Love my Job - BUT VHCOL making it Extremely Tough!!

[anonperson]

While I do agree with you to an extent (and have always felt that the obsession with real estate in the US is a bit bizarre), I also think there is no reason on god’s green earth why someone making $600k+ a year in this country shouldn’t be able to buy a house if they want to…unless they’re living in one of these insane areas like California. In much of this land, $600k a year is a very high salary.

OP is choosing to live in one of the most expensive areas of CA. No different than them wanting to live in the UES in New York City.

There are plenty of reasonably affordable areas in CA they could live if they wanted. CA is a huge state.

OP should just move to a different area. Too much tech money makes the area unaffordable for a physician. We can't compete with the RSUs from FAANG companies.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[soccerboy2288]

Ultimately comes down to whats important to you: Location, nice home, early retirement, lifestyle, etc. With a physician salary, when choosing to live in a VHCOL area, one must sacrifice something. I know cuz I live in SoCal.

Buying too much home can be a big mistake financially as it is the single biggest purchase in your life.

How Much House Can I Afford? | White Coat Investor

Knowing your budget when buying a house can help you find the perfect home you can afford for years to come.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

 

[Ezekiel2517]

The bay area is a huge region. There are other parts of the bay area that are more affordable than the peninsula and south bay. I rejected a job offer years ago in the south bay solely bc of the cost of real estate there. I know folks who work at some of the south bay kaiser sites who live in cities as far as Walnut Creek and commute. Personally, I could not do this so I chose a position elsewhere in the bay area w/ lower home prices. So, if you want to remain in the bay area, you can either commute or find a different position in another group in a different part of the bay. Also, based on what I've seen, 600k is on the lower side for total comp in the bay area in general. You can make more than this in other parts of the bay, including the south bay/peninsula.

 

[BLADEMDA]

All I can say is this seems like a poor financial plan for the future especially with the cost of raising children these days. But, poor decisions are what defines the USA these days across the country. I fully support your right to live in the most expensive area of the USA for an average, non wage adjusted salary of an Anesthesiologist. But, that decision will have implications for your financial future and your family over the next 2 decades. The only thing I can think of is that 3 million dollar home becomes worth 6 million (hard to believe) so you can retire before 65. Good Luck.

 

[GassYous]

All I can say is this seems like a poor financial plan for the future especially with the cost of raising children these days. But, poor decisions are what defines the USA these days across the country. I fully support your right to live in the most expensive area of the USA for an average, non wage adjusted salary of an Anesthesiologist. But, that decision will have implications for your financial future and your family over the next 2 decades. The only thing I can think of is that 3 million dollar home becomes worth 6 million (hard to believe) so you can retire before 65. Good Luck.

The thing is that you still need a place to stay and other places will probably have appreciated just as much. There should be a breaking point. Tech is having many layoffs as well.

 

[pgg]

It’s available anywhere else in America too. I live in rural Illinois and I can get as much of this farm to table fresh produce as I want. You don’t have to live in one of the most expensive locales in America to get access to this.

I'll throw out another obvious observation -

There ain't no farms, organic or otherwise, in the SF bay area. Everything is trucked in. Everything. You get out a bit toward wine country and there's some stuff besides grapes and apples, but it's not this unique organic everything mecca.

The rest of the country trucks in the same produce you can buy in SF. Whether the stuff sits on a truck for 6 hours winding through bay area traffic, or sits on a different truck or on a plane for 12 hours leaving the state ... it's the same stuff. Except less expensive.

Now, I'll concede that one of the things I miss most about California was being surrounded by orchards and farmland, and being able to stop at any one of 10 farmer-run roadside stands within 10 minutes of my house. And the weekly farmers market in town was terrific. But I lived in the central valley (which was cheaper but had a different set of issues). None of that exists in the bay area.

I live in a similar community now, except prettier, with better air quality, and somewhat less farm variety, in the opposite side of the country. But I can still get just about anything. And eat it while looking at the 15 acres surrounding my gigantic, newly renovated, sub-$1M house.

I'll also concede that seafood is another story. Quality drops sharply as you get away from the ocean. But pretty good fresh stuff is available elsewhere, if you pay for it.


If living in SF is worth it to you,becaus of restaurants or culture or geography or climate, that's OK. Some people want to live in New York. Some organisms burrow around in the lower intestines of rats and that's OK too.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I'll throw out another obvious observation -

There ain't no farms, organic or otherwise, in the SF bay area. Everything is trucked in. Everything. You get out a bit toward wine country and there's some stuff besides grapes and apples, but it's not this unique organic everything mecca.

