Making requests for days off on holidays - is it awful?

[deleted836128]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Our group has a policy of not requesting holidays off unless there’s some extenuating circumstance so that holidays can get divided up fairly...but there are people who do it, anyway. Some put in requests for ALL holidays off. Some people have even done it when they’re brand new (and should expect to work more holidays because they don’t have seniority). So technically when the computer generates the schedule they’ll be granted those days off (of course we schedulers can change it, but it’s clear that they’re trying to work the system). Makes my blood boil. My thinking is that it’s pretty selfish because you’re basically saying “I don’t wanna work so one of my colleagues would have to” and that you and your family are more important than your colleagues and their families. Anyway, it happens every year, and the other scheduler and I never fail to be mindblown. It usually does happen with recent hires (even if they have EM experience and know that it’s not all daisies and rises when it comes to holiday scheduling).

What’s your guys’ take on this and what’s your group’s policy on requests?

 

[RPedigo]

We “rank” the holidays in order that we would like to have them off. Then the preferences get matched to the individual, like a holiday match list. This is independent of the schedule requests. It seems to work decently well - everyone works holidays, but only the ones they don’t care as much about.

 

[deleted836128]

We “rank” the holidays in order that we would like to have them off. Then the preferences get matched to the individual, like a holiday match list. This is independent of the schedule requests. It seems to work decently well - everyone works holidays, but only the ones they don’t care as much about.

That’s actually what we do. Doesn’t stop people from requesting all holidays off in the scheduling system. Such a ballsy move.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

We have an A and B rotation with 6 holidays. We send our schedule requests to a human doctor, and the human doctor inputs that information into the schedule system and then manually works around any problems. The human doctor also reminds us who is scheduled to work the holidays in our upcoming blocks before we make our request. Holiday swaps frequently occur, generally in group email chains. It's fair and it works. No one in our group has scheduling seniority, unless they made a deal with the group (i.e. the nocturnists, the medical directors, etc.) we have the same request rules, new grad or oldest doc in the group.

 

[BoardingDoc]

That’s actually what we do. Doesn’t stop people from requesting all holidays off in the scheduling system. Such a ballsy move.

If you already have a hand system for determining who gets holidays off, why does this matter? Maybe those people are requesting the holiday off as a way of ensuring that their first holiday request was noted. Maybe they're dinguses. Either way, you can just set your scheduling system to not accept vacation requests for certain days, or if that isn't possible, you can just have the admin reject all requests for certain days after the fact.

 

[EM Junkie]

Our group allows one request for a summer holiday (Memorial Day, July 4th, Labor Day), and one request for a winter holiday (Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years). You may be given more than one but you can’t ask for it. All other requests during this period are monitored.

No restrictions on minor holidays (Flag Day, Mother’s Day, etc), but if one day became a problem the scheduler steps in.

Sounds like in the situation the OP mentions there’s a lack of leadership on behalf of the Medical Director to stomp that behavior out. The new folks are learning it from someone.

 

[Groove]

I give them a list of major holidays and have them rank which ones they prioritize and I take into consideration who worked last year. I tell them if they schedule a plane ticket or hotel without clearing it with me beforehand for one of the major holidays like Thanksgiving, Christmas or New Years, they do it at their own risk and are 100% responsible for getting someone to work their shifts if I so happen to schedule them on that date.

So far, most people are pretty reasonable and don't abuse the system. It's been surprising to me that so many of the new grads think they should get all the major holidays off....and start hyperventilating if they have to work more than 3 nights. I have the fewest problems with my old timers.

Scheduling physicians is like herding cats.

 

[Apollyon]

Such a ballsy move.

As I learned in military school (before it went co-ed): "There's a fine line between balls and stupidity."

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Things should be evenly distributed in whatever system you decide is best

At one CMG site I worked, the medical director worked no nights or holidays. Another non em boarded old timer somehow got the same arrangement.

If you're not locums are are thus getting guaranteed hours you should share holidays / weekends / nights the same as everyone else. If you think your entitled to something else (don't care about your age or position) then get out if the department.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Agreed. Just having a scheduling policy in place solves many of these problems.

Things should be evenly distributed in whatever system you decide is best

At one CMG site I worked, the medical director worked no nights or holidays. Another non em boarded old timer somehow got the same arrangement.

If you're not locums are are thus getting guaranteed hours you should share holidays / weekends / nights the same as everyone else. If you think your entitled to something else (don't care about your age or position) then get out if the department.

 

[Hercules]

We have 8 docs and 8 templated rotations on our holiday schedules. One year you are doc A then the next year you are doc B, etc. We each take our turns so it’s divided up evenly. The big three holidays for us that we have chosen to template are Thanksgiving, Christmas break, and Mardis Gras (I know weird, but if you live in New Orleans or Mobile, AL your kids are going to be out for the week so we take turns). That approach has worked great for us. We also template it so that everyone has 5-9 days off right around Christmas so that even if you wind up working Christmas Day, you’re probably off for the next 7 after that.

