Making the decision

[Malikite]

Hello all,

I have been trying to make a final decision on whether to enter an MD program or go a different route. I'm 27 years old and I am still working on an undergrad degree. I have had to work to support myself through school so most of my time in school has been part time. I am a chemistry major and only have about 15 credits to completion. My GPA is 3.94 so I'm not concerned about my academics. I currently work for a private dialysis/office practice as an IT guy but I work very closely with the physicians. What disturbs me is that all the physicians I have spoken with on a 1 to 1 basis say that they would seriously consider not doing medicine if they had the choice to go back and do it over. This frightens me a bit considering the time and money commitment required. So my question is, how did you make a final decision that medicine was for you?

Was it volunteer work, work experience, or did you always just want to be a doctor?

For those already in the program or practicing, do you enjoy your job? Does it give you the sense of helping others and career satisfaction that you thought it would give you?

I have done radiation oncology research, worked in the field (as IT anyway) and I am ready to take the MCAT. So I'm very close to being ready to apply, I just don't want to go through this with doubts. Thanks for the help.

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[DrMidlife]

I walked away from a six figure job at the age of 38 to pursue medicine, so I think I get what you're asking.

I strongly, strongly recommend that you stop watching any and all TV programs about medicine for the foreseeable future. Any influence these have on you is disastrous. There's no reality there.

As for making the big fat decision, there are two questions that were key for me. First: is there ANYTHING else I'd rather do? Second: can ANYBODY talk me out of it?

If there's anything you'd be happy doing instead of medicine, absolutely do the other thing. Med school and residency will literally suck the life out of us, cost us endless opportunities and relationships, put us six figures in debt, and sink us into a political and financial quagmire for the rest of our lives. If you really understand these things, and you really comprehend the downside of what you're getting into, and you STILL want to do it, then maybe you have the desire and commitment that will get you through.

I've constantly shadowed physicians, and I've constantly followed residents around the ER, and I'm truly relentless in getting them to fess up the truth about their career choice and their level of contentment with it. Basically my strategy has been to remove all the naivete, and any bunnies and puppies impressions I had about medicine, and see what's left on the other side. For me, what's left is a powerful sense that I can't wait to get in there.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Law2Doc]

What disturbs me is that all the physicians I have spoken with on a 1 to 1 basis say that they would seriously consider not doing medicine if they had the choice to go back and do it over. This frightens me a bit considering the time and money commitment required. So my question is, how did you make a final decision that medicine was for you?

Was it volunteer work, work experience, or did you always just want to be a doctor?

For those already in the program or practicing, do you enjoy your job? Does it give you the sense of helping others and career satisfaction that you thought it would give you?

As with most careers, it is going to be good for the right people, and not so good if you aren't the right kind of person. It is absolutely not all about helping others and warm fuzzy feelings. There are lots of problems with healthcare today, and practicing medicine is really nothing like you might see on TV. Hours are longer, pay is lower than a lot of premeds seem to understand. so I agree with the prior poster -- talk to as many doctors as you can and hear about what medicine is like, "warts and all". Sounds like the folks you've been talking to are honest and not pulling any punches. I wouldn't dismiss what they have to say. I would certainly try talking to folks in other specialties -- try to shadow rad onc or whatever you think would be interesting, bearing in mind that not everyone who goes to med school will get something as competitive as rad onc, and it could very well be you working in a dialysis center (or other medicine branch) in a decade or so. Knowledge is power. If you already know what sucks about medicine before you go down this road, you won't get hit with any bad surprises, and more importantly, you will know if it's really for you. As a nontrad, I think this level of research is more expected -- you are uprooting your life to go down a path so it's expected you have researched it fully. So get out there and start shadowing/volunteering and talking to as many physicians as you can, before you go any further in the process.

Again, this is a great and rewarding field for some, and an emotional albatross with golden handcuffs for others. In the end it depends on knowing yourself, and knowing exactly what you are getting into to the best of your ability from a difficult vantage point.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

I concur with both postings above, and wanted to add a thought or two. Many physicians that I've spoken with, including a sibling, have a feeling that there are other professions that are more lucrative and require less time than an MDs position requires. But after struggling to become a physician over many years, the MDs seem to feel that it would be unrealistic to pursue those other paths, causing some to feel locked into remaining physicans, ergo the resentment. At least that's my opinion.

Sometimes this comes out in the sense that a physician feels they are worth more than they are paid, given the number of years and sacrifice that they've put in. Other times, it may seem unfair that a laywer or businessman is earning similar or higher salaries than the doctor, given the fewer years in school that those paths require and that most other professions don't take 4 years of unpaid study, plus many years underpaid work (residency) prior to earning what they are worth in the market.

I think that part of the deal in most fields is that if you don't like it, you can change to a different field & often make similar money. I could quit finance and become a business owner. Or a realtor/mortgage broker. Or many, many other paths. It seems that MDs don't have this luxury as much; after 12 years training, an interventional cardiologist can't realistically buy a rent-a-center franchise and do that instead; they have too much invested (time and loans) to do this.