The rest of the country trucks in the same produce you can buy in SF. Whether the stuff sits on a truck for 6 hours winding through bay area traffic, or sits on a different truck or on a plane for 12 hours leaving the state ... it's the same stuff. Except less expensive.

Now, I'll concede that one of the things I miss most about California was being surrounded by orchards and farmland, and being able to stop at any one of 10 farmer-run roadside stands within 10 minutes of my house. And the weekly farmers market in town was terrific. But I lived in the central valley (which was cheaper but had a different set of issues). None of that exists in the bay area.

I live in a similar community now, except prettier, with better air quality, and someone less farm variety, in the opposite side of the country. But I can still get just about anything. And eat it while looking at the 15 acres surrounding my gigantic, newly renovated, sub-$1M house.

I'll also concede that seafood is another story. Quality drops sharply as you get away from the ocean. But pretty good fresh stuff is available elsewhere, if you pay for it.


If living in SF is worth it to you,becaus of restaurants or culture or geography or climate, that's OK. Some people want to live in New York. Some organisms burrow around in the lower intestines of rats and that's OK too.

Hell, in IL I can go to Saturday morning farmers markets and buy potatoes from the exact farmer who dug those out of the ground.

Seafood you can get elsewhere too…I used to live in southern AL and I had very good access to fresh Gulf seafood…and it wasn’t insanely priced.

You hit on what the Cali appeal really is, which is a culture and a vibe combined with climate. And I agree it is highly pleasant. But my goodness, is it worth $2m for a basic house? I think not…

 

[IDGARA]

Hello all!

About 2.5 years in practice now. I love my job. It has a great breath of cases, great colleagues, great staff, etc. I make decent money, total comp is about $600k (total comp including 401k, insurance, etc) a year and the buy in was almost insignificant. I just don't know that we will ever make it financially here.

My wife and I save about $12k a month after maxing out our 401ks, spending $7k on rent, and other expenses. Children are on the way and we want a house. We have saved up over $250k. Even these types of houses are far, far out of our price range right now.

932 Cherrystone Dr, Los Gatos, CA 95032 | realtor.com®

We cannot compete with the tech money, venture capital, wealth management directors, tech consulting, corporate law, finance partners in the area.

I know that no one goes into medicine for the money (myself included) but I never thought it would be this hard to just survive in an area.

Should we move? Does anyone make it work in these VHCOL areas. All my partners are older and bought in years before the market got this bad.

Thank you!

You're saving $12k/month after maxing out 401ks? And you're worried about not making it financially?!

You can't have everything. It sounds like you've got a good job, that pays well, in a nice area, and you're going to have kids. Home ownership is expensive and not always the best thing to do financially. I think you're already getting a ton out of where you're living and just have to save for a few more years if you're dead set on owning a house in the Bay Area.

 

[nimbus]

The thing is that you still need a place to stay and other places will probably have appreciated just as much. There should be a breaking point. Tech is having many layoffs as well.

He could retire to Cleveland

 

[finalpsychyear]

I think OP should go ahead and do it now since he is dead set on living there before prices go up. Some people like the paycheck to paycheck mentality. All this talk is like trying to convince a resident why buying a ferrari didn't make sense. He still did it and the start to many bad financial decisions.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

He could retire to Cleveland

Cleveland is a decently priced and pleasant place to live. It’s really been cleaned up over the last 25 years or so. I did college and fellowship there…don’t knock it…it’s way better than renting a ****ty house for $7k a month.

 

[nimbus]

Cleveland is a decently priced and pleasant place to live. It’s really been cleaned up over the last 25 years or so. I did college and fellowship there…don’t knock it…it’s way better than renting a ****ty house for $7k a month.

