Make my decision!!

[joeb712]

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Does anyone have any advice about Purdue and it's curriculum. I did get accepted to both Purdue and Illinois. I am waiting to hear from Western and UPEI. My top choice righ now is Western, but people are yelling at me for that! What is everyone's opinion about Western, and is attending Purdue something I should seriously consider?

Any info would help me out alot!!!

 

[chickenboo]

One thing that scared me off Western was the fact (and this is from someone who had interviewed/toured there, and an actual Western student) that they ended one of their contracts with a vet hospital that they had students rotate through (won't name names, but a very highly-regarded hospital) because the vets and technicians there "were teaching their students too much". That was from the Western student. I think knowing how to look up info. for yourself is a great and necessary skill, but I also think that vet students have a lot to learn from more experienced people. The other piece of info. was that they don't provide you a booklist--you're supposed to figure out what references to use on your own. I personally would like some guidance from faculty about which references are good and which are bad...as we all know, not all references are created equal. Those are some issues, as well as some more personal ones I have with them (no teaching hospital/no desire to have a teaching hosp., Banfield, "reverence for life" thing)...it's just not the school for me. That being said, it's also the perfect school for some people, so you just have to figure out what "feels" best to you, and which school offers what you want to get out of your vet school experience. A lot of people love the PBL format, the reverence for life policy, and rotating through different private hospitals. It's totally a personal thing.

 

[LynnKat]

I loved Western when I toured. I like the PBL and Reverence for Lie. I have mixed feelings about the lack of a teaching hospital. On the one hand I think a variety of experiences are great and you could get a lot out of them. On the other, I like consistency and the idea of a centralized teaching hospital with clinical faculty.

I think one of the attractions for me to Western is the fact that as they said at the interview, because they are building a reputation they have a huge investment in each student. If Western was not on the other side of the country from me, I think it might be my first choice. Right now I'm leaning toward Penn and doing some serious looking at Tennessee, but my decsion is in no way made.

Good Luck with your decision!

 

[tygris]

So I keep hearing everyone mention Banfield as a negative to Western U... call me completely ignorant, but what exactly is the deal with Banfield?

And I totally agree with you about the text book thing. I think that's the biggest factor that's making me lean away from Western and towards Michigan. But the fourth year at Western does leave a LOT of room for doing exactly what YOU want to do with your career, with less emphasis on required rotations... but still... I dunno, I just think there's not quite enough direction for me personally. But you're right that it is a great fit if that's your thing 🙂

One thing that scared me off Western was the fact (and this is from someone who had interviewed/toured there, and an actual Western student) that they ended one of their contracts with a vet hospital that they had students rotate through (won't name names, but a very highly-regarded hospital) because the vets and technicians there "were teaching their students too much". That was from the Western student. I think knowing how to look up info. for yourself is a great and necessary skill, but I also think that vet students have a lot to learn from more experienced people. The other piece of info. was that they don't provide you a booklist--you're supposed to figure out what references to use on your own. I personally would like some guidance from faculty about which references are good and which are bad...as we all know, not all references are created equal. Those are some issues, as well as some more personal ones I have with them (no teaching hospital/no desire to have a teaching hosp., Banfield, "reverence for life" thing)...it's just not the school for me. That being said, it's also the perfect school for some people, so you just have to figure out what "feels" best to you, and which school offers what you want to get out of your vet school experience. A lot of people love the PBL format, the reverence for life policy, and rotating through different private hospitals. It's totally a personal thing.

 

[StealthDog]

There was a great Western thread on the about.com boards a while ago... here's a link: Western thread

Here's what a Western student had to say about the Banfield thing:

"Oh, the Banfield question. I love this one🙂. Yes, Banfield has a small animal teaching clinic on campus that students use the first and second year to practice clinical skills (techincal skills and client interview), but there is also another clinic on campus as well that pre-clinical students are able to get exposure to practicing clinical skills (this one is sponsored by Hill's). There are no Banfield vets here besides the one that runs the Banfield teaching clinic...none of our faculty are Banfiled vets, most of them are the standard DVM, PhDs. I look at this as an opportunity for students to be exposed early on to the differences between corporate and private practice. Banfield gives a lot of money to other vet schools and make regular visits to other vet schools to recruit students to join their practice after graduation. They did the same to Western in order to have a small presence on campus. However, this is a way for Western students to see if corporate medicine would be right for them very early rather than be swayed by the monetary advantages that Banfield offers new vet school grads. For instance, I would never go work for Banfield, but they do offer through the on campus teaching clinic the opportunity to practice a lot of clinical skills before you start clinical rotations. This is one of the very common misconceptions about this school that I think most people have until they really look into the program."

HTH!

