Match 2011 Feedback

[eeeleeeot]

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Just had a quick question that I thought I would run by you guys before I made a total fool of myself (or my home school)....

I have recently been appointed to be the one of the mentors for the underclassman at my institution who are trying to go into ER. We are a foreign school so our access to match/residency information is sometimes less than we hoped. I was wondering if it would be OK to write an email to the institutions where I interviewed an ask them for feedback (ie where I was ranked, what I could have done better, why was I ranked at that position, do you take FMGs ever etc.) because I feel like this will give me much more information on the process and a much more realistic viewpoint when giving advice on specific programs.

I know people have received a few emails like these from various institutions, but I know that a lot of this info is confidential and might make people uncomfortable to divulge this. That is not my purpose at all, I just dont want to highly reccomend "School A" to do rotations when we only have 4 months in the states if there is no way that they would have ever taken me, or any FMGs.... or I would like to highly recommend "School A" because they take FMGs and liked me, but I never found out because I matched at a higher choice...

Make sense? Please let me know what you think, and thanks guys!

 

[eeeleeeot]

282 views and no response? can a few people possibly respond? i dont think im offending anyone with this post and i would really appreciate the advice... maybe im just being stupid, and if so please tell me!

 

[gro2001]

Just had a quick question that I thought I would run by you guys before I made a total fool of myself (or my home school)....

I have recently been appointed to be the one of the mentors for the underclassman at my institution who are trying to go into ER. We are a foreign school so our access to match/residency information is sometimes less than we hoped. I was wondering if it would be OK to write an email to the institutions where I interviewed an ask them for feedback (ie where I was ranked, what I could have done better, why was I ranked at that position, do you take FMGs ever etc.) because I feel like this will give me much more information on the process and a much more realistic viewpoint when giving advice on specific programs.

I know people have received a few emails like these from various institutions, but I know that a lot of this info is confidential and might make people uncomfortable to divulge this. That is not my purpose at all, I just dont want to highly reccomend "School A" to do rotations when we only have 4 months in the states if there is no way that they would have ever taken me, or any FMGs.... or I would like to highly recommend "School A" because they take FMGs and liked me, but I never found out because I matched at a higher choice...

Make sense? Please let me know what you think, and thanks guys!

I think no one is responding because no one really knows that kind of information and don't want to give you advice that might get you in trouble. I know that it's against the NRMP rules to ask about ranking information prior to the match. Not sure how it applies after. Even if it's technically allowed, I don't think many programs would like to disclose that kind of information. Although this is mostly speculation on my part, so if anyone has any better information, please feel free to correct me.

I think asking general questions like "do you ever take/consider FMGs?" is safe, but would give you mostly generic answers, like "we consider applications on a case-by-case basis". Either way, I don't think that this is likely to yield a lot of useful information. In general, if a program invites you for an interview, you are being considered. Anything other than that is speculative. Sure, they may in principle be open to the idea of FMGs, but if they never invite them for an interview, it's a moot point.

 

[13770]

No one will tell you where you were on their rank list. Rank lists are highly confidential and applicants are not told before or after where they were ranked.

For someone to ask after the match for "feedback" is most unusual. The majority of programs will either not respond or send you back a nice, fluffy response that states they appreciate you asking but don't give this type of information out.... as well as a general response of how nice it was to meet you, good luck, etc.

 

[alexmtr]

This is kind of obvious and of limited value, but what about looking at the current/past residents info to see there they went to med school? If you see people from non-US medical schools at least you know the program is not completely opposed to the idea....

 

[jbar]

Maybe your school should be providing access to EM faculty as mentors, rather than relying on fourth year medical students. If you want to know where to recommend people do rotations, there should be someway to find previous alumni from your school who went into EM. They can tell you where they rotated. Also EM isn't like ortho where if you don't rotate with a program, you have a low shot of getting a spot. It's not like your fellow med students are going to make a terrible mistake rotating at a big name program, even if that program doesn't take IMGs.

 

[bgokone]

Just had a quick question that I thought I would run by you guys before I made a total fool of myself (or my home school)....

I have recently been appointed to be the one of the mentors for the underclassman at my institution who are trying to go into ER. We are a foreign school so our access to match/residency information is sometimes less than we hoped. I was wondering if it would be OK to write an email to the institutions where I interviewed an ask them for feedback (ie where I was ranked, what I could have done better, why was I ranked at that position, do you take FMGs ever etc.) because I feel like this will give me much more information on the process and a much more realistic viewpoint when giving advice on specific programs.

I know people have received a few emails like these from various institutions, but I know that a lot of this info is confidential and might make people uncomfortable to divulge this. That is not my purpose at all, I just dont want to highly reccomend "School A" to do rotations when we only have 4 months in the states if there is no way that they would have ever taken me, or any FMGs.... or I would like to highly recommend "School A" because they take FMGs and liked me, but I never found out because I matched at a higher choice...

Make sense? Please let me know what you think, and thanks guys!

Go for it! See what happens. You would be doing a great service to those you've chosen to mentor. I think people make the mistake of thinking that there is ony one right way to do things.