I was half jesting. I grew up there and still visit family there twice a year. I think it’s pretty nice. Retiring to Cleveland wouldn’t be the worst fate

 

[GoBeers]

he is maxing 401k, adding to taxable accounts, and then saving additional 12k a month.
OP is doing more than just fine other then being a multimillion dollar home owner in pac heights, la jolla, lido/balboa island, monterey/carmel ( like the rest of us)

 

[Ezekiel2517]

Watching the NFL playoffs this past weekend and seeing these sub zero temps all across the country Kansas City, Buffalo, etc… I feel blessed to live where I live. 60 degrees and sunny today. Different strokes for different folks. I know ppl who dish out 4-5k+ a month for tiny studios and 1BR’s in Manhattan. I don’t think millions of ppl are idiots lol. What appeals to one person may not be equally appealing to another. And no, most homes in CA do not cost 2-3M

 

[Coffee PRN]

Cleveland is a decently priced and pleasant place to live. It’s really been cleaned up over the last 25 years or so. I did college and fellowship there…don’t knock it…it’s way better than renting a ****ty house for $7k a month.

I like Columbus a lot more

 

[nimbus]

he is maxing 401k, adding to taxable accounts, and then saving additional 12k a month.
OP is doing more than just fine other then being a multimillion dollar home owner in pac heights, la jolla, lido/balboa island, monterey/carmel ( like the rest of us)

Those used to be doctor neighborhoods a generation ago but they are no longer typical doctor neighborhoods. But there’s absolutely no reason anybody needs to live in the most expensive zip codes in a given region. In fact there are many downsides to it beyond the cost.

 

[nimbus]

Watching the NFL playoffs this past weekend and seeing these sub zero temps all across the country Kansas City, Buffalo, etc… I feel blessed to live where I live. 60 degrees and sunny today. Different strokes for different folks. I know ppl who dish out 4-5k+ a month for tiny studios and 1BR’s in Manhattan. I don’t think millions of ppl are idiots lol. What appeals to one person may not be equally appealing to another. And no, most homes in CA do not cost 2-3M

I took my dog to the beach on Saturday and Sunday. He’s still young with a lot of energy so he needs long walks. I had to wear a windbreaker because it’s windy at the beach.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Watching the NFL playoffs this past weekend and seeing these sub zero temps all across the country Kansas City, Buffalo, etc… I feel blessed to live where I live. 60 degrees and sunny today. Different strokes for different folks. I know ppl who dish out 4-5k+ a month for tiny studios and 1BR’s in Manhattan. I don’t think millions of ppl are idiots lol. What appeals to one person may not be equally appealing to another. And no, most homes in CA do not cost 2-3M

Again, you can get that environment and climate for less $$$ elsewhere. Carolinas. Gulf Coast etc etc. This is not unique to Cali.

 

[GravelRider]

I do think OP should move because he doesn’t have any ties to the area like family or a spouse’s job. Amazing restaurants and locations with great outdoor access can be had for a lot cheaper. If he had family in the area then I would say it may be worth staying in the area. However, OP is saving at a pretty decent rate while living in an expensive area. If he is really in love with the area and the job, maybe it’s worth trying to buy a house there?

I would not buy a house unless I had a 20% down payment and at least 6 month emergency fund. That probably means saving at least $500-600k before getting serious about buying a house. OP should probably sit down and crunch a lot of numbers before mentally committing to the region. Sometimes its numbers on a page that will shine a light on the reality of the situation there.

I would also ask for a cost of living raise.

 

[nimbus]

Again, you can get that environment and climate for less $$$ elsewhere. Carolinas. Gulf Coast etc etc. This is not unique to Cali.

True. Unless you’re Canadian. Coldest I’ve ever been was Banff/Lake Louise in February but the aurora made it worthwhile.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I like Columbus a lot more

Yeah Columbus is cleaner looking and less “gritty urban”. I actually like Indianapolis more than either.

 

[aneftp]

One of my former colleagues sold her 2 million dollar beach front Florida homes to move back to California (LA) area to live in her more modest 2.5 million dollar home in seal beach/surfside area California. Half the space. 1/4 the lot. Not even directly on the beach either. A couple of blocks away but close enough for her.

She’s happy living in California. More culture. More things to do. Can be hiking in the mountains in the morning. Be at the beach in the afternoon. You don’t get that in Florida.

But she doesn’t have any kids and likes to jet set everywhere. So doesn’t have other family expenses and husband is second income who probably brings in another 200k in income

 

[gaspusher]

One of my former colleagues sold her 2 million dollar beach front Florida homes to move back to California (LA) area to live in her more modest 2.5 million dollar home in seal beach/surfside area California. Half the space. 1/4 the lot. Not even directly on the beach either. A couple of blocks away but close enough for her.

She’s happy living in California. More culture. More things to do. Can be hiking in the mountains in the morning. Be at the beach in the afternoon. You don’t get that in Florida.