 

[chris03333]

One thing that scared me off Western was the fact (and this is from someone who had interviewed/toured there, and an actual Western student) that they ended one of their contracts with a vet hospital that they had students rotate through (won't name names, but a very highly-regarded hospital) because the vets and technicians there "were teaching their students too much". That was from the Western student. I think knowing how to look up info. for yourself is a great and necessary skill, but I also think that vet students have a lot to learn from more experienced people. The other piece of info. was that they don't provide you a booklist--you're supposed to figure out what references to use on your own. I personally would like some guidance from faculty about which references are good and which are bad...as we all know, not all references are created equal. Those are some issues, as well as some more personal ones I have with them (no teaching hospital/no desire to have a teaching hosp., Banfield, "reverence for life" thing)...it's just not the school for me. That being said, it's also the perfect school for some people, so you just have to figure out what "feels" best to you, and which school offers what you want to get out of your vet school experience. A lot of people love the PBL format, the reverence for life policy, and rotating through different private hospitals. It's totally a personal thing.

That is sooooo wrong (I am a third year student now BTW.) The clinics that were taken out were done so by request of the AVMA council to make less sites used in order to make the rotation experiences more similar. So that is rumor. As for the book list thing we are PBL students. Part of that is to learn how to get resources that are reliable. Yeah it was a pain to get used to but it helps a lot now when I am in clinics and need to know something I can find my answer MUCH faster then if I was spoon fed info before. Also our class (and hopefully classes that follow us) have compiled a book list which we have the most popular books (you still need to go to primary literature after all things in our field change all the time) and give it out as part of our Big Sib/Little Sib program.

 

[chickenboo]

That is sooooo wrong (I am a third year student now BTW.) The clinics that were taken out were done so by request of the AVMA council to make less sites used in order to make the rotation experiences more similar. So that is rumor.

Maybe. I'm just repeating what I heard from another Western student. Maybe the rumors are actually floating around at Western, or there's different sides to it, etc.

Anyway, as far as tygris' question about Banfield in general, my problems with it in regards to Western are that students rotate through it during their clinical rotations. I disagree with Banfield and the medicine they practice in general, and I wouldn't want to be exposed to that as part of my curriculum. As far as specific reasons for disliking Banfield: their vaccine protocols, implanting new microchips before scanners were widely available to read them, medical-oriented decisions made by people other than DVMs (i.e. establishing protocols that are followed throughout the hospital system), some of their pain management protocols, vets' inability to exercise enough autonomy at many practices (I know not all Banfields are like this, but most are!)--an example, you must follow their vaccine protocol, even if you disagree with it (which many vets do); you have to use their drugs and don't get your choice--an example, propofol is their most widely, if not exclusively, used drug to induce, and propofol is often not the best inducing agent to use. There's also some issue in CA about an improper complaint to the state board--don't know enough to give you the details, but my understanding is that Banfield has behaved unethically in that situation. That's all I can think of for now.

I think you can argue that it's beneficial to be exposed to a lot of different ways to practice medicine, and maybe that's the perfect situation for some. For me, I'll have the rest of my life to experience that; I think vet school is the time to be exposed to the practice of the highest quality medicine, and make adjustments from there. Is it realistic? No, of course not. There are a lot of people who can't afford that kind of treatment, and you better believe you're going to see a MUCH higher caseload in private practice. But I think it's a great starting point, and it's what I want out my education. You're more than welcome to disagree with me 😉 I again just want to emphasize that this is my opinion, and certainly NOT the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth (so help me God). 🙂

 

[chickenboo]

As for the book list thing we are PBL students. Part of that is to learn how to get resources that are reliable. Yeah it was a pain to get used to but it helps a lot now when I am in clinics and need to know something I can find my answer MUCH faster then if I was spoon fed info before. Also our class (and hopefully classes that follow us) have compiled a book list which we have the most popular books (you still need to go to primary literature after all things in our field change all the time) and give it out as part of our Big Sib/Little Sib program.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I hardly think that getting book recommendations from professors is being "spoon-fed" information. I think it just gives you a good, solid reference that you can turn to when you need to quickly look up an answer in clinics. And I think it's a priority for all vet schools (at least in theory 😛 ) to produce vets that can find information for themselves, tell a good journal article from a bad one, etc.

 

[tygris]

Actually, I think that vet students should know how to find information for themselves and find good journal articles (and be able to successfully navigate primary literature) BEFORE they go to vet school. But perhaps that's just me, with my bias of having had 2 years of graduate school before going to vet school this fall 🙂

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I hardly think that getting book recommendations from professors is being "spoon-fed" information. I think it just gives you a good, solid reference that you can turn to when you need to quickly look up an answer in clinics. And I think it's a priority for all vet schools (at least in theory 😛 ) to produce vets that can find information for themselves, tell a good journal article from a bad one, etc.

