Low Volunteer Hours

[Rickety.Cricket]

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[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I believe it was @LizzyM and @Goro who mentioned that not all non-clinical volunteering is considered equal. It’s better to do service to those less fortune than yourself.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

On AMCAS you can account for upcoming volunteer hours, correct? Like I said, I'm trying to get on at BBBS, and an adult rehabilitation center for my gap year, both of which I am very excited about. Just currently, the only hours I actually have are the 70 clinical volunteer hours.

Imagine you have a daughter and her boyfriend comes up to you and says “Oh yeah I know I’m just watching TV on the couch these days and I’m living in an old run-down apartment in the inner city but in a couple months Apple is going to make me their CEO and I’m gonna buy a condo in downtown Manhattan.”

You’re being the boyfriend in that situation. So I hope you can see why your plan doesn’t really play out well.

By all means, apply next year, AFTER you have done some work rather than just talked about doing it.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

No, I don't see the comparison. I was asking how ADCOM's would view me getting volunteer experience throughout my gap year, instead of through undergrad, as I had to focus on other things at that time.

I appreciate the lazy-boyfriend, run down apartment comparison though. I'm sure you're a blast at parties.

I don't go to parties too much. I do volunteer work.

Pretty much the opposite of what you've been doing so far.

 

[KU Brendan]

I would recommend phrasing this in interviews or on applications as something like "I really focused on school/work/studying/etc. in college, but I really felt like I didn't have much of an opportunity to give back to my community. Therefore, during this past year, I've volunteered 200 hours by helping underprivileged octopuses learn how to do underwater basket weaving." Joking aside, I mean I really like to see that someone recognized a hole in his/her application and explain what he/she did to fix that. I don't know why the hours during your gap year wouldn't "count"? Even if they aren't on the AMCAS application, you can certainly bring up the experiences on your supplemental application or interviews.

 

[Rickety.Cricket]

I don't go to parties too much. I do volunteer work.



Pretty much the opposite of what you've been doing so far.

 

[LizzyM]

No, I don't see the comparison. I was asking how ADCOM's would view me getting volunteer experience throughout my gap year, instead of through undergrad, as I had to focus on other things at that time.

I appreciate the lazy-boyfriend, run down apartment comparison though. I'm sure you're a blast at parties.

they'd think that you can't walk and chew gum. We've got almost 50,000 applicants in the US and about 20,000 seats. You will be up against people who managed to "do other things" and volunteer at least 2 hours a week for as long as they've been in college.
Do we choose the person who's been in it for the long haul or someone who just jumped on the bandwagon?

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I'm literally asking how they would view my service throughout my gap year. I didn't decide on becoming a physician until the beginning of my junior year, at which time I loaded myself up with classes, work and research. I realize its a flaw in my application, which is why I'm trying to figure out what to do about it.

So? There are people that didn't decide to be doctors until they were in their 30's and they didn't get any slack. Why should you?

Maybe the activities you were doing during fresh/soph year will help.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

View attachment 231260

 

[KU Brendan]

Thank you for a real answer lol. Like I said, you can put in expected hours on the AMCAS, right? So if I end up working it out with at least one of my positions I applied for, I can make a rough estimate of those hours?

Sorry, I'm not sure on that one. It has been 20 years since I did that glorious application (dang, I'm getting old), and I can't remember seeing any "future" hours on any applications that I've reviewed during interviews. I would just recommend making it very clear on your application and interview that you decided you wanted to go into medicine late, what you've done to show that it's absolutely what you want to do (including the volunteering), and why you don't want to do anything else.

I wouldn't go as far as the "get off the couch" analogy, but if you really have no volunteering at all, you don't have to wait to get into BBBS or any other program that takes a while before you can start--while you're waiting for those, go to a local soup kitchen or something tomorrow.

 

[LizzyM]

@KU Brendan The "future hours" is a new thing in the past 6 years or so.
@Rickety.Cricket If you want to apply just once and be successful at your first try, take a year off and apply in 2019. Not discovering that you like to help people who can't help themselves until after you decided to go to med school means that you have to do some make-up work to be ready for prime time.