But she doesn’t have any kids and likes to jet set everywhere. So doesn’t have other family expenses and husband is second income who probably brings in another 200k in income

Yes, it’s the outdoor activities, which are free, that really drew us in and kept us here this long.

I have to disagree with you though. Florida is not cheaper than California. In Florida you cannot get a beach front home for $2,000,000. I think you mentioned Naples earlier (or someone else did). A beach front home is more like $20,000,000! Miami and Palm Beach must be even worse.

In Florida, from my understanding, private schools are the norm for upper middle class. Where I live now, the public schools are among the best in the nation because of taxes. That’s $600k per child when you think about it!

While Florida doesn’t have income tax, I believe your property tax is much higher. Doesn’t matter for me cause I can’t buy hahaha.

As always, there is no financial value to living on a coast in the US. If we go down the value route we will move to the Midwest. However, then we will need to be taking a lot more vacations to make up for that, and those expenses will add up. Also public vs private school issue comes back.

I don’t think there is any perfect community. There also isn’t a perfect job, but I really like my current job.

Thank you all for your wonderful helpful comments. It’s really helped to put things in perspective.

 

[pgg]

It takes a special kind of foolishness (or obscene losses-don't-matter wealth) to buy beachfront property in Florida these days.

 

[aneftp]

Yes, it’s the outdoor activities, which are free, that really drew us in and kept us here this long.

I have to disagree with you though. Florida is not cheaper than California. In Florida you cannot get a beach front home for $2,000,000. I think you mentioned Naples earlier (or someone else did). A beach front home is more like $20,000,000! Miami and Palm Beach must be even worse.

In Florida, from my understanding, private schools are the norm for upper middle class. Where I live now, the public schools are among the best in the nation because of taxes. That’s $600k per child when you think about it!

While Florida doesn’t have income tax, I believe your property tax is much higher. Doesn’t matter for me cause I can’t buy hahaha.

As always, there is no financial value to living on a coast in the US. If we go down the value route we will move to the Midwest. However, then we will need to be taking a lot more vacations to make up for that, and those expenses will add up. Also public vs private school issue comes back.

I don’t think there is any perfect community. There also isn’t a perfect job, but I really like my current job.

Thank you all for your wonderful helpful comments. It’s really helped to put things in perspective.

Florida is a long state. I live in Florida for a number of years but have tons of family in Southern California including a brother and a sister who live there long time. I think I’m very verse in real estate in both areas.

My property tax in Florida is cheaper as well due to homestead and portability. I literally pay 12k property taxes on my 2.2-2.4 million dollar home. That I purchased 3 plus years ago. Again it depends on lots of factors including the county u reside in. My friend with similar size home in adjacent county pays a whopping 30k in property taxes on 3 million dollar home 15 miles away.

Again. There is more to Florida is Miami to Palm beach in terms of coastal property. From the west side to the panhandle.

The east coast runs all the way up to Jacksonville area as well. Beach front property ranges widely throughout the state.

You are correct about public schools. Many in Florida are subpar compared to blue states. But somehow Florida now has the top ranked public university school in the USA due to decrease tuition and many in state students choosing to remain in state

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Yes, it’s the outdoor activities, which are free, that really drew us in and kept us here this long.

I have to disagree with you though. Florida is not cheaper than California. In Florida you cannot get a beach front home for $2,000,000. I think you mentioned Naples earlier (or someone else did). A beach front home is more like $20,000,000! Miami and Palm Beach must be even worse.

In Florida, from my understanding, private schools are the norm for upper middle class. Where I live now, the public schools are among the best in the nation because of taxes. That’s $600k per child when you think about it!

While Florida doesn’t have income tax, I believe your property tax is much higher. Doesn’t matter for me cause I can’t buy hahaha.

As always, there is no financial value to living on a coast in the US. If we go down the value route we will move to the Midwest. However, then we will need to be taking a lot more vacations to make up for that, and those expenses will add up. Also public vs private school issue comes back.

I don’t think there is any perfect community. There also isn’t a perfect job, but I really like my current job.

Thank you all for your wonderful helpful comments. It’s really helped to put things in perspective.

You clearly have never been to Florida. Half the state is basically Alabama, with bargain basement prices. (There is a reason Ron Desantis is the governor of that state, and it’s not because of Naples, Palm Beach, Miami etc.) You seem to have a taste for very ritzy areas of the country in which to live.

