Marine OCS/active duty/med. school classes/etc.

[Mister T]

Hi folks,
I had a few questions and confusions with becoming a Marine Officer and entering medical school. A little background: Biomedical engineer with 3.35 GPA, 32 MCAT from a top public university.
Two of my goals in life has been to serve the military and also become a doctor.
I am currently using this semester for preparing for the MCAT in hopes of getting over a 35. This is because my undergrad GPA is too low for MD schools in America because I'm not competent enough according to their standards.
Seeing as I am a few years older than the average premed, I figured that if GPA is holding me back then I would probably have to do a master's of some sort and/or take a few more years taking classes to "prove" myself and I refuse to waste time taking classes that may or may not help me and only add more debt while not advancing my career.
So I am thinking about applying for the Marine OCS program that runs for 10 weeks from October to December, and commissioning in January of 2011 or so (is this correct?) and I believe the standard contract is 3.5 years of "Active Duty" and 5.5 years of "Inactive reserve."

So my confusion is, if I don't get into medical school based on inadequate stats/bad luck/whatever for this coming application cycle, then I might just go Marine OCS (if I am qualified of course).

If I do get in, then this isn't a concern, but I'll assume the worst case scenario that suppose I don't get in to medical school in America (not going for DO or Carribbean, and please don't go into a discussion on this point, I have my personal reasons for this and why I want to go MD) this cycle.

Then what? Say if I start my contract (starting the basic school) in January of 2011. Does my "time" begin on Day 1 of TBS or when I am deployed or what?

While I am (and if I am) a Marine officer, what opportunities would I have for taking classes in science/master's classes (without any additional obligations)/etc. for improving myself during my contract? Are online classes a viable option in Afghanistan if I go that direction?

When is the earliest I would be able to apply to medical school if I become a marine officer? I would not like any gaps after my 3.5 years of active duty and medical school due to scheduling reasons.

If I begin my contract on January 2011 (day 1 of TBS), then it would end around June 2014 I believe. So if this is the case, would I be able to apply for medical school the summer before June 2014 (June-August 2013) and enter medical school in late August of 2014?

Is there any way I would be able to take medical school classes concurrently during my 3.5 years of active duty while abroad in Afghanistan/Iraq or even when I am in America if I were to apply and get in earlier?

When I come back from a tour, would I be able to be anywhere in the country for medical school classes or would I be stuck in certain parts of the country and thus making this not possible?

Also, when I am on active duty, I know that tours are for 6-7 months, and then you could back to America for some time, couldn't I just take medical school classes during that time and then just finish them up after I get deployed?

Finally, if there were online classes/classes on base/etc., would I have time as a Marine Officer to balance both my work schedule and class schedule too?

Thanks,
Mister T

Edit: If I do get into medical school on this summer cycle, then I'll probably apply for the HPSP or Army National Guard AMEDD program (if it's still funded/available).

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[teacherman84]

I could be wrong but I dont think any school will let you go part time while active duty. So all of that is out of the question.

You might be able to take some classes while active duty but youll have a much easier time doing it as a civillian. if you dont get in, why delay admission another 4 years?

Take classes, post-bacc or a SMP, and apply again in a year. A few full-time semesters of A's will bring a 3.5 up a bit and show an upward trend. Spend time prepping for MCAT, do a kaplan course if need be, and try again. It will only be harder trying to get things done while active duty.

If youre really gung ho to serve then look into it as a doc.

 

[DeadCactus]

Being an officer in the USMC was my initial goal in college before deciding I wanted to be a physician, so I'm familiar with what it entails. Maybe we can get someone who went that route to answer your questions, but for now:

Your 3.5 year commitment begins after you graduate from TBS, so you're commitment to AD ends roughly 4 years after you report to TBS. Assuming a deployment or stop-loss doesn't hang you up.

You cannot take medical school courses on the side while on AD. It's just not something medical schools offer.

You can MAYBE take a few of the pre-reqs and prepare for the MCAT if you need to. You probably find time to get some volunteering/clinical experience in. None of that will be an option until you finish training and get out into the fleet. Even then it's a matter of what your job is, who your command is, where you're stationed, etc. You will be deployed and re-stationed regularly, making it even more difficult.

In short, be prepared to not begin medical school until 5 years later. The timing may work out to 4 years later (especially if you have most or all of the pre-reqs done), but it's not guaranteed. You'll have some time to handle medical school related things, but it won't be your priority.

You need to read up a lot more on what being a military officer entails. You're conveying a very misunderstood impression of it. Just because you're not in Iraq doesn't mean you're free to sit around and do what you want. You'll still be training, doing admin work, field exercises, etc in the states. You're working a full-time job without the benefit of long-term predictability.