 

[KU Brendan]

@KU Brendan The "future hours" is a new thing in the past 6 years or so.

Thanks for the info! That seems kind of silly to me, though I'm sure NO ONE would ever abuse that and claim they were going to volunteer 2000 hours this summer...

 

[LizzyM]

In my opinion, anything you've never done before that you start in the 6 months before you apply looks like box checking. If you are >20 years old and you never made time for X until shortly before the application cycle opened, what does your prior lack of action tell me about your interests and priorities.

@bluemamba7 In some sense, particularly with the option to list a series of start/end dates, the future hours makes sense and gives an opportunity to show at the start of the cycle what you will be doing during the cycle which does make sense if you are, for example, switching from part-time in the lab during college to full time during a gap year. It is not uncommon to get a question during an interview about whether one is still engaged in those activities listed in the experience section.

 

[Catalystik]

does it look bad in any way if we put down projected hours instead of current hours for some EC? Would it still look like box-checking if we noted that we would continue all activities we started the year of application until matriculation? Thanks!

It's best if you differentiate between current and future hours in some way on the AMCAS application, either by stating it in the description or by using the "Repeated" feature that allows you to divide the timeframe into four different datespans (with their separate hours).

Also to note, AMCAS doesn't allow one to enter and save a future start date.

 

[Goro]

What’s your view on this, does it look bad in any way if we put down projected hours instead of current hours for some EC? Would it still look like box-checking if we noted that we would continue all activities we started the year of application until matriculation? Thanks!

Keep in mind that projected hours don't carry much weight. It's easy to talk the talk....walking the walk is harder.

 

[Catalystik]

It’s just as a community college transfer, there wasn’t too many opportunities at CC besides tutoring, such as being a researcher, so quite a few of my activities started the year I transferred to a university. It took a while to get the paperwork and initial steps done, so I wasn’t able to start some activities until January of this year. I hope adcoms will take this into account. Also, if we are exactly 20, would adcoms give some slack if we started some nonclinical volunteering a few months ago

No, you won't be cut any slack. You need to be competitive with other average applicants for your application to be appealing to adcomms. If you were later than typical in considering medicine as a career or late come to finding opportunities, you are still expected to demonstrate that applying to med school isn't an impulsive decision. Having 5-7 months of every typical extracurricular listed on your application won't be received well. Take your time and do it right. Take an extra year to build your application so that the activities are meaty and meaningful.

 

[Catalystik]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I’ve had all of my clinical exposure/volunteering done throughout my college career, however, I have only recently (w/in past 3 months) started activities that were foreign at the CC level, such as research, a job at the university, etc.. That’s why I was hoping I could compensate with future hours for those particular activities, because I really am devoted to them, just started them late unfortunately

Future hours are listed to give adcomms an idea of what you intend to do, but they are not much regarded when making decisions to interview/accept applicants. It happens all too often that life gets in the way and an applicant is fired, quits, loses interest, breaks a leg, has surgery, gets sick or pregnant, a business folds, a PI or charity moves or loses funding, etc. So, no, future hours will not compensate.

You have attracted three adcomms to your thread, and we all agree about the low impact of future hours.

 

[Catalystik]

I'm sure NO ONE would ever abuse that and claim they were going to volunteer 2000 hours this summer...

I interpret @KU Brendan 's comment as sarcasm. Or hyperbole.

 

[KU Brendan]

I interpret @KU Brendan 's comment as sarcasm. Or hyperbole.

Who me? Sarcasm? Never!

 

[Catalystik]

Sorry Catalystik for the constant pestering, but if I took a year break from clinical volunteering (top three EC), would you recommend that I explain why in the space describing the activity, or should I explain why during an interview? I just see it as a red flag so I was thinking to explain it in the app

As long as you list two separate time frames (using the AMCAS "Repeated" feature) you don't need to explain, but you may do so in the narrative space.

 

[Catalystik]

Would you recommend that I explain it? I see it as a red flag which is why I wanted to explain it, am I over-reacting?

What's your reason?

