MA job at a naturopathic clinic ok?

[creampuffz]

Hello, I recently got a job as a Medical Assistant at a naturopathic medical clinic. There is also an M.D. at the practice.

Though, my main question is will this hurt my clinical experience EC when applying to M.D. programs?

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[M&L]

No, if you are smart about your essays .

 

[creampuffz]

No, if you are smart about your essays .

Thank you for your quick reply! Smart about my essays?

 

[M&L]

Thank you for your quick reply! Smart about my essays?

Yeah like instead of focusing about naturopathic clinics, talk about importance of providing quality care, be sensitive to needs of pts and respect their beliefs, etc .

 

[DNAJB6]

Most MDs I know think naturopaths are quacks. I guess you could argue it taught you how to not practice medicine.

 

[M&L]

Most MDs I know think naturopaths are quacks. I guess you could argue it taught you how to not practice medicine.

I would respectfully disagree- talking negatively about other professionals would make you look unprofessional . I’d say focusing on experience working with patients and their needs is better . Focus on positive . Talk about learning about alternative specialties , working as a team, etc

 

[M&L]

Also talk about how fortunate you feel about finding a medical position during pandemic , because it’s true . It’s a tough time

 

[gyngyn]

Naturopathy is not well-regarded by most physicians or scientists in the US.

 

[creampuffz]

Naturopathy is not well-regarded by most physicians or scientists in the US.

So will this hurt my application? What if I mention the M.D. that is at the practice?

 

[xffan624]

So will this hurt my application? What if I mention the M.D. that is at the practice?

There are multiple examples of MDs who have abandoned the science they learned to embrace quackery. I feel like many ADCOM's would judge this to be the case of this MD (whether true or not). What is the nature of this practice? Is it primary care, some variant of concierge/lifestyle medicine or something else?

 

[KnightDoc]

So will this hurt my application? What if I mention the M.D. that is at the practice?

I don't want to pretend to be an expert, BUT, if something has a crappy reputation in a profession I am trying to enter, I'd stay away from it rather than participating and then looking for something positive to spin about it when describing it. JMHO, but that's my amplification of the response you were given by a well respected adcom who definitely knows what she's talking about.

No need to debate the pros and cons of naturopathy, how lucky you are find anything during the pandemic, or how awesome it is that a MD is involved with your practice. If @gyngyn came across this in your app, it apparently wouldn't help you. She's saying her opinion is not an outlier. That's one answer to your question. There will be others with a different opinion. My question to you is, why would you risk having anything that might have a negative connotation in your application?

 

[creampuffz]

There are multiple examples of MDs who have abandoned the science they learned to embrace quackery. I feel like many ADCOM's would judge this to be the case of this MD (whether true or not). What is the nature of this practice? Is it primary care, some variant of concierge/lifestyle medicine or something else?

Primary care, and they mostly handout supplements.

 

[creampuffz]

I don't want to pretend to be an expert, BUT, if something has a crappy reputation in a profession I am trying to enter, I'd stay away from it rather than participating and then looking for something positive to spin about it when describing it. JMHO, but that's my amplification of the response you were given by a well respected adcom who definitely knows what she's talking about.

No need to debate the pros and cons of naturopathy, how lucky you are find anything during the pandemic, or how awesome it is that a MD is involved with your practice. If @gyngyn came across this in your app, it apparently wouldn't help you. She's saying her opinion is not an outlier. That's one answer to your question. There will be others with a different opinion. My question to you is, why would you risk having anything that might have a negative connotation in your application?

The only thing I could find without a certification.

 

[KnightDoc]

The only thing I could find without a certification.

Hey, I totally get it, and I don't know nearly enough to pass judgment. I'm just observing that writing about it could actually end up hurting you, which would be worse than having nothing and writing about how COVID left you unable to gain meaningful clinical experience. I won't risk having anything controversial in my application. YMMV.

 

[creampuffz]

Hey, I totally get it, and I don't know nearly enough to pass judgment. I'm just observing that writing about it could actually end up hurting you, which would be worse than having nothing and writing about how COVID left you unable to gain meaningful clinical experience. I won't risk having anything controversial in my application. YMMV.

