Do you ask for the LOR at the end of the rotation or wait until application season and go back and ask the doctor for one?
LORs and when to ask for them?
- Thread starter Zback
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I personally talked to the ones I had great rapport with at the end of rotations and kept in contact with them throughout the year. It helped out a lot, as I was complemented about lor's during interviews.
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It's best to ask at the end of, or very shortly after, the time you work with the prospective letter writer. This gives them the best chance to give specific examples of skills you've demonstrated, and to tailor their recommendation to your performance as a member of their team, rather than simply a student that they may or may not recall working with this Autumn.
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ask immediately right after rotations. i asked for mine at the end of the year, which i felt didnt degrade the quality of the LOR but it was certainly more awkward as some of these people have not seen me in months (could be a plus since i honored the rotations but was not a superstar, so they only base the letter on your grade 😀).
PS
I did ask my AI preceptor for a letter right after the rotation (which I also honored) and submitted those to my prelim/TY applications and many said it was my strongest letter by far.
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I've got two so far, the first I asked the attending after rounds one morning who said he would write one, then followed this up at the formal end of rotation feedback.
Second one, I had helped out teaching some 3rd year students and the consultant mentioned 'if I needed anything signing etc just to find him' so I saw that as a green light to go and ask.
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once you apply, you have to give the author a coversheet . For the letter to be official, it has to be sent directly from the author to your student affairs office to be uploaded to ERAS. You can of course ask for the letter to be written way early and waive your right to see the letter, or not waive your right and read the letter. Programs tend to put more credibility on the letter where the applicant waived his/her right, obviously, because the author will likely be more "honest".
On that cover sheet it has something about what specialty the letter is for. How would that work if I was applying for two fields? I don't have to have two sets of LORs for both fields do I?
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Did you guys get letters third year, or wait till fourth?
Also, should these letters come from the specialty to which are applying to, or does it not matter? For instance, I did very well, and got very flattering reviews, on my surgery rotation.... but I am applying to medicine. Should I ask my attendings from surgery for a letter?
Also, should these letters come from the specialty to which are applying to, or does it not matter? For instance, I did very well, and got very flattering reviews, on my surgery rotation.... but I am applying to medicine. Should I ask my attendings from surgery for a letter?
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Looks best if it is for your specialty, but you can always ask the attending to write you a 'generic' LOR, say something like 'yeah I'm not too sure what I want to end up doing at this stage' bla bla.
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Having a letter or two from third year might make the first few months of fourth year a little less stressful, but I don't think it's completely necessary. All the letters I ended up using for residency applications came from my fourth year specialty-specific rotations. I had no issues getting the letters I needed during these first 3-4 months because the docs you're working with expect that you'll be asking.
Also, it's perfectly reasonable to have a bonus letter from a specialty other than the one to which you're applying.
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This is how I did it. I asked in the beginning of my last week. For some of my attendings I gave them my CV and personal statement. I had mine early because I needed to submit it for a sub I, but having a rough copy of your CV third year can help you out.
My biggest piece of advice is do NOT waive your rights. See all your letters. I got 5 letters total, 4 from within the field and 1 from outside. Its funny because you never know who is going to write you a great letter from an outstanding letter. This way when you go to submit your letters you know exactly which ones you want.
Also on my interview I brought extra copies of each of my letters. You will learn that in some hospitals never look through your file until the day of the interview. Also if its a group interview, you can hand them out to your interviewers and or use them in the future. Dont listen to anyone who says they like it when you do waive your rights, frankly they actually have no idea and don't care.
But I cannot stress this enough. See all your letters because you never know how they will be.
My biggest piece of advice is do NOT waive your rights. See all your letters. I got 5 letters total, 4 from within the field and 1 from outside. Its funny because you never know who is going to write you a great letter from an outstanding letter. This way when you go to submit your letters you know exactly which ones you want.
Also on my interview I brought extra copies of each of my letters. You will learn that in some hospitals never look through your file until the day of the interview. Also if its a group interview, you can hand them out to your interviewers and or use them in the future. Dont listen to anyone who says they like it when you do waive your rights, frankly they actually have no idea and don't care.
But I cannot stress this enough. See all your letters because you never know how they will be.
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I'd have to say that if I were an interviewer, being handed a LOR during the interview would be a huge turn off. I'm not an interviewer, though.
