Magical formula for how to get into a Top Medical School:

[medguy24]

I'm going to get bashed for this, but
Honestly people make getting into a top school more complicated than it actually is. Here is the magical "formula" that everybody says does not exist:

For Top tiers:

cGpa: 3.8
sGPA: 3.7

Mcat: 35 (12,12,11)

"Amazing" research (such as a SURF program at a top school in which you CONTINUE TO WORK on even after the program is over)

"Amazing" volunteer work ( volunteer for an EXTENDED PERIOD of time in a healthcare setting such as a hospital or nursing home)

"Amazing" shadowing (shadowing MULTIPLE doctors from multiple fields from multiple settings)

Amazing Extra curricular activities (be on three meaningful clubs and be the LEADER of one of them)

Amazing essay (something that is different from everybody else's and really causes you to STAND OUT and causes the reader to "feel" you. Or more clearly- as suggested by another user- make it personal.)

Amazing interview ( show great INTERPERSONAL SKILLS, show a PASSION and drive for medicine and helping people, and show why that SPECIFIC school is right for you)

And of course, apply EARLY!

That's how you get into a top medical school. "If that's true and that's all it takes to get into a top medical school why doesn't everyone do it??" Because it's not that easy to get a 3.8 GPA, 35 mcat, Amazing research, volunteer work, shadowing, extracurricular activities, essay and interview. That's why.
Only 5% of people who take the mcat get a 35 or above. And when you filter out those 5% who don't also have a 3.8 GPA, Amazing research, volunteer work, shadowing, extracurricular activities, essay and interview, your left with the few few people who do get into a top school.
Does following this rubric guarantee you'll get into every top school in the country? No. But, it does guarantee that if you apply very broadly to all the top schools you'll get into at least one of them.
The people who get into top schools are not "crazy, lucky, geniuses". There just people who know how to "play the game" well and do everything I stated above.
Good luck.
Let the "bashing" commence.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[625233]

 

[mimelim]

Everyone knows this. If you have the best qualities in every aspect of medical school admissions, you will get into your choice of school.

The bigger issue is that most people don't know what amazing research, volunteering, ECs, essay and interviews entail, much less how to do them. Congrats, you wrote a single line about each, peddling what is written in every thread on SDN.

If you are going to try to do something like this, at least have some sort of original content or something of substance.

I'll give it a 2/10, mainly because despite the overuse of quotation marks your grammar isn't half bad.

 

[Goro]

My learned colleague is being kind. Even more important, how many people are willing to DO what it takes???? I see tons of posts on SDN from people who want to go to the top 10/20/25/50 whatever, but yet do what's convenient, not what's necessary.

As I say to my 12 year old "words are easy, doing is hard".

And have an MCAT of 36+.

Everyone knows this. If you have the best qualities in every aspect of medical school admissions, you will get into your choice of school.

The bigger issue is that most people don't know what amazing research, volunteering, ECs, essay and interviews entail, much less how to do them. Congrats, you wrote a single line about each, peddling what is written in every thread on SDN.

If you are going to try to do something like this, at least have some sort of original content or something of substance.

I'll give it a 2/10, mainly because despite the overuse of quotation marks your grammar isn't half bad.

 

[Silverflash]

Yes, if you excel at literally every facet of medical school applications, you will get into a top program. Surprise!

 

[medguy24]

My learned colleague is being kind. Even more important, how many people are willing to DO what it takes???? I see tons of posts on SDN from people who want to go to the top 10/20/25/50 whatever, but yet do what's convenient, not what's necessary.

As I say to my 12 year old "words are easy, doing is hard".

And have an MCAT of 36+.

I never said doing that is easy. Quite honestly I don't think I can do it myself. I wrote this post to show that it is "possible" definataly not easy but "possible".
Every day I see another post or user say "it's impossible to get into a top school" "it's all luck"
I wrote this post to say that: no it's not impossible and no it's not all about luck. But rather it's very possible. Again it's hard, but as with everything that's worth it in life- it's not going to be easy.

