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M.S Biology: Thesis or Non-Thesis?
Started by prettyslick
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An MS is not a prereq for med school, nor is a thesis, but both may add some value to the right app. Are you doing this to overcome low undergrad grades? We need more info to advise, I think.
Well, primarily, I am doing this because as an international student, I need to stay in status (can't take ugrad like that....as an intl student..need to be in a "degree" program). Secondly, my gpa is 3.3 overall, ~3.2 science....so it is on the lower side. I just finsihed undergrad in December....i havent taken MCAT yet..plan to take it in MAY/JUNE and apply. I dont know what to do....please someone advise me! I am lost...
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Remember that a masters is effectively an E.C. to the ADCOMS. My vote is for non thesis since you
1) Better prove handling a course load
2) Have a better idea about when you can get out, and thus effectively apply to med school. It would be bad to get caught in the 6 month thesis writing purgatory and have to defer.
In that case have you considered taking more undergrad classes? Post-bacc work to boost your GPA would be more beneficial than a MS, the general consensus seems to be that med schools look at MS/PhDs as a EC and don't focus too much on the grades. And if you enroll as a 2nd bachelor's student that should let you keep your visa status. Of course if do decide to go for a MS, thesises can take unpredictably long. Just something to keep in mind.
Taking UG classes to boost your GPA would be more helpful.
Can you enroll for a second degree to keep your status?
There's nothing to say you need to earn that degree.
Can you enroll for a second degree to keep your status?
There's nothing to say you need to earn that degree.
I agree, if you can see about getting a second BA/BS. If that isn't an option (because of the requirement), I say go with non thesis. Thesis is good from a research standpoint, but unless that's what you want to do later in life it won't make a big difference to the ADCOMs. G'luck 
N
njbmd
Graduate school except for a SMP (Special Masters Program) which is essentially a non-thesis masters in physiology where you take first year medical school courses, is not going to help you either get into or do much in terms of enhancement of your competitiveness for medical school. Your uGPA is below the matriculant average for medical school and graduate work will not raise it. You need to do some postbacc work and you need to do extremely well in that post bacc work so that you can get yourself closer to that 3.6 average (and that's just average).
A masters in bio (thesis or non-thesis) is good for folks who want to work as biologists and contribute to that field. It's not a good grade enhancer which, is what you need at this point.
Needless to say, you need an excellent score on the MCAT and thus, good postbacc work likely will help you there especially courses like physio or biochem as they would help refresh some of your knowledge along with a good review course in order to do well on this very important exam.
The other problem with entering a graduate program (other than a SMP) is that you will have to finish that program before you matriculate. If you do a significant research project, it is not likely that you will finish before starting medical school and study for the MCAT within the time frame to be competitive for next year.
Also be aware that as an international student, most medical schools expect you to have higher than average grades/MCAT score for admission. Be sure that you have these two characteristics in addition to good extracurricular activities.
Right now, your first problem is staying in this country. Your second problem is getting yourself competitive to apply for medical school in this country if this is your ultimate goal. Try to take one thing at a time. If enrolling in a Masters in Biology keeps you in the country, then that is what you need to do but be aware that you must complete the degree (thesis or non-thesis) before you can matriculate into medical school. Also be aware that your masters degree is not going to make you more competitive (which is what you need in addition to staying in this country) and thus you need to find a way to take some post bacc work too.
njbmd and others, Thanks for your reply! Appreciate it. At this point I am seriously considering doing a second bachelors degree (I didnt think an international student could technically do a "second degree" but I just check with my intl student advisor..he said I can) Since I am an intl student, I can't just take classes at my conveineince. I have to enroll in a formal degree... I graduated with a degree in Biology..I would preferably ant to do another bachelors degree in two years. What do you think I could enroll in? Maybe Biochem? I want to take as many science classes as possible and boost that GPA.
I didnt think I could but I just found out I can enroll in a second degree...like if I take Biochem, I am hoping I can finish it in two years?
Ouch-that changes everything. As an international student, you must assume that none of your classes taken out of the country carry any weight to get into an American MD school. That means you should completely start over at an American university (4 year is the best) and take the following classes
1 full year of general chemistry with lab
1 full year of organic chemistry with lab
1 full year of biology with lab
1 full year of physics with lab
After that is done, you should have 60 credit hours at the American university having a large proportion of science/math upper level classes before you even consider applying. And when you apply, it really is best that you have good PR status (ideally citizenship)
Good luck!
What do you mean...take it all over again? I graduated from a 4 yr University in the U.S. I took all my pre-reqs here in the US...
Sorry-I assumed by international student seeking to go MS that you were trying to get into America via student visa. You don't have to retake, but make sure that your residency stats are iron clad so you can apply in the US and stay here (student visa may have a expiration window which closes after a B.S. some additional post-bacc classes, then med school on top of it)
I checked with the international advisor where I did my ugrad from. He said I can go for a "second degree" but it has to be a formal degree. I can't take classes at my convenience....should I take lets say 60 or so credit hours of science class at an ugrad rather than an MS in order to boost my ugrad GPA of 3.2?
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Yes-do another BS (however many hours it takes to pump up GPA) and make sure the grades are all A's (some classes can be "easy"-med schools take humanities classes seriously). Make sure that you have good EC, LORs, from the new experience.
Thanks. Yes, obviously I realize the importance of grades. It will take two years of all A's to make my uGPA to 3.5. Obviously, this is easier said than done. need to work hard...Does recent upward trend look good -- if I were to do a "second" BS degree..and do well in science classes, would it carry more weight? Also, so far MY ECs are: have volunteered in ER for 100 hours approximately and did research over the summer. What can I add to the ECs? Thanks for your help.
Anyone else?
If you are sure that you will be able to get into a US Medical school, then do a second bachelor's to improve your grades. Otherwise, do a non-thesis MS because then you can finish it in less time and if you end up having to get a job, you have potential for better pay (or in case you have to go back to your country, you have a higher degree to show for your time here).
I was in somewhat of a similar situation that I was an international student but I decided that it would be too difficult to try to get into medical school back then. So, instead I did a MS and then got a job after that working for three years at a major university in a great lab. I became a Permanent Resident while working at that university, then took the MCAT and applied to med schools. I will be starting in the fall.
Unfortunately as an international student, you have to perform much better than others and you are limited in the number of schools you can apply to. You can PM me if you want to discuss this some more.