The conventional wisdom is to waive your rights and I've been told that by several program directors and I woudn't want to risk devaluing the integrity of letter by not waiving. Nonetheless, I was lucky my letter writers voluntarily shared their letter with me and it is true that not everyone who gives you great verbal feedback can put that in writing.
Also, keys to make your letter better would be to tell your letter writer at the BEGINNING of your rotation. This depends of the rotation and how the attending schedule is set up but if you know an attending is well known and you'll be with him for at least 2 weeks and you'd like their letter its best to tell them upfront.
Within the first few days of a rotation set up a meeting and ask for their expectations and end by saying that if all goes well you'd like a letter. This way, they evaluate you better and can make personalized notes throughout the time to put in the letter. Downside is that you have to be on your A game all the time which makes for a better rotation and a better letter.
In the last few days, give them a paper copy and follow it up with an electronic copy of your CV & personal statement. Even if your PS is in rough draft form, send it to them just so they have a general idea of your background. Make sure your give them 6-8 weeks so you can remind them (most people are busy and will forget/delay)
Also, keys to make your letter better would be to tell your letter writer at the BEGINNING of your rotation. This depends of the rotation and how the attending schedule is set up but if you know an attending is well known and you'll be with him for at least 2 weeks and you'd like their letter its best to tell them upfront.
Within the first few days of a rotation set up a meeting and ask for their expectations and end by saying that if all goes well you'd like a letter. This way, they evaluate you better and can make personalized notes throughout the time to put in the letter. Downside is that you have to be on your A game all the time which makes for a better rotation and a better letter.
In the last few days, give them a paper copy and follow it up with an electronic copy of your CV & personal statement. Even if your PS is in rough draft form, send it to them just so they have a general idea of your background. Make sure your give them 6-8 weeks so you can remind them (most people are busy and will forget/delay)
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I make them an offer they can't refuse. I give them a template then I put a gun to their head. I tell them, "Either your signature or your brains will be on this letter of recommendation..."
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ask early
ideally by end of june or early july
I had to harass one of my letter-writers during my interview with him (he also happened to be one of my interviewers at my home program)
So yes, I was still harassing my letter-writers at the end of Oct.
Our interaction during the interview:
"I know you don't have any but I'm supposed to ask this... So.. any question?"
"Yes, when will I get that letter?"
ideally by end of june or early july
I had to harass one of my letter-writers during my interview with him (he also happened to be one of my interviewers at my home program)
So yes, I was still harassing my letter-writers at the end of Oct.
Our interaction during the interview:
"I know you don't have any but I'm supposed to ask this... So.. any question?"
"Yes, when will I get that letter?"
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Your name always reminds me of Raynaud's. Just thought I'd throw that out there lol.
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Given that the vast majority of students will have at least one of their letters be from their early M4 rotations in July or August, this is not always possible. Try to get at least a few of them by then though. (ERAS opens this coming year Sept 15 with the MSPEs going out a month earlier than usual at Oct 1. It would be best to get your letters in during this two week window)
Also, to the poster above who advises not waiving your right to see your letters: From everything I've been told by quite a few people, this is very poor advice. The programs can see the cover sheets that say whether you did or not, and would be concerned (rightly so!) that if you don't waive your rights the letters might not be honest evaluations of you. I plan on waiving my rights.
The best thing to do is to phrase your request as a very straightforward question: "Would you feel comfortable writing me a strong letter of recommendation?" If you sense hesitancy in their answer, even if it is yes, avoid using the letter.
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If you plan to submit your application as early as possible (July 1st) then have your application complete by then (including all the letters).
Some programs will wait until all the letters are in before inviting you for interview.
Start asking in end of M3. Also, plan to ask for 5 letters because at least one person will never get back to you or will take forever.
Some programs will wait until all the letters are in before inviting you for interview.
Start asking in end of M3. Also, plan to ask for 5 letters because at least one person will never get back to you or will take forever.
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Having all your letters in by July 1 is overkill. That means no letters from your fourth year rotations (maybe one, depending on your school). Yes, some programs will wait for a complete file before granting an interview, but the vast majority won't. Getting quality letters is far more important than having letters uploaded on day one.
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July 1?
I was under the impression ERAS is not open until September 15 for the 2012-2013 application cycle.
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Anyone have clarification on this? I can't find otherwise on the NRMP website.
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Sept 15. Don't have a link at the moment, but it's on the website.