 

[medguy24]

Everyone knows this. If you have the best qualities in every aspect of medical school admissions, you will get into your choice of school.

The bigger issue is that most people don't know what amazing research, volunteering, ECs, essay and interviews entail, much less how to do them. Congrats, you wrote a single line about each, peddling what is written in every thread on SDN.

If you are going to try to do something like this, at least have some sort of original content or something of substance.

I'll give it a 2/10, mainly because despite the overuse of quotation marks your grammar isn't half bad.

Firstly, no not everybody knows this. If everybody knew this we wouldn't have people making posts and asking on a daily basis "how do I get into a top school". I even have some friends who don't know.
Second I didn't explain everything in "super detail" because I don't have all day and I thought that the explanation I gave was sufficient and the rest was self explanatory.
For example, for "amazing research" I basically said "do a program at a top school and continue to do work on it even after the program is over" I think that's sufficient to understand what amazing research is.
And lastly, thanks for the 2/10- honestly. I expected a -2/10 so the 2/10 actually means a lot to me

 

[Goro]

It's also possible to win the Powerball, but that doesn't mean we should all rush and buy Lotto tickets, does it?

It's also possible to become a Navy Seal and get onto Team 6, so should we advise people to go join the Navy?

Most people come here for realistic advice, not hugs and kisses, or Polyannaish rah-rahs either.

So I'll summarize your OP. You wanna get into a top medical school? Be outstanding in everything you do.

I never said doing that is easy. Quite honestly I don't think I can do it myself. I wrote this post to show that it is "possible" definataly not easy but "possible".
Every day I see another post or user say "it's impossible to get into a top school" "it's all luck"
I wrote this post to say that: no it's not impossible and no it's not all about luck. But rather it's very possible. Again it's hard, but as with everything that's worth it in life- it's not going to be easy.

 

[medguy24]

It's also possible to win the Powerball, but that doesn't mean we should all rush and buy Lotto tickets, does it?

It's also possible to become a Navy Seal and get onto Team 6, so should we advise people to go join the Navy?

Most people come here for realistic advice, not hugs and kisses, or Polyannaish rah-rahs either.

So I'll summarize your OP. You wanna get into a top medical school? Be outstanding in everything you do.

With all due respect, those are two totally different scenarios. Winning the power ball requires "luck"
Nothing I mentioned you have to do requires luck. It just requires hard work. No very very hard work. But zero luck.
So I'll summarize my own OP and say "work very hard at everything you do and work as hard as you need to, to excel"
Again, as you said "words are easy but doing is hard" I totally agree.

 

[blkgrnblkylw]

I never said doing that is easy. Quite honestly I don't think I can do it myself. I wrote this post to show that it is "possible" definataly not easy but "possible".
Every day I see another post or user say "it's impossible to get into a top school" "it's all luck"
I wrote this post to say that: no it's not impossible and no it's not all about luck. But rather it's very possible. Again it's hard, but as with everything that's worth it in life- it's not going to be easy.

Why is 'definitely' such a hard word for so many people to spell? I feel like I've seen every possible spelling under the sun. It's like people aren't even trying to get it right.
No offense to you at all OP, sorry. Just saw it and felt like being a jackass.

 

[medguy24]

Why is 'definitely' such a hard word for so many people to spell? I feel like I've seen every possible spelling under the sun. It's like people aren't even trying to get it right.
No offense to you at all OP, sorry. Just saw it and felt like being a jackass.

Lol don't worry. I've actually been yelled at for spelling words wrong for a while now.
But to answer your question, it's because spell check won't correct the word -_-

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

It does require some luck. You have to be relatively fortunate to be given the aforementioned opportunities. Many hardworking, intelligent people aren't so lucky...

With all due respect, those are two totally different scenarios. Winning the power ball requires "luck"
Nothing I mentioned you have to do requires luck. It just requires hard work. No very very hard work. But zero luck.
So I'll summarize my own OP and say "work very hard at everything you do and work as hard as you need to, to excel"
Again, as you said "words are easy but doing is hard" I totally agree.

