Marginalization of average white males

[Reckoning]

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I will not lighten up. I am passionate about medicine, and I hope that those who are also going into this calling would like to see it available to everyone "fairly".

and for visualwealth, i blame no one but myself for not performing upto the standards that I set for myself. At the end of the day I will be a doctor and I clearly don't see medical school as the "competition" as you do. I hope to help people with the skills I learn, and maybe even learn more about myself in the process. Does that make me less of a future medical school student or am I possibly just self-actualized and not worried about my ego?

Driven does not equal arrogant dingus.

The last place we need to be whining about fairness is in one of the best educated, highest paid, and most respected professions in the world. Please.

This thread is officially lame. 👎

Edit: Ok. It was always kind of lame.

 

[SRQGirl]

Also, don't assume that because he's only got "acceptable" scores and happens to be a white guy, that he's having a tough time due to the fact that he has the personality of an ash tray.

I assumed he has a crappy personality not because he's having a tough time - hey, we're all having a tough time - but because he assumes that the bottom third of each medical class is made up of underqualified women and minorities while the top third is made up of above average white males, and that this trend puts him at a disadvantage.

 

[swifteagle43]

Second, I like to think that I am an above average middle class white male.

Well isn't that the surprise of the century? :sarcasm:

 

[goheel]

Well aren't you the surprise of the century.

👍

 

[Premedtomed]

The white race is superior. Why don't we ever get an upper hand?

This will all succumb into the great race war... where the europeans have all of the best history of imperialism, etc. on their backs. 😉

Seriously, there needs to be awards based on merit. Just listen to Eminem's lyrics.

Remember... people are pawns and when you know how to use them, you are powerful. 😉

The anti asian law will be renewed in due time.. it was passed in the 1880s, and will most likely occur again.

Back to dish washing, you pseudo intellectual

 

[bluejellybelly]

The white race is superior. Why don't we ever get an upper hand?

The anti asian law will be renewed in due time.. it was passed in the 1880s, and will most likely occur again.

Don't even start. Don't hate either. I know some Asians that work their asses off, so give them credit for doing exactly what everyone else is doing.

 

[bluejellybelly]

I am not trying to play the race card here, but reverse descrimination is a fact and a real issue.

Oh my god! It is!!! ITS SUCH A BIG ISSUE THAT THERES NO PROOF. Until white males become the URMs theres no way to let the adcoms know.

 

[amnesia]

I give them credit. Most european americans that I know are very 'nostalgic' for the past when they reigned supreme. Surely it will happen again?

Racism is a part of nature. Xenophobia is around. Asia is 100% xenophobic. They won't let you into asia without asian blood. Read the immigration websites. You're wrong, I am right.

Attentive, learn the truth.

I know asians work hard, but really, it should be based on merit. Our generation needs to change it.


btw, the US and canada would not be the way they are without a majority of europeans in them. 🙂

What do you see in Egypt that is at all european? At one time Egypt was white, and that was when it was a super power.

 

[neoneil]

eh, your assumption that the lower 1/3 of the class is under represented minorities is just plain degrading. I bet some of them could actually be better than you? Please stop with these generalizations - we don't need doctors who think like you anyway.

I am a white male and second time applicant to MD school. I finished undergrad with a 3.1 and am getting my masters with a 4.0. I have an average competitive MCAT score.
From my research and observations I have developed a theory that the admissions process is heavily weighted toward their matriculated students’ statistics. They have an idea of the average they want to obtain for that years entering class- say an MCAT average of 27. A state school will generally take one-third under-qualified students with statistics less than their goal, this demographic ends up being under represented minorities and females. Thus, they will take one-third over-qualified students to swing their average, which ends up being more of your above average white male. That leaves the other third for people who line up with the school’s chosen statistical average. This tends to be a higher proportion of the applicant pool, thereby making it most competitive. These spots are even harder for males to get. Thus, these males are ending up in osteopathic programs where 70% of there matriculates are white average males. Ten to fifteen years ago these applicants would be more competitive at allopathic schools.
What is your opinion of my theory?

 

[GuyLaroche]

Lions, and tigers, and bears! Oh My!

 

[jake2]

Some actual data. Do with it as you will.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/mcatgparaceeth.htm

 

[BeatArmy]

Some actual data. Do with it as you will.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/mcatgparaceeth.htm

Funny. Which race has the highest MCATs and GPAs???
The winner is... The Unknowns!!!!

