LOR analysis

[ajan]

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how do u find following sample LOR? does it sound average/generic or good/strong?

"I am writing in recommenddation of Mr.X as he applies to residency in United States.
X spent three months at Y Hospital in 200x.He spent the majority of that time on my service.He is an extrememly hard working person.I was impressed with his fund of knowledge,his enthusiasm and his work ethic.He was well above average for a medical student. I believe he would make a very good resident, and would be completely commited to any program accepting him. I am certain you would find him a very hard-working,dedicated resident,who gets along well with all members of the team, and who provides very good to excellent patient care."

 

[ajan]

will appreciate if u reply, since being an attending u can better access it in terms of seeing if its got what programs look for in LORs.

 

[Shangal]

I am not sure if you know this, but you are not supposed to read your LORs. Its kind of gutsy to just post them out there like this

 

[ajan]

if its not okay to post such threads,i request the moderator if it can be removed.

 

[Gentle]

I am not sure if you know this, but you are not supposed to read your LORs. Its kind of gutsy to just post them out there like this

Says who?? You COULD read it if you want but in such a case, you will NOT waive your rights to reading the letter. If you signed to wave your rights to read the letter, then it's not ethical for you to read it even if you had a chance to. So unless it is against the forum's rules of posting LORs (I don't know), I don't think you did anything wrong if you never waived your rights to reading the letter.

Anyway, good luck.

-Gentle-

 

[Shangal]

I did not know that. My counsler told me that I had to waive my right to read it when I asked for LORs, so I assumed everybody had too

Anyways, I am often wrong, I just misunderstood the rules.

 

[Winged Scapula]

1) its not against forum rules to post LORs
2) you can read your LORs if you wish
3) *most* people waive their rights to #2
4) *most* faculty would look askance at someone who didn't do #3
5) the LOR posted in the first post is non-specific (ie, what are you applying for, *why* are you so special), repetitive (ie, hard working is mentioned more than once) and I would not consider it anything special

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

"I am writing in recommenddation of Mr.X as he applies to residency in United States.
X spent three months at Y Hospital in 200x.He spent the majority of that time on my service.He is an extrememly hard working person.I was impressed with his fund of knowledge,his enthusiasm and his work ethic.He was well above average for a medical student. I believe he would make a very good resident, and would be completely commited to any program accepting him. I am certain you would find him a very hard-working,dedicated resident,who gets along well with all members of the team, and who provides very good to excellent patient care."

I would agree that this isn't really anything special. It is very non-specific and I get the impression the letter writer doesn't really know the candidate. It is also pretty short, and the last line (typically the take home message) is pretty weak.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I would agree that this isn't really anything special. It is very non-specific and I get the impression the letter writer doesn't really know the candidate. It is also pretty short, and the last line (typically the take home message) is pretty weak.

Agreed it sounds as if the writer doesn't know you well. In addition, some of the language "program accepting him" leads me to believe that the letter writer is not familiar with the US matching system. Programs don't accept residents.

 

[ajan]

Agreed it sounds as if the writer doesn't know you well. In addition, some of the language "program accepting him" leads me to believe that the letter writer is not familiar with the US matching system. Programs don't accept residents.

the letter writer is the Chair of surgery, at a USA surgery program where i did clinical electives as a visiting international medical student,.thanks for the replies.i didnt waive the right to see my LOR and the writer know ive seen the text.

all ur comments sound like its a poor LOR.so i better not use it for eras match.im posting my other LORs.plz do tell which 2 should i use,since being a FMG i have no idea how to access US LORs.

 

[thedrjojo]

I think your biggest mistake was not waiving your right to see them. If a writer knows you will not be seeing it they can be honest, and you should not worry because you should only ask people for letters which you believe know you well enough to write a good letter. Not saying they won't be honest if you don't waive the right, but it is a sign of you not trusting what is in it and programs receiving the letters interpert it as such. In the future, when you ask for letters, waive that right! The letters carry much more weight

 

[ajan]

1)Writer : Asst Professor of Surgery.



"This letter is to recommend Mr.X for a residency in General Surgery.Mr.X is an International Visiting Medical Student who spent the month of April 2008 working with our department.He has professed strong interestin s surgical career.

