lower gpa and mcats

[jwtaylor]

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im not gonna "diss" osteopathic schools, because i actually intend on going to one, but how come the average gpas and mcats are lower than allopathic schools?

 

[Ypo.]

First of all the MCAT for DO schools (26) is only several points lower than state-supported MD schools (28-29), the GPA is around 3.4-3.5, also not much lower.

Reasons-

1. DO schools attract nontraditional students-who may have had families, jobs in undergrad, or didn't know they wanted to be a doctor from age 5, and as a result of this have slightly lower stats.

2. DO schools look at the whole applicant, place a greater emphasis on volunteer, real life experience than do MD schools, and recongizes the fact that it takes a lot more than high MCAT and GPA to make a good doctor.

 

[Mr. Seeds]

Many reasons, two of which are:

1. School proliferation. Someone really needs to put the brakes on this before it generates serious problems at both the ugrad and grad levels of medical eduation.

2. Generally, research and prestige (and money) all go hand in hand, and DO schools tend to be focused more on producing outstanding primary care physicians than on producing nobel prize winners (ahem, U Chicago). Stronger applicants tend to go after prestige, and hence, research schools - virtually all of which are allopathic.

 

[Ypo.]

Even when there were only 5 osteopathic schools, the average stats for accepted DO students were lower than for MD schools, so school proliferation can't be one of the reasons for lower average stats.

 

[Dr Sum Day]

2. DO schools look at the whole applicant, place a greater emphasis on volunteer, real life experience than do MD schools, and recongizes the fact that it takes a lot more than high MCAT and GPA to make a good doctor.

amen...have a smurfy day/night 🙂

 

[OnMyWayThere]

First of all the MCAT for DO schools (26) is only several points lower than state-supported MD schools (28-29), the GPA is around 3.4-3.5, also not much lower.

Reasons-

1. DO schools attract nontraditional students-who may have had families, jobs in undergrad, or didn't know they wanted to be a doctor from age 5, and as a result of this have slightly lower stats.

2. DO schools look at the whole applicant, place a greater emphasis on volunteer, real life experience than do MD schools, and recongizes the fact that it takes a lot more than high MCAT and GPA to make a good doctor.

These are really good and valid points

 

[docbill]

Demand = greater GPA and MCAT requirements.
If MD programs where not so much in demand the GPA and MCAT requiremts could be the same.

As we spread the words.. more and more people will be interested and will apply.. the application pool of higher GPAs and MCAT will increase.

It is odd how most of these links alway become a compare MD vs. DO links.
We should compare to DDS and DC and Law schools... and Engineering. Yeah.. that would be better.

 

[dr.z]

Demand = greater GPA and MCAT requirements.
If MD programs where not so much in demand the GPA and MCAT requiremts could be the same.

As we spread the words.. more and more people will be interested and will apply.. the application pool of higher GPAs and MCAT will increase.

It is odd how most of these links alway become a compare MD vs. DO links.
We should compare to DDS and DC and Law schools... and Engineering. Yeah.. that would be better.

That is interesting. If DO schools were in greater demand than allopathic schools, their averages would be higher despite looking at whole applicant.

Eventhough the averages tend to be lower, it is not by any means easy to get into DO schools either. People who graduate from DO school are just as capable as people that graduate from prestigious allopathic institution.

 

[Ypo.]

I hope that DO schools will always look at the whole applicant and not just rely increasingly on MCAT and GPA as they become more in demand (like MD schools do).

You don't have to be a genius to make it through medical school, it just takes average intelligence, determination and work ethic. Not to mention that GPA and MCAT scores are not even the most important part of being a doctor (what about compassion, motivation, people skills, dedication to humanitarian causes, volunteering experiences...???)

 

[Mr. Seeds]

Actually, even when there were only 5 osteopathic schools, the average stats for accepted DO students were lower than for MD schools, so school proliferation can't be one of the reasons for lower average stats, sorry.

That's funny, I don't recall saying that this was THE reason for lower scores. I said it is one factor, among many.

