Marginalization of average white males

[MD'05]

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It may not happen all the time, but I know for a fact it happened at one of my interviews! 😡 OK, picture this...I'm a white male, ex-Army combat veteran. I go to this medical school interview and am interviewed by this Middle Eastern (I think of Iraqi decent) physician who is part of the adcom. This guy was combative with me during the whole interview...all he talks about is the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. He kepts saying that, with my background, I was probably in similar situations and how does he know that I didn't do similar things. He kept pressing and pressing and accusing and accusing...it was a bad experience! 😡 The guy really pissed me off... However, I kept my cool the whole time thinking it might have just been a test to see if he could un-nerve me and that at some point we would get to the REAL interview. Well, the REAL interview NEVER happened. It was that BS combative session the whole time.

I didn't report him to the Dean because I figured if he is representative of that school, I don't care to attend anyway.

So my point is...IT DOES HAPPEN. Maybe not often, but reverse discrimination does occur.

Report the dingus. He is in our country, not Iraq.

 

[ShyRem]

Discimination exists. It exists because people obsess over it - either trying to "make up" for past transgressions, or trying to keep the discrimination going. Either way, it sucks.

The only way for discrimination to cease is for people to ignore the "race" issue. Give applications a number, take away the names, sex, race, and age. Let the applications stand on the merits without personal data. Leave the state of residency in so state schools can support their own students. Oh, and prohibit any mention of race in a PS. From the ghetto? Fine. Say so. There are TONS of white, hispanic, black, and mixed races in the ghetto. Ghettos have long since stopped being a "black" place or a "hispanic" place. Ghettos are a "poor" place. A poster far above had a good statement: We are ALL AMERICANS. No matter if our skin color is black, white, albino, mulatto, or pink with purple polks-dots. We're AMERICAN. Race should have nothing to do with that.

 

[Benign_foodtube]

I cannot believe you're advocating anything so hateful to be considered as a joke! It's absolutely not funny, and the mods ( where on earth are they? ) should swiftly end this thread. There never is a time when making these sorts of awful statements is appropriate. Highschooler or no, his posts are terribly offensive. Perhaps a long ban would teach him the virtues of tolerance and respect. Go to your room, amnesia! Now!

Man, I'm not advocating a damn thing here, so be careful where you sling alliances for other people. Don't be so infuriated by what Amnesia is saying that you lose your rationality. You should drop a formal complaint to the admin peeps about this fool.

 

[bluejellybelly]

Just a heads up to you amnesia. You are not getting into medical school unless you change your attitude. I supposed you could lie to your interviewers or avoid questions about your strong feelings regarding these issues. But what good would that do in the long run?

Seriously, I bet he WOULD lie. He knows acting like that wouldn't get him anywhere.

Unless of course, Amnesia, You are so willing to stand by your opinions and tell the adcom your true feelings..and not get into med school.
Of course, let's hope he doesn't end up in an adcom. Well, if people around him knew he meant it, I'm sure they wouldn't want him there anyway.

 

[Siggy]

I cannot believe you're advocating anything so hateful to be considered as a joke! It's absolutely not funny, and the mods ( where on earth are they? ) should swiftly end this thread. There never is a time when making these sorts of awful statements is appropriate. Highschooler or no, his posts are terribly offensive. Perhaps a long ban would teach him the virtues of tolerance and respect. Go to your room, amnesia! Now!

So, when is your operation? You know, the one to pull your head out of your rectum.

 

[cfdavid]

Again, I'll reiterate how subjective being labeled "average" can be.

To me it's common sense for adcoms to consider such things as socio-economic backgrounds, and overcoming major hurdles etc. when making their decisions. After all, it's a hell of a lot easier to get 4.0's when you don't have to contend with what many less economically priviledged students must worry about, and address, just to stay in school. Aren't Kaplan courses running around $1K these days? This is just one really small example of the above.

I also believe that the diversity amongst doctors MUST reflect the diversity in the society in which we live. Again, it's just common sense that this is best for our society and ultimately for healthcare. But I also think that disparities should be addressed as early on as possible (WAY earlier than upon admissions to medical school), and that hopefully, as time goes by, some of the AA policies of the recent past etc. will start bearing fruit in terms of decreasing the number of economically disadvantaged minority groups.

I think that perhaps what concerns some "average" white guys (and perhaps some non URM's) is that there seems to be an assumption that just being white means that to be considered NOT average, we must do some pretty "spectacular" things.

Seriously, I'd like some feedback here. Hopefully, my previous posts will indicate that I'm not a touble maker with bad intentions or ill will for anyone. But, just tell me what you think of a personal concern of my own. Try to relate, as I try to relate to others that are different than me. Just be curtious.