They are really smart, i wonder why they can't figure out which race they belong to?

Also funny that the foreigners beat most categories, including us whiteys, in the writing sample.

 

[Premedtomed]

[ 👎

 

[GuyLaroche]

At one time Egypt was white, and that was when it was a super power.

This statement is super disturbing. Care to explain further, or shall I just assume that you're a helpless bigot?

 

[medstyle]

asians had the highest mcat for matriculating students.

Stop whining white people. I am not, so you definately shouldn't be.

 

[goheel]

They won't let you into asia without asian blood. Read the immigration websites. You're wrong, I am right.

Uh, they do let white people go to Asia. 🙄 You're seriously need to shut your mouth before you gonna get banned. Come back when you're actually in college. 😎

 

[goheel]

What do you see in Egypt that is at all european? At one time Egypt was white, and that was when it was a super power.

Egypt was never white. Ancient Egyptians weren't white. Get your facts straight. 😉

 

[visualwealth]

Okay so the average black MCAT is 25 and the average white is 30. But, you have to look past the obvious and critically think. There are historically black colleges that tend to give AA with low stats a chance. There are also other factors... what it comes down to is averages are just averages.. What pisses me off is when people assume that every minority had like a 3.5 and 21 .. Many minorites do well and end up at top ivy league schools/others choose to accept scholarships to state schools...remember for a school to be highly ranked it needs to have diversity thus, some state schools have no choice but to take the best minorites they can get!!. Look on MD applicants there are good and bad students in every race... also many whites/asians do pretty badly and still get into med school according to mdapplicants. Med school look for qualified applicants thus, they will not take a chance on someone that does not have the mental faculties to compete.

Think about it bit*ches lol haha

 

[swifteagle43]

Egypt was never white. Ancient Egyptians weren't white. Get your facts straight. 😉

true

 

[amnesia]

yes they were.

white-history.org ... read that website. I can explain myself. there are three european sects: mediterranean (ancient rome // egypt // greece), nordic, and alpine

you are a bigot for not understanding stuff. and i dont think you guys have learned history correctly.

Premedtomed, you are a person with common sense. I like you. 🙂

Yes, Islam is a problem. They preach hate. it says in sura 22... but most here never became fluent in arabic!

 

[bluejellybelly]

I know asians work hard, but really, it should be based on merit. Our generation needs to change it.

What? You don't think asians enter in based on their merit?
I dunno, but only URMs get special consideration.
Dude, check out the list of URMS. They don't really fall into it.

Look in your MSAR:

Here is what mine says:

Races and ethnicity:
White
Asian pacific Islander
URMs (and its lists all sorts, none of which are asian)

SO how is it that they "cheat" this system? Don't they follow the same path as white applicants?

And I still see the greater percentage of matriculants being white applicants.

Why are you guys trying to bash others just because you're not happy with the admissions process?

 

[Kal-El]

Relax guys, I'm pretty sure amnesia is joking. He isn't really a white supremist.

 

[GuyLaroche]

you are a bigot for not understanding stuff. and i dont think you guys have learned history correctly. Yes, Islam is a problem

Alright, alright! Quit while you still have a sliver of hope at being considered a decent person worthy of the medical profession. Besides, one is not a bigot for "not understanding stuff." One is a bigot for refusing to "understand stuff." The Islam statement probably places you in that category.

And there goes my resolution to be the nicest, nicest person.

 

[monstermatch]

I just want to point out an obvious fact. If you have two individuals of any race and they have equal qualifications - ones gets in and one doesn't. The real difference was the interview - ADCOM's put a LOT of stock in how you perform in your interview, and they will always use this to differentiate between 2 equally qualified individuals. If you're that guy who got rejected, you need to improve your interview skills - Believe me, it doesn't take much for you to sink your app if you give weak or bad answers during your interview. I've helped interview applicants at my med school I've heard some weird stuff come out of pre-meds mouths - always gets them a bad rating.

 

[DianaLynne]

The last place we need to be whining about fairness is in one of the best educated, highest paid, and most respected professions in the world. Please.

This thread is officially lame. 👎

Edit: Ok. It was always kind of lame.

This thread is lame? Crap, and I read it! Can I have that time back please? I've gotten into it over the whole AA issue before and wow, talk about a frustrating conversation.