Mr.X participted actively everyday on rounds.He would also attend rounds on weekends.He would complete all his assignments in a timely fashion.He would scrub in on as many cases as he could and it would appear that he has steady hands.He would also come in the middle of the night to scrub in on emergency transplants and organ procurements.

Mr.X was well likd by everyone in our service.He got alongwell with doctors,students and nursing staff.He is easy going and appears to be a team player.

I think Mr.X would work hard in a surgical residency.He plans to give his USMLE exams in near future and subsequently start his application process.I wish him all the best in his future career prospects.I can be contacted for any questions regarding his matter."

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

the letter writer is the Chair of surgery, at a USA surgery program where i did clinical electives as a visiting international medical student,.thanks for the replies.i didnt waive the right to see my LOR and the writer know ive seen the text.

all ur comments sound like its a poor LOR.so i better not use it for eras match.im posting my other LORs.plz do tell which 2 should i use,since being a FMG i have no idea how to access US LORs.

1) Agree with the above that you should have waived your right to see them. Too late at this point to do anything about it though.
2) Most programs require 3 letters, not 2; some additionally require a letter from your home dept chair.

 

[ajan]

2)writer : Assosiate Professor of Surgery
Director Abdominal Transplant Service.



"I am writing this letter on behalf of Mr.X , a medical student from xxxx , who has recently spent several weeks on our busy Abdominal Transplant Service.

I had the oppertunity to interact with X on multiple occasions.He was always eager to be involved in patient care, both in and out of the operating room.He asked pertinent and intelligent questions.It was clear to me that he went the extra step to think of the differential diagnosisof his patients and to understand the clinical decision making.

X is clearly hard working and intelligent.I beleive he will be very successful in the future.He is interested in a surgicll career and i beleive he would do very well as a surgical resident.He speaks excellent English and this should not be any limitation to him whatsoever. I look forward to following X's professional career.I suspect he will do well.

Should there be any question about his time spent with us please do not hesitate to contact me. "

 

[ajan]

3)Asst Professor of Surgery.

i guess i can use the following letter.its concerned with the research surgery where i was trainee Ressearch Surgeon for Heart transplantation.

Dear Program Director:
I am writing this letter in recommendation of X[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial] ..for a surgical resident position at your program. X is highly motivated and is sure to be an asset wherever he goes.

X and I worked together almost daily during the summer of 2008 while he trained as our transplant research fellow. His tenure was largely a transition period requiring numerous meetings and collaboration in a finite amount of time with the outgoing research fellow—all in an effort to become adept regarding his future project. X was dedicated, fearlessness, and demonstrated sound intellect while at our program. Through extensive textbook and literature review, hands-on practice and self-initiative X mastered the rodent heterotopic heart transplant needed to execute the project’s experiments. Unfortunately, as a result of administrative challenges at our institution and through no fault of his own, X was unable to be hired for the entire 2008-2009 academic year.
​

Ultimately, X aspires to be a surgeon. He is model candidate for surgical residency. He is self-motivated and hard working evidence by his performance as our summer research fellow. He is committed to continuing education which I witnessed during his pursuit to learn microsurgical techniques. X has good surgical hands and will do well if given the opportunity. Please consider X for an appointment in your program. "

 

[Winged Scapula]

It's not that the letter from the Chair of Surgery is "poor" but rather in comparison to the two others it is clear he doesn't know you. The other two are much more detailed and specific and support your application better IMHO.

 

[ajan]

2) Most programs require 3 letters, not 2; some additionally require a letter from your home dept chair.

i'll be sending 2 US LORs and 1 from Surgery Chair at my home institution.that makes it 3 in total.programs ask for 3 LOR,from FMGs, including 1 from the chair at ur home institute

 

[ajan]

It's not that the letter from the Chair of Surgery is "poor" but rather in comparison to the two others it is clear he doesn't know you. The other two are much more detailed and specific and support your application better IMHO.

thanks a ton winged scapula for quickly reviewing the remaing 2.i also posted a 3rd one,will appreciate if u can take a look and comment + tell me which 2 out of 3(excluding chair's) i should use.
appreciate ur advice

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

thanks a ton winged scapula for quickly reviewing the remaing 2.i also posted a 3rd one,will appreciate if u can take a look and comment + tell me which 2 out of 3(excluding chair's) i should use.
appreciate ur advice

That is a bit tough. I think the third one is actually the most praising letter - but it has a couple strikes against it:
1) it is someone who didn't work with you clinically
2) I think it will get an odd look from some readers b/c it kind of sounds like you were let go unexpectedly from the research position before it ever really blossomed, and people may question the circumstances of that.