 

[chickenboo]

Actually, I think that vet students should know how to find information for themselves and find good journal articles (and be able to successfully navigate primary literature) BEFORE they go to vet school. But perhaps that's just me, with my bias of having had 2 years of graduate school before going to vet school this fall 🙂

Wholeheartledy agree with you, tygris. Unfortunately I think teaching this skill is often overlooked at the undergraduate level, at least at the type of institution I went to--with so much emphasis on memorization and weeding people out in undergrad classes. I think vet schools try to make a last ditch effort to educate in this regard for that reason.

 

[chris03333]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I hardly think that getting book recommendations from professors is being "spoon-fed" information. I think it just gives you a good, solid reference that you can turn to when you need to quickly look up an answer in clinics. And I think it's a priority for all vet schools (at least in theory 😛 ) to produce vets that can find information for themselves, tell a good journal article from a bad one, etc.

I am referring to the fact that at most vet schools you buy lecture notes from your professor for your study and probably do not even buy a book until clinical years (in that case you get a recommendation from your professor, which I would guess will be the book they use for their notes.)

 

[HorseyVet]

This is maybe a little OT, but...What exactly the "Reverence for life policy"...I'm guessing by the word "policy" that this means something a little more than the obvious....

Thanks

 

[chris03333]

This is maybe a little OT, but...What exactly the "Reverence for life policy"...I'm guessing by the word "policy" that this means something a little more than the obvious....



Thanks

It is not a "policy" rather a "philosophy"
http://www.westernu.edu/veterinary/principles.xml
Scroll down to #3 it will answer your questions 🙂

 

[chris03333]

Maybe. I'm just repeating what I heard from another Western student. Maybe the rumors are actually floating around at Western, or there's different sides to it, etc.

Probably but seriously show me any school that has no rumors spread around. You have to think about what you want to believe. All of the third year sites which were taken out are being used for fourth year sites. And think about it this way, Why would you hire someone to be a teaching hospital then take them out of the program because they are teaching too much I wonder if the student you were referring to is an underclassperson. I highly doubt anyone in my class (current 3rd year students only ones in clinical rotations yet) would say that. It was probably just speculation. We all know how the telephone game works

 

[weeziefive]

It is not a "policy" rather a "philosophy"
http://www.westernu.edu/veterinary/principles.xml
Scroll down to #3 it will answer your questions 🙂

Well the one reason I didnt apply to Western is that I felt at times they were hippocrites. The whole reverence for life issue is more of a philosophy that actual policy because I know for a fact that they received animals from the local animal shelter (Inland Valley). And I do have a problem with them being so pro-active for animals, yet they were going to be doing FIV studies on cats a few years ago. I dont know if that fell through or not. Those things bother me because I believe in research. Without it veterinarians would not be able to practise. And as for the banfield ordeal. I know a 2nd and 3rd year and she said they are actually trying to get rid of banfield or make it to where students have more of an option of where to do clinical rotations. And even if you do have to do clinical rotations you are still able to work at other clinics. This summer we had a Western student working at our clinic and also doing her banfield rotations.

And as for banfield being corporate and practising bad medicine. There are thousands of vets who are way worse then them. Most of the students plan on not practising at Banfield when they are done. So what is the harm if you plan on getting additional experience outside of Banfield?

Oh and about the Proph being used as an inducing agent, we use it on every animal we induce. Animals wake up a lot better from anaesthesia and it is a lot easier and safer to work with. As for the place I work at, pretty much all of the doctors are Boarded in Critical Care and keep up with new advances. So I trust their decision. (Sorry for going off topic)

(Final Note I I Swear)-The people I know who are attending Western love it! And I know a lot of my friends are anxiously awaiting their letters from Western this week. As for me, its not my thing. Hell, Im going across the world to vet school. Many people think Im crazy, but I look at it as a great oppurtuity, one I may never get a chance to do again.

 

[chickenboo]

And as for banfield being corporate and practising bad medicine. There are thousands of vets who are way worse then them. Most of the students plan on not practising at Banfield when they are done. So what is the harm if you plan on getting additional experience outside of Banfield?

True that there are many vets who practice "bad" medicine. I don't think that Banfield necessarily practices "bad" medicine as a whole; I think that some of their practices are questionable. As far as "what is the harm..." why be exposed to that when you're still learning (or at all, really)? I think you should know it's out there and be aware of what's being done at those hospitals, but I don't think that environment belongs in a curriculum. I don't even think it's the best idea to not have a teaching hospital, period. But again, this is all JMO, like I said. I know a lot of ppl disagree with me on that, and there's legitimate arguments on both sides. I'm not out to say that something is "wrong" and something else is "right", just offering an opinion.

