Low Grades, bad advice, and no time (please help)

[ucr004]

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greetings,
i am a big fan of these "vBulletin" forum websites. Searching for new ones i found this one and would like to pose a very complicated dilema...

My spouse is currently an undergraduate about to petition for graduation next week (biological sciences, concentration in medical bio). Her ultimate goal is to attend dental school but her grades are very low. Science GPA is 2.2 (with 3 "C-" grades) and an overall GPA of 2.5. After a current visit to the health advisor this week she is skeptical of the information she was given.

1.) She was told that a post bac program would not help her what-so-ever b/c she has taken a great deal of upper division courses and the post bac would be way too remedial for her. (we assume the advisor is up-to-date with every possible post bac program)

2.) Even if she would attend a graduate program/post bac program her undergraduate science grades would pose a deffinate road block in dental school applications.

3.) She was also told that she should not petition for graduation this week and stay the entire academic school year taking 24+ units worth of repeat core classes (redoing o-chem, bio, and genetics series) and that this would allow her to present a better dental school app and possibly avoiding any graduate work and gaining direct aceptance to a dental school.

-she has not done any reasearch nor does she have any letters of rec. (although she has not earned any i have the means to obtain letters of rec from current dentist, even though they dont know her)

-she took the MCAT last year and got a 28 (her grades dont reflect her abilities) and has yet to take the DAT... her low grades come with a good story (personal statement material)

-i know there must be some kind of "less traveled" road that she can take to reach acceptance to dental school but she has yet to find it... ANY advice would be greatly appreciated

(if there is any missing info that would help members to provide advice i wont hesitate to post it.)

thanks again.

 

[kleenex101]

I disagree on that post-bac response by the advisor, but I would definitely say that staying an additional year to retake those science classes is probably the best way to go. If her science gpa is low and is consistently low, there is really not much you can explain unless you are working 40 hours a week or have a very sick mother in the hospital.

If she can earn many A's that will really counter those C's earned previously and that'll look very good to adcoms as she applies to dental school. good luck

 

[onamission]

I agree with kleenex101. Many dental schools have minimum grade requirements for pre-req classes. Most that I've looked into have a minimum grade of C for pre-reqs or you need to repeat them (C- would need to be repeated). As far as the post bac classes/programs, that advisor is way off. This is my second time applying and when I didn't get in anywhere, all the schools told me to get a post-bac (MS not MA). Also, it's never too early to start shadowing dentists, log volunteer hours and earn letters of recommendation. Good luck.

 

[Regmata]

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but a 2.5 overall with a 2.2 science is difficult to overcome. Her 28 on the MCAT while barely on the lower end of competitive also says that she is either just interested in being called doctor or prefers medicine to dentistry (evidenced b/c she took the MCAT first). She has a difficult road ahead of her. Once she has succeeded at earning good grades in the core sciences (she should stay and take them over), then she has some personal statement material. Whatever her story, nobody will really care. Had there been a great story and a 2.9 or 3.0 gpa, then sure, it would mean something.

I would have her retake the sciences, get some letters of recommendation, some dental experience and then apply. During the year that she is applying, she may want to do a 1 year masters program if possible.

This is a very competitive time to get into dental school and in order to be competitive, she needs to do something different, very different.

 

[dentaldentist]

As has been mentioned, a 2.5 GPA is difficult to get over, but I do believe it is possible to still get in with some hard work. I would personally finish out the year and retake a number of core science classes to bring up the GPA. She will need A's in as many of these classes as possible. Then she will need to do a post-bacc or master's degree program where she will again need to average a high GPA. She should also get in some volunteer work and dental shadowing in during that time and then come back and apply. Yes, this adds a couple of extra years of education and expense, but right now there is no way she could get in. The average entrance scores for 2006 entering students was a 3.5 with a 19 on the DAT - Dental school stastics.

Another suggestion is that she could talk to someone in the admissions office of one of the dental schools she is interested in. They may be able to give you some ideas on what exactly she will need to do to have a chance of admission. Good luck.

 

[SugarNaCl]

This is a really tough situation. Schools on average expect about a 3.6 GPA now. The standards are just slightly lower (and at some schools not at all lower) than MD programs. There are some east coast DO programs that are easier than DDS programs to get into as well.

I agree that a 2.2/2.5 is VERY difficult to overcome. She will need to likely take many many classes, grad work etc. No matter which route, it will likely take years for her to reach the point where she will be considered a relatively competitive applicant. If she wants it bad enough, she will take as much time as she needs and improve herself academically.

Lastly, it probably isn't that great of a sign that she took the MCAT. Dental schools want to see a passion or at least an interest in dentistry. Now that the field is getting so competitive and there are so many applicants, they can select those who genuinely have an interest in the discipline.