Thanks, I will probably just stick with my hospital volunteering position instead then. I will then probably be able to find a medical scribe job sometime soon at the hospital I am at or a different one. I might briefly mention my MA experience and only talk about the patient care side.

 

[gyngyn]

What if I mention the M.D. that is at the practice?

If you need a job and this is the only thing you were able to find, take it.
I can't recommend putting it on your application, though.

 

[creampuffz]

If you need a job and this is the only thing you were able to find, take it.
I can't recommend putting it on your application, though.

Thank you so much! Going to stick to hospital volunteering and get a scribe job then.

 

[Goro]

Hello, I recently got a job as a Medical Assistant at a naturopathic medical clinic. There is also an M.D. at the practice.

Though, my main question is will this hurt my clinical experience EC when applying to M.D. programs?

Honestly, I would have a low opinion of you for having anything to do with such quackery.

 

[PreMedPerson1020]

Does this sentiment (not mentioning it/putting it on application) also apply to other non-MD/DO related health and wellness jobs, such as positions working with physical therapists, massage therapists, chiropractors, etc.? Or is the unease specific to naturopathy?

 

[DNAJB6]

Does this sentiment (not mentioning it/putting it on application) also apply to other non-MD/DO related health and wellness jobs, such as positions working with physical therapists, massage therapists, chiropractors, etc.? Or is the unease specific to naturopathy?

I think the others are of minimal value. Naturopath = negative value as it is reflective of your judgment when you list it on your application.

 

[Goro]

Does this sentiment (not mentioning it/putting it on application) also apply to other non-MD/DO related health and wellness jobs, such as positions working with physical therapists, massage therapists, chiropractors, etc.? Or is the unease specific to naturopathy?

The others are fine, except chiro I'm not personally crazy about either.

But naturopathy is outright pseudoscience.

 

[longhaul3]

Does this sentiment (not mentioning it/putting it on application) also apply to other non-MD/DO related health and wellness jobs, such as positions working with physical therapists, massage therapists, chiropractors, etc.? Or is the unease specific to naturopathy?

Chiropractic is also completely made up, and massage therapy is not relevant to medicine, but PT is wholly legitimate. The need for PT varies by medical specialty, but literally 100% of my patients in the hospital are seen by PT.

 

[Goro]

Chiropractic is also completely made up, and massage therapy is not relevant to medicine, but PT is wholly legitimate. The need for PT varies by medical specialty, but literally 100% of my patients in the hospital are seen by PT.

I can attest to the bolded!!!

 

[Deleted member 1077394]

I can attest to the bolded!!!

Those folks were a lifesaver for me at one point or for my dad at another! They help so many people improve their quality of life so much!

 

[PreMedPerson1020]

I can attest to the bolded!!!

So then, would working with a physical therapist who is employed at a naturopathic/alternative clinic but doing mainstream physical therapy there, for example, be good or bad to mention? I have a similar situation to this where I work at a place that offers some pseudo-scientific treatments, but the actual person I work alongside is a physical therapist who does legitimate work with the patients there.

 

[Goro]

So then, would working with a physical therapist who is employed at a naturopathic/alternative clinic but doing mainstream physical therapy there, for example, be good or bad to mention? I have a similar situation to this where I work at a place that offers some pseudo-scientific treatments, but the actual person I work alongside is a physical therapist who does legitimate work with the patients there.

Nope.

 

[PreMedPerson1020]

Nope.

Nope as in not good or not bad?

 

[LizzyM]

Based on your experience, what is your view of medicine/clinical services? Do you see something like prescribing and selling supplements using your MD license to be a good way to earn a very good living with good hours and relatively low risk of a malpractice suit? Is that your career goal? Do you have a different career goal but find no fault with those who give people what they want (hope, a magic bullet, a safety net) that may not be helpful but is not likely to be harmful and that provides those doctors with a good living and a comfortable work/life balance? What do you see when you apply your critical thinking skills to this type of clinical practice? These are the questions I'd love to ask at an interview if I ever had the opportunity to interview someone who worked as a pre-med in a setting such as the one described.