It is interesting that this same thread discusses the issue of demand, as though demand is somehow unrelated to proliferation.

Here's a little mental exercise for ya: If there are 200 applicants for 199 seats, all of which have to be filled, do you really think that the school will be able to be very selective in who it chooses? Christ, how can anyone possible even try and claim that the number of seats available is unrelated to competitiveness among applicants? Are you for real?

 

[Ypo.]

That's funny, I don't recall saying that this was THE reason for lower scores. I said it is one factor, among many.

It is interesting that this same thread discusses the issue of demand, as though demand is somehow unrelated to proliferation.

Here's a little mental exercise for ya: If there are 200 applicants for 199 seats, all of which have to be filled, do you really think that the school will be able to be very selective in who it chooses? Christ, how can anyone possible even try and claim that the number of seats available is unrelated to competitiveness among applicants? Are you for real?

Whoa, take it easy on me, killer!

I didn't accuse you of saying it was THE reason. I said I didn't think that proliferation of DO schools was one of the reasons because even when there were a smaller number of DO schools, the stats were still lower than average. I concur that it would be necessary to look at the proportion of applicants-to-seats for that time period...in order for my point to be valid.

DO schools look at the whole applicant-and it is their policy to look at the whole applicant. Now, they could just be lying because its better than just saying they accept applicants with lower stats cause its their only choice-but at least in the present they look at more than just MCAT scores and GPA. I know lots of people with subpar MCAT and GPA (by DO standards) who were accepted in September and October this year . September and October is very early to be accepted in the app cycle-and by these applicants stats, the schools could have put them on waitlists and just accepted those with average or above average stats, but they were accepted this early in part because of their outstanding ECs.

 

[Mr. Seeds]

Whoa, take it easy on me, killer!

I didn't accuse you of saying it was THE reason. I said I didn't think it was one of the reasons because even when there were a smaller number of DO schools, the stats were still lower than average. I concur that it would be necessary to look at the proportion of applicants-to-seats for that time period...in order for my point to be valid.

My point is that DO schools look at the whole applicant-and it is their policy to look at the whole applicant. Now, they could just be lying because its better than just saying they accept applicants with lower stats cause its their only choice-but at least in the present they look at more than just MCAT scores and GPA. I know lots of people with subpar MCAT and GPA (by DO standards) who were accepted in September and October this year . September and October is very early to be accepted in the app cycle-and by these applicants stats, the schools could have put them on waitlists and just accepted those with average or above average stats, but they were accepted this early in part because of their outstanding ECs.

Sorry 😳 I have a bad toothache, a midterm tomorrow for which I am woefully unprepared, two interviews this week, relationship... issues, and someone actually had the audacity to question my reasoning on an internet forum! 😛 😉
Let's just say it hasn't been the greatest day.

Yeah, I gets to go to MSUCHM on Thursday. Hopefully it goes better than my Wake interview.

On the brighter side, UMDNJ-SOM made their decision about me today, and I will hopefully hear some good news in the mail in the next few days.

 

[Ypo.]

Its OK, I get like that, too. 🙂

Good luck on your MSUCHM interview, and on your midterm.

I'm interviewing at MSUCHM on the 28th.

 

[docbill]

Well schools also want to increase there exam scores and get more research involved.... hence become more competitive and increase the ranking. THERE IS A RANKING.. otherwise no one would care. The pick of the crop will also become plentiful.

In the 21st century.. you have to have a strong base and understanding in Molecular medicine and Physiology, advanced diagnostic tools (no really some of this technology needs its own training course), and advanced therapeutic approaches.

You can only help the patient so much with compassion, motivation, and people skills. Intelligence is a must. I don't know how hard med school really is.. ask me again in 5 years. I do add however that nothing is impossible.

 

[Ratch]

my thoughts
1. limited exposure of osteopathic medicine overall within the US
2. the fact that if you are accepted into allopathic programs its an easier road post graduate, at least in a fair number of states, and those people that have higher scores are more likely to be considered by allopathic schools
3. a decline in past years in the total number of applicants to medical school in general