 

[KU Brendan]

If you did an activity for a long time, I don't think anyone would question if you took a year off from doing it, especially if you are using that time to do other things to improve your overall application. Personally, I wouldn't draw any attention to it.

 

[Catalystik]

Initially, I took a three month break to focus more on school, as school finished I got hired at the same hospital and couldn’t volunteer for the period of time I worked there (due to hospital policy). When I had to leave the hospital job, I was at the university and had no means of transportation until earlier this year.

Part of the reason will be apparent from the Employment which has the same institution listed with dates between those of the volunteering. No need to explain, and if asked, your explanations don't reflect negatively.

 

[candbgirl]

I'm literally asking how they would view my service throughout my gap year. I didn't decide on becoming a physician until the beginning of my junior year, at which time I loaded myself up with classes, work and research. I realize its a flaw in my application, which is why I'm trying to figure out what to do about it.

Take a gap year. Future endeavors are looked at like future endeavors. We all have the best intentions but life happens and the best laid plans fall apart.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

No, you won't be cut any slack. You need to be competitive with other average applicants for your application to be appealing to adcomms. If you were later than typical in considering medicine as a career or late come to finding opportunities, you are still expected to demonstrate that applying to med school isn't an impulsive decision. Having 5-7 months of every typical extracurricular listed on your application won't be received well. Take your time and do it right. Take an extra year to build your application so that the activities are meaty and meaningful.

I know this may be a 'what if' question, but if one starts volunteering late their sophomore year for clinical and non-clinical, does this also look weak?

 

[LizzyM]

I know this may be a 'what if' question, but if one starts volunteering late their sophomore year for clinical and non-clinical, does this also look weak?

Well, will you be applying at the end of junior year or taking at least one gap year. If it is 1 year, it does look a little bit like box checking particularly given that it takes at least 2 years to take the pre-reqs before taking the MCAT.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

Well, will you be applying at the end of junior year or taking at least one gap year. If it is 1 year, it does look a little bit like box checking particularly given that it takes at least 2 years to take the pre-reqs before taking the MCAT.

Applying end of junior year. I don't see what pre-reqs have anything to do with it though, I'm taking the MCAT in September.

 

[ApplicationAnxietatem]

I just want to add that there are plenty of people working half to full time during undergrad who still manage to get at least 100-200 hours of volunteering in (which if you do the math is honestly not that much). These are the people your application is going to be put up against.

Saying you'll "do it next year" on your application is not showing (which is what adcoms want) but telling. It also telling adcoms that most certainly you're only engaging in these activities for the sole purpose of being accepted into medical school.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

I just want to add that there are plenty of people working half to full time during undergrad who still manage to get at least 100-200 hours of volunteering in (which if you do the math is honestly not that much). These are the people your application is going to be put up against.

Saying you'll "do it next year" on your application is not showing (which is what adcoms want) but telling. It also telling adcoms that most certainly you're only engaging in these activities for the sole purpose of being accepted into medical school.

What about doing the same or more hours in a condensed amount of time?

 

[ApplicationAnxietatem]

What about doing the same or more hours in a condensed amount of time?

I haven't yet applied myself so I can't speak with fact on the matter. I can give you my opinion, however.

I'm sure having some condensed activities is fine as long as you were at least doing things over time, or had different condensed activities over time. If lets say you were in school for 4 years and did 200 hours of volunteering in the 4 months before applying, while it's great you had those experiences and I'm sure gained something from it I imagine many adcoms would have the taste of box checking in their mouths. Long-term activities would reflect commitment.

N=1. I've had a solid mixture of long-term activities and condensed ones. Personally I've developed greater relationships and experiences, and have made larger impacts, in the 200hr activities I've done over years than the 200 hr activities I've done in a couple of months.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

I haven't yet applied myself so I can't speak with fact on the matter. I can give you my opinion, however.

I'm sure having some condensed activities is fine as long as you were at least doing things over time, or had different condensed activities over time. If lets say you were in school for 4 years and did 200 hours of volunteering in the 4 months before applying, while it's great you had those experiences and I'm sure gained something from it I imagine many adcoms would have the taste of box checking in their mouths. Long-term activities would reflect commitment.