Where I live in the Midwest, you can put your kid in a local “classical” private school for like $2k a year - or you can choose one of the local Catholic schools for like $5k/year. That’s not even close to $600k a kid for school (unless you’re going to go overboard and ship your kid off to some elite boarding school…that said, Illinois has a public boarding STEM focused school (IMSA) which is excellent and also FREE for IL residents!) The amount of money you save living in the Midwest will pay for a ****load of vacations. That’s part of why I really love living where I do now - I actually have money to do things, because my paychecks aren’t being consumed to pay for disgustingly overpriced housing.

As for your comment about not being able to get a beachfront home in FL for less than $2M: in-laws live near Pensacola. Here is one of many examples near them for way less than that: 7819 White Sands Blvd, Navarre, FL 32566 | realtor.com®

I think you need to change your assumptions about a number of things with regard to cost elsewhere in America…this is what the psychologists call “reality testing”. Your vision of everything is totally tainted by the cost of living in one of the most grossly, outrageously expensive locales in the country. It’s not like that out here in the rest of the country, I swear…

 

[triggermaster]

Florida is a long state. I live in Florida for a number of years but have tons of family in Southern California including a brother and a sister who live there long time. I think I’m very verse in real estate in both areas.

My property tax in Florida is cheaper as well due to homestead and portability. I literally pay 12k property taxes on my 2.2-2.4 million dollar home. That I purchased 3 plus years ago. Again it depends on lots of factors including the county u reside in. My friend with similar size home in adjacent county pays a whopping 30k in property taxes on 3 million dollar home 15 miles away.

Again. There is more to Florida is Miami to Palm beach in terms of coastal property. From the west side to the panhandle.

The east coast runs all the way up to Jacksonville area as well. Beach front property ranges widely throughout the state.

You are correct about public schools. Many in Florida are subpar compared to blue states. But somehow Florida now has the top ranked public university school in the USA due to decrease tuition and many in state students choosing to remain in state

What country are you from if you don’t mind sharing?

 

[abolt18]

What country are you from if you don’t mind sharing?

Lol not this again.

 

[abolt18]

Yes, it’s the outdoor activities, which are free, that really drew us in and kept us here this long.

I have to disagree with you though. Florida is not cheaper than California. In Florida you cannot get a beach front home for $2,000,000. I think you mentioned Naples earlier (or someone else did). A beach front home is more like $20,000,000! Miami and Palm Beach must be even worse.

In Florida, from my understanding, private schools are the norm for upper middle class. Where I live now, the public schools are among the best in the nation because of taxes. That’s $600k per child when you think about it!

While Florida doesn’t have income tax, I believe your property tax is much higher. Doesn’t matter for me cause I can’t buy hahaha.

As always, there is no financial value to living on a coast in the US. If we go down the value route we will move to the Midwest. However, then we will need to be taking a lot more vacations to make up for that, and those expenses will add up. Also public vs private school issue comes back.

I don’t think there is any perfect community. There also isn’t a perfect job, but I really like my current job.

Thank you all for your wonderful helpful comments. It’s really helped to put things in perspective.

You don't inherently have to send your kids to private school if you move somewhere else. There are phenomenal public schools all over the country. Honestly, my kids are going to public school and their school completely blows my experience growing up out of the water. We are as Midwest as it gets now, but I grew up in the rocky mountains, went to "mediocre" public schools and have never felt that I missed out on anything.

Anywhere you go is going to have the good schools and bad schools, choose where you live accordingly. Living in a nicer neighborhood will likely cost a lot less (in normal parts of the country) than paying for 12 years of private school.

 

[anonperson]

Yes, it’s the outdoor activities, which are free, that really drew us in and kept us here this long.

I have to disagree with you though. Florida is not cheaper than California. In Florida you cannot get a beach front home for $2,000,000. I think you mentioned Naples earlier (or someone else did). A beach front home is more like $20,000,000! Miami and Palm Beach must be even worse.

In Florida, from my understanding, private schools are the norm for upper middle class. Where I live now, the public schools are among the best in the nation because of taxes. That’s $600k per child when you think about it!

While Florida doesn’t have income tax, I believe your property tax is much higher. Doesn’t matter for me cause I can’t buy hahaha.

As always, there is no financial value to living on a coast in the US. If we go down the value route we will move to the Midwest. However, then we will need to be taking a lot more vacations to make up for that, and those expenses will add up. Also public vs private school issue comes back.