I do have to take issue with the whole idea of reverse discrimination. For discrimination to exist, we have to take into account the idea of the power hierarchy. The group with power (historically white hetero males) discriminates against the groups without power (women, other ethicities, other sexual orientations) and that is discrimination. Reverse discrimination in med school suggests that the adcoms (clearly the ones here with the power) have disempowered white hetero males and are passing them over in favor of the other populations, regardless of ability or accomplishments. Is that really what's happening? Or are the adcoms still working within an imperfect system trying to create diverse classes?

Heck, I dunno. I'm just a white chick.

 

[bananaface]

I personally think the "reverse" portion of the phrase is ******ed. Discrimination is discrimination. It's not like it has an established, acceptable direction. 🙄

 

[GuyLaroche]

I personally think the "reverse" portion of the phrase is ******ed. Discrimination is discrimination. It's not like it has an established, acceptable direction. 🙄

This argument needs a nap -it's so tired.

 

[goheel]

yes they were.

white-history.org ... read that website. I can explain myself. there are three european sects: mediterranean (ancient rome // egypt // greece), nordic, and alpine

you are a bigot for not understanding stuff. and i dont think you guys have learned history correctly.

Premedtomed, you are a person with common sense. I like you. 🙂

Yes, Islam is a problem. They preach hate. it says in sura 22... but most here never became fluent in arabic!

Do me a favor, when you gets to college, take sociology. 😉

 

[RangerD]

A state school will generally take one-third under-qualified students with statistics less than their goal, this demographic ends up being under represented minorities and females.

In many cities where you will find medical schools, the white male IS the minority!

The most important thing you can do to improve your chance of getting in is to improve your MCAT score so it is ABOVE average and do some cool volunteer work or something else that makes you stand out.

 

[RangerD]

Now I believe diversity is important, but I also think that everyone deserves an equal chance. I think selection should be based on qualifications, not race.

"Our Constitution makes it clear that people of all races must be treated equally under the law"

You don't fix a wrong with another wrong. I know not all schools make admissions decisions based on race (affirmative action), but some do. I just can't see how it is right to give preference to someone because of their race, and this is what affirmative action does. It wasn't right when slave owners did it, and it isn't right when schools do it. Most of my friends who are "minority" and have high stats and good credentials agree because AA makes them look bad.

"The undergraduate admission process involves a point system where African-American, Hispanic and Native American applicants earn 20 points on the basis of race out of a 150-point system"

As I recall, the result of this case was just that UM couldn't use a point system, but did not rule out AA. Just because they aren't using a "point system" doesn't mean they still aren't giving that much preference.

"...Michigan's undergraduate plan, which rewarded more points for being black, Hispanic or Native American than for a perfect score on the SAT."


But that is my rant... i shouldnt be complaining because i got into medical school, but something deep inside me is upset that selection on race is still occuring.


I think it is wrong for people to blaim people of other races for their own short-comings... but, this is the result of AA. If a certain person is favored unfairly, it is human nature to be upset over this. Blah... what do i know, i'm just a spoiled white male.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/15/bush.affirmativeaction/
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,460435,00.html

👍 👍 👍

 

[amnesia]

some of you are missing the point.

the european american students should be the majority matriculating... we are, after all, a european nation with a majority of europeans.

there is nothing wrong with that. go to mexico for a majority of mexicans. go to china for a majority of chinese ... but then again, those countries suck, so i don't see many taking the oppurtunity.

 

[amnesia]

Do me a favor, when you gets to college, take sociology. 😉

screw dat. you must be from UNC where you had to read the quran. I'd shove it in their face and sue. 😉 but that is already happening...

 

[RangerD]

after all, a european nation with a majority of europeans.

I thought we were an American nation with a majority of Americans... 😕

 

[RangerD]

I do have to take issue with the whole idea of reverse discrimination. For discrimination to exist, we have to take into account the idea of the power hierarchy. The group with power (historically white hetero males) discriminates against the groups without power (women, other ethicities, other sexual orientations) and that is discrimination. Reverse discrimination in med school suggests that the adcoms (clearly the ones here with the power) have disempowered white hetero males and are passing them over in favor of the other populations, regardless of ability or accomplishments. Is that really what's happening? Or are the adcoms still working within an imperfect system trying to create diverse classes?

Heck, I dunno. I'm just a white chick.