I've had a solid mixture of long-term activities and condensed ones. Personally I've developed greater relationships and experiences, and have made larger impacts, in the 200hr activities I've done over years than the 200 hr activities I've done in a couple of months.

I see. I mean for me it will be a year and a half so it won't taste as much like box checking I feel like. I'm not going to postpone applying just to get in more experience; with a process as subjective as this, the key is a good GPA and MCAT to get you in the door and decent experiences with decent commitment to show you are a serious candidate. The process is long enough without all of the added caveats.

 

[ApplicationAnxietatem]

I see. I mean for me it will be a year and a half so it won't taste as much like box checking I feel like. I'm not going to postpone applying just to get in more experience; with a process as subjective as this, the key is a good GPA and MCAT to get you in the door and decent experiences with decent commitment to show you are a serious candidate. The process is long enough without all of the added caveats.

I'd personally see 1.5 years of commitment as decent, granted the experiences were meaningful and you can speak to what you've gained from it/them. I would certainly not discontinue these activities during your application year, however.

 

[LizzyM]

Applying end of junior year. I don't see what pre-reqs have anything to do with it though, I'm taking the MCAT in September.

Clearly, if you were taking the pre-reqs and preparing to take the MCAT, then you were planning to apply to medical school. So, in the time you've been planning to apply to medical school, did you ever act on a desire to help others by serving those in need as a volunteer? Did you gain any insights early in the process as to what hospitals (or other settings with patients) are like and that you are interested in spending your life working in that environment with such a population?

The non-clinical volunteering is, in my mind, non-negotiable. You will be at a disadvantage if you don't have any. Clinical volunteering can be replaced by clinical employment. Shadowing is needed too.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

Clearly, if you were taking the pre-reqs and preparing to take the MCAT, then you were planning to apply to medical school. So, in the time you've been planning to apply to medical school, did you ever act on a desire to help others by serving those in need as a volunteer? Did you gain any insights early in the process as to what hospitals (or other settings with patients) are like and that you are interested in spending your life working in that environment with such a population?

The non-clinical volunteering is, in my mind, non-negotiable. You will be at a disadvantage if you don't have any. Clinical volunteering can be replaced by clinical employment. Shadowing is needed too.

No, I didn't but partially because I wasn't sure about being pre-med until the beginning of sophomore year. Also, to be honest, I would not have considered non-clinical volunteering if it had not been for this whole process. Sorry if this sounds horrible, but it is undeniably true. Going out of my way to do community service has never occurred to me in the least, unless as part of my church. Now that I am volunteering at a homeless shelter though, I see the experience as incredibly valuable and lament that I hadn't started earlier. I see what you mean though.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

No, I didn't but partially because I wasn't sure about being pre-med until the beginning of sophomore year. Also, to be honest, I would not have considered non-clinical volunteering if it had not been for this whole process. Sorry if this sounds horrible, but it is undeniably true. Going out of my way to do community service has never occurred to me in the least, unless as part of my church. Now that I am volunteering at a homeless shelter though, I see the experience as incredibly valuable and lament that I hadn't started earlier. I see what you mean though.

There are quite a few schools where you will be DOA without significant non-clinical community service. There are quite a few more where you're DOA without clinical experience.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

There are quite a few schools where you will be DOA without significant non-clinical community service. There are quite a few more where you're DOA without clinical experience.

I understand that; did you read the thread? I was talking specifically about commitment over a period of time; 300 hours in a year and a half vs 300 hours over four years for example.

 

[Catalystik]

.

Going out of my way to do community service has never occurred to me in the least, unless as part of my church.

Have you engaged in any activities through your place of worship that served others? If so, what?

 

[Deleted member 737595]

.
Have you engaged in any activities through your place of worship that served others? If so, what?

Ive been actively engaged in organizing fundraising festivals and also as a musician for the services. So, not really in direct service to others as in food pantry or caring for the sick, but active in the church community since before high school and continued through college. I know this doesn't really count as service in the traditional sense which is why I'm getting involved in other more direct service roles that will develop empathy and humility (I hope).