 

[karayaa]

I'm going to get bashed for this, but
Honestly people make getting into a top school more complicated than it actually is. Here is the magical "formula" that everybody says does not exist:

For Top tiers:

cGpa: 3.8
sGPA: 3.7

Mcat: 35 (12,12,11)

"Amazing" research (such as a SURF program at a top school in which you CONTINUE TO WORK on even after the program is over)

"Amazing" volunteer work ( volunteer for an EXTENDED PERIOD of time in a healthcare setting such as a hospital or nursing home)

"Amazing" shadowing (shadowing MULTIPLE doctors from multiple fields from multiple settings)

Amazing Extra curricular activities (be on three meaningful clubs and be the LEADER of one of them)

Amazing essay (something that is different from everybody else's and really causes you to STAND OUT and causes the reader to "feel" you)

Amazing interview ( show great INTERPERSONAL SKILLS, show a PASSION and drive for medicine and helping people, and show why that SPECIFIC school is right for you)

That's how you get into a top medical school. "If that's true and that's all it takes to get into a top medical school why doesn't everyone do it??" Because it's not that easy to get a 3.8 GPA, 35 mcat, Amazing research, volunteer work, shadowing, extracurricular activities, essay and interview. That's why.
Only 5% of people who take the mcat get a 35 or above. And when you filter out those 5% who don't also have a 3.8 GPA, Amazing research, volunteer work, shadowing, extracurricular activities, essay and interview, your left with the few few people who do get into a top school.
Does following this rubric guarantee you'll get into every top school in the country? No. But, it does guarantee that if you apply very broadly to all the top schools you'll get into at least one of them.
The people who get into top schools are not "crazy, lucky, geniuses". There just people who know how to "play the game" well and do everything I stated above.
Good luck.
Let the "bashing" commence.

You forgot "apply early"
For the PS, I would substitute: personal for amazing. It will be most different than others when it most reflects you and your own personality/experience/vision.
And as @Cyberdyne 101 said, achieving all these requires opportunities, which not everyone encounters.

 

[medguy24]

You forgot "apply early"
For the PS, I would substitute: personal for amazing. It will be most different than others when it most reflects you and your own personality/experience/vision.
And as @Cyberdyne 101 said, achieving all these requires opportunities, which not everyone encounters.

You are most certainly correct. I forgot about applying early, I'll add that. Thank you!

 

[LizzyM]

If there are 20 schools in the top 20, there are >2000 applicants every year who get into a top 20 school.

It can be done. It does require being among to top 5% of all applicants.

 

[medguy24]

It does require some luck. You have to be relatively fortunate to be given the aforementioned opportunities. Many hardworking, intelligent people aren't so lucky...

Well, I think we can both agree that getting high grades and test scores is 100% hard work. While having rich parents to pay for tutors and courses are great and make it easier, it's not required and it really just comes down to working hard.
Amazing volunteer work: many hospitals around the country have open slots to do volunteer work- and it's not competitive at all to get them. So no luck here.
Amazing shadowing: google "doctors in my area" and you'll get a huge list of doctors and it just comes down to cold calling all of them until someone agrees to allow you to shadow them. Or better yet go to YOUR OWN doctors and ask them if you can shadow them or if they know someone available. Again no luck needed
Amazing research. You need to apply to a top schools SURF program and do research there. To get into one if these programs all you basically need are really high grades, amazing essays and interview. Or if you can't do that find a professor at your own college that's willing to do research with you and then slowly work your way up to getting a top position somewhere. High grades plus a lot of previous research experience plus great essays, great interview, great LOR, plus applying broadly, almost Keats will end up with a good research program. Again no luck needed.
Amazing extra curricular activities. You just need to be a leader of a club. If you can't even do that become a founder of your own club that way you'll be a leader. Again no luck needed
Amazing essay and interview and LOR . No luck needed- self explanatory.
There you go. You don't NEED to be put in the right situations to do these things. There still possible without them. It will just require more hard work to the already hard work

 

[Blue Blood]

Mcat: 35

From someone who has a 35, a 35 isn't so "great." It's pretty much 1 to 3 points bellow most top 10.

