Lots of free time in surgery rotation

[pharmer]

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Is anyone else's surger rotation like this. I get in to round on my patients about 5am (sometimes a little before sometimes a little after) and have them seen before the residents round at 6:30ish. Our attending never makes rounds with us in the morning so it is just the med students and residents. After rounds I go to scrub in (I'm on general surgery with a GI emphasis) on a surgery or two that I personally picked out the day before that sounded interesting. After a morning of retracting and sometimes getting to suture with no pimping what so ever my day for the most part is over. The residents just kind of go there own way without giving us students any input. So usually I find myself at the library reading until 5pm or so until I get a page from the resident saying there's nothing going on so I can go home. We have no clinic to attend and there is usually a lecture or 2 in the afternoon. I feel like I should be doing more than I am. I'm not complaining just somewhat in ahh after hearing all the horror stories about surgery clerkships and not being able to read. We have call q5 but we often don't get paged. Sometimes we don't have any surgeries scheduled so after rounding I spend form about 8am until 5pm in the library? Is there something I'm missing? Should I be actively seeking out scut?

 

[SLUser11]

I think your surgery schedule is more common then you'd think, but other people who are more prone to bitching would present that as "working" from 5am to 5pm, which will get you to around 80-90 hrs with calls. I noticed on 2 of my away rotations that not all services are busy enough to support 3-4+ students at a time.

It sounds boring, and it seems like your service is really slow. (Q: Are you at KU in Kansas City? If so, are residents fighting for cases/ are there lots of slow days? Something good to know with the ROL due in a month).

My suggestion is to use your free time to study for the shelf/next days surgeries, etc, and NOT seek out "scutwork." That's just dumb. However, if you're really interested in surgery, shadow the intern or resident for the entire day instead of heading for the library. At least then you'd get a good picture of what a resident's day is like. Also, if you're eager for the OR, see if you can scrub in on subspecialty cases (0ff your service) that aren't covered by a resident

 

[pharmer]

I think your surgery schedule is more common then you'd think, but other people who are more prone to bitching would present that as "working" from 5am to 5pm, which will get you to around 80-90 hrs with calls. I noticed on 2 of my away rotations that not all services are busy enough to support 3-4+ students at a time.

It sounds boring, and it seems like your service is really slow. (Q: Are you at KU in Kansas City? If so, are residents fighting for cases/ are there lots of slow days? Something good to know with the ROL due in a month).

My suggestion is to use your free time to study for the shelf/next days surgeries, etc, and NOT seek out "scutwork." That's just dumb. However, if you're really interested in surgery, shadow the intern or resident for the entire day instead of heading for the library. At least then you'd get a good picture of what a resident's day is like. Also, if you're eager for the OR, see if you can scrub in on subspecialty cases (0ff your service) that aren't covered by a resident

Yeah I'm at KU. I think that I'm on a fairly busy service. The residents are by no means fighting for cases. There are 3 attendings that are on the GI service of General surgery. They are usually doing their cases at the same time in different OR's so most cases are usually done by 1pm. Sometimes there is an add on. Friday seems to be the day no surgeries are scheduled but there is usually an add on or two. For the most part I think the residents, attendings, and case loads are very solid here at KU. I just wonder about myself 😳

 

[bulldog]

Yeah I'm at KU. I think that I'm on a fairly busy service. The residents are by no means fighting for cases. There are 3 attendings that are on the GI service of General surgery. They are usually doing their cases at the same time in different OR's so most cases are usually done by 1pm. Sometimes there is an add on. Friday seems to be the day no surgeries are scheduled but there is usually an add on or two. For the most part I think the residents, attendings, and case loads are very solid here at KU. I just wonder about myself 😳

u've got a pretty nice schedule. take advantage of it to study for the shelf exams. while on general surg, i was often there from 4:30ish-8pm M-F, and 4:30ish to noon on one weekend day. absolutely no time to study since always fatigued. scrubbed in 1-2 times a day. Usually rounded on 3-4 patients.

 

[sophiejane]

My schedule for surgery was also pretty easy. I think people like to brag about how hard they work on rotations, when in fact, the majority of the day is spent running around doing scut, or waiting for stuff to happen. The actual learning time is pretty small for most people, I think.

If most students round on 3-4 patients and see 1-2 surgeries a day and attend 1-2 lectures/morning report, then that's exactly what I had at a small community hospital, but I had no weekends and no call, and many days I scrubbed on >2 surgeries/day. I was first assist on >60 cases, often helped close/suture and did 2 I&D's pretty much by myself. I had 2 clinic days/week and saw a wide range of cases in the OR, including triple bypass with valve replacement, heart caths, thyroidectomy, spinal laminectomy, bowel resection, and breast mass excision with sentinel node biopsy, along with the countless lap choles and appendectomies and hernia repairs. On ortho I assisted on total hips, total knees, arthroscopy, and hand surgery. I was the only student on my service, and I had the attending pretty much to myself most of the day.

You don't have to have 14 hour days to get a lot from a surgery rotation. You may not be able to brag about how many hours you worked, but your experience can be just as valuable (if not more so, because you aren't constantly exhausted).

 

[carrigallen]

My schedule is pretty much like that too. At this point, I feel I can learn more by reading and then seeing the cases than following the intern around.