 

[Goro]

Nope as in not good or not bad?

Not good. Anything associated with quackery is bad,

 

[PreMedPerson1020]

Not good. Anything associated with quackery is bad,

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[ScrubswithnoSleeves]

Hello, I recently got a job as a Medical Assistant at a naturopathic medical clinic. There is also an M.D. at the practice.

Though, my main question is will this hurt my clinical experience EC when applying to M.D. programs?

I would hope any adcom would throw your application in the trash once they saw Naturopathy on there, but what do I know.

 

[rokshana]

Hello, I recently got a job as a Medical Assistant at a naturopathic medical clinic. There is also an M.D. at the practice.

Though, my main question is will this hurt my clinical experience EC when applying to M.D. programs?

Don’t mention it.

 

[rokshana]

Does this sentiment (not mentioning it/putting it on application) also apply to other non-MD/DO related health and wellness jobs, such as positions working with physical therapists, massage therapists, chiropractors, etc.? Or is the unease specific to naturopathy?

Wouldn’t mention chiropractor work.

 

[veedie]

Hello, I recently got a job as a Medical Assistant at a naturopathic medical clinic. There is also an M.D. at the practice.

Though, my main question is will this hurt my clinical experience EC when applying to M.D. programs?

Absolutely not! In a few years naturopathic medicine will be at forefront of Western medicine.

 

[Xyzcannon18]

Im going to disrespectfully disagree. Takes like this are always embedded in subtle racism. I think you could write beautiful essays about how naturopathy taught you about it’s importance in different cultural contexts and better equips you to be a more holistic and understanding physician to people of all backgrounds and medical traditions, especially those who are not trusting of biomedicine (rightfully so given ITS extremely racist history).

This person is asking what they should do about listing on their MD application though. I don’t disagree, you can certainly write about anything that you learn and what you take from things and what you choose not to take. Medicine like this is practiced in other cultures. But this person applying had an MD app for western medicine. You surely wouldn’t advise someone to mention or apply to take care of the elderly while detailing what you learned from beating the hell out of elderly people on the weekends. Not the same thing, but you get my point.
I wouldn’t be so quick to call racist/micro-aggression either, although the latter is probably true.

 

[Goro]

Like.... why would you hope that? Because you have some twisted belief, embedded in biomedical hegemony, that Western science is inherently superior to traditions and sciences—that have been the FOUNDATION of biomedicine— that have survived centuries despite colonialization + imperialism. That have provided hope and healing to many poor and communities of color both here and abroad, often because those communities do not have access to the care you are espousing. Sounds problematic and worrisome that you as a future doctor would not factor that into your treatment, evaluation, and understanding of patients as a whole.... sounds about white!

0/10.

 

[saratonin]

I highly recommend just not including that its a Naturopathic clinic. Its really not important, especially since an MD works there too. Youre getting clinical experience and working with patients and you get to see an MD in action. Thats the important stuff. If someone directly asks you if its a naturopathic clinic or if its impossible to leave out, DO NOT LIE. However, I can't fathom its something you even need to mention. Focus on patient care, empathy, bedside manner, and anything MD related (since youre applying to MD schools). DO NOT PUT DOWN OTHER PROFESSIONS (even if most people would agree with you). When people read your essays, they should leave with a positive feeling, as they will attribute that to you, so keep all of it positive!

 

[saratonin]

One more thing: if asked about naturopathic medicine, say something along the lines of "While I don't agree with all of the practices of naturopathic medicine and am applying to MD schools because I align with more evidence-based science, I think there are a lot of things I learned in naturopathy that I can take to an MD practice such as (and then list things you think are good, maybe: more holistic care, conservative prescribing of medications, encouragement of lifestyle changes over chemicals, etc.)

But again, you probably won't be asked, and you probably don't need to put it on the app. List the MD person as the contact on the AMCAS.