To be "awesome" or "great" you have to fist surpass the average..

 

[Mad Jack]

From someone who has a 35, a 35 isn't so "great." It's pretty much 1 to 3 points bellow most top 10.

To be "awesome" or "great" you have to fist surpass the average..

You'll likely get into one of them with a 35 and all of your other app being perfect.

But yeah, basically op's formula is "be perfect in every way." Easier said than done.

 

[kaizera12]

.

 

[GomersGoToGround]

You don't have to do research at a top school or SURF program to get into a a top school.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Hanging around here makes me feel like I should have aimed higher.

 

[sunflower18]

I really disagree with the idea that being involved in three clubs, even leading one, constitutes "amazing extracurriculars". I feel that becoming deeply involved with things you are passionate about and that may extend outside your university sphere is much more valuable. I do not feel that involvement with a typical college club would or should be seen as remarkably impressive, especially if it is done just to check boxes.

And I also agree with @Cyberdyne 101. Some people don't have medical insurance, and thus don't have physicians of their own to contact. Some cities or areas may not have as many opportunities as others. Some people must work full time to pay for college, leaving little to no time for volunteering or shadowing or low pay research positions. While most of these things can be attained by most people if they work hard, there is an undeniable element of being fortunate enough to have opportunities around you.

 

[medguy24]

If there are 20 schools in the top 20, there are >2000 applicants every year who get into a top 20 school.

It can be done. It does require being among to top 5% of all applicants.

Exactly.
There are 68k people who take the mcat each year. The top 5% of those people get a 35 or above. That's 4300 people. Take out the people who don't have a high gpa, research, volunteer work, shadowing, extra curricula's, essay, interview, LOR, or simply don't want to go to a top school. And your left with the about 2000 people that get into top schools.
As LizzyM said "it can be done"

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

From someone who has a 35, a 35 isn't so "great." It's pretty much 1 to 3 points bellow most top 10.

To be "awesome" or "great" you have to fist surpass the average..

I really disagree with the idea that being involved in three clubs, even leading one, constitutes "amazing extracurriculars". I feel that becoming deeply involved with things you are passionate about and that may extend outside your university sphere is much more valuable. I do not feel that involvement with a typical college club would or should be seen as remarkably impressive, especially if it is done just to check boxes.

And I also agree with @Cyberdyne 101. Some people don't have medical insurance, and thus don't have physicians of their own to contact. Some cities or areas may not have as many opportunities as others. Some people must work full time to pay for college, leaving little to no time for volunteering or shadowing or low pay research positions. While most of these things can be attained by most people if they work hard, there is an undeniable element of being fortunate enough to have opportunities around you.

Having American born, middle to upper class parents helps, too. The verbal section and all of that writing is supposedly very challenging if you grew up in a home in which English wasn't the primary language.

 

[medguy24]

From someone who has a 35, a 35 isn't so "great." It's pretty much 1 to 3 points bellow most top 10.

To be "awesome" or "great" you have to fist surpass the average..

A 35 is great and is good enough for any school. No school is going to reject you for having a 35. However, it won't fix a low gpa or no research.

 

[medguy24]

To all the people commenting on
Poverty or non american parents, etc.
Of course these things do put you at a disadvantage, and it makes your life and work significantly more difficult. I was never saying everyone has an equal amount of work to do. It's true that some people have to do more work to attain the same things. It sucks. But that's the way life is. However, while that does put you at a disadvantage and makes your work much harder, it's still possible. Luck is still not necessary.
Luck makes your life MUCH easier but it's not NECESSARY.

 

[Blue Blood]

A 35 is great and is good enough for any school. No school is going to reject you for having a 35. However, it won't fix a low gpa or no research.

Your post is about having a spectacular app. that no school can refuse.

So no a 35 won't get you rejected, but at a top 10 with averages at 36+ it won't do you any favors either.

 

[medguy24]

I really disagree with the idea that being involved in three clubs, even leading one, constitutes "amazing extracurriculars". I feel that becoming deeply involved with things you are passionate about and that may extend outside your university sphere is much more valuable. I do not feel that involvement with a typical college club would or should be seen as remarkably impressive, especially if it is done just to check boxes.

