Make my decision for me, in earnest

[confusednontrad]

What would you do if you were 26 with sincere hope for wife and kids by your 29th bday?

Go to highly ranked medical school for 15k/year? Then residency etc.

Work from any location in the world while learning the language, and make 75k per year with plenty of time for family?

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[Winged Scapula]

Do you have a prospect for this wife?

Why not go to medical school if that's your dream, and make more than $75K/year with time for family?

 

[confusednontrad]

no prospect for a wife. just my "plan" i guess

i have to say, my dream is not to be a doctor. it is to do something i love. and i hope medicine becomes that. i worry that what i will love is spending time with family, regardless of how much i like the work, and that medicine will take up my time.

 

[minstral]

given your comments you should avoid med school.
just because u can doesnt mean you should.

 

[Winged Scapula]

no prospect for a wife. just my "plan" i guess

Hmmm...never thought of it as something to plan for, but rather something you hope to happen. Then again, maybe my lack of planning is why I'm still single!

i have to say, my dream is not to be a doctor. it is to do something i love. and i hope medicine becomes that. i worry that what i will love is spending time with family, regardless of how much i like the work, and that medicine will take up my time.

Do you have some job prospects where you can work less hours, doing something you love as much as medicine (or presumably will) and make as much money? If you do, you should do that, because those are rare opportunities. But nearly every job, especially professional careers, entails working more than 40 hours per week. So regardless of what you end up doing, unless you have some line on a 10 hr/week job which makes $75K/year, will "take up [your] time."

They have these things in medicine called "lifestyle specialties" - specialties in which you make a good living and have time to have a life. There are even some non-lifestyle specialties like surgery in which you can work fewer hours per week (ie, working at a VA, doing a subspecialty).

At any rate, if your priority is your family, then spending as much time with them as possible will be a goal regardless of whether you go to medical school or travel around the world. Medicine can be inflexible at times (ie, during residency you have to show up, and can't necessarily take vacation when *you* want) but once you finish training, there is a lot more flexibility.

I might see what happens when you are ready to go to medical school and see if that wife has appeared, and what her thoughts are about it. She might have just as demanding a career and not be home when you get there.

 

[Shinken]

What would you do if you were 26 with sincere hope for wife and kids by your 29th bday?

Go to highly ranked medical school for 15k/year? Then residency etc.

Work from any location in the world while learning the language, and make 75k per year with plenty of time for family?

Those questions are so personal and situation-specific that only you can answer them. Sorry.

People will answer them with their own personal situation and viewpoint, but it's doubtful their situations will apply equally to you.

Good luck to you. It's nice to be young and have choices. The older you get and the more of a "life" you get (career, kids, ...) the less freedom of choices you'll have (but funny enough, the happier you'll be). OK, that's too philosophical and deep, even for an idiot like me. Enough.

 

[confusednontrad]

So regardless of what you end up doing, unless you have some line on a 10 hr/week job which makes $75K/year, will "take up [your] time."

This is the good problem I have. I can work from any location worldwide with broadband internet. I work 2 hrs a day as a day trader, make low 6 figs in a good year, who knows in a great year bla bla bla. This gives me such freedom that to give it up is very hard. No boss, no time constraints, no location constraints, but:

It has no income guarantee -- far from it, I could lose money. But I haven't yet in 5 years. I've saved the money I've made. Last year was my best year.

ps -- thanks for your responses so far, and for indulging my good problem

 

[Shinken]

I can work from any location worldwide with broadband internet. I work 2 hrs a day as a day trader, make low 6 figs in a good year, who knows in a great year bla bla bla.

Are you hiring partners?

(OK, seriously though, I've learned that when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is too good to be true).