 

[PlantLover]

I attended naturopathic medical school for four years and am currently interviewing for MD programs this cycle.

Naturopathic medicine has five modalities: nutrition, counseling, herbal medicine, homeopathy, and physical medicine (similar to osteopathy). I avoided discussing homeopathy, and I focused on the lessons of low-force interventions, lifestyle change, nutrition, counseling, and my research interests (many drugs are derived from herbal medicines).

I did the naturopathic program to overcome visual disability, which I experienced in college as a result of an orbital tumor. The first two years emulated conventional medical school and prepared me for medical school very well. Further, I did this because of research interests and a desire to innovate cost-effectively, to help fight the massive health equity problems in our country.

I agree this is a delicate topic to address, but it can be done well. If this is the best clinical experience you can gain in a pandemic, I think it’s worth addressing. I really like saratonin’s comment above. If you would like an essay proof reader, who knows the cons and stigma of naturopathy well, feel free to DM me.

 

[THEBACKANDFORTH]

Make it an inside job and secretly convince all the patients to go back to real medicine.

Commitment to service

 

[Optimist Prime]

The first two years emulated conventional medical school and prepared me for medical school very well.

I attended naturopathic medical school for four years and am currently interviewing for MD programs this cycle.

Respectfully how do you know if it prepared you for medical school if you... aren't in medical school?

 

[Optimist Prime]

Two days ago I couldn't find a patients "endocrinologist" to add the referral to the notes. Finally after calling the patient back (it was a telemedicine visit) we find out the persons "doctor" was actually a naturopath. The second we hung-up two of the physicians just shake their head saying "idiots". I wouldn't want to risk a similar response from ADCOM members so leave it off the app.

 

[Xyzcannon18]

Two days ago I couldn't find a patients "endocrinologist" to add the referral to the notes. Finally after calling the patient back (it was a telemedicine visit) we find out the persons "doctor" was actually a naturopath. The second we hung-up two of the physicians just shake their head saying "idiots". I wouldn't want to risk a similar response from ADCOM members so leave it off the app.

Not the same, but I work at an ophthalmology clinic and a pt was stating that they were getting eye injections so we asked who their other ophthalmologist was and turns out they were seeing an acupuncturist and naturopath on the side. He reported seeing better after the injection from the acupuncturist and taking the vitamins suggested by the naturopath, when he said them both out loud I accidentally said “excuse me?” in disbelief for this particular problem.

 

[Tenk]

I would respectfully disagree- talking negatively about other professionals would make you look unprofessional . I’d say focusing on experience working with patients and their needs is better . Focus on positive . Talk about learning about alternative specialties , working as a team, etc

I respectfully disagree with your disagreement as I have never met an actual doctor who thought naturopaths were anything but quacks.

I’ve seen them kill children by missing basic stuff. I hate them.

 

[Tenk]

They also can kill themselves when they believe far too deeply into their views

a chiropractor I have known since I was a teen, always seemed the picture of health, never saw a doctor, keeled over from a stroke while playing with his 10 y/o daughter on Thanksgiving morning. He was 61

a close friend I first met in a post-bac become a colon therapist of all things and again ignored much of medicine. They caught the cancer far too late and she too passed away. She was 48 and left a 10 y/o son.

I believe it. I’ve actually met some pretty smart chiropractors who stick to musculoskeletal stuff and know their limits. I honestly don’t think naturopaths know what limits are.

 

[financetomedicine]