Oh and about the Proph being used as an inducing agent, we use it on every animal we induce. Animals wake up a lot better from anaesthesia and it is a lot easier and safer to work with. As for the place I work at, pretty much all of the doctors are Boarded in Critical Care and keep up with new advances. So I trust their decision. (Sorry for going off topic)

First of all, I'm not saying propofol should never be used, but that there are some potential problems with it. While animals do go down and wake up a lot faster, propofol can have pronounced cardiodepressant effects and can decrease systemic vascular resistance (which can in turn lead to hypotension)--not what I'd call the "safest". Like every drug, it has its advantages and disadvantages. I'm no expert on anesthesia, but maybe there are some situations where the advantages of having the animal wake up sooner are outweighed by the potential risks. But I would bet that there are going to be others where the possible negative effects outweigh the good...I think that's why it's a bad idea to have one inducing drug available. In any case, everyone has their favorite drugs to use...to some extent it's just a matter of personal preference. It's like that saying (which I'm going to butcher)...ask 5 vets their opinion (on a procedure or treament, i.e.), get 10 answers.

 

[chris03333]

Well the one reason I didnt apply to Western is that I felt at times they were hippocrites. The whole reverence for life issue is more of a philosophy that actual policy because I know for a fact that they received animals from the local animal shelter (Inland Valley). And I do have a problem with them being so pro-active for animals, yet they were going to be doing FIV studies on cats a few years ago. I dont know if that fell through or not. Those things bother me because I believe in research. Without it veterinarians would not be able to practise. And as for the banfield ordeal. I know a 2nd and 3rd year and she said they are actually trying to get rid of banfield or make it to where students have more of an option of where to do clinical rotations. And even if you do have to do clinical rotations you are still able to work at other clinics. This summer we had a Western student working at our clinic and also doing her banfield rotations.

And as for banfield being corporate and practising bad medicine. There are thousands of vets who are way worse then them. Most of the students plan on not practising at Banfield when they are done. So what is the harm if you plan on getting additional experience outside of Banfield?

Oh and about the Proph being used as an inducing agent, we use it on every animal we induce. Animals wake up a lot better from anaesthesia and it is a lot easier and safer to work with. As for the place I work at, pretty much all of the doctors are Boarded in Critical Care and keep up with new advances. So I trust their decision. (Sorry for going off topic)

(Final Note I I Swear)-The people I know who are attending Western love it! And I know a lot of my friends are anxiously awaiting their letters from Western this week. As for me, its not my thing. Hell, Im going across the world to vet school. Many people think Im crazy, but I look at it as a great oppurtuity, one I may never get a chance to do again.

For one we have never recieved animals from Inland Valley. I do not know where you got that info from but it would be interesting to know what you heard (what capacity did we supposedly receive animals for?)
As for the reverence for life and research, I would argue that it is a animal welfare issue. If you are doing research on an animal disease to advance veterinary medicine, you are in fact doing it for animals. I am not one to get into the animal rights arguement (My stance is that if I believed in that philosophy I would not be a vet). Anyway that is an issue that many people have differing opinions about and I respect it.

 

[Anggel]

Does anyone have any advice about Purdue and it's curriculum. I did get accepted to both Purdue and Illinois. I am waiting to hear from Western and UPEI. My top choice righ now is Western, but people are yelling at me for that! What is everyone's opinion about Western, and is attending Purdue something I should seriously consider?

Any info would help me out alot!!!

I'm a first year at Purdue and I think it's a great school. While we have PBL implemented in our curriculum, as Western does, on a personal level I know I enjoy self-directed learning but also benefit from the traditional lecture style as well. I know I would not have done as well at Western in an entirely PBL-based curriculum, however, one of my best friends absolutely adores the program and is doing quite well.

I hear from some people that the faculty at Purdue give off a sort of elitist impression at times, but professors always treat us with the utmost respect and are more than willing to assist us in any way possible.

My classmates are great and there's definitely a sense of comraderie. I had my fill of cutthroat competition with pre-meds in undergrad so I was relieved to find that at Purdue it's more about working towards a common goal of obtaining a DVM rather than merely competition for the highest GPA.

As a CA resident the climate isn't my favorite and West Lafayette isn't exactly a booming metropolis but Chicago is only a 2 hour drive and Indy is an hour to the south. Vet school doesn't exactly provide ample time for a booming social life but it's nice to escape to a bigger city on some weekend day on occasion.

To make a final decision I recommend possibly looking at your area of interest and determining which school can offer you the best program. If you're interested in food animal production med or pathology I think Purdue can offer you a lot. If on the other hand you have an interest in exotics/wildlife I wouldn't expect much from Purdue.

Overall I am very satisfied with my education at Purdue thus far. Certainly, there are drawbacks to every program but the advantages far outweigh the drawbacks. I'm sure you'll make the right decision. Good luck!