I would probably use the two you posted earlier, and then use the research letter if programs allow a "+1" or fourth LOR.

 

[ajan]

That is a bit tough. I think the third one is actually the most praising letter - but it has a couple strikes against it:
1) it is someone who didn't work with you clinically
2) I think it will get an odd look from some readers b/c it kind of sounds like you were let go unexpectedly from the research position before it ever really blossomed, and people may question the circumstances of that.

I would probably use the two you posted earlier, and then use the research letter if programs allow a "+1" or fourth LOR.

thanks for the reply.appreciate ur opinion!

 

[Gentle]

thanks for the reply.appreciate ur opinion!

I definitely agree with southernIM. When I start reading the third one, I get the best feel of you as an individual and potential surgeon. The writer even says "he's sure to be an asset". As southernIM pointed out, you never went through with the project (not ur fault as stated) and seems like u did some surgery but on animals.

So, I'll send in 1st and 2nd and then the 3rd in those places who don't specify how many letters you can send or who don't limit you to 3 letters only.

-Gentle-

 

[ajan]

I definitely agree with southernIM. When I start reading the third one, I get the best feel of you as an individual and potential surgeon. The writer even says "he's sure to be an asset". As southernIM pointed out, you never went through with the project (not ur fault as stated) and seems like u did some surgery but on animals.

So, I'll send in 1st and 2nd and then the 3rd in those places who don't specify how many letters you can send or who don't limit you to 3 letters only.

-Gentle-

thanks gentle for reviewing all 4 LORs .personally i too like the last one most! cant i send all of the last 3 lORs + chair at home school's one??will it be an overkill to send more than 3 to programs which mention 3 required LORS on their website?

 

[Winged Scapula]

thanks gentle for reviewing all 4 LORs .personally i too like the last one most! cant i send all of the last 3 lORs + chair at home school's one??will it be an overkill to send more than 3 to programs which mention 3 required LORS on their website?

Yes, it looks like you can't follow directions.

If a program says send 3 letters, then only send 3. If you have another which you feel significantly adds to your application, you can call the program and ask if sending another would be acceptable, but otherwise I wouldn't do it.

 

[Gentle]

thanks gentle for reviewing all 4 LORs .personally i too like the last one most! cant i send all of the last 3 lORs + chair at home school's one??will it be an overkill to send more than 3 to programs which mention 3 required LORS on their website?

ajan, from personal experience, this is what I did at one of the programs that I applied to and got an inv. The program required 3LORs but I sent 4 (2 from clinical faculty, 1 from chair & 1 from research PI). I did some research during med school and the PI offered to write a very strong LOR on my behalf. I knew that this program really valued research so I had to weigh the consequence of either sending it or leaving it out. I made the decision to send it in b/c in my mind, the +ves outweighed the -ves. Apparently, I wasn't penalized for that. So it really depends.

-Gentle-

 

[thedrjojo]

I didn't bother looking at any of the programs requirements and sent 4 letters to all of them... I got the interviews I wanted and no one said anything to me about having too many letters...

 

[doc05]

most programs will be ok with either 3 or 4 letters (but 3 is the usual minimum). I am concerned that none of the letters is particularly well-written. Is English the letter writers' primary language?

 

[ajan]

most programs will be ok with either 3 or 4 letters (but 3 is the usual minimum). I am concerned that none of the letters is particularly well-written. Is English the letter writers' primary language?

yes.

 

[filter07]

The first one by the chair is mediocre. The others are good. I'm sure you just paraphrased and left out other parts of the letters, because the letters should have some info about your background. My letters said, this is so-and-so, he went to undergrad at X, went to medical school Y, rotated with me, his interests are Z, etc. If they don't have that info then you should be giving people your CV so they can pretend they know you better when they write their letters.

