Low MCAT but Somewhat High GPA

[FuturePharm21]

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Hey guys, so most people that do Post-baccs have the opposite scenario as me, but I have the following stats:

Bio major/chem minor
Cum GPA: 3.65, Sci GPA: 3.4
MCAT: 21

So as you can see, my MCAT is low and I have tried tutoring and Kaplan class and my scores didn't improve much....I was wondering are there any Masters or post-bacc programs for students like me?


Also, what programs offer conditional acceptance or Master's programs linked to their medical school if you maintain a certain GPA WITHOUT retaking MCAT??

Thanks for your help and remember, if you have passion for it, don't give up!

 

[leggo]

You will need to retake the MCAT. I really don't believe a SMP will let you in with a 21, especially the programs with linkages.

 

[FuturePharm21]

Actually I know 2 programs that have averages with low 20's MCAT...getting accepted into the Masters program...and then after that the medical school cares about grades in the program.

 

[pancakesyrup]

Retake the MCAT and actually study the material thoroughly. When you took the Kaplan course, did you do all the assigned readings and full lengths?

 

[bigloley]

Don't waste the money on the masters, your GPA is decent enough for admission with a good MCAT.

If you study properly there should be no reason you should not score at least a 30 on the MCAT - for any SMP you will have to take much harder classes than undergrad and you might hurt yourself more than helping yourself. If you believe you can do well in these courses at an SMP, you should also be able to do well in the MCAT.

Take a good 3-4 months, study every day - look at the MCAT forum, there are tons of great study guides and recommendations for study materials

 

[deleted248403]

Actually I know 2 programs that have averages with low 20's MCAT...getting accepted into the Masters program...and then after that the medical school cares about grades in the program.

Calling BS on that

No US MD school (and I can't imagine DO either) is accepting you with a 21 MCAT and a 4.0 graduate GPA

Re-take the MCAT, you don't have any other option - or pack your bags and sunscreen and head to the Carib

 

[FightinUruKai]

Before I contribute, is there a specific reason you want to go to an SMP as opposed to rewrite the MCAT? If not....

Just to throw in my two cents, but there just seems to be a bit of a disconnect to me - do you have a semester with a 1.0 gpa in your final semester you are trying to correct, or other weak academic performance to enhance? Did you apply to medical schools and not get in? Did you get in touch with their admissions and get a chance to ask why?

To be quite honest, unless you had a medical school specifically say they thought an SMP would be beneficial to you, it might be a bit premature to apply to them. SMPs, as far as I understand, should be a last ditch effort, a hail mary sort of play.

First of all, you mentioned 2 that accept your MCAT score - get in touch with their admissions and ask them if they think you would be a good fit/if there is any chance they would accept you. An SMP admit would be unlikely with that MCAT, but if you were to get admitted to a program with linkage, here are some things you would have to consider: It's going to cost you 50k. Gone. Never to return. Also, it shall consume 1-2 years of your life, where you do nothing besides SMP. And the cost if you do not do well in the program is essentially waving goodbye to medical school. Not to say you won't be able to ever get in, but it would take years to recover the damage, and, even then, it's unlikely.

As opposed to retaking the MCAT: It will cost you a couple hundred dollars to sign up for the exam. If you choose to purchase new study materials, could cost a couple thousand dollars. It will take 3-6 months of your life away. You can work on your EC's while/after studying. If you do not feel positive you can do well on the exam, you postpone the exam until you are scoring 28+. You take the exam. You kick butt. You don't kick butt? You study and try again, with SIGNIFICANTLY less stigma than doing poorly in an SMP. And, as a positive, since you scored so low, it'll be that much easier to bring yourself up to a

So - take the high risk, longer term, highly expensive odds, or take the shorter term, less expensive, low risk odds where you can beef up your application in other ways too?

It seems like a no brainer to me, but ymmv.

Good luck in whichever you decide!

 

[FuturePharm21]

I already have 2 bad scores and one MCAT score I just took Aug 6 will be coming in 3 weeks. I'm sick of the damn MCAT to be honest and I dont want to take it again...

