Masks

[AMEHigh]

Unless they are actually unemployed, this is a stupid move.

You've had three years where every cent you put towards those loans goes entirely to principal. If you have the means and aren't paying at least some amount into that, it's financial stupidity of an impressive degree.

All generic "you" of course

Hmm, I disagree.
All these months have counted toward public service loans forgiveness. I haven’t paid anything and now I only have 2.5 years left until my loans are forgiven once the pause ends.
If I had paid during this time it’s not like I had an extra $350,000 laying around to pay them off. So I used the extra funds to actually build an emergency savings fund and increase my retirement savings which are really really lacking due to so many years of school and high interest rates of my student loan.

I don’t feel bad because it’s really criminal how much school costs (all my $350,000 is from med school, I thankfully had no undergrad loans) and how high the interest is. And I work in "public health" getting paid poop, so I’m going to use any and every advantage that is available to me, just like the wealthy take advantage of tax loopholes to pay no or minimum taxes.

I don’t see it as a financially stupid move.

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[Mount Asclepius]

The point being broad implementation of masking didn’t affect societal spread of disease. It could possibly be because people don’t wear them correctly or for 100% of the time. They may work at the individual level, but possibly not well at the societal level.

Edit: My post was in response to another post that has since been deleted. I’ll leave this as I think there needs to be clarification that in my opinion the point of the Cochran review wasn’t whether or not a mask works individually. It was looking at a broader scale. I will concede that the criticisms of this review pointed out in this thread and elsewhere are valid.

 

[Siggy]

The point being broad implementation of masking didn’t affect societal spread of disease. It could possibly be because people don’t wear them correctly or for 100% of the time. They may work at the individual level, but possibly not well at the societal level.

Edit: My post was in response to another post that has since been deleted. I’ll leave this as I think there needs to be clarification that in my opinion the point of the Cochran review wasn’t whether or not a mask works individually. It was looking at a broader scale. I will concede that the criticisms of this review pointed out in this thread and elsewhere are valid.

"Broad implementation" was still under 50% in the largest study used per the Cochran Review's commentary on the article.



For the anti-mandate people, what do you feel about bike helmet mandates and seat belt mandates? Should we get rid of those because... if they aren't used... they don't provide benefit? Of course the difference between bike helmets and seat belts is the person likely to be killed is the person the mandate is on... whereas mask mandates protect other people in addition to the individual.

 

[Mount Asclepius]

People need to to stop the seat belt and bike helmet comparisons. They don’t further any meaningful dialogue. Just further divide.

 

[Siggy]

People need to to stop the seat belt and bike helmet comparisons. They don’t further any meaningful dialogue. Just further divide.

Ok...
If more than 50% of restaurant workers refused to wash their hands, then handwashing on a community level would show no benefit.

Why do we restrict the freedom of restaurant workers?

Oh, wait... by furthering the divide, do you simply mean a logical response that the anti-maskers have no response to? Can we stop talking about 'mah freedom' because it doesn't further meaningful dialogue and just furthers the divide too? This entire thread was bumped over a complete misreading of a Cochrane review that basically shows "precautions don't work if people don't engage in them" and then people saying, "MASKS DON'T WORK, MY FREEDOM WAS RESTRICTED FOR NOTHING."

 

[Mount Asclepius]

It could possibly be because people don’t wear them correctly or for 100% of the time.

"Broad implementation" was still under 50% in the largest study used per the Cochran Review's commentary on the article.

Yes… that’s the point. Mandates didn’t work, either because masks don’t work (not my argument) or because people don’t wear them in an effective manner. It’s all or none - as it relates to pandemic spread of viral disease. And that doesn’t even account for the premise that you can avoid exposure to viral disease in perpetuity (my argument).

I felt like it was worth posting the Cochrane review as it’s valuable and worth knowing about. I think views are probably so entrenched after the past few years that further discussion probably isn’t beneficial.

 

[Siggy]

Yes… that’s the point. Mandates didn’t work, either because masks don’t work (not my argument) or because people don’t wear them in an effective manner. It’s all or none. And that doesn’t even account for the premise that you can avoid exposure to viral disease in perpetuity (my argument).

I felt like it was worth posting the Cochrane review as it’s valuable and worth knowing about. I think views are probably so entrenched after the past few years that further discussion probably isn’t beneficial.

