Manageable Debt or No?

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winterchill

winterchill

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Hey SDNers.

Does the prospect of $150K of debt (COA factored in) seem a reasonable amount to pay back?

I want to stay in my hometown (NYC) and love the opportunities/curriculum/student environment at my top choice. However, I am undecided about specialty and if that debt load seems unmanageable for lower paying specialities, then I think I'd have to go back to the drawing board.

Thanks.
 
The average AMG graduates with 181k in debt. That number may actually be a few years old, but you get the idea.

What people sometimes do is when they make the transition to attending, they continue to live a resident lifestyle and use the extra income to pay down debt or maybe a downpayment on a house. There is also income based repayment where regardless of how much you owe, they can only take a certain percent of your income.
 
winterchill said:
Agreed. But I'd save a lot more if I chose the other school...
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Is ther a significant difference in the name of the school? If it's Harvard vs your state school, I would go with Harvard. If it's two similar caliber places, it probably doesn't matter. I would also say if you think you will be significantly happier at one vs the other, that is important and will likely be reflected in your overall performance.
 
shiftingmirage said:
Is ther a significant difference in the name of the school? If it's Harvard vs your state school, I would go with Harvard. If it's two similar caliber places, it probably doesn't matter. I would also say if you think you will be significantly happier at one vs the other, that is important and will likely be reflected in your overall performance.
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Actually, my state school was more expensive but that's New York for you...

And no, definitely not Harvard. I don't want to out myself on SDN just yet. They're both ivies; one is in NYC and the other is not (nor a top 20).
 
So Cornell and Brown. How much cheaper is Brown? I would go to Brown if it's 150k less.
 
@chenzt No, my second choice is not a free ride. If it were, it'd have to be in the Nether for me not to attend.

It is about half the price though. Do you still turn down the money or think the $150K is manageable?
 
use AAMC's medloans calculator to figure out what your monthly payments will look like during residency and after using estimated incomes. In short, yes, it's manageable. If you're on the low end of normal, as someone noted, do you think that most med school graduates have unmanageable debt? Probably not the case.
 
For half the price I would go to the cheaper school. As you describe both schools are good schools which will give you a quality education, with both having likely good match lists. While 150k is very manageable half is even better
 
75k extra is very doable, but you have to ask yourself if being in NYC and attending Weill (and it's shiny new medical building 🙂) is worth the extra 75k. Also I imagine going to Cornell gives you an inside track to their residencies, do you want to stay in NYC after?
 
Thanks you guys. I have seen the payment amount through the FIRST site but it's hard to even fathom the debt load (or salary) when you've never made that much in your life.

I also kind of wanted to limit this to just manageability. I understand the idea behind going to the cheaper school but would like to know if 150K seems to be a reasonable amount.
 
Look, the decision isn't as simple as comparing costs of attendance. Ultimately you're going to choose a school based on how you weight your selection criteria. What's important to you? Personally I don't think the difference is that big a deal. Just ask yourself whether or not the pros of attending Cornell outweigh its cost.
 
@chenzt Haha, actually Brown was the one school with the shiny facilities.

Yes, I'm a born and raised New Yorker, went away for undergrad and would like to be back home. There's some more personal reasons for staying (family not an SO) but if people thought the loan amount was stifling, I'm too financially conscious to just throw that to the wind. (I don't plan to match into a $250K+ speciality).
 
Go to the studentloans.gov website and look at managing repayment. Look at PAYE, IBR, & ICR. I don't know what will happen to those programs by the time you graduate from med school, but the chance that you'll actually be on the hook for the entire loan in either circumstance is probably low. The amount you repay each month under any of these programs has more to do with your income than the amount of your loan . . . and then it gets forgiven if you haven't been able to repay it by a certain date (which right now is pretty damn early if you work at a qualifying hospital)., That said, these programs will probably get modified during the course of your education as the loan forgiveness is pretty ridiculous, so it might be good to talk to someone in FinAid to find out what could change and how.

That said, if you're talking about low paying specialties, if that means primary care to you, there will still be a lot of assistance available to those docs to incentivize those fields.

Money is important, but depending on how far apart your feelings about the two schools are, at least stop to ask yourself how much your happiness or quality of life are worth to you. You only live once and four years of your life is not inconsequential.
 
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winterchill said:
Hey SDNers.

Does the prospect of $150K of debt (COA factored in) seem a reasonable amount to pay back?

I want to stay in my hometown (NYC) and love the opportunities/curriculum/student environment at my top choice. However, I am undecided about specialty and if that debt load seems unmanageable for lower paying specialities, then I think I'd have to go back to the drawing board.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I will take that 150k any day of the week...
 
3rdarmageddon said:
Just ignore it. Pretend like debt is just a mythical thing. Coincidentally, that new 2K laptop that you've been dying to have... what's an additional 2k on top of everything else?
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An additional $4-6k to pay back down the line, don't forget about taxes too. Surely not as much as your 50k tuition, but smaller expenses add up too.
 