In a nutshell, I come from a nuclear family whose annual income was above average. But, when my dad was a kid, HE grew up in a family in which a charity had to provide a Christmas for he and his siblings. My dad had a few years of college (all loans), and dropped out to start a business with his mom and dad. They became successful, and as I grew up, my dad made more and more money etc.

I've had a few recent discussions with adcom people recently. My grades are very solid, but I still need the MCAT.

One thing that I've stuggled with is the level of altruistic expectations that the admin people seem to almost require. But, although I could never qualify for financial aid, I've been expected to work from 15 years old, on. My dad, not unlike many of his generation/demographic, is old school. A "go get a job", pull youself up by your bootstraps kind of guy.

All spending money and any other expenses (a car) were always up to me. In high school, I worked during the week, many weekends, and full time in the summer (a variety of jobs). The same with college. In order to be able to pay for living expenses (gas, insurance, whatever..), I had to work. During winter and spring breaks, I would either work at a ham company (14 hours a day with overtime etc.), or I would help the carpenters frame homes (hauling lumber and nailing down roofs etc.).

During ALL of my summers from late high school, through college, the best way to make money for me was to do construction, or landscaping type jobs. They paid well, and paid overtime etc. We could work a lot of hours, and make some money. It was TOTALLY expected of me to do this.

But when I talk to adcom people, they keep asking "did you volunteer at a summer camp for kids with diabetes?". "Have you travelled abroad to do charity work for poor people?" That kind of thing. Seriously, my dad would have said "how are you gonna pay for your books next year?" Or "what about your car payment... gas??" "Go for it, but don't ask us for money next year".

Look, I'm super proud of my family. And love my dad. He's taught me a ton, and I don't regret my upbringing. It was great, and wouldn't change it for the world.

****I'm not complaining about poor Chris having to work so hard. But the point is that some of the volunteering and charity work that adcom people seem to look for to determine if you are a "worthy" candidate, would have seemed to me more like priviledges than sacrifices. That's what the "rich" kids were doing. My buddies and I were running brick paver crews with mexican immigrant workers. Not, "taking the summer off to help the starving in Chad".
It's just the environment that I grew up in (and I KNOW I'm not alone.) But, is that "average"?? I don't know. I didn't really do anything very exotic. The expectation was to earn money to help cover the costs of college and other things truly necessary. Again, anything else would have been more like a priviledge or something.

Don't get me wrong, I've played team sports all my life (pretty average), and have volunteered at a blood donor center and a hospital (in college), and have recently been doing hospice and ER volunteering. I also do some homeless charity stuff, but this is just very recent as I'm now self-supporting with a good job (a non-trad).

I do worry though, about being a white guy, with great grades and hopefully MCAT, yet still being kind of expected to have done more exotic or altruistic endeavors.

At least that's how the adcoms made me feel in some preliminary meetings. Like, well you're a white guy, so you'll need to have spent a year in the Peace Corps working with the indians of the Amazon in Brazil. Oh, by the way, don't even think of having anything less than a stellar GPA and MCAT. Cause, there's no excuse for you, young man.

Can anyone relate? Easy on the slams. I know it sounds like I'm whining (am I?). But, it's just a few very recent meetings with some state med school admin people that seem somewhat discouraging (in some ways only).

Again, what else can be done to separate yourself from being "average" in the eyes of the admin. commitee?

Be constructive.

 

[bigdan]

Anyone that can find the Nile in Brazil is WAY above average in my book.

 

[MD'05]

At least that's how the adcoms made me feel in some preliminary meetings. Like, well you're a white guy, so you'll need to have spent a year in the Peace Corps working with the indians of the Nile river in Brazil. Oh, by the way, don't even think of having anything less than a stellar GPA and MCAT. Cause, there's no excuse for you, young man.

Organize a program for disadvantaged youth which will allow you to teach them whatever skills you possess. Find a couple of other medically-bound students to help you. You did construction, teach them construction. Good at sports, coach the little ones to become better. Help them with reading, mathematics, life skills. This will take lots of patience since many of these kids have behavioral problems, attention disorders, etc.

There are so many ways that you can initiate a program right here at home. If you want, start small with a school near your home. See if there are children at a local school that may need extra help with learning or something else.

Hope this helps.

 

[GuyLaroche]

So, when is your operation? You know, the one to pull your head out of your rectum.

I didn't realize I had one scheduled. Really, there isn't any just cause for rudeness. God bless.