I don’t think there is any perfect community. There also isn’t a perfect job, but I really like my current job.

Thank you all for your wonderful helpful comments. It’s really helped to put things in perspective.

All states have their issues.

I know there is a lot of CA bashing in this thread but it is a unique and pretty great state.

You seem to be realistic in your goals. Buying a house in Northern California may not be in the cards with your current compensation but if that's not a deal breaker, keep doing what you're doing .

It seems like you are saving a decent amount of cash yearly also.

The other option, if you are set on buying, is diverting more cash temporarily into your immediate savings and foregoing maximizing your 401k contributions etc to maximize your down payment . Not ideal by any means but not unheard of in a very hot housing market.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

All states have their issues.

I know there is a lot of CA bashing in this thread but it is a unique and pretty great state.

You seem to be realistic in your goals. Buying a house in Northern California may not be in the cards with your current compensation but if that's not a deal breaker, keep doing what you're doing .

It seems like you are saving a decent amount of cash yearly also.

The other option, if you are set on buying, is diverting more cash temporarily into your immediate savings and foregoing maximizing your 401k contributions etc to maximize your down payment . Not ideal by any means but not unheard of in a very hot housing market.

I’m always surprised at the lengths people will go to to rationalize living in places like this.

Is Cali really THAT great?

(This is not an “all states have their issues” thing, this is a “Cali is insanely overpriced and OP should choose a better place to live” thing.)

 

[pgg]

I’m always surprised at the lengths people will go to to rationalize living in places like this.

Is Cali really THAT great?

(This is not an “all states have their issues” thing, this is a “Cali is insanely overpriced and OP should choose a better place to live” thing.)

Some people also have to consider other factors. It's one thing for a white guy like me with the standard conservative-stamp-of-approval nuclear family to move out to rural America. Not everybody gets the same welcome in such places.

I do wholeheartedly agree though that if you need to live in a big city, there are many better options than the SF bay area (even within CA).

 

[DesiredMemberName?]

There’s some interesting psychology at play in this thread. Folks who live in VHCOL chime in with their opinion, but folks who have made the choice to live in LCOL places just can’t seem to let it go.

It’s almost as if making the smarter economic decision to live in a cheaper place comes with a need to justify why it’s actually a much wiser decision to everybody else. (And to one’s self?)

 

[dozitgetchahi]

There’s some interesting psychology at play in this thread. Folks who live in VHCOL chime in with their opinion, but folks who have made the choice to live in LCOL places just can’t seem to let it go.

It’s almost as if making the smarter economic decision to live in a cheaper place comes with a need to justify why it’s actually a much wiser decision to everybody else. (And to one’s self?)

I think a lot of doctors make poor financial decisions in this regard. Also, it’s a cultural thing among doctors that everyone seems to think they HAVE to live in the biggest, most expensive hip trendy cities. It’s an upper middle class philosophy that I personally find silly. I’ve tried living in both, and semi rural America was much more livable. Trust me, I have no desire to return to the city and sit in traffic for hours while paying $5k for a rental.

OP started the thread by saying “boy it sure is expensive to live where I live!”There are cheaper cities that are really just as good. I just think it’s a big blind spot among doctors that needs to change, personally.

 

[repititionition]

I see no problem using housing in VHCOL areas as a major part of your retirement plan.

Step-up basis for your heirs means that even if you reverse mortgage in retirement, whatever equity you have in the house is a very tax-efficient inheritance vehicle.

If you don’t need to reverse mortgage, you may be providing your kids a foothold in a real estate market that would otherwise be unattainable.

 

[triggermaster]

I think a lot of doctors make poor financial decisions in this regard. Also, it’s a cultural thing among doctors that everyone seems to think they HAVE to live in the biggest, most expensive hip trendy cities. It’s an upper middle class philosophy that I personally find silly. I’ve tried living in both, and semi rural America was much more livable. Trust me, I have no desire to return to the city and sit in traffic for hours while paying $5k for a rental.

OP started the thread by saying “boy it sure is expensive to live where I live!”There are cheaper cities that are really just as good. I just think it’s a big blind spot among doctors that needs to change, personally.

I mean, just because tech nerds dress like Blippi doesn’t make the Bay Area hip, it makes them kind of sad posers.