The main advantage that we nontrads have is experience - how many jobs have you had that were perfect in every way? How many exceptional bosses have you had? After learning over years that the "real world" is NOT a simple, easy, transparent place, I feel we are better positioned to handle the disappointments and irrationalities of medicine.

 

[Law2Doc]

I concur with both postings above, and wanted to add a thought or two. Many physicians that I've spoken with, including a sibling, have a feeling that there are other professions that are more lucrative and require less time than an MDs position requires. But after struggling to become a physician over many years, the MDs seem to feel that it would be unrealistic to pursue those other paths, causing some to feel locked into remaining physicans, ergo the resentment. At least that's my opinion.

Having come from another lucrative career, I would agree with both these notions, although I think it's kind of off topic from the OP's post.

You can absolutely potentially do better faster in other paths. Everyone is going to come to this realization when they get out of 4 years of med school and into a residency paying $40k, while your $200k in student loan debt is growing, while someone who started law school at the same time is already in their second year of practice earning six digits with substantially less debt. Of course not everybody does great in every career, but the folks who actually have choices amongst professions tend to do far better than "average".

And it's much easier to make a change from some careers (eg law) than medicine, because of the time involved/invested, the debt involved, etc. Once you have $200k in debt, you are going to be hard pressed to do anything else besides residency, won't be particularly qualified to do much else at that juncture, and certainly won't be jumping into another few years of expensive schooling. By contrast someone who did 3 years of law school and got a high paying job can be debt free long before the typical med student starts paying theirs down, and thus changing careers isn't going to be as out of the question. Which is why you will see far more lawyers, bankers, etc in med school than doctors training for these other things. It's a one way street. So you have to really be sure you want to be a doctor, because otherwise you are going to be stuck there.

 

[Malikite]

Thank you all for your sincere and honest replies. I will definitely have to do some shadowing and volunteering before taking the plunge. The reasons mentioned are some of the fears that I have had. The fear of taking 8 more years of training and then realizing that I don't like it but will be "stuck" because of the enormous debt. Thank you again for your responses.

 

[GassiusClay]

Thank you all for your sincere and honest replies. I will definitely have to do some shadowing and volunteering before taking the plunge. The reasons mentioned are some of the fears that I have had. The fear of taking 8 more years of training and then realizing that I don't like it but will be "stuck" because of the enormous debt. Thank you again for your responses.

Best thing for you is for ONE MONTH of time at least so 28+ days, follow residents day in and day out. Start the day when they do, end the day when they do including post call. Then you will know if medicine is for you.

As much as people keep talking this BS that medicine could/can be right for you, it is likely that it is NOT, EVER will be for you. We have evolved into being something that is not a mammal. We don't sleep well for the most part. Second, we give up family and all the other stuff much more than anyone else is FORCED to based on the job conditions. Even a lawyer can keep things easy and of course make less after they are done. They are not necessarily forced to work long hours all the time in the spirit of "training."

And keep in mind, a good lawyer is not a right. Any old douche is okay. That doesn't seem to apply for everybody wanting their fat butt, cancer ridden bodies free of illness. NOBODY is seen as a right as much as us in today's environment. Do you want to sacrifice your life for such a worthless American public?

Being a doctor now is not about a grateful, humble patient population. It is about lobbying hard and making sure you look out for yourself first. Explains why more go into things like radiology. You work hard but no crap.

 

[MacVA]

How would you go about shadowing a resident?

 

[Law2Doc]

How would you go about shadowing a resident?

I've actually never heard of anyone doing such a thing as the prior poster describes. But you'd probably need to know a doctor who knows residents and can set it up.

 

[DrMidlife]

I don't think anybody said "shadow" a resident, but a couple of us mentioned "follow" a resident. In my mind, shadowing is something you arrange in advance and do with permission. Following is just stalking, with good intentions.

I was able to do this, to my heart's content, as an ER volunteer. I'd do my 4 hours of work, and then just not go home. After doing this for 3 years, I'd spent hours with PGY3s that I'd also followed when they were rotating as interns, thus I could observe changes in their perspectives - unbelievably valuable.

The suggestion of following a resident around nonstop for a month is likely an unachievable extreme. It's been suggested to me that shadowing reaches its limit of usefulness when you're trying to simulate what it's like to be a resident or physician. I'm told that without having the responsibilities, and the mental and physical pressures of the job, you can't approximate the experience just by observing.

All that said, any and all exposure to the practice of medicine is going to either solidify a desire to practice, or destroy it. And as L2D said, it's our responsibility as nontrads to be more diligent in our research.

 

[Malikite]

I think volunteering is going to be my best bet. That will give me both volunteer work for my application as well as hopefully allowing me to follow some residents around. Well I'm not interested in nephrology I could always ask the physicians I work with to see if they know any residents that I could talk with and maybe set something up.

I would just ask one of our physicians if I could round with them but a lot (most) are Indian and while I don't have anything against Indians, they just seem to be really crabby/grouchy/confrontational pretty much all the time. Guess it is a culture thing, but suppose that would be a good way to get used to the verbal abuse I'm sure to get in Med School.