 

[confusednontrad]

(OK, seriously though, I've learned that when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is too good to be true).

exactly. you don't see too many 35+ year old day traders. it is not, over the long haul, likely to be remain lucrative, unfortunately. although so far so good.

eh, whatever. i am tired of trying to choose the best option for me. i've set myself up for medical school and via that an important, intellectually challenging, and useful career. at the same time as lucking out with an easy lifestyle, portable job that makes money seem cheap. i really have no clue which path is "better", probably medicine in terms of money and satisfaction with myself. i am just worried medicine will dominate my life and reduce my chances to really enjoy my family given that i will graduate in my early thirties. young children + residency scares me, as my time will not be my own and those (hypothetical) kids will be grown before i know it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Ya know...you don't have to go to medical school now. It is not at all uncommon to go into medicine as a second career.

Let's say you start working on meeting that wife and she has a couple of kids while you are in medical school. If you choose a shorter residency or one with better hours, you could be home with them sooner rather than later, and you'd have a few more years to cash in on day trading.

While we may be envious of your flexibility, in truth that can be paralyzing. Having too many choices can be just as bad as having very few.

Since you want someone to make your decision for you:

- work a couple more years as a day trader, saving your money
- go to medical school
- if it still floats your boat, go into residency
- somewhere along the way meet a nice young woman with whom to have children
- live life as you enjoy; if its medicine, great...if not, quit and do something else.

I'd bet the vast majority of people who do not enjoy their careers in medicine either feel trapped because of the high debt load, worked when reimbursements were high and now feel cheated with the reductions or never really liked it but continued for some misguided reason.

 

[DarthNeurology]

Hmmm...never thought of it as something to plan for, but rather something you hope to happen. Then again, maybe my lack of planning is why I'm still single!



Do you have some job prospects where you can work less hours, doing something you love as much as medicine (or presumably will) and make as much money? If you do, you should do that, because those are rare opportunities. But nearly every job, especially professional careers, entails working more than 40 hours per week. So regardless of what you end up doing, unless you have some line on a 10 hr/week job which makes $75K/year, will "take up [your] time."

They have these things in medicine called "lifestyle specialties" - specialties in which you make a good living and have time to have a life. There are even some non-lifestyle specialties like surgery in which you can work fewer hours per week (ie, working at a VA, doing a subspecialty).

At any rate, if your priority is your family, then spending as much time with them as possible will be a goal regardless of whether you go to medical school or travel around the world. Medicine can be inflexible at times (ie, during residency you have to show up, and can't necessarily take vacation when *you* want) but once you finish training, there is a lot more flexibility.

I might see what happens when you are ready to go to medical school and see if that wife has appeared, and what her thoughts are about it. She might have just as demanding a career and not be home when you get there.

It is pretty amazing that Winged can work both as a surgeon and also have time to write the equivalent on an encylopedia's worth of advice on studentdoctor.net. Unless she has one of those voice recognition software programs so she can post and do surgery at the same time.

I think surgery is in a way easier than medicine, i.e. less paperwork because fewer patients per day, i.e. a surgeon does maybe 4-5 operations a day, must go by quick and relatively less taxing on the brain in terms of working out frustrating little details like discharge planning etc . . . for maybe 6 patients a day.

Surgeons sure make it seem hard, but I think there is a motivation to make it look super hard

 

[Winged Scapula]

It is pretty amazing that Winged can work both as a surgeon and also have time to write the equivalent on an encylopedia's worth of advice on studentdoctor.net. Unless she has one of those voice recognition software programs so she can post and do surgery at the same time.

1) I take no call and work less hours than most general surgeons
2) My office has an EMR so SDN is always open on my desktop; I do not post from the OR (sterility concerns you know)
3) I type fast
4) I don't know anyone here yet so what else is there to do at 1000 at night?

I think surgery is in a way easier than medicine, i.e. less paperwork because fewer patients per day, i.e. a surgeon does maybe 4-5 operations a day, must go by quick and relatively less taxing on the brain in terms of working out frustrating little details like discharge planning etc . . . for maybe 6 patients a day.

Except that not having residents, I have to do it myself. But you're right...its not too taxing but I venture there is just as much paperwork - insurance stuff, coding and billing, pre and post op paperwork, disability forms, letters to consultants, PCPs, dictation review, pathology and radiology review, etc.

