Low GPA. Post Bacc Time? Is MD out of the question?

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EAPoetic

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Hi all. I've spent countless hours on this site over the past couple years, but finally decided to make an account. Really hoping for some advice moving forward.

Background info on me:
cGPA ~ 3.0
sGPA ~ 2.5
MCAT- 499
URM (Mexican American)
Solid ECs. Volunteering, shadowing, leadership roles in orgs, mentor...etc.

After this semester those should raise up to about 3.1x and 2.7x respectively. I have about 16 more science hours left before I graduate in May 2018.

I was really planning on taking advantage of the AACOMAS grade replacement and going the DO route, but since that is no longer an option I am kind of scrambling now. I am a Texas resident so staying here for med school would be ideal, but is that even an option for me since most schools here are MD?

I was looking into post bacc and smp threads, but got a little confused. On this site (https://apps.aamc.org/postbac/#/index) I was looking for post bacc programs but saw that some offer a Masters degree. Basically, I need to raise my GPA up high enough to not get autoscreened which is why I was looking at post bacc. If they award a Masters degree though wouldn't that coursework go under my gGPA? Meaning I'd still get screened because of my horrendous undergrad gpa?
Just very confused about what I should do going forward. I know I need to repair my GPA and MCAT but any specific advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 
You are the type of person that SMPs are often recommended to, the other option being a very long period of grade repair on that 2.5-2.7 sGPA
 
How many credits do you need to raise your sgpa above 3.0?
 
Thanks for the quick replies.

Assuming a 4.0 this semester, A 4.0 on the 16 hours left for my degree would put me just above 3.0 sGPA.
 
Even with a 3.0/499 I think either an SMP or serious postbacc would be in order. Especially as a Texan where the state schools place a lot of emphasis on GPA and other states view you as lower yield

Edit: I'd also have to wonder if the Mexican URM boost is still significant in Texas where I'd guess a much larger portion of applicants are Mexican-American.
 
efle said:
Even with a 3.0/499 I think either an SMP or serious postbacc would be in order. Especially as a Texan where the state schools place a lot of emphasis on GPA and other states view you as lower yield

Edit: I'd also have to wonder if the Mexican URM boost is still significant in Texas where I'd guess a much larger portion of applicants are Mexican-American.
Click to expand...
There is something to be said of the pyschological anchoring of a 3.** Vs a 2.** . I am almost tempted to suggest a cycle outside of Texas to see what happens and a post back with MCAT retake as long as the gpa is above 3.0
 
efle said:
Even with a 3.0/499 I think either an SMP or serious postbacc would be in order. Especially as a Texan where the state schools place a lot of emphasis on GPA and other states view you as lower yield

Edit: I'd also have to wonder if the Mexican URM boost is still significant in Texas where I'd guess a much larger portion of applicants are Mexican-American.
Click to expand...

Very understandable. Honestly I'm willingly to go anywhere (except the carrib...maybe?) Staying in Texas would be great, but I know they really care about the numbers. A few ADCOMS I've spoken to were pretty stern about the 3.5/500+ The tuition is so darn low though, and since they take 90% in state residents all the schools are extremely attractive.

libertyyne said:
There is something to be said of the pyschological anchoring of a 3.** Vs a 2.** . I am almost tempted to suggest a cycle outside of Texas to see what happens and a post back with MCAT retake as long as the gpa is above 3.0
Click to expand...

Not exactly sure what you mean by this. By "cycle outside of Texas" do you mean applying broadly OOS one cycle and if I don't get in then do a post bacc and MCAT retake and apply again the next cycle?
 
EAPoetic said:
Just very confused about what I should do going forward. I know I need to repair my GPA and MCAT but any specific advice would be greatly.
Click to expand...

It's difficult to give specific advice without knowing why your numbers are subpar. If you partied for two years but now have your act together that's one thing, if you study 10 hours a day and still get B's and C's it's quite another.
 
I always thought of the difference between SMP & post-bacc as this:

SMP are typically one year graduate level programs in a science that get you a master's at the end. These would be most like the medical school curriculum, which is why they are so well liked.