3rdarmageddon said:
I'm looking at more like 300K+... just sayin.
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I never really understood how the average indebtedness is only ~160k. Almost every school I interviewed at was giving an estimated COA of 250-300k. I'll probably be at 280k. Are most people just getting giant scholarships?! What is this madness!
 
3rdarmageddon said:
Just ignore it. Pretend like debt is just a mythical thing. Coincidentally, that new 2K laptop that you've been dying to have... what's an additional 2k on top of everything else?
Click to expand...
I know this is dripping with sarcasm, but 400k is about what I have to spend when the tuition alone is 60k+ a year. Add in housing, food, transportation, flights back home, medications, and ect and it ballons to 100k a year.
 
msquaredb said:
Parental contribution I'm assuming...
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That much parental contribution?

sweet-jesus.gif
 
msquaredb said:
Parental contribution I'm assuming...
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people's parents are helping out too. I definitely met a few whose parents were covering everything or at least providing five-figure amounts each year.

But those of us without parents or who have parents that make very little, schools who provide need based aid ask us to take out base loans (around $30-35K each year) and the schools cover the rest with scholarships/grants.
 
Xenoblade said:
I know this is dripping with sarcasm, but 400k is about what I have to spend when the tuition alone is 60k+ a year. Add in housing, food, transportation, flights back home, medications, and ect and it ballons to 100k a year.
Click to expand...

Good heavens that's frightening. Does that scare you or do you think you'll be fine?
 
winterchill said:
Good heavens that's frightening. Does that scare you or do you think you'll be fine?
Click to expand...
Yeah! I didn't pay attention on my interview day to how much it costs to attend there since they didn't really mention it (it was on a slide, but the dean/director didn't verbally mention it). But when I looked onto their website after getting accepted, I seriously got dizzy and almost passed out. And this is coming from a strong dude who has never blacked out in my life, but the sticker shock was so overwhelming that my vision was blurry and I got an extremely bad headache. OMG, the tuition will be around 70k by the time I graduate. Plus I will have to do away rotations, so the costs will just keep on ballooning.

So I really only have 30k to travel and do away rotations, which just isn't enough. A plane ticket costs around $500, that is around 2% of my total budget on one single item.

And my friends keep pushing me to go and discount (haha, get it?) what I have to say when it comes to financial aid. I will probably have to go to food banks in med school because tuition is simply just too much. Plus, I have medication that I have to have, and I don't know what it will cost me in a different state. Sad when I have to pinch the basic necessities even when I am getting a 100k a year. This is proof that the cost of medical education is just out of control here in the states.
 
msquaredb said:
Yep. The majority of matriculants come from the highest quintile of family income, and their parents can afford to chip in a little. I imagine children of physicians find it even easier to convince their parents to help.

I am becoming slightly bitter because even though I come from the upper quintile, my parents will not contribute. My parents were very poor when I was growing up and have had some fortunately circumstances midway through my high school education until now that pushed their income higher. Unfortunately (for me), they have still retained their frugal ways that allowed them to get by in my early years. They also believe hard work and paying your own way is a virtue. I will never get aid because no med school is going to believe that story after looking at the parental portion of my FAFSA.

I don't really expect my parents to contribute. Its their money, and I don't adhere to the theory that its a parents responsibility to contribute. What I get salty about is that my parents think schools will believe that I have no financial support and give me appropriate aid.

Anybody else in a "My family can contribute but wont" situation?
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I'm in a "my step-parent makes me ineligible for financial aid but doesn't contribute to my expenses" situation lol.
 
terp720 said:
I'm in a "my step-parent makes me ineligible for financial aid but doesn't contribute to my expenses" situation lol.
Click to expand...
Can you please elaborate? I honestly don't understand.
 
Xenoblade said:
Can you please elaborate? I honestly don't understand.
Click to expand...

Because my parents are divorced, i had to use the information of my remarried parent and step-parent. My step-parent makes significantly more than my actual parents, making me ineligible for aid, but has no intention of helping me with expenses. So while it looks like my family can afford to help m and i didn't qualify for financial aid, it won't be happening.
Based on my actual parents alone though, i would have probably qualified for some financial aid.
 
These days finishing med school with $150k debt would be considered lucky. So yes, I think it's totally manageable.
 
Real talk.