It's possible to do things to prepare for applying and attending medical school, but you are working more than a full-time job and that comes first. The USMC (or any employer) doesn't give a damn about your plans for later, so your med school concerns go on the back-burner.

I passed on the USMC because medicine was my priority and I didn't want to delay things by four or more years. Go ahead and try for a USMC commission if it's your priority above even medical school. But it would silly to do so if that's not true...

 

[Mister T]

I could be wrong but I dont think any school will let you go part time while active duty. So all of that is out of the question. You might be able to take some classes while active duty but youll have a much easier time doing it as a civillian.
if you dont get in, why delay admission another 4 years? Take classes, post-bacc or a SMP, and apply again in a year. If youre really gung ho to serve then look into it as a doc.

Well, I have enough time to figure out whether or not my MCAT score will be good enough come October (which is when OCS begins).

If I can't get it above a 35, then any classes that I take in a year is going to have a negligible effect on GPA. And SMP programs don't even boost undergrad GPA, and they're not even guaranteed (but they'll gladly suck your wallet dry!). Okay, yeah, they may guarantee that you'll get an interview of some sort, but these programs are pretty cutthroat from what I understand and I'd be competing against gunners for As and Bs.

A 32 and a 3.35 or even a 3.4 or 3.5 or even 3.6 is not good enough.

But, if while taking some time off (the 4 years basically), at least I'd have the opportunity to distance myself from my "low" gpa (though its engineering come on really?), make money, and be able to go to medical school for free through the 21st century GI Bill.

 

[Mister T]

Your 3.5 year commitment begins after you graduate from TBS, so you're commitment to AD ends roughly 4 years after you report to TBS. Assuming a deployment or stop-loss doesn't hang you up.

I have heard conflicting stories about when the obligation/commitment begins. I know that it DOESN'T begin during OCS, but does it begin on day 1 of TBS or at the end of TBS. Some people have told me the opposite of what you said, so I am unsure which is true.

And thanks for the advice. I've already completed the prereqs (As in Bio I and II, As in Gen chem I and II, B-s in orgo I and II, and physics I and II As of course) and adcoms have told me that basically I have to do better on the MCAT and/or improve my gpa by taking harder upper level classes (uhhh... ok, sure.). It doesn't seem that they care what your major/classes were as they do about the GPA, so I guess you just have to play the game the way it goes. And this is coming from the mouths of the admission committees. Extracurriculars and work experience are fine.

It sounds that during the time as a marine officer that you won't have much timet o take classes part time as it IS a full time job, so it seems the only practical/viable option is online classes if need be.

 

[DeadCactus]

Your GPA and MCAT are fine. Not ideal, but shouldn't preclude you from getting into an MD program.

You're right, the commitment begins at TBS. So it ends up being a 3 year tour in the fleet and so a 3 or 4 year delay in entering medical school. You're post just jogged my memory. Sorry, I should know better than to post from memory and not double check things I haven't looked into for 2+ years.

Either way, being a USMC officer is an experience I found tempting and worth pursuing. It is however a terrible choice if your goal is anything other than to spend 3+ years as an officer in the fleet. You may find some time to do medicine relevant things, but even something like online classes can be disrupted by a deployment or field training exercise. You may be able to pull something off, but you definitely give up the certainty and control over it.

If your goals are 1) Be a USMC Officer, 2) Be a physician then go for it. If your goals are 1) Serve in the military, 2) Be a physician then stay out. Just reapply and sign up for the military as a physician and take the far more expedient path to your goals. Be an engineer for a year or two and make some money while you re-apply (if need be)...

 

[Mister T]

Your GPA and MCAT are fine. Not ideal, but shouldn't preclude you from getting into an MD program.

You're right, the commitment begins at TBS. So it ends up being a 3 year tour in the fleet and so a 3 or 4 year delay in entering medical school. You're post just jogged my memory. Sorry, I should know better than to post from memory and not double check things I haven't looked into for 2+ years.

Either way, being a USMC officer is an experience I found tempting and worth pursuing. It is however a terrible choice if your goal is anything other than to spend 3+ years as an officer in the fleet. You may find some time to do medicine relevant things, but even something like online classes can be disrupted by a deployment or field training exercise. You may be able to pull something off, but you definitely give up the certainty and control over it.

If your goals are 1) Be a USMC Officer, 2) Be a physician then go for it. If your goals are 1) Serve in the military, 2) Be a physician then stay out. Just reapply and sign up for the military as a physician and take the far more expedient path to your goals. Be an engineer for a year or two and make some money while you re-apply (if need be)...

