo... Should I take the GRE this Summer 2015 and go ahead and apply to PA schools and see if I get in? If I don't get in I plan on possibly getting my Masters in Science this year, take the MCAT in the Spring/Summer 2016 and apply for DO school in the Spring 2016.

I have to do well on both tests because my cumulative GPA is a 3.1 🙁

ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD HELP!!!!!

You aren't old. I will be 27 at time of matriculation (if all goes well). So don't sweat that.

I fought the same thing (DO vs PA) and have had extensive shadowing and healthcare experience (ICU RN- 5 years). I tried to settle and sell PA to myself, I have a wife and two little kids, who mean absolutely everything to me and that relationship is my life. However, my wife is an RN and is ready to make that sacrifice.

If you feel this way now you will always second guess yourself and possibly regret. I've spent a lot of time on the main PA forum and seriously, many many posters there voice regrets/second guessing.

I think you know what your conclusion is.

 

[acapnial]

I kind of understand what you're saying, but I think this just depends on how you can work your situation. "Low" pay for a full-time doctor is what these days? It seems to be around 175K for something like family medicine or HIV/AIDS based on the physician compensation report (which if you seem to ask any physician is always low across the board - especially if you're in a private practice). If you can graduate with minimal loans (or maybe you don't care about paying minimums) you can probably work half-time for 75-100K a year in these fields which is around what a PA generally makes.

Do these half-time jobs exist? I honestly don't know, but I would imagine they would be available somewhere in some shape or form. I think the time commitment is the impression people get from residency, surgical specialties, and the personality of the people that enter medicine. I have no problem believing most people interested in medicine want to work full-time, but I don't see why if you didn't want to work 40 (let's be honest, 40-60) hour weeks as a full fledged physician I don't see why you wouldn't be smart and capable enough to change that situation.

The real tradeoff is the training time. It's better to think about the time you want to spend in school rather than "what the rest of life is going to be like." There's certainly a large non-negotiable difference there.

That's a good point. I don't really know how frequent it is to find jobs like that either.

 

[NontradCA]

I have done over 100 hours of shadowing in the last few months. Can you go into a little more detail as to how a patient's financial resources are a part of the kind of care they receive? At my veterinary hospital, before we triage an animal who is in a life threatening crisis such as cardiac arrest or DKA, we need the owners to make a payment. No animal gets saved until we have money or at least an authorization that they will pay. I can see how elected procedures can depend on the insurance of the patient but is there ever a situation where doctors have to find out if the patient has money before they save their life? I am about to have my EMT certification and I know that medics and EMT's will go on runs and pick up intoxicated homeless people to take them to the hospital. I am assuming that they don't have a good insurance policy, if any, but they are still taken to the hospital via ambulance (which I know is not cheap). I am just curious to know more!

Most the disparities you'll see are a result of poverty and less about health insurance. Poor people have less access to healthy foods, healthy habits and healthy lifestyles. You're not going to be able to fix poverty as a physician. That being said, you can certainly do your best to make a positive impact on someone and show empathy in a person who wouldn't otherwise expect it.

As to your original question, it's a tough one. I struggled with it myself and ultimately ended up DO. Id say to take the higher education and more protected profession. PAs don't have the amount of political pull that NPs do, and in states like man, have less autonomy than them. YMMV. Good luck and realize that it's a long road and will take patience.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Most the disparities you'll see are a result of poverty and less about health insurance. Poor people have less access to healthy foods, healthy habits and healthy lifestyles. You're not going to be able to fix poverty as a physician. That being said, you can certainly do your best to make a positive impact on someone and show empathy in a person who wouldn't otherwise expect it.

As to your original question, it's a tough one. I struggled with it myself and ultimately ended up DO. Id say to take the higher education and more protected profession. PAs don't have the amount of political pull that NPs do, and in states like man, have less autonomy than them. YMMV. Good luck and realize that it's a long road and will take patience.

This is more true than I realized. I had a conversation recently with a professor who teaches at my university. He said he was one of the proponents for setting up a PA school in my state. However, because of the nurse's union, it was never realized. The power plays these nurse unions do is just ridiculous.

 

[notbobtrustme]

if you made a topic debating DO vs PA, then you aren't 100% committed. Go PA. You'll be done earlier, make money and have less debt. You'll have more free time and less responsibility. TBH, this is a good thing for the vast majority of people.

Make a list of pros and cons. Weigh your options then. For the most part, the folks in my class who are most unhappy are also the ones that were most naive about the medical profession. So many people think it's just doctors and nurses with no middle ground. Unfortunately, this isn't the 1850s. There are hundreds to thousands of specialized positions that don't require 12 years of training like becoming a physician does.

 

[W19]

Not that it matters that much: You will on occasion get 'I don't want to be seen by a PA or NP' or 'I have been in the hospital for [number] days and I never saw my 'dokta'. When is he/she coming to see me?' You will get that on occasion from some patients (usually upper middle class patients). Most people would say that does not bother them, but I noticed that it bothered some of the 'coolest' PA that I used to work with...