Caribbean or SMP...Who is the SMP for then?

Students with poor MCAT scores have no options?? While students with poor GPA can do SMP?

 

[DrMidlife]

MCAT represents a med school candidate's ability to succeed on hours-long multiple choice format standardized exams that cover ridiculously large amounts of material. Such exams are mandatory throughout med school and beyond - they're called boards. If you can't get a good MCAT score, then you can't come to the med school admissions process with credibility that you can pass boards. Med schools risk losing their accreditation when they accept students who can't pass boards. Retaking the MCAT is almost infinitely allowable. The solution to a low MCAT is a decent MCAT. Not everybody can get a good MCAT score, and in such a case, it's more reasonable to choose a different career than to find a med school option that allows you to proceed without the necessary test-taking skills.

GPA represents a med school candidate's ability to consistently succeed across multiple years of coursework. The solution to a low GPA is to do additional multiple years of coursework showing consistent success.

Best of luck to you.

 

[deleted248403]

I already have 2 bad scores and one MCAT score I just took Aug 6 will be coming in 3 weeks. I'm sick of the damn MCAT to be honest and I dont want to take it again...

Caribbean or SMP...Who is the SMP for then?

Students with poor MCAT scores have no options?? While students with poor GPA can do SMP?

Read Midlife's post - an excellent summary of the diff between overcoming a poor GPA and poor MCAT

If you aren't prepared to re-take the MCAT, then go to the Carib or pick a different career. Personally, I'd pick the latter because you are going to likely fail the boards multiple times if you can't succeed on the MCAT. The USMLEs/COMPLEXs will be far more difficult.

Students with poor MCATs take Kaplan courses, or do re-visit their study habits. There is no work around a bad MCAT other than re-take the MCAT

 

[FuturePharm21]

i'm just frustrated because I have taken the MCAT 3 times and done bad, the first time granted I did not study properly, but the second time I scored poorly using the Kaplan course and reading the review books and taking practice tests...the third time I just took it and I'm still waiting on my score, but I just had a feeling it's going to be a mediocre or low score...we'll see in a few weeks:S

I just don't understand how computing physics kinematics problems or memorizing organic mechanisms has anything to do with my desire to be a doctor...my GPA is fine meaning I can handle science classes and I was on the Dean's list every semester...

I'm just not a perfect standardized test taker and I feel medical schools care more about MCAT than GPA:/

I get it, you have to take boards and licensing exams for the rest of your life, but if you study hard, I'm sure you will do fine as most medical students and doctors I talked to...

 

[DrMidlife]

I just don't understand how computing physics kinematics problems or memorizing organic mechanisms has anything to do with my desire to be a doctor.

Your understanding, or your approval, of the requirements to get into med school, have exactly zero effect on what the requirements are. If you want to change the requirements for getting into med school, here's what to do:
1. Meet the existing requirements to get into med school
2. Do med school
3. Work for about a decade in academic medicine
4. Publish boatloads of papers demonstrating that the requirement of a good MCAT score correlates with poor outcomes in medical practice.
5. Now that somebody is listening to you, work for another couple decades to get the requirements to change.

Your lack of interest in figuring out the MCAT, when the MCAT is between you and your goal, is nobody's problem but yours.

I'm just not a perfect standardized test taker and I feel medical schools care more about MCAT than GPA:/

No, med schools care about both. If you have pancake mix and no water, you don't get pancakes. If you have GPA and no MCAT, you don't get med school.

Also note that "perfection" has never been discussed with you here. You're balking at having to reach an average score for people who get into med school.

I get it, you have to take boards and licensing exams for the rest of your life, but if you study hard, I'm sure you will do fine as most medical students and doctors I talked to...

Do you know what those medical students and doctors did before they started med school? They got a good MCAT score. That's why they'll do fine if they study hard. Show med schools some evidence that you'll do fine on boards if you study hard.

Best of luck to you.