It may not happen all the time, but I know for a fact it happened at one of my interviews! 😡 OK, picture this...I'm a white male, ex-Army combat veteran. I go to this medical school interview and am interviewed by this Middle Eastern (I think of Iraqi decent) physician who is part of the adcom. This guy was combative with me during the whole interview...all he talks about is the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. He kepts saying that, with my background, I was probably in similar situations and how does he know that I didn't do similar things. He kept pressing and pressing and accusing and accusing...it was a bad experience! 😡 The guy really pissed me off... However, I kept my cool the whole time thinking it might have just been a test to see if he could un-nerve me and that at some point we would get to the REAL interview. Well, the REAL interview NEVER happened. It was that BS combative session the whole time.

I didn't report him to the Dean because I figured if he is representative of that school, I don't care to attend anyway.

So my point is...IT DOES HAPPEN. Maybe not often, but reverse discrimination does occur.

 

[bluejellybelly]

some of you are missing the point.

the european american students should be the majority matriculating... we are, after all, a european nation with a majority of europeans.

Ok, so you think AMERICA (your idea of a european nation) should have their own race, "European American" (caucasians) be th majority of the matriculating class...?

I don't see any reason for you to be unhappy. White people are still the predominant percentage of matriculants.

Also, I've never heard a single person on sdn use the term European to describe America. Surely, its understandable that you're thinking White people, but America was never a white country. (It wasn't to begin with, and it isn't now.)

 

[goheel]

screw dat. you must be from UNC where you had to read the quran. I'd shove it in their face and sue. 😉 but that is already happening...

News flash, UVA is even more liberal than UNC. So if you don't like liberal ideas, don't apply to UVA.

 

[leechy]

I didn't report him to the Dean because I figured if he is representative of that school, I don't care to attend anyway.

So my point is...IT DOES HAPPEN. Maybe not often, but reverse discrimination does occur.

That's horrible. You should really report that, especially since you're no longer interested in the school. The school as a whole might not be bad, it might just be that one guy, and on the chance that they take your report seriously (not likely, I know, but possible) you might save others from a terrible interviewer. Just a thought.

 

[GuyLaroche]

Amnesia posted a link to a white supremacist website! I was mortified. I have never seen anything so grotesque. Can we get Amnesia banned?

 

[leechy]

white-history.org ... read that website. I can explain myself. there are three european sects: mediterranean (ancient rome // egypt // greece), nordic, and alpine

Amnesia is one of the most unintentionally funny posters on this forum.

"Alpine" has a nice ring to it... I keep thinking ski lodges and hot chocolate

 

[leechy]

Amnesia posted a link to a white supremacist website! I was mortified. I have never seen anything so grotesque. Can we get Amnesia banned?

Yeah, I'm surprised he's gotten away with this much already.

 

[Blake]

Amnesia posted a link to a white supremacist website! I was mortified. I have never seen anything so grotesque. Can we get Amnesia banned?

Is that really a surprise ? This guy will be in med school in a few years, mark my words. 🙄

 

[goheel]

High school kids, got so much to learn. I was an arrogant jerk in highschool too, but college opened my eyes a whole lot.

 

[Benign_foodtube]

I don't think Amnesia is being serious, you guys, I think he's just trying to get you guys' goat, and playing a lil devils advocate. I mean if he is being serious- then sheeeeeiiiiiit, I didn't think they came that dumb.

 

[goheel]

I mean if he is being serious- then sheeeeeiiiiiit, I didn't think they came that dumb.

You'll be surprised. 😉

 

[GuyLaroche]

I don't think Amnesia is being serious, you guys, I think he's just trying to get you guys' goat, and playing a lil devils advocate. I mean if he is being serious- then sheeeeeiiiiiit, I didn't think they came that dumb.

I cannot believe you're advocating anything so hateful to be considered as a joke! It's absolutely not funny, and the mods ( where on earth are they? ) should swiftly end this thread. There never is a time when making these sorts of awful statements is appropriate. Highschooler or no, his posts are terribly offensive. Perhaps a long ban would teach him the virtues of tolerance and respect. Go to your room, amnesia! Now!

