lost hundreds narcotics - cvs

[sosoo]

our store recently lost hundreds of narcotics (first time). it happened when we had a ton of floaters. the board is probably doing some investigation. do they usually slap a fine? how much?

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[Mad Jack]

Fine? Depending on the size of the diversion (because someone was clearly diverting meds if hundreds of pills are missing) they might be out for more than just a financial ding, but it really depends on the state.

 

[doublehh03]

our store recently lost hundreds of narcotics (first time). it happened when we had a ton of floaters. the board is probably doing some investigation. do they usually slap a fine? how much?

CVS went to electronic record keeping for C2s, and lock up pretty much most of the other controls. How does someone not know right away?

 

[genesis09]

Are they truly lost or was inventory incorrectly calculated? Who discovered the problem? The state board doesn't really get involved in situations like these. We need more information to say what might happen.

 

[Old Timer]

our store recently lost hundreds of narcotics (first time). it happened when we had a ton of floaters. the board is probably doing some investigation. do they usually slap a fine? how much?

Lost of 100's of Narcotic's

It's the plural that has me concerned. One NDC or more than one. Forget the board. Now the DEA will be visiting and you will get an anal probing. Bound to be unpleasant. Please provide more details. I also look at a record keeping issue. Order 300 of drug x scan in 600. Wahla, 300 short.....

 

[type b pharmD]

Lost of 100's of Narcotic's

It's the plural that has me concerned. One NDC or more than one. Forget the board. Now the DEA will be visiting and you will get an anal probing. Bound to be unpleasant. Please provide more details. I also look at a record keeping issue. Order 300 of drug x scan in 600. Wahla, 300 short.....

This . I get red flagged for losing 600 percocets , I call them back (corporate) with my full inventory modification record in hand .. turns out we never even had the pills in the first place it was electronic inventory ghosts .

That said , if you really lost hundreds of actual pills .. get with your boss and call your regional and your loss prevention , they will walk you through the process. I had a diversion issue a while back and I didn't even have to fill out 106 , LP just sent it to me to sign . If you are PIC you will need to file it appropriately and mail it to the DEA and the board but that's pretty much it.

If there is proof of a real scheme going on , dea/police/LP will find it and deal with it. If there isn't , then it is a cost of doing business, after a certain # of tablets or 106s collect at sbop or dea field office, they will speak with corporate and may come and question you.

When DEA shows up, you have little legal requirement to provide anything beyond records access ... Don't act shady or get weird , just call your supervisor and generally put it up the food chain.

 

[type b pharmD]

Also the only way your gonna get fined is if you were the PIC AND you were acting negligently or were participating in the diversion.

It is 99% of the time a flagrant act by an individual acting with criminal intent, or , the company itself has not put proper safety protocols in place .. in those cases either the criminal Rph or tech, or the company itself will be fined through a civil or criminal suit by the appropriate body.

 

[Old Timer]

Also the only way your gonna get fined is if you were the PIC AND you were acting negligently or were participating in the diversion..

Uh, that would be wrong. Please review US v Green Drugs where the US federal courts have held pharmacies and their managers are strictly libel for ANY shortages regardless of intent. They can fine you up to $25,000.00 per count.

The district court entered judgment in favor of the government. Accepting Kauffman's testimony, the court found that the shortages in the pharmacy's inventory were "inadvertent and innocent" and that the defendants acted in good faith. The court stated, however, that Congress had "imposed strict liability on retail pharmacists to account for Schedule Two substances," and "decreed that good faith is not a defense to inaccurate record keeping."

U.S. district court 3rd circuit.

So, if you are short 1 tablet. you could be fined 25k. They wouldn't waste their time, but they could......

 

[Wheresmyaricept]

Uh, that would be wrong. Please review US v Green Drugs where the US federal courts have held pharmacies and their managers are strictly libel for ANY shortages regardless of intent. They can fine you up to $25,000.00 per count.
U.S. district court 3rd circuit.

So, if you are short 1 tablet. you could be fined 25k. They wouldn't waste their time, but they could......

In recent unrelated news, the Obama administration unveiled a measure to eliminate the U.S. Deficit...


But in all honesty OP, if I were you, the first thing I would've done is actually double check the invoices vs quantities dispensed and make sure it all adds up, contact the supervisor and loss prevention. They have ways of handling things behind the scenes. Posting here won't do you any good. In fact you might get the "why did you wait" speech.

 

[NateRobinson]

HUNDREDS of narcotics....that is pure insanity. It doesn't matter if youre the PIC and this happened. The board knows you're not there 24/7 and **** can happen at any time. But, what they will look at is to see if you reported it within 24 hours of confirming a loss. This is the most important thing. You MUST fill out an initial notification within 24 hours of confirming a loss.

 

[Ackj]

Make sure they are really missing. I have had a few heart stopping moments when I open the drawer expecting to see X amount and find far less, only to see that our order of hydrocodone 5/325 was simply put away with oxy 5/325. A few other times Cardinal rejected an item from the 222 and whoever accepted the order didn't adjust that accordingly, so it appeared we were short that amount. Also be sure that a shortage somewhere isn't an overage somewhere else, ie, you're short 300 on the 5/325 but have an extra 300 7.5/325... it's likely a dispensing error.

If they really are missing, and especially if it's multiple drugs/NDCs, you've got a big problem on your hands. Run it up the chain of command ASAP.

 

[SClENCE]

If you can't attribute the loss to an obvious record keeping error then you should definitely follow your company's LP procedure immediately which should include submitting the appropriate DEA form for loss of controlled substance(s).