I'm going to Cornell (WOOT ENTERING CLASS OF 2014 !!!) and I'm looking at ~120,000 in debt by the time I finish. I was scared at first because I have never, EVER seen that much $$$ on anything related to my family (my single mother made about <$20,000 a year). I’ve always had to hustle to make ends meet. I talked to MY GURL LaVerne during Second Look and she said the following:
1. If you are careful with your $ (don’t go out every weekend to party at Greenwich Village, haha… or, at least, make sure you have an i-banking sugar daddy 😉 ). Based on my calculations, I THINK I can survive in NYC for about $1500 a month b/c of the provided housing and you can always find cheap/free food (according to current students). In terms of transportation, let’s face it, we are going to be studying all the time and WE DON’T NEED A CAR. Thank God. I live in a city where you have to have a car. Once, I had to pay $1000 because the city didn’t cover a HUGE pot hole that I ran over at night………. I had to get so many tutoring/babysitting gigs to cover that one.
2. LaVerne said that your 3rd and 4th years are going to be mad expensive (for obvious reasons) so make sure you save any leftover loan money that you have from previous years (she said that WCMC living expenses are a little bit inflated). THEN, when we are ready to graduate, you are able to return any left-over funds and get NO interest charged on the institutional loans.
3. LaVerne has our back. I don’t know if you were there for the FA talks during 2nd look but she said that she is always hassling students to do internal scholarships. There is SO MUCH MONEY (read: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$) for students at Cornell. Take this with a grain of salt, but she said it’s common for students with our background to end up with only $45,000 in loans at the end of the 4 years!!11!1!
We just gotta hustle! 😉

Go to Cornell! GO BIG RED! 🙂 Haha but, all seriousness though… I’m sure you will do what you need to do and will end up victorious at the end! Brown or WCMC… you can’t go wrong! 🙂

Good luck!
 
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Xenoblade said:
I'll hovering around 400k.

It sucks to be me.
Click to expand...
I'm right there with you. Between med school and undergrad loans that's what I'm looking at too. I almost had a panic attack when I added up the numbers. I was/am interested in primary care fields (namely peds) but that amount of debt may force me to explore better paying options. Sad, isn't it?
 
toffeecoffee said:
I'm right there with you. Between med school and undergrad loans that's what I'm looking at too. I almost had a panic attack when I added up the numbers. I was/am interested in primary care fields (namely peds) but that amount of debt may force me to explore better paying options. Sad, isn't it?
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There are some programs, especially for primary care, that will pay off your loans on top of you salary, but these usually involve practicing in certain, under served areas. Might be worth doing some more research into.
 
OP: Is $150k just for undergrad or for undergrad and medical school combined? (I skimmed the entire thread and didn't see the answer.) And if you don't mind, are you in your 20's, 30's, or some other age range? <---relevant in terms of time to pay off debt and save for retirements if desired Do you plan to go into primary care or a higher paying specialty? Thanks.
 
@Gauss44 Hey Gauss. I've pretty much stopped worrying about the debt now. But I'm 25 and have $10K in undergrad loans. And I am undecided and can go either way so the question was whether that was a manageable amount for someone like a family med doctor or pediatrician. I am sure the higher paying specialities would have less difficulty knocking that debt out.
 
msquaredb said:
Yep. The majority of matriculants come from the highest quintile of family income, and their parents can afford to chip in a little. I imagine children of physicians find it even easier to convince their parents to help.

I am becoming slightly bitter because even though I come from the upper quintile, my parents will not contribute. My parents were very poor when I was growing up and have had some fortunately circumstances midway through my high school education until now that pushed their income higher. Unfortunately (for me), they have still retained their frugal ways that allowed them to get by in my early years. They also believe hard work and paying your own way is a virtue. I will never get aid because no med school is going to believe that story after looking at the parental portion of my FAFSA.

I don't really expect my parents to contribute. Its their money, and I don't adhere to the theory that its a parents responsibility to contribute. What I get salty about is that my parents think schools will believe that I have no financial support and give me appropriate aid.

Anybody else in a "My family can contribute but wont" situation?
Click to expand...

Are we the same person?
 
Xenoblade said:
Yeah! I didn't pay attention on my interview day to how much it costs to attend there since they didn't really mention it (it was on a slide, but the dean/director didn't verbally mention it). But when I looked onto their website after getting accepted, I seriously got dizzy and almost passed out. And this is coming from a strong dude who has never blacked out in my life, but the sticker shock was so overwhelming that my vision was blurry and I got an extremely bad headache. OMG, the tuition will be around 70k by the time I graduate. Plus I will have to do away rotations, so the costs will just keep on ballooning.

So I really only have 30k to travel and do away rotations, which just isn't enough. A plane ticket costs around $500, that is around 2% of my total budget on one single item.

And my friends keep pushing me to go and discount (haha, get it?) what I have to say when it comes to financial aid. I will probably have to go to food banks in med school because tuition is simply just too much. Plus, I have medication that I have to have, and I don't know what it will cost me in a different state. Sad when I have to pinch the basic necessities even when I am getting a 100k a year. This is proof that the cost of medical education is just out of control here in the states.
Click to expand...

Same parental trajectory, same end spot. Ah well, it's going to suck but a lot of people are in the same boat so nothing I can do.
 
msquaredb said:
Wow! I thought some people might have parents who believe in making their children pay their own way, but I have never found someone who's parents financial trajectory mimicked mine parents.

As far as I know I don't have a sleepwalking alter ego that posts as LuciusVorenus haha!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Definitely the same. Moved here and was poor, but my parents were fortunate enough to be successful. But you know...yeah.

The worst is when they count houses towards your assets. Like what are my parents going to do? Sell their house to pay for my school?
 
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