 

[gbiz]

being the average applicant of any sex of any race doesnt get you into med school. being above average gets you in. gpa and test scores do not define being above average.

the stupid thing is people think other people who are less deserving are getting into schools over them because of their race. they think they are more deserving because they may have a slightly higher gpa or mcat score. but that is not everything.

if you think that is why other people are getting into med school over you, then admissions saw a lot about you. buidling the best class is not about having the highest possible MCAT scores- its about building a class of students who respect each other, who help each other, and who learn together. varying backgrounds and experiences is essential to that.

so being the average white male applicant, you have nothing extra to offer over any of the other 30,000 average white male applicants.




And as a side note, I am a white male.

 

[Kal-El]

Just a heads up to you amnesia. You are not getting into medical school unless you change your attitude. I supposed you could lie to your interviewers or avoid questions about your strong feelings regarding these issues. But what good would that do in the long run?

 

[ThrowdOffGyrl]

It may not happen all the time, but I know for a fact it happened at one of my interviews! 😡 OK, picture this...I'm a white male, ex-Army combat veteran. I go to this medical school interview and am interviewed by this Middle Eastern (I think of Iraqi decent) physician who is part of the adcom. This guy was combative with me during the whole interview...all he talks about is the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. He kepts saying that, with my background, I was probably in similar situations and how does he know that I didn't do similar things. He kept pressing and pressing and accusing and accusing...it was a bad experience! 😡 The guy really pissed me off... However, I kept my cool the whole time thinking it might have just been a test to see if he could un-nerve me and that at some point we would get to the REAL interview. Well, the REAL interview NEVER happened. It was that BS combative session the whole time.

I didn't report him to the Dean because I figured if he is representative of that school, I don't care to attend anyway.

So my point is...IT DOES HAPPEN. Maybe not often, but reverse discrimination does occur.

What he did was inappropriate....and had less to do with discrimination because you were a white male, and more to do with his personal vendetta against anyone who represented the military. You should've reported him. You'll always find people like him..no matter where you go....you shouldn't have let him completely change your view of the school. But had you reported it, and THEN received negative feedback from the school...then I could see why you would dismiss them.

 

[ThrowdOffGyrl]

being the average applicant of any sex of any race doesnt get you into med school. being above average gets you in. gpa and test scores do not define being above average.

the stupid thing is people think other people who are less deserving are getting into schools over them because of their race. they think they are more deserving because they may have a slightly higher gpa or mcat score. but that is not everything.

if you think that is why other people are getting into med school over you, then admissions saw a lot about you. buidling the best class is not about having the highest possible MCAT scores- its about building a class of students who respect each other, who help each other, and who learn together. varying backgrounds and experiences is essential to that.

so being the average white male applicant, you have nothing extra to offer over any of the other 30,000 average white male applicants.




And as a side note, I am a white male.

I agree....


I'm a little tired of people assuming that the "bottom half" of those admitted represent minorities. Committees look at socioeconomic background, how well you can relate to people,...did you gain anything from the clubs you joined and the ECs you participated in..or did you simply inflate your role in the activities?....soooo much goes into their decision. I guess it's just easier to assume that the 10-15 URM out of a class of 200 couldn't possibly be as qualified as you. I'm proof that they look at more than stats like MCAT scores and G.P.A. (25 on MCAT, 3.6 G.P.A.)....got good LORs b/c I actually enjoyed my classes, and the profs could see that. Showed the committees I know how to manage my time...I competed as an NCAA athlete while spending hours studying for my pre med classes. I interned with the FBI. There are a lot of URM out there just like me. For the people who feel like they've been cheated...write a note to the committees that rejected you, and just ask them what you can do in the future to make yourself a more competitive applicant. You might be surprised to hear that it has nothing to do with your ethnicity.

 

[swifteagle43]

yes they were.

white-history.org ... read that website. I can explain myself. there are three european sects: mediterranean (ancient rome // egypt // greece), nordic, and alpine

you are a bigot for not understanding stuff. and i dont think you guys have learned history correctly.

Premedtomed, you are a person with common sense. I like you. 🙂

Yes, Islam is a problem. They preach hate. it says in sura 22... but most here never became fluent in arabic!

nobody teaches hate except people. Jerry Falwell preaches hate! And so do some people on the other side of the world.

To say a religion teaches hate is absolutely wrong.

I can pick specific lines for matthew, mark and luke and say all christians are like this or like that. If you are jewish I can pick whole chapters out of the Talmoud. The media will have you believe one thing but if you have actually interacted with any american muslims you find out that they are VERY friendly people.

I think you are joking so I am going to let this slide.