 

[Catalystik]

Ive been actively engaged in organizing fundraising festivals and also as a musician for the services. So, not really in direct service to others as in food pantry or caring for the sick, but active in the church community since before high school and continued through college. I know this doesn't really count as service in the traditional sense which is why I'm getting involved in other more direct service roles that will develop empathy and humility (I hope).

There is no bar to listing volunteer activities that do not directly help those in need.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

I understand that; did you read the thread? I was talking specifically about commitment over a period of time; 300 hours in a year and a half vs 300 hours over four years for example.

If it's a true 300 hours with direct interpersonal contact it wouldn't make a difference. If it was 60-100 hours I would give less credit to 60 hours over 1.5 years than to 60 hours over 4 years.

 

[Avicenna144]

In my opinion, anything you've never done before that you start in the 6 months before you apply looks like box checking. If you are >20 years old and you never made time for X until shortly before the application cycle opened, what does your prior lack of action tell me about your interests and priorities.

What if someone has previous volunteer experience and starts completely new ones 6 months before applying? Is that fine? Is it seen as continuation of their service or as ''box checking'' as well?

I have significant volunteer experiences during college year and gap year, but I also decided to start volunteering at a soup kitchen in January. How would adcoms view this?

 

[692019]

What if someone has previous volunteer experience and starts completely new ones 6 months before applying? Is that fine? Is it seen as continuation of their service or as ''box checking'' as well?

I have significant volunteer experiences during college year and gap year, but I also decided to start volunteering at a soup kitchen in January. How would adcoms view this?

Same like I used to volunteer a lot for fun during my freshman year of college but I'm going to start again after a long break during my post bacc year

 

[Deleted member 737595]

I think its fine. Also important not overthink things.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

There is no bar to listing volunteer activities that do not directly help those in need.

Right... Goro told me otherwise saying those are things you are expected to do. Is this still seen in a good light or at least not negatively? Would it be sufficient?

(Asking after saying not to overthink things)

 

[LizzyM]

Critical thinking skills, grasshoppers.

If you have never worked in a soup kitchen, pantry, or shelter and you suddenly start doing that in the 6 months before the application is submitted you have just discovered a new interest in helping the poor.

If you did some volunteering 2-3 years ago, gave it up to do other things, and then went back to it or to something similar, you have a history of activities going back 2-3 years. If you have never done anything like this, and suddenly take it up, it is a different story.

 

[LizzyM]

Right... Goro told me otherwise saying those are things you are expected to do. Is this still seen in a good light or at least not negatively? Would it be sufficient?

(Asking after saying not to overthink things)

If you want to show how you spend your time, and you want to show a little bit of your personality and what you are passionate about, include things like being a musician at church services, or raising funds for a cause you care about, or even something that is not helping others but that you enjoy and are engaged in whether it is making jewelry or repairing old mechanical devices or whatever.

 

[FroYoOreo]

suddenly start doing that in the 6 months

And is it also viewed unfavorably to do the 50 hour+ shadowing in the 6 months before the application is submitted?

 

[Deleted member 737595]

And is it also viewed unfavorably to do the 50 hour+ shadowing in the 6 months before the application is submitted?

You'll probably want LizzyM's reply more than mine, but the answer is probably no. Shadowing can be crammed whenever, because it doesn't really require commitment.

 

[LizzyM]

It seems foolish to do all the things one does to apply to medical school and not to shadow until the very end. What if you hate it -- are you prepared to reverse course at this late date... I wouldn't refuse to interview someone who didn't shadow until the 11th hour but I would question how a decision to do all the other things was made without shadowing first.

 

[FroYoOreo]

You'll probably want LizzyM's reply more than mine, but the answer is probably no. Shadowing can be crammed whenever, because it doesn't really require commitment.

I mean I can't go back in time, so regardless of how it's going to be viewed, cramming is still better than nothing at all...
EDIT: I am a reapplicant, who had no choice but to cram shadowing (what I was lacking in the first application) into the past year.