 

[cfdavid]

Anyone that can find the Nile in Brazil is WAY above average in my book.

lol o.k. o.k. the Amazon. wasn't thinking. must be average.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

some of you are missing the point.

the european american students should be the majority matriculating... we are, after all, a european nation with a majority of europeans.

there is nothing wrong with that. go to mexico for a majority of mexicans. go to china for a majority of chinese ... but then again, those countries suck, so i don't see many taking the oppurtunity.

The descendants of the ancient Egyptians are Copts, who are Christians, and who speak a Hamitic language (part of the Hamito-Semitic/Afro-Asiatic languages). They have nothing to do with Caucasian Indo-Europeans.

 

[goheel]

The descendants of the ancient Egyptians are Copts, who are Christians, and who speak a Hamitic language (part of the Hamito-Semitic/Afro-Asiatic languages). They have nothing to do with Caucasian Indo-Europeans.

I find it funny when white supremacists go around and claim basically anything good theirs. My literature professor told me that until the 20th century, American kids were taught that Egypt wasn't a part of the African continent.

 

[vhawk]

Just a heads up to you amnesia. You are not getting into medical school unless you change your attitude. I supposed you could lie to your interviewers or avoid questions about your strong feelings regarding these issues. But what good would that do in the long run?

Dude, what AdCom are you on, and can you get me in? I mean, clearly you are arbiter of who can/will get into med school, so hook me up!!

I cannot believe you're advocating anything so hateful to be considered as a joke! It's absolutely not funny, and the mods ( where on earth are they? ) should swiftly end this thread. There never is a time when making these sorts of awful statements is appropriate. Highschooler or no, his posts are terribly offensive. Perhaps a long ban would teach him the virtues of tolerance and respect. Go to your room, amnesia! Now!

Just so I can be part of the mudslinging....man, yer a baby. "There never is a time when making awful statements is appropriate?" I think George Carlin, Chris Rock, Ralphi May and every single person I have ever met would disagree with you there. Good work, speech police, Al Gore expects you back by five.

 

[tom_jones]

There is nothing wrong with osteopathic medicine, man. However, your 70% is a little off. It's more like 50/50.

Oh jesus, don't get the DO people going again.

 

[swifteagle43]

I find it funny when white supremacists go around and claim basically anything good theirs. My literature professor told me that until the 20th century, American kids were taught that Egypt wasn't a part of the African continent.

👍

I loved how Alexander the Great in the movie had blonde hair and blue eyes. I even laugh more when I see Jesus portrayed as a anglo-saxon male. HAHAHAHA! oh well...

Report the dingus. He is in our country, not Iraq.

My cousin wears a hijab(female head cover that muslim women wear/ from her own choice). During her interview at Penn all they did was talk about the hijab and why she chose to wear it. Keep in mind she went to undergrad at penn. She had a 41 MCAT and a 3.94 GPA from penn. She also had killer ECs but regaurdless she got turned down because of the a-hole at the interview.

Discrimination happens. Deal with it. Minorities are on the recieving end many many many times more. Go ahead and battle for ure right not to get discriminated against(i am all for it). But make sure you are talking about all races and not just yours!

Also did you ever think that RangerD should have come out with an all out with a statement against prisoner abuse? You weren't there. I have told you a story and so has RangerD. For all you know RangerD had a bad gpa and could be another army brickhead(they produce tons that want to go to medical school. not that rangerD is one).

 

[cfdavid]

👍

I loved how Alexander the Great in the movie had blonde hair and blue eyes. I even laugh more when I see Jesus portrayed as a anglo-saxon male. HAHAHAHA! oh well...

You sound like you have some animosity built up there swifty. Or maybe you're just immature.

Discrimination happens. Deal with it. Minorities are on the recieving end many many many times more. Go ahead and battle for ure right not to get discriminated against(i am all for it). But make sure you are talking about all races and not just yours!

Let me guess; Us against them?

Also did you ever think that RangerD should have come out with an all out with a statement against prisoner abuse? You weren't there. I have told you a story and so has RangerD. For all you know RangerD had a bad gpa and could be another army brickhead(they produce tons that want to go to medical school. not that rangerD is one).

Another army brickhead, eh? Tons? You sound like an authority!

 

[swifteagle43]

In many cities where you will find medical schools, the white male IS the minority!

The most important thing you can do to improve your chance of getting in is to improve your MCAT score so it is ABOVE average and do some cool volunteer work or something else that makes you stand out.

OMFG! before you b***h about the injustice the world has committed against you for being born a white the key thing here is to realize that the AVERAGE person does not get into medical school.

The question is can you beat a 3.6 GPA and a 30 MCAT score. Its that f**king simple. Tack on a few ECs and a smile to your interview.