There is no seniority in scheduling and no preferential treatment for the medical director (other than being able to place shift requests for meetings that don’t count against your personal request limits).

 

[GeneralVeers]

A great way to fix this issue is to offer Holiday pay. I've never seen a group implement it, but something like $50/hr for X-mas and X-giving would make it easy to cover. Minor Holidays like labour day should be $20/hour extra.

I theoretically CAN work every Holiday, and don't mind doing it. For extra money I'd be happy to work every single Holiday.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

We pay way more than an extra $50/hr on holidays. Plus the equitable scheduling and even holiday split.

A great way to fix this issue is to offer Holiday pay. I've never seen a group implement it, but something like $50/hr for X-mas and X-giving would make it easy to cover. Minor Holidays like labour day should be $20/hour extra.

I theoretically CAN work every Holiday, and don't mind doing it. For extra money I'd be happy to work every single Holiday.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I work some holidays at my other shop I get 1.5 my rate but I only work there like two shifts a month. holidays can be covered it is just money you offered 500-1000 for that holiday shift I'm sure you will never have to work that holiday.

 

[RustedFox]

A great way to fix this issue is to offer Holiday pay. I've never seen a group implement it, but something like $50/hr for X-mas and X-giving would make it easy to cover. Minor Holidays like labour day should be $20/hour extra.

I theoretically CAN work every Holiday, and don't mind doing it. For extra money I'd be happy to work every single Holiday.

What's X-Giving? I hope it's like Festivus and it's awesomer than Thanksgiving.

X-Games-Giving?

Write your own joke here.

 

[RoyBasch]

A great way to fix this issue is to offer Holiday pay. I've never seen a group implement it, but something like $50/hr for X-mas and X-giving would make it easy to cover. Minor Holidays like labour day should be $20/hour extra.

I theoretically CAN work every Holiday, and don't mind doing it. For extra money I'd be happy to work every single Holiday.

My shop does 1.5x pay for holidays (Christmas, Christmas Eve, Thanksgiving, Black Friday, New Years Eve, and New Years Day). Everyone is allowed 3 of the 6 aforementioned holidays off and likely to be working the other 3. This holiday schedule is made independent to the regular schedule, thus you cannot use your regular days off to requests all the holidays off. If somebody tried to request all 6 holidays off like ERCAT mentioned, they would simply be denied their requests.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Things should be evenly distributed in whatever system you decide is best

At one CMG site I worked, the medical director worked no nights or holidays. Another non em boarded old timer somehow got the same arrangement.

If you're not locums are are thus getting guaranteed hours you should share holidays / weekends / nights the same as everyone else. If you think your entitled to something else (don't care about your age or position) then get out if the department.

What on Earth did you do to earn probation?

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

What on Earth did you do to earn probation?

Non EM mod didn't like a comment I made regarding cmg residency expansion in another thread, but somehow didn't have a problem with the five other incendiary (but also true and appropriate) comments that followed.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Non EM mod didn't like a comment I made regarding cmg residency expansion in another thread, but somehow didn't have a problem with the five other incendiary (but also true and appropriate) comments that followed.

Huh. I mean, I thought y'all were being a little bit harsh but nothing all that bad.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

What business is it of a non-EM mod to police what we say about the expansion of subpar residencies in our specialty?

Non EM mod didn't like a comment I made regarding cmg residency expansion in another thread, but somehow didn't have a problem with the five other incendiary (but also true and appropriate) comments that followed.

 

[emergentmd]

Email to group ' "Holidays are difficult to schedule. Rank your holidays but there is no guarantee you will be off. Unless there is clearance with the scheduler, you are not allowed to request off on the holidays. If you request off, and have not cleared it with the scheduler, you likely will be scheduled on that day".

Seems simple. Gamers, there are always some without self awareness, will never do it again.

Don't sweat it. Its an easy fix. No need to get mad.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

We prefer to know indefinitely in advance which holidays we have off. I know which holidays I had off my first year, the next year it's our other holidays. It continues like this perpetually unless we, as a group, vote to do something different. Any trades we just cc our scheduler on the email so the master list on the year doesn't get messed up.

Email to group ' "Holidays are difficult to schedule. Rank your holidays but there is no guarantee you will be off. Unless there is clearance with the scheduler, you are not allowed to request off on the holidays. If you request off, and have not cleared it with the scheduler, you likely will be scheduled on that day".

Seems simple. Gamers, there are always some without self awareness, will never do it again.

Don't sweat it. Its an easy fix. No need to get mad.

 

[emergentmd]

Everywhere I worked, we ranked the holidays. Then the scheduler does their thing. If there is any open spots, then they figure out who hasn't done many holidays in the past.

We always bonus holidays so typically they are covered. Bonus is the way to go and I would gladly pay someone to work holidays.

And if you are scheduled for a holiday that you have to take off due to family, there is always a price someone will cover your shift.