 

[aneftp]

Look. If there is Apple retail store and Best Buy within 15 min of me. I can live there. Having a Walmart and target nearby wont do it for me. That’s my only requirement. It’s very simple.

 

[POW16]

At the end of the day, personal finance is personal. You and your SO need to have a long conversation about priorities and where you see yourself in the next 5-10 years. You also don't have to move to one part of the country and live there until you die. My only suggestion : rent for the first year wherever (and if) you move to make sure you like your group and the area.

 

[pgg]

There’s some interesting psychology at play in this thread. Folks who live in VHCOL chime in with their opinion, but folks who have made the choice to live in LCOL places just can’t seem to let it go.

It’s almost as if making the smarter economic decision to live in a cheaper place comes with a need to justify why it’s actually a much wiser decision to everybody else. (And to one’s self?)

I don't understand.

Are you really asking why people with good financial sense (the LCOL cohort) are responding to a request for financial advice in a very bad set of circumstances with opinions tilted toward altering those circumstances?

Maybe if the people living in LCOL areas were starting threads asking for advice on city dining or fine art museum memberships you'd see the VHCOL people answering more enthusiastically.

 

[cchoukal]

I love how much flame the OP is getting for liking fresh produce... I live in SF and I was telling my wife (who grew up here) about this thread as we walked through Whole Foods talking about what trash WF produce is. I don't know, maybe we're brainwashed, but if the failsafe on fresh food in flyover country is Whole Foods, I'm not buying it. We are farmers' market types, spend a lot of time outdoors, and have family here, so our circumstances are a little different. We have friends who are actual billionaires who split their year between LA and Colorado. When in Colorado, they have all their produce shipped in and even with all those resources, they say it isn't like being home where everything is right off the truck. The other day our kids (3 yr old twins) were being ****s so we had to keep them out all day. We started with a run in the jogging stroller through Golden Gate Park. They danced with a couple musicians who had set up shop in the car-free zone that has sprung up, and climbed on the public art. We scored some almond croissant at Tartine. On a whim, we hopped the train to Ocean Beach and let them run their aggression out in the sand dunes. They made themselves fuzzy slippers out of the thick ocean foam and laughed their assess off for an hour. And this was on a Tuesday. It's not that you CAN'T get that stuff elsewhere, but... And not being from here, it took me a LONG time to get over my cynicism, and preferences are preferences, but it really is better living here.

So to the OP and the other CA acolytes, you let your flags fly, man; you have my support to blow your retirement living here. Life is long and things happen. Maybe you inherit something, maybe your preferences change down the line.

All that being said, however, you have chosen not just an expensive region (the Bay Area), but one of the most expensive zip codes in the world (Los Gatos), and there is a LOT of room to be just as coastal for a LOT less. Someone mentioned Marin, which isn't exactly cheap, but for $2M you can get a house in a good school district that is architecturally and aesthetically way less vomit-inducing as the one you showed. I wouldn't live in that house if someone paid me $2.9M.

 

[nimbus]

Many of us have had opportunities to live in LCOL, MCOL, HCOL, and VHCOL areas and are able to make an informed decision that matches our preferences.

 

[nimbus]

I love how much flame the OP is getting for liking fresh produce... I live in SF and I was telling my wife (who grew up here) about this thread as we walked through Whole Foods talking about what trash WF produce is. don't know, maybe we're brainwashed, but if the failsafe on fresh food in flyover country is Whole Foods, I'm not buying it. We are farmers' market types, spend a lot of time outdoors, and have family here, so our circumstances are a little different. We have friends who are actual billionaires who split their year between LA and Colorado. When in Colorado, they have all their produce shipped in and even with all those resources, they say it isn't like being home where everything is right off the truck. The other day our kids (3 yr old twins) were being ****s so we had to keep the out all day. We started with a run in the jogging stroller through Golden Gate Park. They danced with a couple musicians who had set up shop in the car-free zone that has sprung up, and climbed on the public art. We scored some almond croissant at Tartine. On a whim, we hopped the train to Ocean Beach and let them run their aggression out in the sand dunes. They made themselves fuzzy slippers out of the thick ocean foam and laughed their assess off for an hour. And this was on a Tuesday. It's not that you CAN'T get that stuff elsewhere, but... And not being from here, it took me a LONG time to get over my cynicism, and preferences are preferences, but it really is better living here.

So to the OP and the other CA acolytes, you let your flags fly, man; you have my support to blow your retirement living here. Life is long and things happen. Maybe you inherit something, maybe your preferences change down the line.