Don't go in like a hateful nazi who thinks the world is against him and I think you might get in.

I will never feel sorry for most of the people who come online an b*tch about how AA screwed them over because you have to have a sick mentality to think that way.

And it is exactly that kind of sh*ty thinking that probably tripped you up at the interview. Or maybe it was this kind of thinking that made you just think like an average person(its a shame really).

Affirmative Action is not perfect but neither is life or our American history. Being an Asian male I get hit HARDER than you(% of acceptance over applied). And my race never cracked a whip over someones back either.

While being a doctor is something you keep telling yourself that every average joe can reach it is FAR from the truth. It is not MEANT for the average person(white or not). Deal with it!

The adcoms have been in this game a lot longer than you have and are able to analyze situations better than you can. And it is their call! Its a free country bro- deal with it!

 

[cfdavid]

swifteagle, why don't you tone it down. You write as if you're going to have a stroke. You sound like you have some pent up anger, but this isn't the place for that.

Really, you sound like a disgruntled little guy. Just relax and try to be constructive. Good luck.

 

[GuyLaroche]

Just so I can be part of the mudslinging....man, yer a baby. "There never is a time when making awful statements is appropriate?" I think George Carlin, Chris Rock, Ralphi May and every single person I have ever met would disagree with you there. Good work, speech police, Al Gore expects you back by five.

"Yer," I suppose means "you are."
"Good work, speech police, Al Gore expects you back by five." This is a comma splice. These are two separate statements that require a period between them.

"Just so I can be part of the mudslinging....man"
Four periods as opposed to three means the sentence is ended. The next word "man" should be started with a capital letter "M."

I don't much care for bandying words with a clearly rude person. I much prefer to help others, and in this case, it appears it's your grammar that could use the help.

Finally, perhaps you are right. There might be forums - satirical forums - where awful statements that hurt and degrade other people are allowed. They are never appropriate even if allowed. SDN is not one of these sorts of places. George Carlin has yet to post on SDN. Pending that happening, everyone should abide by the TOS regulations. Thanks and God bless.

 

[visualwealth]

i cannot believe this ******ed thread is still one of the top threads... I personally know a white guy with a 25 on the mcat at a top 40 school... Also, look on MD applicants there are white guys with crap stats that get into pretty good schools... Look at the Indians on MD applicants they get screwed the most man... Quit bit*ching and work harder!!! Finally, if you work hard and get 3.7+ and 30+ there is no freaking way you will not get into medical school. If you want to be guaranteed a spot get these numbers...

 

[beep]

Again, I'll reiterate how subjective being labeled "average" can be.

To me it's common sense for adcoms to consider such things as socio-economic backgrounds, and overcoming major hurdles etc. when making their decisions. After all, it's a hell of a lot easier to get 4.0's when you don't have to contend with what many less economically priviledged students must worry about, and address, just to stay in school. Aren't Kaplan courses running around $1K these days? This is just one really small example of the above.

I also believe that the diversity amongst doctors MUST reflect the diversity in the society in which we live. Again, it's just common sense that this is best for our society and ultimately for healthcare. But I also think that disparities should be addressed as early on as possible (WAY earlier than upon admissions to medical school), and that hopefully, as time goes by, some of the AA policies of the recent past etc. will start bearing fruit in terms of decreasing the number of economically disadvantaged minority groups.

I think that perhaps what concerns some "average" white guys (and perhaps some non URM's) is that there seems to be an assumption that just being white means that to be considered NOT average, we must do some pretty "spectacular" things.

Seriously, I'd like some feedback here. Hopefully, my previous posts will indicate that I'm not a touble maker with bad intentions or ill will for anyone. But, just tell me what you think of a personal concern of my own. Try to relate, as I try to relate to others that are different than me. Just be curtious.

In a nutshell, I come from a nuclear family whose annual income was above average. But, when my dad was a kid, HE grew up in a family in which a charity had to provide a Christmas for he and his siblings. My dad had a few years of college (all loans), and dropped out to start a business with his mom and dad. They became successful, and as I grew up, my dad made more and more money etc.

I've had a few recent discussions with adcom people recently. My grades are very solid, but I still need the MCAT.

One thing that I've stuggled with is the level of altruistic expectations that the admin people seem to almost require. But, although I could never qualify for financial aid, I've been expected to work from 15 years old, on. My dad, not unlike many of his generation/demographic, is old school. A "go get a job", pull youself up by your bootstraps kind of guy.