 

[ajan]

The first one by the chair is mediocre. The others are good. I'm sure you just paraphrased and left out other parts of the letters, because the letters should have some info about your background. My letters said, this is so-and-so, he went to undergrad at X, went to medical school Y, rotated with me, his interests are Z, etc. If they don't have that info then you should be giving people your CV so they can pretend they know you better when they write their letters.

yours is the most technical advice i've received yet.thanks a ton!!! i didnt realize these thing until now.you see as IMGs we dont know these things(like what should be there in LOR and to give Personal CVs to letter writer so they can write in a way that reflects they know u in a bit detail!)

every letter conatins my name,only 1 contains the name of my med school,1 of them says "a visiting international medical student" , the other says "medical student from xxxxx(country)".

chairman altogether didnt mention any such thing.and none mentioned any of my interests, although 3 of them asked for my CV.

 

[ajan]

The first one by the chair is mediocre. The others are good. I'm sure you just paraphrased and left out other parts of the letters, because the letters should have some info about your background. My letters said, this is so-and-so, he went to undergrad at X, went to medical school Y, rotated with me, his interests are Z, etc. If they don't have that info then you should be giving people your CV so they can pretend they know you better when they write their letters.

solid analysis!like it 👍👍👍
thanx!

 

[ajan]

reviewing filter07 analysis i think the 5th LOR i have is quiet up to mark to what a good LOR should look like.the only problem is that its from Professor of Cardiology (although the same cardiology section dealt with interventional cardiology e.g angiography/plasty.i also attended such procedures during my stay.) his profile in the LOR reads as

xxxxxxxxx MD,FACC
Professor of Medicine
Section of Cardiology-Heart and Vascular Institute
xxxxxxx University School of Medicine

plz do read the following LOR and give ur opinion abt the quality of LOR and most importantly can i use it for surgery application? APRECIATE AND HIGLY REGARD COMMENTS FROM YOU ALL.




"I am pleased to write this letter of referance and recommendation on behalf of X,one of our international rotating medical students, who is currently enrolled at xxxxxxx(med school),xxxxxxx(city,country).

X rotated on my cardiology consult service at xxxxxx hospital during the month of May 2008. I served as the attending cardiologist in charge during that period.During his rotation, X evaluated patients in consultation along with the cardiology team.He attended clinical rounds and performed history and physical examinations.

X was outstanding during his rotation.He was very enthusiastic about learning and participating in the care of our patients.He cam to work on weekends and also arrived ver early every day.His knowledge of clinical medicine exceeded that of his peers.He was proactive in his research of clinical problems, and motivated to present his findings to our team.His communication skills were excellent.His demeanor was always professional, and herelated well to staff and team members alike during his rotation.

X is clearly very hard working, disciplined , and bright young man and it was a pleasure to have him on my service. I am confident that he will make an excellent resident in any residency program fortunate enough to recruit him. I recommend him to you without reservation.

Please contact me should any further information is needed."

 

[ajan]

i would love to add that all my friends here at home ,who rotated at differnt hospitals in USA during their clinicl years, have found this thread to be immensly helpful in self assessing their LORs.before this we had no way of knowing the quality of our LORs.now we can determine atleast the order in which we r gonna send our LORs to programs.
thankyou all sdn members who are helping.

 

[filter07]

Generally speaking, surgeons only care what other surgeons say. And surgeons will place greater weight to letters written by people they know. I had 4 letters when I applied. All were from surgeons. I did not bother to get letters from anyone else because I assumed it wouldn't matter. Also, many programs have guidelines on how many letters to send. Most will ask for 3-4. Although the letter from the cardiologist is supportive, I don't know if it would help. If they only ask for 3 letters, send the 3 best letters from surgeons. If you can send as many as you want, you might consider sending the cardiologist's letter. It's hard to say, as there's no definite answer.

 

[ajan]

Generally speaking, surgeons only care what other surgeons say. And surgeons will place greater weight to letters written by people they know. I had 4 letters when I applied. All were from surgeons. I did not bother to get letters from anyone else because I assumed it wouldn't matter. Also, many programs have guidelines on how many letters to send. Most will ask for 3-4. Although the letter from the cardiologist is supportive, I don't know if it would help. If they only ask for 3 letters, send the 3 best letters from surgeons. If you can send as many as you want, you might consider sending the cardiologist's letter. It's hard to say, as there's no definite answer.

appreciate your advice !

 

[Rabbit Hole]

I really hate to be a downer here.. but it sounds like you were asked to write your own letter of recommendation and you came here to ask for advice on what content you should include and what needs to be edited.