Best advice I can give is get a more difficult Masters degree with a thesis in a science field and/or retake enough of the classes she did poorly in to bring it (her undergrad GPA) up ideally to at LEAST a 3.3 (and that's on the low end). If she can avoid mentioning the MCAT, that would probably be beneficial. It isn't impossible, but I won't lie to you it will most likely take a LOT of time and a LOT of effort. Undergrad is weighed heaviest. Good luck to the both of you. If she wants it bad enough, she will get it eventually... if not, then she didn't want it bad enough to begin with.

 

[JMJRDH1]

Have her call all of the schools that she may end up applying to and ask them what she should do. Everyone has given good advice IMO, but with a situation as dire as this one, she needs to get the info straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[sublimegd]

Lastly, it probably isn't that great of a sign that she took the MCAT. Dental schools want to see a passion or at least an interest in dentistry. ...

If she can avoid mentioning the MCAT, that would probably be beneficial.

Isn't there a question in the dat about whether you have taken the MCAT? I can't imagine them being too happy about that.

 

[SugarNaCl]

Isn't there a question in the dat about whether you have taken the MCAT? I can't imagine them being too happy about that.

I don't recall, but it is very possible that this is the case... now that you mention it I sort of remember it from my application, but I couldn't remember if it was applied to another professional discipline or if they asked about the exams. In any case, I agree that especially with extremely shaky stats, not having a clear vision as to what field you want to go into can't be smiled upon by too many. I'm not adcoms though and I don't know what makes them tick. 😉

If interested in medicine, I'd say save the money and apply to LECOM's DO program. I heard a year or 2 ago that it is one of the easier medical schools to get into I think their ave GPA is lower than most of the dental schools. If she wants medicine, go that way...not into a field that may not be her passion.

 

[DentDelOriente]

1) They ask about your other test scores, such as MCAT, on the AADSAS application, somewhere on the Academic Section. The school WILL know about it.

2) 2.5 will not get you in, not with the way the application pool is. Our average gpa this year was 3.7, DAT was 21/22. I speak to people on the admission committee (the professors/deans who interviewed me), and to simply put, they have to have the numbers up there first. It would not be a wise investment. However, if she can get 25+ on the DAT, then she might spark interest with the committee. But 2.5 GPA and 25+ DAT means two things: 1) smart, but lazy, 2)smart, but has no time management. If there's anything you learn after the first week at dental school, there are two things. You can't be lazy and you have to manage your time wisely. I'm not saying your wife is lazy, but you have the burden to prove otherwise.

3) My undergrad gpa was 3.1, 3.0 for science. Worked a few years, took post-bac, (almost all A's), then continued with MA in Molecular Bio (mostly A's, didn't finish). That pushed my gpa up around 3.6/3.7, DAT = 22. All things consider, I'm the average applicant who would most likely get interviews. I would say screw the pre-dent advisor and work out an iron-clad plan for the new FEW years. Take more higher level courses and continue to improve your GPA if possible. Shadow a good dentist if possible because good admission committees can spot a generic recommendation letter a mile away.

4) Words from head of admission committee: "There was two mistakes he (an applicant) made in his life. One was getting an F in organic chemistry. The other one was getting a D when he took it again. And that D equals Death"

I'm sorry if if I may sound not supportive, but this is the reality of things. I was in a similar academic situation 2 years ago. You just have to fight through it. Good luck. (Posting on here is not a good way to take a study break from biochem!!!)

 

[nicko18]

the old story, a debut post.

Will we see a return of "ucr004"??

I suspect not.

 

[ucr004]

the old story, a debut post.

Will we see a return of "ucr004"??

I suspect not.

I would like to thank all those whom have replied and given great advice...
We had to work out some of the details in what was to be retaken since we had forgotten that there was a 16unit repeat policy. The science advisors were not too pleased to extend enrollment 2 extra quarters since the graduation credits had been met. It took about 5 hours of going back and forth between the health advisor, the undergraduate advisor, and the register's office to get things straightened out.

We found "Midwestern University" in the state of Arizona that had requirements on the much lower end than those mentioned on this thread, but i found out it was b/c they have yet to graduate a DDS class.

We were also informed through this thread of an Academic Fresh Start program that seems most appropriate as far as post undergrad studies.

So the plan as of now consist of retaking classes until the end of spring 08. Apply to UCLA's predental summer prep program. next, apply to Academic Fresh Start program (08-09) and hopefully start sending out apps at the end of the fresh start program. (while studying and preping for the DAT)


I would like to thank kleenex101, onamission, Regmata, dentaldentist, SugarNaCl, JMJRDH1, DentDelOriente, and especially jdoc04. This current plan would not have been created had it not been for the help of you guys. (not even the health career advisor was able to generate a plan, and she gets paid to do so!)

 

[JMJRDH1]

ucr004

Best of luck to the Mrs on her plans. With her hard work and your obvious support, she has a good shot at success. 👍