All spending money and any other expenses (a car) were always up to me. In high school, I worked during the week, many weekends, and full time in the summer (a variety of jobs). The same with college. In order to be able to pay for living expenses (gas, insurance, whatever..), I had to work. During winter and spring breaks, I would either work at a ham company (14 hours a day with overtime etc.), or I would help the carpenters frame homes (hauling lumber and nailing down roofs etc.).

During ALL of my summers from late high school, through college, the best way to make money for me was to do construction, or landscaping type jobs. They paid well, and paid overtime etc. We could work a lot of hours, and make some money. It was TOTALLY expected of me to do this.

But when I talk to adcom people, they keep asking "did you volunteer at a summer camp for kids with diabetes?". "Have you travelled abroad to do charity work for poor people?" That kind of thing. Seriously, my dad would have said "how are you gonna pay for your books next year?" Or "what about your car payment... gas??" "Go for it, but don't ask us for money next year".

Look, I'm super proud of my family. And love my dad. He's taught me a ton, and I don't regret my upbringing. It was great, and wouldn't change it for the world.

****I'm not complaining about poor Chris having to work so hard. But the point is that some of the volunteering and charity work that adcom people seem to look for to determine if you are a "worthy" candidate, would have seemed to me more like priviledges than sacrifices. That's what the "rich" kids were doing. My buddies and I were running brick paver crews with mexican immigrant workers. Not, "taking the summer off to help the starving in Chad".
It's just the environment that I grew up in (and I KNOW I'm not alone.) But, is that "average"?? I don't know. I didn't really do anything very exotic. The expectation was to earn money to help cover the costs of college and other things truly necessary. Again, anything else would have been more like a priviledge or something.

Don't get me wrong, I've played team sports all my life (pretty average), and have volunteered at a blood donor center and a hospital (in college), and have recently been doing hospice and ER volunteering. I also do some homeless charity stuff, but this is just very recent as I'm now self-supporting with a good job (a non-trad).

I do worry though, about being a white guy, with great grades and hopefully MCAT, yet still being kind of expected to have done more exotic or altruistic endeavors.

At least that's how the adcoms made me feel in some preliminary meetings. Like, well you're a white guy, so you'll need to have spent a year in the Peace Corps working with the indians of the Nile river in Brazil. Oh, by the way, don't even think of having anything less than a stellar GPA and MCAT. Cause, there's no excuse for you, young man.

Can anyone relate? Easy on the slams. I know it sounds like I'm whining (am I?). But, it's just a few very recent meetings with some state med school admin people that seem somewhat discouraging (in some ways only).

Again, what else can be done to separate yourself from being "average" in the eyes of the admin. commitee?

Be constructive.

i hope you wrote about your experiences working and within your family--they sound unusual and interesting among med school candidates, for real. if your ps and secondary essays contained the stuff you wrote about here, minus any whiny or bitter tone, plus why you want to be a doc, i'd think you'd stand out well enough.

 

[vhawk]

"Yer," I suppose means "you are."
"Good work, speech police, Al Gore expects you back by five." This is a comma splice. These are two separate statements that require a period between them.

"Just so I can be part of the mudslinging....man"
Four periods as opposed to three means the sentence is ended. The next word "man" should be started with a capital letter "M."

I don't much care for bandying words with a clearly rude person. I much prefer to help others, and in this case, it appears it's your grammar that could use the help.

Finally, perhaps you are right. There might be forums - satirical forums - where awful statements that hurt and degrade other people are allowed. They are never appropriate even if allowed. SDN is not one of these sorts of places. George Carlin has yet to post on SDN. Pending that happening, everyone should abide by the TOS regulations. Thanks and God bless.

Are you kidding me? The real question is, how many times did you go back over and over your post to make absolutely sure there were no mistakes, so as not to be labeled a hypocrite? Also, pointing out my clear and obvious learning disability sure seems rude. 🙄

 

[reLAXgirl]

Thank you all for such illuminating posts! I have been in the dental forums where everyone is so uptight because a few extra seats are being "reserved" for "lesser qualified" minorities threatening the chances of a white male to get into school because he isn't as qualified as he should be. I was beginning to think I was the only one in the world that believed that discrimination still is a problem and that people care. On the other forum people have complained about Howard and Meharry as mostly black instutions ("it's not fair!") and I was so mad at the shortsightedness of such comments. Thanks for giving me hope about the world again!

 

[cfdavid]

The fact that this post has lasted this long is because it's evolved a bit from the origional posting/title. It happens. And it wouldn't be the first time.
So live with it, or just don't read the post. Pretty simple.