I'm sure this isn't the first time a student has written their own LOR, but there are strict STRICT rules on ECFMG regarding this kind of behavior. It's not wise to post this on SDN. Additionally, the tone and style of a LOR can make a PD suspicious as to who actually wrote it. For example, if the letter is supposed to be from an American born surgeon and the letter "sounds" like a foreigner wrote it... it's not going to look good for you.

If I'm completely wrong, I apologize.

 

[NEEDLE DRIVER]

I agree with Rabbit Hole. Having had the opportunity to write several recommendation letters due to past careers I have had, I can say that the letters previously posted are poorly written and have common grammatical/spelling errors that no native English speaker (or someone with a spellchecker) would make. I would advise you to thoroughly proofread each letter since you have waived your right to see them and ensure that these mistakes are not sent to PDs. Just make sure you are not the one writing the letter for previously stated reasons.

Also, I would stick with surgeon LORs as they will be able to attest to the attributes you possess that are most relevant to the surgical. If you are applying to heavy academic programs and have significant research experience, a letter from your PI may also prove useful as previously stated. Good luck.

 

[ROBINHO]

Rabbit actually I didnt want to meddle in this...but I think u are spot on. The letter sounds foreign than American. I am an IMG myself and I go to a lot of Intl forums...and the expression ''give the USMLE'' I associate it to english speakers from one part of the world.
Not only that, simple simple details of the English.
''who provides very good to excellent patient care''
''I can be contacted for any questions regarding his matter''

We could all be wrong but again if over here in the forum there are red flags and so many question marks then imagine what the PDs who read so many letters would think.

 

[ajan]

I agree with Rabbit Hole. Having had the opportunity to write several recommendation letters due to past careers I have had, I can say that the letters previously posted are poorly written and have common grammatical/spelling errors that no native English speaker (or someone with a spellchecker) would make. I would advise you to thoroughly proofread each letter since you have waived your right to see them and ensure that these mistakes are not sent to PDs. Just make sure you are not the one writing the letter for previously stated reasons.

Also, I would stick with surgeon LORs as they will be able to attest to the attributes you possess that are most relevant to the surgical. If you are applying to heavy academic programs and have significant research experience, a letter from your PI may also prove useful as previously stated. Good luck.

i didnt know that in usa you guys were given oppertunity to write your own letter of recommendations 😕.
these letters are genuinely written by american attendings.yes there are some spelling mistakes but do keep in mind i didnt scanned the letters and uploaded them here.i typed them!! so spelling mistakes were expected as were some formating errors e.g spacing ,etc.
and these letters are dated summer' 2008.so if i had an oppertunity to write one of my own , i would have asked for analysis in 2008, not now!!

 

[ajan]

by the way its a big revelation for me that you guys had a chance of writing your own LOR.lucky you guys.in my country ( & i thought universely) that wasnt allowed and considered malpractice/unethical.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

i didnt know that in usa you guys were given oppertunity to write your own letter of recommendations 😕.
these letters are genuinely written by american attendings.yes there are some spelling mistakes but do keep in mind i didnt scanned the letters and uploaded them here.i typed them!! so spelling mistakes were expected as were some formating errors e.g spacing ,etc.
and these letters are dated summer' 2008.so if i had an oppertunity to write one of my own , i would have asked for analysis in 2008, not now!!

by the way its a big revelation for me that you guys had a chance of writing your own LOR.lucky you guys.in my country ( & i thought universely) that wasnt allowed and considered malpractice/unethical.

You're welcome.

 

[NEEDLE DRIVER]

by the way its a big revelation for me that you guys had a chance of writing your own LOR.lucky you guys.in my country ( & i thought universely) that wasnt allowed and considered malpractice/unethical.

You may have misinterpreted my post. As I stated above, I was able to write letters for others due to other careers I have had (high-school teacher etc.) NOT that I have written a letter for myself or anyone else in medical school for residency. Additionally, I also stated that because you WAIVED YOUR RIGHT AND SAW THE LETTERS you might as well make sure they don't have mistakes in them regardless of who they were written by.

 

[Winged Scapula]

However, we should be truthful and admit that some students *do* write their own letters as asked by faculty who are too busy/lazy to do it themselves.

Its clearly not malpractice. I'm not even sure its unethical as long as the person signing the letter reviews it before signing. Its just lame, IMHO.