There is another option of course, and that is, to build a time machine, go back to before college started and talk some sense into myself


But kidding aside, I've always been amenable to joining the Marines from high school, and the only thing really precluding it was my goal of becoming a doctor too. I would like to serve this country well, develop my leadership skills, and gain all the life experiences of serving the military even in Afghanistan/Iraq (I don't mind being deployed in Afghanistan/Iraq, and i don't care if I die so long as they give me some morphine and oxycontin if I'm in excruciating pain 😱 JK).

It is an honorable thing to do, regardless of politics, and to protect and defend this country's liberties.

Again, thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

 

[notdeadyet]

A 32 and a 3.35 or even a 3.4 or 3.5 or even 3.6 is not good enough.

You're getting some very bad advice somewhere. A 32 and a 3.5 or 3.6 is about national average. Which means over half of medical students get in with less than that.

And keep in mind that the average when I applied four years ago was about 30. If you go the Marine Corps route and apply 4 or 5 years later, the odds are that it will be more competitive, not less so.

But, if while taking some time off (the 4 years basically), at least I'd have the opportunity to distance myself from my "low" gpa (though its engineering come on really?),

You'll also be distancing yourself from your science courses.

And distancing yourself from a low GPA is only effective if it's followed by recent stellar grades. A bad undergrad five years ago followed by a postbac of A's this year is a good thing. A bad undergrad five years ago followed by nothing is just a bad undergrad.

and be able to go to medical school for free through the 21st century GI Bill.

Oi... that's not the way it works. The Post 9/11 GI Bill will give you E-5 housing allowance and pay tuition up to your local state school. The state undergrad tuition, not the $25-$45K most med schools cost in tuition each year.

I'd strongly recommend meeting with a good pre-med advisor to get an idea of what you need to get in to med school, how to approach it, and how to pay for it. If you still want to go the Marine route instead, hab at it and talk to a recruiter. If you want to go the HPSP route (ASR is shut down, by the way), feel free to post questions here.

But definitely get more info before making any lasting decisions. Best of luck to you...

 

[notdeadyet]

And thanks for the advice. I've already completed the prereqs (As in Bio I and II, As in Gen chem I and II, B-s in orgo I and II, and physics I and II As of course) and adcoms have told me that basically I have to do better on the MCAT and/or improve my gpa by taking harder upper level classes (uhhh... ok, sure.).

Given that your undergrad is engineering, you'd probably be best off just taking more science coursework as GPA booster, if you were so inclined (genetics, biochem, etc.).

It doesn't seem that they care what your major/classes were as they do about the GPA

They don't care about your major until you make the first cut. If you get to the point of the interview, your major will come up when folks discuss your app. A 3.4 in engineering is not viewed the same as a 3.4 in english. But you need to have decent enough grades to make it to that point.

It sounds that during the time as a marine officer that you won't have much timet o take classes part time as it IS a full time job, so it seems the only practical/viable option is online classes if need be.

Most medical schools, right or wrong, hold very little value in onlline education. Many will not accept prerequisites done this way, so be sure you don't go that route. And if your hope is to show an upward trend in GPA, doing it via online learning is not the way to go about it.

 

[AFDuck]

Mister T, since you're so gung ho about serving in the military I'm curious if you applied to/plan to apply to UHUHS? Maybe its a good option for you, just throwing it out there.

 

[Gastrapathy]

So which is it? Do you want to be a warrior or a doctor?

If the answer is doctor, you have a decade of training ahead of you before you can actually work for a living so a 4 year delay is no good. You will not be able to significantly improve your application during your service.

Apply broadly to medical schools and post-bac programs (specifically the ones with admission guarantees) and go for it. Further, I know you said no DO schools but, military medicine is incredibly DO friendly by comparison to the real world. If you are dead set on joining, a DO isn't going to keep you from doing anything and you will be board certified from an allopathic residency.

If, on the other hand, you want to join the USMC, ooh rah Devil Dog. But there won't be much institutional or individual understanding of a Marine O who wants to go medical.

 

[ftrflyr29]

I am currently an AD USMC Officer and have been for the last 12+ years.

The commitment is 3.5 years after TBS or 6-8 years after wings depending on if you are a pilot or NFO and what you fly (jets, rotary or maritime).

I am one of those low uGPA types with an avg MCAT score-30, but will say my time as a Marine has been VERY beneficial with schools. My uGPA seems to not matter much since it was so long ago and I've done a "hard" thing (military aviation) since then. I have found that schools have been very friendly. I applied very broadly and am a FL resident with lots of great schools. I applied DO and MD and received many interview invites. I elected to go to half of the invites and have been wait-listed at 1 school, still waiting to hear from another and accepted to the remainder. All of these are MD except one.