 

[MD'05]

My cousin wears a hijab(female head cover that muslim women wear/ from her own choice). During her interview at Penn all they did was talk about the hijab and why she chose to wear it. Keep in mind she went to undergrad at penn. She had a 41 MCAT and a 3.94 GPA from penn. She also had killer ECs but regaurdless she got turned down because of the a-hole at the interview.

There are alot of Jewish patients that get treated at Penn and surrounding areas. They might not want a muslim to treat them.

Also did you ever think that RangerD should have come out with an all out with a statement against prisoner abuse? You weren't there. I have told you a story and so has RangerD. For all you know RangerD had a bad gpa and could be another army brickhead(they produce tons that want to go to medical school. not that rangerD is one).

Why should he? I wouldn't have. I bet your cousin didn't apologize for the approximately 3,000 people who died from the attacks on 9/11.

You are actually mixing apples with oranges here. The discussion was about what a white guy could do to be acceptable to an adcom.

 

[visualwealth]

Why are people so racist?? Why can't we just look at each other as individuals instead of trying to fit every person of similar race and ethnicity into one group...

 

[swifteagle43]

There are alot of Jewish patients that get treated at Penn and surrounding areas. They might not want a muslim to treat them.



Why should he? I wouldn't have. I bet your cousin didn't apologize for the approximately 3,000 people who died from the attacks on 9/11.

You are actually mixing apples with oranges here. The discussion was about what a white guy could do to be acceptable to an adcom.

The muslim community is ashamed of those who commited those horrific acts on 9-11. And we are very forthcomming and open to admit that those people are not good muslims. Now RangerD did not do the same now did he?

If somebody at an interview asked me about 9-11 I would be very forthcomming in my hatered for those that committed such a terrible act against humanity. But I doubt you would because I guess I have something called humanity(maybe thats why he got rejected?).

And actually Penn students are jewish not necessarily everyone around Penn. Penn is located in Philidelphia(aka Will Smith sang about "in the playground of west philidelphia is where i spent most of my days"). Trust me- if you got robbed like one of my cousins friends did 5 minute outside campus you wouldn't be singing its praises about having a high jewish population.

The truth is that the interviewer was racist. Penn is not owned by jews and a patient doesn't care what color or religion his doctor is. Shouldn't it be about the best candidate now?

I can also flip this argument back against you: well maybe AHANA(African-American Hispanic Asian Native America) people want AHANA doctors so maybe we should take your spot! 🙂

Point is- racism exsist! DEAL WITH IT! The system is as fair as it can get considering all the bad things in this world.

 

[MD'05]

The muslim community is ashamed of those who commited those horrific acts on 9-11. And we are very forthcomming and open to admit that those people are not good muslims. Now RangerD did not do the same now did he?

If somebody at an interview asked me about 9-11 I would be very forthcomming in my hatered for those that committed such a terrible act against humanity. But I doubt you would because I guess I have something called humanity(maybe thats why he got rejected?).

And actually Penn students are jewish not necessarily everyone around Penn. Penn is located in Philidelphia(aka Will Smith sang about "in the playground of west philidelphia is where i spent most of my days"). Trust me- if you got robbed like one of my cousins friends did 5 minute outside campus you wouldn't be singing its praises about having a high jewish population.

The truth is that the interviewer was racist. Penn is not owned by jews and a patient doesn't care what color or religion his doctor is. Shouldn't it be about the best candidate now?

I can also flip this argument back against you: well maybe AHANA(African-American Hispanic Asian Native America) people want AHANA doctors so maybe we should take your spot! 🙂

Point is- racism exsist! DEAL WITH IT! The system is as fair as it can get considering all the bad things in this world.

In all fairness, I would have to know more about your cousin's situation. Maybe the interviewer wanted to learn more about islam and your cousin became visibly upset and blew the interview. The interviewer might have been attempting to make your cousin feel more at ease.

Sorry to hear that your cousin's friend got robbed. I am not sure what that has to do with a Jewish population.

 

[swifteagle43]

In all fairness, I would have to know more about your cousin's situation. Maybe the interviewer wanted to learn more about islam and your cousin became visibly upset and blew the interview. The interviewer might have been attempting to make your cousin feel more at ease.

Sorry to hear that your cousin's friend got robbed. I am not sure what that has to do with a Jewish population.

Erm...high jewish population(like my area) = $$$ land value. West philidelphia is a poor poor area(ghetto).

 

[MD'05]

Erm...high jewish population(like my area) = $$$ land value. West philidelphia is a poor poor area(ghetto).

Oh. So what is the population like then?