Post-bacc could be either additional undergrad classes after the bachelor's degree is completed or a random sampling of graduate level sciences, not in a formal program or with any degree or certification at the end.

In addition to these 2 options you have a regular Master's degree that's a full 2 year (on average) program (i.e. MPH).

I could be wrong...this is just how I use the terminology when explaining the differences to students.

The list you provided looks to be a combination of all different types.
 
I will be the dissenting opinion. You should take post back classes to raise your gpa to 3.2+ and retake MCAT to 505+ and apply amcas. You have almost a 50/50 shot at that point. If you don't get in I would then do the smp with linked program. You can have a weak gpa or a weak MCAT but having both really is a recipe for rejection. Alternatively if you can score 508+ I can see an acceptance to an MD school with a 3.0+ gpa.but that is easier said then done.
 
There are stickies about this int he non-trad forum, I believe, and check out the posts of the wise DrMidlife.

The best kinds of SMP will be given at a med school, with linkage to their program (or, at a minimum, a guaranteed interview).

EAPoetic said:
Are there any SMPs that you recommend for someone in my particular situation? Also, https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/cib/2017_post-bacc-programs.pdf?sfvrsn=4 are DO post bacc programs but some offer a Masters degree and/or have linkage. Are those considered SMPs or post baccs? Please excuse my ignorance, but I am kind of confused.
Click to expand...
 
prehealthadvisor55 said:
Post-bacc could be either additional undergrad classes after the bachelor's degree is completed or a random sampling of graduate level sciences, not in a formal program or with any degree or certification at the end
Click to expand...

What is a formal post bacc then? Is that just an SMP with a different name?

libertyyne said:
I will be the dissenting opinion. You should take post back classes to raise your gpa to 3.2+ and retake MCAT to 505+ and apply amcas. You have almost a 50/50 shot at that point. If you don't get in I would then do the smp with linked program. You can have a weak gpa or a weak MCAT but having both really is a recipe for rejection. Alternatively if you can score 508+ I can see an acceptance to an MD school with a 3.0+ gpa.but that is easier said then done.
Click to expand...

This makes a lot of sense to me. @Goro is doing a post bacc to try and remedy GPA, and then doing SMP if post bacc doesn't amount in any acceptances a good idea? I've heard underperforming in an SMP is basically a death sentence.
 
Also, thank yall for all of the advice. It's really helpful!
 
EAPoetic said:
What is a formal post bacc then? Is that just an SMP with a different name?
Click to expand...

The difference to me is SMP = degree, formal post-bacc is smattering of courses with no degree at the end. Post-bacc I tend to associate with undergrad classes as well. Again, this is just how I tend to define them.
 
Formal post-bac programs are for career changers and provide the pre-reqs only.

SMPs = auditions for med school with med school coursework. They are more high risk, but also high reward. And yes, underperforming in them means no medical career, but really, if you can't do well in an SMP, that's a sign med school would kill you.


EAPoetic said:
What is a formal post bacc then? Is that just an SMP with a different name?



This makes a lot of sense to me. @Goro is doing a post bacc to try and remedy GPA, and then doing SMP if post bacc doesn't amount in any acceptances a good idea? I've heard underperforming in an SMP is basically a death sentence.
Click to expand...
 
Here is a link to a program of each to give you more of a feel of the difference

SMP: https://smp.georgetown.edu/admissions

Post-bac: http://smhs.gwu.edu/postbac-premed/

Here is a link to the post-bac listing on aamc: https://apps.aamc.org/postbac/#/index

I know they start blurring together after a while. LOL I'm in the same boat as you trying to raise my gpa. Unfortunately I had an incredibly tough time adjusting to college life as well as a few personal issues. Now I'm 10 years and a degree worth of credits out trying to fix things. My suggestion is if you try your hardest and still can't get a semester of A's to take a step back and really decide what's holding you back or if you are even ready at this point in your life. There is nothing wrong with telling yourself that you need to grow as a person first and apply a few years later in order to put yourself in a better mental state to succeed. This is your plan; you're the only one the race. <-- things I wish I told my undergrad self LoL
 
EAPoetic said:
What is a formal post bacc then? Is that just an SMP with a different name?
Click to expand...
Post bac grades are averaged into your undergrad gpa. Masters grades (SMP), are not.
All undergrad courses taken after graduation are "post-bac" whether they are taken in a specially designed program or not.
 