As long as you follow/have been following company protocol you should be okay.

 

[type b pharmD]

Uh, that would be wrong. Please review US v Green Drugs where the US federal courts have held pharmacies and their managers are strictly libel for ANY shortages regardless of intent. They can fine you up to $25,000.00 per count.
U.S. district court 3rd circuit.

So, if you are short 1 tablet. you could be fined 25k. They wouldn't waste their time, but they could......

Um did you even read the case? Basically proves my point.

Guys got fined $6000 for missing 10,000 tablets. . At an independent... Who tried to claim routine losses as a defense ...

Corporate would already have an agreement signed and sealed regarding **** like that. LP would already have contacted the Rph regarding chronic losses over time way before it got to 10,000 tablets.

Bookkeeping doesn't cause you to lose tablets. And the electronic bookkeeping at chains is way more than smart enough to catch chronic 'routine' losses before they would become an issue at this level.

The case ruling tells us:
If you make chronic lazy losses but are 'innocent' of malfeasance, you could get a slap on the wrist fine for losing 10k tablets ..

So how do y'all think it goes down at a big chain in various situations? LP or corporate settles some **** , if someone is guilty of something , they get what they deserve ...

 

[type b pharmD]

If you can't attribute the loss to an obvious record keeping error then you should definitely follow your company's LP procedure immediately which should include submitting the appropriate DEA form for loss of controlled substance(s).

As long as you follow/have been following company protocol you should be okay.

But also keep in mind that there are subtle record keeping errors as well, and that an entirely unexplained loss is not required to be reported if it constitutes less than x % of routine dispensing volume , per the DEA handbook and form 106 instructions.

There's really only 3 things that can be going on with controlled substances.. 2 types of real losses and 1 type of false loss... At a corporate retail, only 1 of these 3 even requires reporting , let alone personal liability.

1. Routine losses (miscounts, misdispensed, broken tablets, pills eaten by robots, damaged packages). This includes losses which are unexplainable but where there is no suspicion of foul play.

2. Theft or diversion losses. Must be reported when there is suspicion of foul play or when the qty lost at one time is substantial relative to the business volume. In this case , someone is going to be busted under criminal law. Hint: it's the person who stole the tablets.

3. False losses ... Ie pills aren't in an electronic logbook or a shelf where you thought they are, but no pills ever physically left the pharmacy unaccounted for.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Yeah, if you are missing hundreds of CII's, more than a fine is going to happen to someone.

I'll assume you are the PIC. You need to ascertain that the drugs are really missing. As others have mentioned go thorough your paperwork closely, check invoices and make sure they were signed (let's hope nobody at your place would sign an invoice for something they hadn't received.) Check for any inventory adjustments, who did them and why were they done. Check your whole pharmacy (make sure nobody stuck a bottle of Norco's in the ibuprofen section.....yes, careless stuff like this happens when pharmacies are busy-probably not likely since you are missing "hundreds" and not just 1 bottle, but I still recommend checking.) Check your expired section, to make sure that expired CII's weren't pulled and then not subtracted. If nothing else, you want to be able to tell the DEA & your LP all the steps you took to try to find the missing CII's. Your LP most likely has already checked inventory adjustments for suspiciousness, but if you are PIC you need to check them yourself.

 

[Old Timer]

Um did you even read the case? Basically proves my point.

Guys got fined $6000 for missing 10,000 tablets. . At an independent... Who tried to claim routine losses as a defense ...

Corporate would already have an agreement signed and sealed regarding **** like that. LP would already have contacted the Rph regarding chronic losses over time way before it got to 10,000 tablets.

Bookkeeping doesn't cause you to lose tablets. And the electronic bookkeeping at chains is way more than smart enough to catch chronic 'routine' losses before they would become an issue at this level.

The case ruling tells us:
If you make chronic lazy losses but are 'innocent' of malfeasance, you could get a slap on the wrist fine for losing 10k tablets ..

So how do y'all think it goes down at a big chain in various situations? LP or corporate settles some **** , if someone is guilty of something , they get what they deserve ...

No. you did not read the case. I was involved in the case and testified in federal court. The 10,000 tablets is what the government alleged. Not what was proven in court. The case showed and the court found there was no diversion and no criminal activity. Yet, they still found the pharmacy civilly liable. They used this to into small towns all over the country and extort money from pharmacies. You have strict liability to account for every tablet. There is no acceptable %. The word is significant loss and significant is not spelled out.

 

[sosoo]

i came back after a week off and the electronics inventory in qv were red for awhile. if we leave it red, the lp audit will be an automatic fail. so the PIC and all other pharmacists must have seen it. they checked inventory for everything else that was due, but they left these remains in red. so when i came back after a week off, i notice these in qv inventory. its a confirmed lost. i had to report the lost immediately. i don't know why the other pharmacists don't report them.

 

[SClENCE]

I can't believe the PIC hasn't reported it.

 

[maria1oh]

I was nervous today because I couldn't find hundreds of narcotics when I was floating. Turns out they had a safe in the far end of the pharmacy where they keep the overstock narcotics.

 

[owlegrad]

I was nervous today because I couldn't find hundreds of narcotics when I was floating. Turns out they had a safe in the far end of the pharmacy where they keep the overstock narcotics.

Ha! I had almost the exact same thing happen to me once. Would be nice if they somehow communicated pertinent info to floaters. In my case it wasn't even a safe, it was a locked cabinet built into an end-cap in the back, it's the only CVS I have seen with that setup.