 

[GuyLaroche]

Are you kidding me? The real question is, how many times did you go back over and over your post to make absolutely sure there were no mistakes, so as not to be labeled a hypocrite? Also, pointing out my clear and obvious learning disability sure seems rude. 🙄

Aw! I am sorry. Let's kiss and make-up.

 

[swifteagle43]

Oh. So what is the population like then?

Well...west philideplhia has a lot of poor african americans.

 

[GuyLaroche]

The muslim community is ashamed of those who commited those horrific acts on 9-11. And we are very forthcomming and open to admit that those people are not good muslims. Now RangerD did not do the same now did he?

If somebody at an interview asked me about 9-11 I would be very forthcomming in my hatered for those that committed such a terrible act against humanity. But I doubt you would because I guess I have something called humanity(maybe thats why he got rejected?).

And actually Penn students are jewish not necessarily everyone around Penn. Penn is located in Philidelphia(aka Will Smith sang about "in the playground of west philidelphia is where i spent most of my days"). Trust me- if you got robbed like one of my cousins friends did 5 minute outside campus you wouldn't be singing its praises about having a high jewish population.

The truth is that the interviewer was racist. Penn is not owned by jews and a patient doesn't care what color or religion his doctor is. Shouldn't it be about the best candidate now?

I can also flip this argument back against you: well maybe AHANA(African-American Hispanic Asian Native America) people want AHANA doctors so maybe we should take your spot! 🙂

Point is- racism exsist! DEAL WITH IT! The system is as fair as it can get considering all the bad things in this world.

I must confess, I am terribly foreign. Still, my English is not so poor as to have me as entirely confused as I was after reading the above post. If you SDNers would be so kind as to translate the above post into a more digestible and comprehensible form, I'd be most indebted. Thanks and God bless.

 

[MD'05]

I must confess, I am terribly foreign. Still, my English is not so poor as to have me as entirely confused as I was after reading the above post. If you SDNers would be so kind as to translate the above post into a more digestible and comprehensible form, I'd be most indebted. Thanks and God bless.

That's funny. I understood exactly what he is saying.

 

[RangerD]

Also did you ever think that RangerD should have come out with an all out with a statement against prisoner abuse? You weren't there. I have told you a story and so has RangerD. For all you know RangerD had a bad gpa and could be another army brickhead(they produce tons that want to go to medical school. not that rangerD is one).

FYI ... RangerD's GPA is 3.9 and RangerD did express his disgust about the prisoner abuse to the interviewer. However, the interviewer kept pressing and pressing, claiming that he knew I must be lying because he knew that anyone in the Army would do the same thing in that situation. I tried to explain that the Army is made of individuals, just like anywhere else. Some of those individuals have high moral standards, while others don't. This situation was an example of some of those who don't. He didn't buy it. Instead, he was convinced there was so much conformity in the military that there was one single mind-set and a common willingness to infringe on the rights of others at will. 👎

As for the 'brickhead' comment...I don't know...maybe I am! My wife claims I'm pretty hard-headed.

 

[RangerD]

The muslim community is ashamed of those who commited those horrific acts on 9-11. And we are very forthcomming and open to admit that those people are not good muslims. Now RangerD did not do the same now did he?

Actually, RangerD DID do that.

Point is- racism exsist! DEAL WITH IT! The system is as fair as it can get considering all the bad things in this world.

I agree totally. The system is fair as it is now. For medical school, your stats and application gets you the interview...not your race. Once you are at an interview, your race may or may not be a factor. This is because the interview is very subjective due to the individual preferences of the interviewer. Some interviewers have conscious or subconscious prejudices that influence their opinion of the applicant. This just happens and there isn't anything that can be done about it because it is ingrained in that individual.

I should also add that I interviewed at 10 medical schools. At each school, there were 2 interviews....so there was a total of 20 interviews that I went on. Out of those 20 interviews, 19 were great. Those interviewers did not show any prejudice one way or the other. It was only in the one case that I felt there was a prejudice against me because of my background: ex-Army white male. That guy was the exception, not the standard.

 

[swifteagle43]

Actually, RangerD DID do that.



I agree totally. The system is fair as it is now. For medical school, your stats and application gets you the interview...not your race. Once you are at an interview, your race may or may not be a factor. This is because the interview is very subjective due to the individual preferences of the interviewer. Some interviewers have conscious or subconscious prejudices that influence their opinion of the applicant. This just happens and there isn't anything that can be done about it because it is ingrained in that individual.