All that being said, however, you have chosen not just an expensive region (the Bay Area), but one of the most expensive zip codes in the world (Los Gatos), and there is a LOT of room to be just as coastal for a LOT less. Someone mentioned Marin, which isn't exactly cheap, but for $2M you can get a house in a good school district that is architecturally and aesthetically way less vomit-inducing as the one you showed. I wouldn't live in that house if someone paid me $2.9M.

Do you have a hookup for Zuck’s Kauai raised, macadamia fed Wagyu?

 

[Hoya11]

There’s some interesting psychology at play in this thread. Folks who live in VHCOL chime in with their opinion, but folks who have made the choice to live in LCOL places just can’t seem to let it go.

It’s almost as if making the smarter economic decision to live in a cheaper place comes with a need to justify why it’s actually a much wiser decision to everybody else. (And to one’s self?)

Lol isn’t that how it always is ?

Everyone thinks their decision is the best decision . It takes an open mind to realize others may have just as valid preferences that are different from yours.

There are also a subset of people who are content to live in a corn field and don’t value culture .. is that decision wrong ? Whose to say ?

Personally I think it’s a balance. On one side you have culture and the other is financial. Any extreme one way or the other is not a good decision IMO. And here , SF Bay Area is so extremely financially detrimental , the cool culture just doesn’t make up for it - in the minds of the majority of folks I think

 

[cchoukal]

Do you have a hookup for Zuck’s Kauai raised, macadamia fed Wagyu?

No but we do get in on a farm-share. This week it was beef brisket, root vegetables, and bitter greens. Made for a sick dinner with our fellow twin-toddler parents last night.

 

[nimbus]

There is some financial sense to never owning your own home, renting forever. It's not something I could do for many reasons, mostly social but also I think it's hardwired into me from my European roots but it's certainly smart economically...

It really makes sense if you are lucky enough to have a rent controlled apartment in Manhattan.

Her Sculptures Were Ignored for 33 Years. Then She Got a New Roommate.

Hanna Eshel did not succeed in the New York art world. Her only reliable exhibit space was her own loft. But a musician in search of a home changed that.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Maz777]

Unless you have family ties to the Bay Area (and have small kids), get out ASAP before you get any more entrenched. Kids will greatly increase your expenditures.

3mil for a starter home is a no go. That house is very underwhelming. You'll never retire. You'll outgrow it when the kids get older. If you're going to stay, figure out which commute is most tolerable to you and get a nicer and cheaper house farther out (with a better backyard). I lived in the Bay Area for many years. The food sucked and definitely wasn't any better (or fresher) than other places I have lived. Get out of that brainwashed mentality first and foremost.

 

[agammaglobulin]

Something that’s been touched on but not addressed - it’s not fun to live around people who are all wealthier (or poorer) than you. Especially once you have kids and they expect to be doing a lot of the same things/getting the same items as their friends. Said another way - it’s nice to live in a community that’s relatively in the same financial situation as you.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

I love how much flame the OP is getting for liking fresh produce... I live in SF and I was telling my wife (who grew up here) about this thread as we walked through Whole Foods talking about what trash WF produce is. I don't know, maybe we're brainwashed, but if the failsafe on fresh food in flyover country is Whole Foods, I'm not buying it.

You’re literally the first person to even mention Whole Foods in this thread.

Surely you can’t think California is the only place to get fresh produce in the US?

I really don’t care where people live but OP did ask a question and the answer as a single income physician household is “you can have anything you want, but not everything you want.”

 

[GravelRider]

You’re literally the first person to even mention Whole Foods in this thread.

View attachment 381127

Surely you can’t think California is the only place to get fresh produce in the US?

I really don’t care where people live but OP did ask a question and the answer as a single income physician household is “you can have anything you want, but not everything you want.”

I wonder what the farmers’ market in Bangor looks like this time of year?

 

[nimbus]

You’re literally the first person to even mention Whole Foods in this thread.

View attachment 381127

Surely you can’t think California is the only place to get fresh produce in the US?

I really don’t care where people live but OP did ask a question and the answer as a single income physician household is “you can have anything you want, but not everything you want.”

Whole Foods is full of Mexican strawberries. No matter where you buy or how much you pay, produce picked for shelf life will not be as good as produce picked ripe. Peaches are another example.

Also why does pork taste so much better in Europe and UK than it does here?