Surgeons sure make it seem hard, but I think there is a motivation to make it look super hard

What would that motivation be? I have no interest in making it look hard, the cool ones make it look easy.

 

[DrDre311]

I think surgery is in a way easier than medicine

The number of cases varies from day to day, but not only do we have to operate (spending a great deal of time on a foreign skill set which is not developed in medical school), we have call, clinic, large censuses with patients in the unit, patients on the floor, discharge ****, mountains of paperwork/dictations, conferences, presentations, blah blah blah.

Not only do surgeons have to be adept technically and know detailed operative anatomy with variants that medicine docs have never seen, a good surgeon has excellent knowledge of perioperative medicine. Surgeons have to do all the same stuff as medicine doctors in addition to operating all day.

 

[DarthNeurology]

1) I take no call and work less hours than most general surgeons
2) My office has an EMR so SDN is always open on my desktop; I do not post from the OR (sterility concerns you know)
3) I type fast
4) I don't know anyone here yet so what else is there to do at 1000 at night?



Except that not having residents, I have to do it myself. But you're right...its not too taxing but I venture there is just as much paperwork - insurance stuff, coding and billing, pre and post op paperwork, disability forms, letters to consultants, PCPs, dictation review, pathology and radiology review, etc.



What would that motivation be? I have no interest in making it look hard, the cool ones make it look easy.

I've answered cell phones of surgeons in OR so I am sure you could get a medical student to stand by a computer with "student doctor network open on the desktop" and reply to threads. Such a conversation would be:

Dr. Winged: "Pass me the Alice and some peanuts. Student! What's the latest thread on General Residency?"

Student: "Some thread about General Residency, FrayedSuture wants to know if a Step 1 score of 182 is good enough for neurosurgery at Standford."

Dr. Winged (throwing scissors at wall in general direction of medical student): "I said an Alice not the scissors, and respond to FrayedSuture's thread saying that they have a snowball's chance in Phoenix in getting neurosurgery at Standford with that score, . . . "

hehe

Let's see what else could Winged do at 10:00 pm at night:

1. Watch 10 pm nightly news
2. Watch a movie
3. Read Journal articles online
4. Buy night vision goggles to watch the coyotes across the street
5. Watch surgery on Discovery Channel and make comments about what is being done wrong
6. Start a neighborhood watch program and do the 10 pm graveyard shift each day
7. Stake out the local 7-11 for any suspicious activity and become a partime sheriff deputy.
8. Take up a hobby like doing pottery late at night in the shape of human organs
9. Learn to speak a foreign language by chatting with people in France who going about their daily business while we in the US would normally sleep.
10. Tape episodes of cash-cab and watch them in the evening or do crossword puzzles.

 

[Blade28]

Moving to Pre-Allo as this thread deals with pre-med issues. Med students and residents can contribute in that forum as well.

 

[searun]

This is the good problem I have. I can work from any location worldwide with broadband internet. I work 2 hrs a day as a day trader, make low 6 figs in a good year, who knows in a great year bla bla bla. This gives me such freedom that to give it up is very hard. No boss, no time constraints, no location constraints, but:

It has no income guarantee -- far from it, I could lose money. But I haven't yet in 5 years. I've saved the money I've made. Last year was my best year.

ps -- thanks for your responses so far, and for indulging my good problem

Most day traders eventually lose their butts. A friend of mine lost his entire $100,000 inheritance in about 3 months day trading. For most traders, it is like going to Vegas and playing craps. Most professional mutual fund managers struggle to beat the market and justify their management fees.

But if you are the next Warren Buffett, then stick with the stock market and forget about med school.

 

[leftmid]

i'd go ahead search for a good elementary school somewhere near the "highly ranked medical school for 15k/year."

 

[wanttogohome]

Not to be rude, but was 75 K mentioned as a positive? Absolutely go to medical school.

As a side, my entire family works in finance/wall st. etc...Something I learned at a very young age was that the potential to make A LOT of money is there, but is not even close to guaranteed. Further, your salary and earning potential, depending on your specific position of course, vary drastically from year to year and on the market, dow, etc...