 

[drizzt3117]

You need a good MCAT class, not a postbac of any type. Fly to CA, get an apt, and spend a year doing the Berkeley review course twice and studying for the MCAT. Do some volunteering in the mean time, take infinite #s of practice tests. Your mistake was sitting for the test when your practice test results were standard deviations from even applicant means. High school students do better than 21 on the MCAT w/o studying.

 

[ghostman]

You need a good MCAT class, not a postbac of any type. Fly to CA, get an apt, and spend a year doing the Berkeley review course twice and studying for the MCAT. Do some volunteering in the mean time, take infinite #s of practice tests. Your mistake was sitting for the test when your practice test results were standard deviations from even applicant means. High school students do better than 21 on the MCAT w/o studying.

I have to agree with this statement. You went through the Kaplan course and indicated that you took the practice exams. Then you would have known where your scores were hovering. If you did not hit your target in any practice test, then you should not have taken the MCATs.

What people are saying are harsh, but I think they are giving you genuine advice. A 21 on the MCATs after multiple takes means you don't understand the material, despite what your GPA may say. Rather than trying to bypass one of the criteria for admissions, you should be working on meeting that criteria. Retake the courses (preferably at a different school) if you need to rebuild the foundation, find a good tutor and set a good chunk of time devoted to going through practice problems (ExamKrackers, Kaplan, etc.) and really understanding why you're getting certain questions wrong (not just reading their explanations and nodding your head). The scope of the MCATs is relatively narrow compared to pre-req classes you're taking, so there's no reason why you can't handle the material on the MCATs.

 

[ravupadh]

i'm just frustrated because I have taken the MCAT 3 times and done bad, the first time granted I did not study properly, but the second time I scored poorly using the Kaplan course and reading the review books and taking practice tests...the third time I just took it and I'm still waiting on my score, but I just had a feeling it's going to be a mediocre or low score...we'll see in a few weeks:S

First of all, DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT use Kaplan. They're material is a piece of **** compared to other test prep companies out there. Also, if you really want to do this as your career you'll want to try your best and take the exam as many times as you need to. If you can't then the Carribean might be the best option for you. A 21 is honestly even too low for most if not all Osteopathic Medical schools.

I'm going to give you my little story since I was in your situation a year ago. I got a 26 the first time I took the exam (9 VR, 7 PS, 10 BS) last July. It was depressing but I knew I had to take the exam again because with my GPA (3.5) and especially my horrendous science GPA (3.2) I knew I had to get at least a 30 on the exam to even have a remote chance of being accepted to one MD school. I started studying for 3 months straight during April of this year and took the exam on July 6th. Please, if you can afford it get the berkeley review books and use the schedule posted in the MCAT forum here. It's a 3 month schedule but if you devote every day for studying (except break days), you will see an improvement in your practice scores. The books are fantastic and all of them (except the bio books) have just the right amount of detail you need for the exam. You really need to follow SN2ed's schedule closely though in order for your scores to improve (except the hat trick which I think is useless). You can't go out partying or even hang out on weekends except break days. That's what break days are for. I had no social life for 3 months but it paid off and I'm really proud of myself. Take notes on the side margins to make things simpler and understand what your reading by re-reading everything. So yes that means doing a verbal passage every day and doing a chapter everyday.

I ended up getting a 32R on my retake (8 VR, 10 PS, 14 PS). I honestly don't know why I got the scores I did because I thought I did horrendous on the bio and physics and great on verbal, but it turned out to be the opposite. Unfortunately I'd say luck plays a large factor into your score since you'll get an okay exam or a really hard one like I did, or you'll get screwed over with a passage you didn't study. But that's why you have to practice everyday, and the test is curved so your not screwed over that much by a really hard exam. The verbal is still haunting me since I was getting 10s on my practice exams but I'll have to stick with it for now. Another thing to note is that if you go into the exam confidently and full of energy 90% of the time your practice exam score average WILL be close to your actual score. I took 7 practice exams and my average was a 32.3. It really works, even in my case where the exam was ridiculously hard (look at the 07/06/11 exam thread). I cannot stress enough taking as many practice exams as you can. Take all of the AAMC exams for sure, and try to get some of the berkeley review CBTs if you can afford them. They're harder than the regular AAMCs but they're still accurate for your score and really drill some concepts into your head.