I am going to present a counterpoint here - I am only an intern so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
I feel like the attitude towards naturopaths you encounter here is similar to the insane hate for midlevels on the reddit residency forum.
I have seen naturopaths prescribe treatments that are somewhat bizarre, especially in the endocrinology realm, but I also think there is a reason patients seek them out, and that is because primary care has gone too far in the direction of pharmaceutical medications are the only "real" treatment.
90% of what I see in clinic (granted I am at a place that has a relatively high income, high education healthy, "worried well" kind of population) is functional disorders that stem for underlying anxiety disorders and a lot of these patients get a million dollar workup (endoscopies for functional abdominal pain, tons of labs for vague fatigue, huge rheum workups for random MSK stuff) and honestly would probably be better served by a naturopath who had a more holistic approach. Most of what these people need is less stress, better sleep, better diet, more exercise etc. I don't think all naturopaths are quacks. A lot of them have given my patients good advice on lifestyle changes. Sometimes I wish I could so the same, but the culture of allopathic medicine is to "medicalize" every problem when in a different time and place it would be accepted as a normal variant of life circumstances. I don't think it will be held against you if you can focus on the patient interactions and such. If it is a well paying position, in the midst of a pandemic it seems silly to me to turn down a job because some people are so judgmental. IMO you can always spin your experiences to be a positive.

 

[deleted1032897]

Important to classify the degree and licensing too. An ND is different than a chiropractor or a doctorate of Chinese Medicine. Vary WIDELY in extent of actual bio/physiological education and skills. I don't have many pet peeves, but I do have a friend from college wanting to pursue a doctorate of Chinese medicine (never had any clinical experience/scientific education besides sitting in on her naturopath dad's clinic a few times) who says we're both gonna be med students and physicians soon. I'm sorry, no anatomy and physiology, no biochem, no "doctor". This is a person who actively criticizes chemotherapy on social media, saying it's cruel when there's readily available natural remedies that treat cancer without all the side effects. But qualifies it by saying "I understand I have no background in this, BUT..." Hmmm. I guarantee no MD or DO wants to prescribe chemotherapy just to be cruel. Just be careful with presentation.

 

[THEBACKANDFORTH]

I am going to present a counterpoint here - I am only an intern so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
I feel like the attitude towards naturopaths you encounter here is similar to the insane hate for midlevels on the reddit residency forum.
I have seen naturopaths prescribe treatments that are somewhat bizarre, especially in the endocrinology realm, but I also think there is a reason patients seek them out, and that is because primary care has gone too far in the direction of pharmaceutical medications are the only "real" treatment.
90% of what I see in clinic (granted I am at a place that has a relatively high income, high education healthy, "worried well" kind of population) is functional disorders that stem for underlying anxiety disorders and a lot of these patients get a million dollar workup (endoscopies for functional abdominal pain, tons of labs for vague fatigue, huge rheum workups for random MSK stuff) and honestly would probably be better served by a naturopath who had a more holistic approach. Most of what these people need is less stress, better sleep, better diet, more exercise etc. I don't think all naturopaths are quacks. A lot of them have given my patients good advice on lifestyle changes. Sometimes I wish I could so the same, but the culture of allopathic medicine is to "medicalize" every problem when in a different time and place it would be accepted as a normal variant of life circumstances. I don't think it will be held against you if you can focus on the patient interactions and such. If it is a well paying position, in the midst of a pandemic it seems silly to me to turn down a job because some people are so judgmental. IMO you can always spin your experiences to be a positive.

Yes, but what you are describing could be called a health and wellness coach. Everybody should have a health and wellness coach. I want one too.

Naturopaths deserve the hate because for all that 'good advice they give', they also peddle placebos for hundreds of dollars, miss their patients' serious pathologies or mislead on treatment, and contribute to the anti-science/vaccination/GMO/etc idiocracy that is currently growing.

 

[financetomedicine]

Yes, but what you are describing could be called a health and wellness coach. Everybody should have a health and wellness coach. I want one too.

Naturopaths deserve the hate because for all that 'good advice they give', they also peddle placebos for hundreds of dollars, miss their patients' serious pathologies or mislead on treatment, and contribute to the anti-science/vaccination/GMO/etc idiocracy that is currently growing.

Just like there are good physicians and total quacks I think this is a bit of an overgeneralization. I don't think every naturopath falls in that boat...

 

[Optimist Prime]

Just like there are good physicians and total quacks I think this is a bit of an overgeneralization. I don't think every naturopath falls in that boat...

The problem is it’s not the norm for a physician to be a quack. It is the norm for a naturopath to be a quack.