And I also agree with @Cyberdyne 101. Some people don't have medical insurance, and thus don't have physicians of their own to contact. Some cities or areas may not have as many opportunities as others. Some people must work full time to pay for college, leaving little to no time for volunteering or shadowing or low pay research positions. While most of these things can be attained by most people if they work hard, there is an undeniable element of being fortunate enough to have opportunities around you.

I agree. being deeply involved in your extra curricular is obviously better. I was just giving an example for people who didn't know.
And again I agree that those people are at a disadvantage. And I agree that you do need to get lucky to be born into a better household. However, you don't need to get lucky to get in and to do the things I mentioned. You'll just need to work harder than everyone else.

 

[Blue Blood]

Just checked out your post history OP and loled to myself.

 

[medguy24]

Your post is about having a spectacular app. that no school can refuse.

So no a 35 won't get you rejected, but at a top 10 with averages at 36+ it won't do you any favors either.

Well when I said you needed a 35 I didn't say you needed it to help you. I said you needed it because it was required.

 

[kaizera12]

.

 

[medguy24]

Just checked out your post history OP and loled to myself.

Lol this is my brothers account. He's in high school. I'm in college. I go to a college far away from home and am home for winter break. He showed me SDN and I spent a good amount of time on it over the last week and went crazy over what people were saying so I posted this post.
And now I'm kinda curious what my brother posted.

 

[medguy24]

Luck is necessary for some. I'm an exception to getting an acceptance into an Ivy medical school this cycle with below average stats; orphaned and homeless for most of my life and worked 60 hours a work to support myself through my undergraduate career. But I definitely have peers who were more disadvantaged than I am who cannot pursue their dreams anymore. And don't say that it is still possible for them. You are undermining their situations and conditions by doing so without even knowing what they are going through.

What percent of people who want to go to a top medical school are you speaking of?

 

[Doogie17]

From someone who has a 35, a 35 isn't so "great." It's pretty much 1 to 3 points bellow most top 10.

To be "awesome" or "great" you have to fist surpass the average..

even a 37 and a 4.0, good ECs and research, gets several pre-interview rejections and silence from many other schools.

 

[kaizera12]

.

 

[sunflower18]

Well when I said you needed a 35 I didn't say you needed it to help you. I said you needed it because it was required.

I don't have a 35 and I interviewed at several "top" medical schools. It is certainly not a requirement.

 

[medguy24]

I don't have a 35 and I interviewed at several "top" medical schools. It is certainly not a requirement.

Your right I worded it wrong. None of the things I said were by any means a requirement. Many people-actually pretty much everyone- who gets into a top school gets into one without doing everything I stated above. I just meant it as a guideline for what you should strive to have. Buts it's by no means a requirement.

 

[Ismet]

I never said doing that is easy. Quite honestly I don't think I can do it myself. I wrote this post to show that it is "possible" definataly not easy but "possible".
Every day I see another post or user say "it's impossible to get into a top school" "it's all luck"
I wrote this post to say that: no it's not impossible and no it's not all about luck. But rather it's very possible. Again it's hard, but as with everything that's worth it in life- it's not going to be easy.

Of course it's possible. My school interviews ~800 people each year, all of whom are qualified on paper for admission. The person saying it's impossible does not have a competitive application for those schools, and thus justifies it by putting the blame on the system and not on the fact that he has a less-than-stellar application.

 

[sunflower18]

Luck is necessary for some. I'm an exception to getting an acceptance into an Ivy medical school this cycle with below average stats; orphaned and homeless for most of my life and worked 60 hours a work to support myself through my undergraduate career. But I definitely have peers who were more disadvantaged than I am who cannot pursue their dreams anymore. And don't say that it is still possible for them. You are undermining their situations and conditions by doing so without even knowing what they are going through.