 

[eeeleeeot]

thanks to all for responses and advice. after thinking about it more, i do agree that it is very confidential information and i doubt programs would really like to give out that information. i understand that most responses will be fluff letters anyways so there may not really be a purpose. i can gauge from most responses that this is probably not a good idea, however i think that if it could be answered honestly and truthfully it would be a big service to the people i am mentoring. most probably will not do this!

to comment on some responses:

i wish my institution did set up a mentoring program with our graduates who went into EM. i have suggested that and i hope it is a work in progress, however the school does provide us with a list of alumni who are in EM. the problem is that there is a large number of people to gather information from and sometimes it can be a bit overwhelming so they try to provide a few mentors from the class above (because we only have 60ish students per class/only 3 were placed in EM residency programs). also a good amount of our alumni who are attendings in EM are over 10 years out of residency and are at programs without residents or very far removed from the residency program. also, the people who are current residents might not have enough time to mentor, or may be too busy (just speculation). i think it would be a great idea and i guess i am trying to start this, sort of, because i will be an intern in july. i also think that EM is a pretty dynamic field over the past 5 years with regards to competitiveness, and, from what i have seen, less and less fmgs are accepted to positions in EM residency programs each year so i sort of think that the mentors either need to be fresh on the scene or somebody who is pretty involved in the residency program (either resident or attending).

also just to respond to a few others who were nice enough to comment... during this past year, i have compiled a list of programs who have taken fmgs over the past few years. however this list is slightly limited because it is only based on people i have spoken to or things that i have seen while on away rotations in the usa. on mostly every interview i asked if the programs were fmg friendly and most gave me a fluff answer, and about half of my interviews had never had an fmg resident or maybe less than 3 ever in the history of the program - so who knows....

my bottom line point was just to not sever any future potential relationships and find a way to provide better feedback for these people. i am extremely happy at the residency program where i matched, it was one of my top choices and i am ecstatic about starting. i am not attempting to fuel my ego nor do i really care about this information personally. during the past year i learned a significant amount on my own about the process and the match/interview trail/applications/away rotations for fmg's, but i did learn that you have to be pretty strategic and competitive to match as an fmg in EM. additionally, as an fmg (especially one who does not rotate in american hospitals until fourth year electives) you are provided with less information about the whole entire process, that is kind of why i would have like to have had extended feedback in relation to where i was ranked/how i performed on interviews in order to provide better guidance. and i understand that each application and each interview decision is made on a case by case basis, and just because fmg A interviewed somewhere and they ranked him high doesnt mean that the same place will like fmg B the next year, but it is better than having the little information i have now.

thanks to everyone who helped out with responses and i wish everyone a nice week. any more responses/comments are appreciated.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

If they interviewed you they obviously would have considered taking you. The best way to help those you're now mentoring is pointing out the programs that DIDN'T grant you an interview and those that did. Doesn't mean they won't get an interview, but the odds are lower so they may wish to spend their time elsewhere.

Most programs I know of don't interview anyone they don't think they'd take based on their application, including their med school obviously. Sometimes they change their mind after interviews and don't rank the applicant, but the vast majority of those interviewed are ranked somewhere.

The bottom line is that a less competitive program is more likely to take an FMG than one that is more competitive. The program I went to for instance has never taken an FMG, and probably never will. In general, programs are competitive due to reputation (Pitt, Indy, U of Cincinnatti) or location (think Western US). There are plenty of great programs out there that aren't competitive.

Edit: I take it back. My program took a Caribbean grad this year. Oh how the mighty have fallen. 🙂

 

[GoGetEM]

Where did you train?

If they interviewed you they obviously would have considered taking you. The best way to help those you're now mentoring is pointing out the programs that DIDN'T grant you an interview and those that did. Doesn't mean they won't get an interview, but the odds are lower so they may wish to spend their time elsewhere.

Most programs I know of don't interview anyone they don't think they'd take based on their application, including their med school obviously. Sometimes they change their mind after interviews and don't rank the applicant, but the vast majority of those interviewed are ranked somewhere.

The bottom line is that a less competitive program is more likely to take an FMG than one that is more competitive. The program I went to for instance has never taken an FMG, and probably never will. In general, programs are competitive due to reputation (Pitt, Indy, U of Cincinnatti) or location (think Western US). There are plenty of great programs out there that aren't competitive.

Edit: I take it back. My program took a Caribbean grad this year. Oh how the mighty have fallen. 🙂

 

[quicknss]

Although I think it is very unfair, a lot of DO's get lumped into the foreign grad pile. You can get a flavor for competitiveness by looking at the number of DO's as well.

Again, don't bite my head off -- I think it is a grave injustice against DO's who are American trained.

 

[Rendar5]

Although I think it is very unfair, a lot of DO's get lumped into the foreign grad pile. You can get a flavor for competitiveness by looking at the number of DO's as well.

Again, don't bite my head off -- I think it is a grave injustice against DO's who are American trained.

I will re-inforce the idea of looking at who they have at programs. I know that my program is very DO friendly, having a DO residency director. But I aso know that several years back my program was very reticent about adding FMG's, and now is wililng to give them somewhat equal footing in interviews since we have 3 years running of strong FMG residents (1 out of 10 per year on avg). Course, with a lot of places not as willing to interview, we end up with a cream of the crop 😉

And again, mention places that were willing to give you interviews. If a place is willing to give an interview spot to an FMG, they are willing to look at them on their merits.

 

[Faith27]

Could u please share whatever list u've made of programs that have taken FMGs in the past couple years?
I'm a US FMG and have also been lookin for places like that. Correct me if i'm wrong but I've been told a lotta EM programs in NY, like Albert Einstein at Beth Israel,etc are FMG friendly. I also know that SUNY Stonybrook has a lotta FMGs in their EM program although i cant really comment on how good the program is.

 

[pratik7]

another option is to poll the people in your class and see there they interviewed. Also see if you can get other foreign medical school's match list and see where they went.

 

[Tiger10]

Could u please share whatever list u've made of programs that have taken FMGs in the past couple years?
I'm a US FMG and have also been lookin for places like that. Correct me if i'm wrong but I've been told a lotta EM programs in NY, like Albert Einstein at Beth Israel,etc are FMG friendly. I also know that SUNY Stonybrook has a lotta FMGs in their EM program although i cant really comment on how good the program is.

SUNY Upstate

 

[Faith27]

SUNY Upstate

Thanks!!