In terms of the Post-Bacc, I think your GPA is fine and your science GPA is okay too. I would only do it if you want linkage at a particular med school if that's even possible with your MCAT. But that has so many factors associated with it that I wouldn't even rely on it. Also, see if the program let's you take med school courses, because if it does it's a great opportunity to prove yourself. If your Post-Bacc offers good research opportunties like mine does and you want a career in research then you should go for it. But honestly I haven't seen a program that'll accept someone with a 21.

I myself am doing a Post-Bacc just because of my science GPA and to get more exposure to research. Granted, I'm applying during the current cycle, but I'm doing the UMDNJ-NJMS GSBS program and they allow you to take a med school course each semester if you have a good MCAT score, so that's another reason why I'm doing it. I don't care about being exempt from the course if I get in but the adcom will wait till you finish the course in mid october to review your application. So it really is an opportunity to prove yourself. Also, the program has excellent research opportunities and it's perfect for someone like me who wants a career in research/academic medicine. All of the med school students here are friendly and they don't discriminate against the graduate school students. UMDNJ (at least in Newark anyway) is really one big family since you not only have med school students but a plethora of Masters students like me, nursing students, PhD students, dental students, etc.) With so many programs no one cares what degree you're getting. The area immediatly surrounding the campus is safe and I haven't had a problem yet. The lectures for the med school course I'm taking are fantastic and I actually like learning the material. All of the information is presented in a concise matter and the lecture is even recorded so you can watch it anytime you want. You really have no way to fail the course unless you absolutely do nothing.

 

[ravupadh]

I just don't understand how computing physics kinematics problems or memorizing organic mechanisms has anything to do with my desire to be a doctor...my GPA is fine meaning I can handle science classes and I was on the Dean's list every semester...

You'd be surprised at how much things that you've studied for for the MCAT and in undergrad show up in med school. I'm only one week into my med school mol bio course and we've already had lectures discuss amino acid buffering as well as thermodynamics/kinetics. We also discussed acid/base titration in depth too. In fact, we had almost half of an enzyme thermodynamics lecture devoted to delta G = delta Go + RT*lnkeq. The concept has shown up on our quizzes. Thankfully I only recently studied for my MCATs so the equation was drilled into my brain but MCAT concepts are really useful for some lectures in med school. I admit that physics hasn't shown up yet but some concepts in physics (fluid mechanics) are crucial for understanding respiratory and cardiovascular physiology, and sound/optics properties can be used to study the ear/eye, although I'm not sure if this'll show up at all.

I'm just not a perfect standardized test taker and I feel medical schools care more about MCAT than GPA:/

That's what you may feel and it's a valid viewpoint. However the schools determine who gets in and who doesn't and with so many applicants there's only really two concrete ways to separate the applicants: MCAT and GPA. You can have all the ECs in the world but unless you've published a paper in Nature they don't offer the same type of concrete evidence of your ability to suceed like MCAT and GPA does. It's a sad and true fact. Also, they say that MCAT bio scores correlate well to Step 1 success, and with a school's credibility being determined by such scores I don't blame them for being so cautious.

I get it, you have to take boards and licensing exams for the rest of your life, but if you study hard, I'm sure you will do fine as most medical students and doctors I talked to...

I'm not sure if I'd agree. There are special cases but a much more higher percentage of US MD students pass their step 1 in comparison to Carribean MD students. DO med students fall in the middle, although they're closer to the MD student averages.

 

[deleted248403]

First of all, DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT use Kaplan. They're material is a piece of **** compared to other test prep companies out there. Also, if you really want to do this as your career you'll want to try your best and take the exam as many times as you need to.

Kaplan worked for me - just cos it didn't work for you (or someone you know) don't crap on it. One man's meat is another man's poison...

And I disagree with your 2nd point - if you have to take the exam like 5 times in 3 years, med schools will see all of them, and thats not going to look good