This. I don't think it's conducive or fair to suggest that hard work is enough to achieve anything. It's a nice idea, but it's simply not realistic. So many people from disadvantaged backgrounds work incredibly hard -- surely much harder than I, from a privileged upbringing, am able to fully appreciate. To suggest that they just need to work harder, and that their difficulty in attaining opportunities is somehow their fault for not working hard enough, is not healthy.

 

[medguy24]

This. I don't think it's conducive or fair to suggest that hard work is enough to achieve anything. It's a nice idea, but it's simply not realistic. So many people from disadvantaged backgrounds work incredibly hard -- surely much harder than I, from a privileged upbringing, am able to fully appreciate. To suggest that they just need to work harder, and that their difficulty in attaining opportunities is somehow their fault for not working hard enough, is not healthy.

Your right. What I said dose not apply to everyone. Some people are unfortunately born into a condition where it becomes impossible. But overall for 95% of cases that's not the case.

 

[Amba]

Depends what you call "top tier." I assume you are referring to top 20 or top 10 research institutions.

cGpa: 3.8
sGPA: 3.7

3.70 sGPA is pretty low for a lot of the top tiers with averages 3.85+. Won't exclude you, but certainly won't help.

Mcat: 35 (12,12,11)

Again, somewhat low for top 10 schools. Will it automatically exclude you? No. But it certainly won't help at schools where the average is 37-38.

"Amazing" research (such as a SURF program at a top school in which you CONTINUE TO WORK on even after the program is over)

Lol. SURF =/= "amazing research." Amazing research is publishing and presenting your own work and having a LOR from a PI that validates your contributions.

"Amazing" volunteer work ( volunteer for an EXTENDED PERIOD of time in a healthcare setting such as a hospital or nursing home)

I wouldn't call this "amazing" volunteer work, but it is certainly necessary.

Amazing Extra curricular activities (be on three meaningful clubs and be the LEADER of one of them)

Lol.

And of course, apply EARLY!

Of course.

The process is very unpredictable. This is coming from someone who exceeded what you listed in almost every category. I am currently attending a "top 10", but until I was taken off the waitlist, I was planning on attending my good (but not great) state school. The biggest thing that I have noticed in my classmates is that everyone is exceptional at something non-medically related.

 

[dellprecision]

From someone who has a 35, a 35 isn't so "great." It's pretty much 1 to 3 points bellow most top 10.

To be "awesome" or "great" you have to fist surpass the average..

I know I'm probably going to get bashed for this, but when I first saw my MCAT score (36), I actually sighed in disappointment before deciding that it wasn't worth it to re-take it.

 

[medguy24]

Depends what you call "top tier." I assume you are referring to top 20 or top 10 research institutions.



3.70 sGPA is pretty low for a lot of the top tiers with averages 3.85+. Won't exclude you, but certainly won't help.



Again, somewhat low for top 10 schools. Will it automatically exclude you? No. But it certainly won't help at schools where the average is 37-38.



Lol. SURF =/= "amazing research." Amazing research is publishing and presenting your own work and having a LOR from a PI that validates your contributions.



I wouldn't call this "amazing" volunteer work, but it is certainly necessary.



Lol.



Of course.

The process is very unpredictable. This is coming from someone who exceeded what you listed in almost every category. I am currently attending a "top 10", but until I was taken off the waitlist, I was planning on attending my good (but not great) state school. The biggest thing that I have noticed in my classmates is that everyone is exceptional at something non-medically related.

By top tier I was referring to a top 20-30 school. And when I said amazing I didn't mean outstanding I was stating what was enough/required.

 

[Afford]

I think the letters of recommendation are one of the most important thing because even if you have a perfect application, other people's opinions have to back up that perfect application.

 

[Shams al Deen]

By top tier I was referring to a top 20-30 school. And when I said amazing I didn't mean outstanding I was stating what was enough/required.

Top 25-30 admissions isn't the same as top 10 imo. I still consider 1-30 top tier but I'd say top 10 is tier 1 and 11-30 is tier 1a. For the top 10 schools I absolutely think big time research is essentially a prerequisite, whereas this is not the case for the other top tier schools.

The numbers 10 and 30 are arbitrary, so I just mean the top 10 and 30 range.