I, personally, am very attracted to the stability of a medical career. While this wouldn't be something to discuss in an interview, I believe there is no other career that offers such a clear trajectory towards a final goal with the potential (still-no matter what cynics say) to earn a very very nice living.

my 2 cents. Also, based on your description of your personal and family goals, I think medicine would be a better fit. That may sound strange, but if you are going into business, you must be cut out for uncertainty and variation.

 

[Narmerguy]

Go to highly ranked medical school for 15k/year? Then residency etc.

Do you mean go to a highly ranked medical school while making 15k/year after all your tuition and fees, go to a highly ranked med school while making 15k/year before you've paid tuition and stuff, or do you mean go to a med school that costs 15k a year?

 

[chemolupusMD]

It is very simple. The question is DO YOU WANT TO BE A DOCTOR?! if u r in it for the money or prestige, just do the other thing, u might even be happier having a family and making wut u want to make. But if u really worked ur butt of to get in to med school and become a doc, then go to med school.

 

[sunny1]

no prospect for a wife. just my "plan" i guess

i have to say, my dream is not to be a doctor. it is to do something i love. and i hope medicine becomes that. i worry that what i will love is spending time with family, regardless of how much i like the work, and that medicine will take up my time.

If your dream isn't to be a doctor then go to business school (much shorter time commitment) and find better paying work for a company in management perhaps.

I'm not saying you'll make as much money as you would as a doctor, but you don't sound very enthusiastic about medicine and it's a bad, long road for you if that's the case.

You're certainly not going to meet any women staying at home daytrading. But you are more likely to meet a woman in grad school or working in a larger company.

As far as the 29 yo goal for marriage and kids, you need to stop thinking about it. It will happen when it happens and, in the meantime, you don't want to give off the air of desperation as that won't help your chances.

 

[nsx]

i have to say, my dream is not to be a doctor. it is to do something i love.

I think you're making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. You seem to want stability and financial security more than anything else, and that can be found in many careers besides medicine. How are you going to get through the long hours of residency without some kind of passion for the work? Do you really want to be over your head in debt before you realize medicine hasn't "grown on you" as you seem to be hoping?



Out of curiosity, what happens when day traders are this indecisive on the job?

 

[Orthodoc40]

you could get a medical student to stand by a computer with "student doctor network open on the desktop" and reply to threads. Such a conversation would be:

Dr. Winged: "Pass me the Alice and some peanuts. Student! What's the latest thread on General Residency?"

Student: "Some thread about General Residency, FrayedSuture wants to know if a Step 1 score of 182 is good enough for neurosurgery at Standford."

Dr. Winged (throwing scissors at wall in general direction of medical student): "I said an Alice not the scissors, and respond to FrayedSuture's thread saying that they have a snowball's chance in Phoenix in getting neurosurgery at Standford with that score, . . . "

Anyway, OP, do yourself a BIG favor and don't bother w/med school. If it's not your dream, there is no reason to spend so many years of your life, plus so much money both cost-wise, and not-earning-a-decent-living-for-at least 4 years-wise. If you're going to resent the time you have to work as a physician as keeping you from being with your family, it can just exaggerate the price you paid.

 

[metalhead1023]

Me personally if I was handed the 75k job I would take it, but I'm not going to tell you how to live your life thats not the way you should look for advice. But I will say you need to soul search and think in the long run what would benefit your family and you, but still you need to also think about what would you like to do. Meaning if you want the lavish lifestyle of a doctor then by all means pursue that, keeping in mind you can give your future children a great education and I don't know what you and your wife want but if your were a doctor you could let your wife stay home which would in turn keep your children and wife happy and keep a tighter family. But the on the other hand if you want adventure and to keep your mind busy, travel. It would also open your family and your minds to other cultures and customs, which too would benefit your family in amazing ways. I would say your a lucky man if you have these two options, they are both great paths to take. Just do whats right for you.