I should also add that I interviewed at 10 medical schools. At each school, there were 2 interviews....so there was a total of 20 interviews that I went on. Out of those 20 interviews, 19 were great. Those interviewers did not show any prejudice one way or the other. It was only in the one case that I felt there was a prejudice against me because of my background: ex-Army white male. That guy was the exception, not the standard.

ahhh fark....sorry to hear that bro. See I wasn't there but I can believe what you are saying. I know tons of white people that won't believe that the muslim community as a whole are not hateful people. It is only a few crazy/uneducated ones that are like that. I know what you mean bro...sorry to hear that.

 

[RangerD]

ahhh fark....sorry to hear that bro. See I wasn't there but I can believe what you are saying. I know tons of white people that won't believe that the muslim community as a whole are not hateful people. It is only a few crazy/uneducated ones that are like that. I know what you mean bro...sorry to hear that.

Yeah, I know it is frustrating for you guys. I have some good friends that are muslim. 99.9% of the people here of middle eastern descent are good people. It is crazy how that 0.1% can create such a prejudice that is so widespread.

One possible reason is that it seems those Islam extremists that are reported in the news are, many times, very well educated people. These are people educated at Oxford, or other prestigous institutions. They were undoubtedly people that blended well into the university like any other student. They probably were very friendly to everyone while they were there. They lived among the people that they apparently hated. I think it just freaks many people out that they can't just look at someone and tell if they are a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy'. The person sitting next to them in the university may be the nicest person in the world, or he may be pretending to like you, only to be hating you in private. This person may be secretly planning to commit some horrendous crime. Who knows?

People want an easy way to identify friend or foe. When the Islam extremists are arrested for planning or participating in the murder of innocents, the people watching on TV try to look for identifying characteristics that will aid them in identifying friend or foe for future reference. But, unfortunately, the only identifying characteristic that sticks with many people is that it was a 'middle-eastern looking guy'. There starts the prejudice.

As I said before, this is unfortunate. People should not look at characteristics like race and try to put everyone is the same category. Every person is unique. Every race has some bad-guys, but that shouldn't be a burden that the whole race must carry. For example, the white guys have people like Ted Bundy. However, I don't think all white guys are characterized as serial killers by people in other races. Therefore, it is not fair that the muslim prejudice has occured as it has.

Swifteagle43, trust me that there are many of us that do not feel that way. I know some do, but they are just ignorant. Hang in there brother... 🙂

 

[vhawk]

Yeah, I know it is frustrating for you guys. I have some good friends that are muslim. 99.9% of the people here of middle eastern descent are good people. It is crazy how that 0.1% can create such a prejudice that is so widespread.

One possible reason is that it seems those Islam extremists that are reported in the news are, many times, very well educated people. These are people educated at Oxford, or other prestigous institutions. They were undoubtedly people that blended well into the university like any other student. They probably were very friendly to everyone while they were there. They lived among the people that they apparently hated. I think it just freaks many people out that they can't just look at someone and tell if they are a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy'. The person sitting next to them in the university may be the nicest person in the world, or he may be pretending to like you, only to be hating you in private. This person may be secretly planning to commit some horrendous crime. Who knows?

People want an easy way to identify friend or foe. When the Islam extremists are arrested for planning or participating in the murder of innocents, the people watching on TV try to look for identifying characteristics that will aid them in identifying friend or foe for future reference. But, unfortunately, the only identifying characteristic that sticks with many people is that it was a 'middle-eastern looking guy'. There starts the prejudice.

As I said before, this is unfortunate. People should not look at characteristics like race and try to put everyone is the same category. Every person is unique. Every race has some bad-guys, but that shouldn't be a burden that the whole race must carry. For example, the white guys have people like Ted Bundy. However, I don't think all white guys are characterized as serial killers by people in other races. Therefore, it is not fair that the muslim prejudice has occured as it has.

Swifteagle43, trust me that there are many of us that do not feel that way. I know some do, but they are just ignorant. Hang in there brother... 🙂

Good post, and I agree with what you say. However, I dont know if its that some Middle Easterners are terrorists like some white guys are Ted Bundy, so much as ALL terrorists are of Middle Eastern descent or pretend to believe in Islam, and call themselves Islamic fundamentalist/extremists. I think people can cope with the idea that if a guy blows up a school, and happens to be Iranian, thats fine, but when every single time someone straps a bomb to themselves, they are Muslim, thats the hard part. Again, clearly the VAST majority of Muslims are good, honest people(at least, to the same extent as everyone else, not trying to imply they are better), but the VAST majority of terrorists are also Muslim. See how its hard, even for people who ARENT stupid white trash bigots?

 

[lilshrub82]

here here!!!

 

[GuyLaroche]

Well...west philideplhia has a lot of poor african americans.

I asked for an explanation of your original post because this byproduct of that post leaves me baffled. What are you trying to say?