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If I don't get in, I'm planning on applying to the SMP at UNTHSC in FW. Haven't taken MCAT yet, but I should be around a 3.5 cGPA and same for sGPA when I'm finished with remaining coursework. I've read a good deal about that SMP and it seems like a great option. There are updated threads just about that SMP on here you should check out for more info. I've read they won't accept anyone they think they can't help. I've also *read* they're linked to TCOM and reserve a few seats each cycle just for UNTHSC SMP graduates who did very well in the program. Study your tail off and good luck! TX is a great state to start this journey in.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
efle said:
Edit: I'd also have to wonder if the Mexican URM boost is still significant in Texas where I'd guess a much larger portion of applicants are Mexican-American.
Click to expand...
Then you will be surprised to learn that the school in TX that produced the largest number of Mexican-American applicants (UT Austin) only generated 36. Their total number of applicants was 756. The next highest was Baylor at 26. Then comes UTPA, 24 and UTEP, 22. The rest are all below 20!

With a Hispanic population of almost 40%, the disparity is startling.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is yet another illustration that for all the whining, pissing, bitching and moaning about the URM advantage in med school admissions, the actual numbers of URM applicants are tiny compared to the ORM pool.


gyngyn said:
Then you will be surprised to learn that the school in TX that produced the largest number of Mexican-American applicants (UT Austin) only generated 36! Their total number of applicants was 756. The next highest was Baylor at 26. Then comes UTPA, 24 and UTEP, 22. The rest are all below 20!

With a Hispanic population of almost 40%, the disparity is startling.
Click to expand...
 
I was in a similar situation as you and got accepted to a grand total of one MD program, so it's possible. You can still apply MD but not applying to DOs is a recipe for failure. And obviously, the better the MCAT, the higher your chances of getting looked at so consider retaking. Now, here are your best options for your GPA.

1. Take post bacc courses to raise your GPA, depending on how many credits you've taken already, this may or may not be a reasonable option.

2. Apply to linked SMPs. These are hard to get into but if accepted, all you have to do is not mess up and you're in. There are some available only to URMs so you should look into those as well (GEMS at Georgetown, Drexel has one too).

3. Apply to non-linked SMPs. These are high risk and you can be left out in the cold with 50k+ in debt even in the best case scenario. However, I did this and it worked out for me so it's possible. (Again, only 1 acceptance with a 4.0 graduate GPA).

4. Caribbean.
 
gyngyn said:
Post bac grades are averaged into your undergrad gpa. Masters grades (SMP), are not.
All undergrad courses taken after graduation are "post-bac" whether they are taken in a specially designed program or not.
Click to expand...

Thank you. So, please correct me if I'm wrong, both of these are factored into ones overall gpa/sgpa. Whenever schools auto screen, which gpa do they use? I thought they screened using uGPA, but I was told differently by an advisor. I've been under the impression that if my uGPA/usGPA were sub 3.0 that even a 4.0 SMP would still get me autoscreened.
 
Eternal_Premed_Struggle said:
I was in a similar situation as you and got accepted to a grand total of one MD program, so it's possible. You can still apply MD but not applying to DOs is a recipe for failure. And obviously, the better the MCAT, the higher your chances of getting looked at so consider retaking. Now, here are your best options for your GPA.

1. Take post bacc courses to raise your GPA, depending on how many credits you've taken already, this may or may not be a reasonable option.

2. Apply to linked SMPs. These are hard to get into but if accepted, all you have to do is not mess up and you're in. There are some available only to URMs so you should look into those as well (GEMS at Georgetown, Drexel has one too).

3. Apply to non-linked SMPs. These are high risk and you can be left out in the cold with 50k+ in debt even in the best case scenario. However, I did this and it worked out for me so it's possible. (Again, only 1 acceptance with a 4.0 graduate GPA).

4. Caribbean.
Click to expand...

I plan to apply MD and DO whenever my application is good enough. Staying MD in Texas would be ideal but I'm not really in a position to be picky lol. I'll be retaking the MCAT in August.