I took all the science classes as a self-made post-bacc (w/most at a community college because it's the only one anywhere close that offered night classes) which resulted in a 3.92 GPA. I did not have any sGPA to speak of with my undergrad degree and no classes since HS Chemistry in 10th grade, so that did help. I was not trying to bring the sGPA up.

I was able to do this on my B-billet (not in the fleet). There was no way I could have done it in the fleet with deployments, etc. I spent almost half my time deployed when I was in the fleet and then constantly had other things--dets, workups, duty--you name it.

That's not to say it can't be done in the fleet, you just have to be in the right MOS (job) at the right duty station. But you can still plan on deploying. Traditionally, you will finish TBS, go to MOS school and then to the fleet for a 3-year tour. You will probably deploy, but there are onsies and twosies that don't. I have 2 very good friends who had been in 10 years and never deployed--only because of their MOS and the units they went to. If you are an MP and always assigned to a Base, you may not deploy as an example. They both requested to go on IAs (individual augments) because in this day and age not deploying is not good for the career. But....you can not plan for or expect that.

Also, wrt the post-9/11 GI Bill, in FL, it covers most of the state school's tuition--FSU, USF, UCF for 3 years, but med school is 4 so you have to pay for that last one, but the previous post about it not covering is completely state dependent. As an example, a buddy is going to UF Law and it's all covered there (yes it's only 3 years and I don't know about UF med, didn't apply). If you live in a state that has some expensive in-state schools, you'll be fine. Another note, you can use your MGIB (Montgomery GI Bill) if you rate it and there's one instance where that makes sense. If you get into a school that gives you a scholarship, and it's an area with low BAH, and you pay into the MGIB Top-up program, you may get paid more over the 36 months, then when you exhaust that, you may still have 1 year of post-9/11 benefits to exhaust, so over 4 years of med school, you would get more money--as long as you get a scholarship (or another means to pay for school) and the location has low BAH.

I have had a great time and don't regret my decision to come in first, I was at an impasse with what to do when I finished college, didn't have the pre-reqs and really wanted to do the military flying thing--which has an age limit, so I figured I'd do this first. It all worked out well. Where I'm stationed now, in the last 3 years, we have had 4 guys I know start med school, 2 in dental school, 1 in PT school, 1 Pharm school and me. I know of others not stationed here doing the same thing. It's definitely doable and there seems to be a pretty high success rate. Just an FYI, most have elected to do the civilian route (except the couple USUHS guys), or have done the Navy HSCP route because your time in school counts towards retirement. The post-9/11 GI BIll has given us options.

I do agree you should evaluate what you really want. I am older and that will definitely suck. Had I been prepared for medical school upon graduating college, I probably would have done that, but wasn't so this worked out. I think either way you go you can't go wrong.

Good Luck!

 

[Atom Anteus]

Hey Sucka, USMC here... join the Navy and become a doctor. Hell, enlist and become and get an amphibious corpsman rating and be a "doc" with recon/force recon/MARSOC or become a corpsman for the SEALS. If you want a challenge then do that. Then, have the Navy pay for your medical degree. Then, serve the Marines by becoming the best damn doctor you can be, Lord knows the Navy needs some competent docs! By all means, don't enlist in the USMC and I would strongly advise you against becoming a Marine Officer, for you simply won't have time to do classes your first 4 years. Are you an uberfreak and want to be a pilot and then a doc? Then, go ahead, still might as well do this with the Navy or USMC to Navy.

I have a degree in architecture but instead of looking deeper into the Navy and the Civil Engineer Corps program (SeaBees) I joined the USMC and went infantry. Now, I'm proud to have been a Marine, and now I work for the USN/USMC as a civil planner, but was it worth it? Well... join the Marines and get into ground combat, then if you make it out alive you will probably have some experience you can write about for med school applications. Hmmmm, something like going on your first patrol in Afghanistan and having to pick someone else's foot or your own foot after an IED has gone off in a boobytrapped hut in Afghanistan. **** it. Become a doctor with any one of the 3 services that offers it and you will find yourself on the cutting edge of trauma service and regenerative medicine if you play your cards right.

I hope you are still reading. Oh, so you "don't mind dying." Come tell that to the families of some Marines I know who lost their sons and husbands. I bet they'd tell you to become a good doctor and help save their son's life. GPA doesn't matter when you stopping a sucking chest would.

Final solution. Come to CA, grow pot, and treat all these PTSD havin motha' ****as' under the table and supply them with drug maskers to pass their piss tests. Sounds like a good option to me too.

Semper Fi,

Atom Anteus