 

[GomersGoToGround]

Top 25-30 admissions isn't the same as top 10 imo. I still consider 1-30 top tier but I'd say top 10 is tier 1 and 11-30 is tier 1a. For the top 10 schools I absolutely think big time research is essentially a prerequisite, whereas this is not the case for the other top tier schools.

Are you defining "big-time" as big name (NIH, Scrips, etc.)? If so, then I wouldn't say it's a pre-req for either group.

If you look at the CVs of those students who get accepted to top 10s, sure, many of them have "big-time research".

But it's self-selecting. Usually, it's the students with outstanding application packages that seek out such big research, while many others do a few semesters or so, but no presentations/posters/pubs. They have an outstanding app to frame their research.

Yes, big gigs may offer more resources, including name recognition.

But they really only care that you did lots of research, big name or not. Someone with involvement in multiple projects, or with many pubs and presentations/posters from podunk state school is an outstanding candidate, no matter where they apply, and if they are rejected, it won't be because their research wasn't "big-time".

If that's not what you were referring to, then consider this post as just more information for this thread.

 

[Shams al Deen]

Are you defining "big-time" as big name (NIH, Scrips, etc.)? If so, then I wouldn't say it's a pre-req for either group.

If you look at the CVs of those students who get accepted to top 10s, sure, many of them have "big-time research".

But it's self-selecting. Usually, it's the students with outstanding application packages that seek out such big research, while many others do a few semesters or so, but no presentations/posters/pubs. They have an outstanding app to frame their research.

Yes, big gigs may offer more resources, including name recognition.

But they really only care that you did lots of research, big name or not. Someone with involvement in multiple projects, or with many pubs and presentations/posters from podunk state school is an outstanding candidate, no matter where they apply, and if they are rejected, it won't be because their research wasn't "big-time".

If that's not what you were referring to, then consider this post as just more information for this thread.

Agreed. By "big time", I just meant significant contribution and dedication to research on their resume. Much bigger deal at top 10 than top 30.

 

[GomersGoToGround]

Agreed. By "big time", I just meant significant contribution and dedication to research on their resume.

Ahh, then we are in agreement! I figured, so I edited my post to ensure that I didn't wrongly assume what you meant.

Cheers!

 

[Hospitalized]

Thanks for describing like the top 1% of all applicants for us.

Our lives don't work like an outline of a perfect applicant. There are obstacles, mistakes, issues. Not very many people are naturally inclined to be leaders. Some people don't have an affinity for research. Few are able to pull multiple EC's while maintaining a 3.5+.

Troll feeding is over.

 

[altblue]

Are you defining "big-time" as big name (NIH, Scrips, etc.)? If so, then I wouldn't say it's a pre-req for either group.

If you look at the CVs of those students who get accepted to top 10s, sure, many of them have "big-time research".

But it's self-selecting. Usually, it's the students with outstanding application packages that seek out such big research, while many others do a few semesters or so, but no presentations/posters/pubs. They have an outstanding app to frame their research.

Yes, big gigs may offer more resources, including name recognition.

But they really only care that you did lots of research, big name or not. Someone with involvement in multiple projects, or with many pubs and presentations/posters from podunk state school is an outstanding candidate, no matter where they apply, and if they are rejected, it won't be because their research wasn't "big-time".

If that's not what you were referring to, then consider this post as just more information for this thread.

I agree, but I'd just like to add that the quality/quantity of the research/pubs/posters doesn't necessarily reflect the student as a potential researcher.

An extreme example, a lot of research in the physical sciences takes years to publish.

Hell, even biomed science research isn't quick either.

If the PI or postdoc the student works under isn't competent, the student isn't likely to have impressive things to discuss in a poster or show off a pub, even if they've done their job. I'm admittedly a bit biased because I've written off trying MD/PhD partially for this mentioned reason.

I'm at a research powerhouse, but even I recognize that lower-ranked or smaller schools often do not present their students with the "sufficiently autonomous" and consistent research positions med schools love. Summer programs then?

So it sounds like there may be other "factors" at work for the magical formula...

\rant