Thanks for the info! Quick question, I looked into the GEMS at Georgetown (thanks btw I had never heard of it) and it looks like in order to apply to that program I have to submit an AMCAS application this cycle to at least one med school. Then submit the GEMS app with proof that I applied somewhere.
From their website... "Once your AMCAS application is processed, you will submit a PDF copy of the "processed" (verified) AMCAS application as part of the GEMS Admissions application which opens in January 2017"

Since I'm basically assured a rejection with my current stats, is putting in an application this cycle worth it to try for the GEMS program? It's pretty selective, and I'd technically be a re-applicant whenever I decide to apply everywhere. I hear that re-applicants aren't exactly viewed in a favorable light.
 
EAPoetic said:
Thank you. So, please correct me if I'm wrong, both of these are factored into ones overall gpa/sgpa. Whenever schools auto screen, which gpa do they use? I thought they screened using uGPA, but I was told differently by an advisor. I've been under the impression that if my uGPA/usGPA were sub 3.0 that even a 4.0 SMP would still get me autoscreened.
Click to expand...
Master's grades are not averaged into undergrad gpa.
A school that uses undergrad gpa as an automatic screen will not see the Master's grades.
If there is a human screener, the SMP may be considered.
 
EAPoetic said:
I plan to apply MD and DO whenever my application is good enough. Staying MD in Texas would be ideal but I'm not really in a position to be picky lol. I'll be retaking the MCAT in August.

Thanks for the info! Quick question, I looked into the GEMS at Georgetown (thanks btw I had never heard of it) and it looks like in order to apply to that program I have to submit an AMCAS application this cycle to at least one med school. Then submit the GEMS app with proof that I applied somewhere.
From their website... "Once your AMCAS application is processed, you will submit a PDF copy of the "processed" (verified) AMCAS application as part of the GEMS Admissions application which opens in January 2017"

Since I'm basically assured a rejection with my current stats, is putting in an application this cycle worth it to try for the GEMS program? It's pretty selective, and I'd technically be a re-applicant whenever I decide to apply everywhere. I hear that re-applicants aren't exactly viewed in a favorable light.
Click to expand...
Post bac Gpas will be lumped into Ugpa to give total Ugpa. Thus fulfilling the purpose of meeting the cutoffs.
 
gyngyn said:
Master's grades are not averaged into undergrad gpa.
A school that uses undergrad gpa as an automatic screen will not see the Master's grades.
If there is a human screener, the SMP may be considered.
Click to expand...

Is there any way to know which schools use autoscreen and which don't? Obviously it's best to get gpa up above 3.0 but if that isn't feasible and I have to bank on SMP performance it would be nice to know which schools would still autoreject me. This is worst case scenario. The plan is to get up above 3.0.
 
EAPoetic said:
Is there any way to know which schools use autoscreen and which don't? Obviously it's best to get gpa up above 3.0 but if that isn't feasible and I have to bank on SMP performance it would be nice to know which schools would still autoreject me. This is worst case scenario. The plan is to get up above 3.0.
Click to expand...
I don't know. Websites may help.
 
EAPoetic said:
Is there any way to know which schools use autoscreen and which don't? Obviously it's best to get gpa up above 3.0 but if that isn't feasible and I have to bank on SMP performance it would be nice to know which schools would still autoreject me. This is worst case scenario. The plan is to get up above 3.0.
Click to expand...
So I'm kinda a lurker here but I'm in the same boat. I just started a diy post-bac. I looked into SMPs and my GPA was too low to apply to those. I have a 2.66 from 10yrs ago, no master's degree.

In all the research and kind of help videos I've watched and podcasts I've listened to the consensus is be your own advocate. You are sub 3.0 but the last 60 credits you did was >3.5 (just throwing that number out there) then apply and send letters or emails to the admission committee saying basically Hey I messed up but I've matured and here is my proof Please give me a shot and at least review my app. This advice came around when DO took away grade replacement.

Also just fyi I recently saw that University of Iowa weigha the last 40 or 60 credits as well. Thats from their website so you may need to really dig into those webpages.

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