So… if over 50% of restaurant workers refused to wash their hands, should we revise the public health rules to accommodate them?

 

[Mount Asclepius]

So… if over 50% of restaurant workers refused to wash their hands, should we revise the public health rules to accommodate them?

Ha, I’m not convinced over 50% of restaurant workers do wash their hands. I suppose I hope so, but who knows.

I like it when the chef tastes my food and it’s up to their satisfaction.

 

[Siggy]

Ha, I’m not convinced over 50% of restaurant workers do wash their hands. I suppose I hope so, but who knows.

I like it when the chef tastes my food and it’s up to their satisfaction.

But I’m sure you’d feel less happy if the chef double dips into your soup or didn’t wash his hands after dropping a deuce.

 

[Mount Asclepius]

But I’m sure you’d feel less happy if the chef double dips into your soup or didn’t wash his hands after dropping a deuce.

Less happy if I knew. Does the A5 wagyu and purple potato purée still taste incredible though? I might be willing to forget then.

 

[xaelia]

Less happy if I knew. Does the A5 wagyu and purple potato purée still taste incredible though? I might be willing to forget then.

 

[FutureInternist]

And don't forget to wipe down your filthy stethoscopes!

I always glove up the stethoscope as well

 

[FutureInternist]

You can pry my kid's genitals from my cold dead hands!

Wait, sorry, got confused

Found the priest… 😏

 

[FutureInternist]

Without diving into the component studies, 2 thoughts immediately jump out.

1. How many people wear the mask properly to begin with? It's not that masks don't work... it's that wearing a mask wrongly with your nose hanging out doesn't work. I don't think many people are going to suddenly say that their surgeon doesn't need to wear a mask or voluntarily and knowingly go and treat flu patients without a surgical mask.

2. What portion of the control group was wearing masks? Is this like the ProCESS trial? Early goal directed therapy doesn't work ...because standard of care now roughly falls in line with EGDT. Is this "Mask mandates don't work... because 80% of the people wear a mask in the mandate group, but 70% in areas without mandates"?

The # of people I have seen (nurses, docs) who remove their masks and then F’ing sneeze… 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

 

[FutureInternist]

People need to to stop the seat belt and bike helmet comparisons. They don’t further any meaningful dialogue. Just further divide.

Helps to point out the sub-intelligent nature of those arguing against mask mandates.

 

[thegenius]

I like it when the chef tastes my food and it’s up to their satisfaction.

How about when the chef picks his nose, rubs his buttcrack, sticks his finger in his armpit, then tastes your food?

 

[johhnybgood]

But I’m sure you’d feel less happy if the chef double dips into your soup or didn’t wash his hands after dropping a deuce.

What would you recommendation be at this point Siggy?

Masks provide benefits for the wearer and others, of that I have no doubt or argument. but if there’s a little uptake and more importantly a relatively weak variant, what is the end goal here?

 

[Siggy]

What would you recommendation be at this point Siggy?

Masks provide benefits for the wearer and others, of that I have no doubt or argument. but if there’s a little uptake and more importantly a relatively weak variant, what is the end goal here?

There’s a time and a place. During the initial strain, delta, and omicron, sure.

Currently I would agree that there’s no real indication for a mandate.

However God help us if the next respiratory pandemic has people pointing to this as a reason not to mask.

 

[Mount Asclepius]

However God help us if the next respiratory pandemic has people pointing to this as a reason not to mask.

They might.

1918. And yet 2019.

I think most would practically suspect not everyone is going to wear masks given the divergent views in this country and around the world. If there is a meta-analysis that says that if not everyone wears masks then it won’t make a difference, people will further entrench their position not to mask becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

I wish people wouldn’t eat excessively driving our obesity epidemic when people around the world starve to death. We can’t mandate a 2,000 calorie, healthy nutritious diet though despite the lives it would save, increased gains in health, and lower healthcare expenses in our country (Before I get flak for a quasi-comparison, no, I’m not saying nutrition in general, and masks during a pandemic, are the same thing. I’m just pointing out that practical-ish things that I might want aren’t going to happen).

Good news. I have it on a good source (my chef that “picks his nose, rubs his buttcrack, sticks his finger in his armpit”) that the next pandemic isn’t until 2120. We’ll be 6 feet under or dust in the wind.