Match rate by preferred specialty 2024

[DrProtonX]

Rad onc among the least competitive specialties… not surprising but still such a shame!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[fiji128]

The lesson learned after about 5 years of this; change absolutely nothing 👍

 

[Gfunk6]

ASTRO's response to Match data: "I think it's clear that this data shows that students need more education about Radiation Oncology. Since our efforts to do so for medical students has not shown the desired results, I am pleased to announce our kindergrarden outreach progrem."

 

[CaesarRO]

"Radiation Oncology rocks, it's the best field, anybody who wants a spot gets a spot! You get a spot, you got a spot, you got a spot!"

 

[NotMattSpraker]

The match data obsession, the changing of the field name, the weird doxxing, the rectal exam stuff.

It's getting really hard for me to admit to people I am a radiation oncologist.

 

[thesauce]

Holy God, this is bad

 

[medgator]

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Believe it or not within the past 2 week my chair may or may not have said to me something along the lines “times have never been better in our field”. I nodded and bit my tongue and walked away!

 

[DrProtonX]

I know these data has no real impact on the field, job market, etc. but it still stings when you see your specialty among one of the least competitive ones. Basically any US grad without a felony on record can match!

 

[DrProtonX]

Believe it or not within the past 2 week my chair may or may not have said to me something along the lines “times have never been better in our field”. I nodded and bit my tongue and walked away!

Should’ve sent him/her to ED for signs of confusion!

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I know these data has no real impact on the field, job market, etc. but it still stings when you see your specialty among one of the least competitive ones. Basically any US grad without a felony on record can match!

You’ve said you’re a resident. Did you not know this when you applied? The field has been a burning dumpster of fecal matter for the past 5-6 years, even longer depending on your point of reference. See “bloodbath” thread.

 

[DrProtonX]

You’ve said you’re a resident. Did you not know this when you applied? The field has been a burning dumpster of fecal matter for the past 5-6 years, even longer depending on your point of reference. See “bloodbath” thread.

Oh I definitely did know. It still stings though. I totally know it’s just a ego thing and has no real relevance!

 

[medgator]

Oh I definitely did know. It still stings though. I totally know it’s just a ego thing and has no real relevance!

It'll have relevance when you start looking for a job

 

[thesauce]

Believe it or not within the past 2 week my chair may or may not have said to me something along the lines “times have never been better in our field”. I nodded and bit my tongue and walked away!

For him, yes

 

[NotMattSpraker]

It'll have relevance when you start looking for a job

We're in to a new season. Anyone have a feel for how it is this year? More of the same?

 

[RSAOaky]

We're in to a new season. Anyone have a feel for how it is this year? More of the same?

Not sure how competitive it is, but there is also a big concern that this is the last year before graduating resident quality drops off a cliff.

 

[Pointless]

The match data obsession, the changing of the field name, the weird doxxing, the rectal exam stuff.

It's getting really hard for me to admit to people I am a radiation oncologist.

What did I miss???

 

[DrProtonX]

What did I miss???

I think it refers to this

x.com

x.com

 

[yesmaster]

Interesting perspectives on butt stuff in Red Journal and twitter

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Not sure how competitive it is, but there is also a big concern that this is the last year before graduating resident quality drops off a cliff.

The PD/APDs will tell you they are not worried about this and that the people they have taken and in some cases SOAPed are doing fine. Time will tell if the quality truly drops. They definitely will not have the scores etc that people 2015 and before had to have.

 

[DrProtonX]

Not sure how competitive it is, but there is also a big concern that this is the last year before graduating resident quality drops off a cliff.

If by quality you solely mean ‘step score’ then yeah but there’s zero evidence showing any correlation between the step score and how good of a physician residents become when they start practicing.

 

[randomname2018]

Oh I definitely did know. It still stings though. I totally know it’s just a ego thing and has no real relevance!

It will have relevance. The "quality" of your application will be judged significantly more than it had in the past. Your training program will matter much more than it had previously. Your ability to enter the remaining private practices will be much more difficult. Even in reasonably good hiring seasons, it was not easy. It will be harder now.

Unfortunately, this is out of your hands. It is what it is. Programs and PDs have not self-corrected. Leadership has not self-corrected. If the trend of this data is any suggestion, they won't.

 

[thesauce]

If by quality you solely mean ‘step score’ then yeah but there’s zero evidence showing any correlation between the step score and how good of a physician residents become when they start practicing.

In the absence of such data, I would certainly favor the higher score to be a better doc. Knowing full well that I may be wrong and there are outliers.

 

[drowsy12]

The PD/APDs will tell you they are not worried about this and that the people they have taken and in some cases SOAPed are doing fine. Time will tell if the quality truly drops. They definitely will not have the scores etc that people 2015 and before had to have.

I think it’s funny that you or anyone else would think they’re a better rad onc. It defies everything we know about how this stuff actually works.

By that definition I guess a ‘lower program tier’ grad is not as good of a doc as an MDACC grad. I guess I should start telling patients not to see rad oncs from SUNY UPstate or BCM or Columbia or insert lower tier program here.

Be ****ing for real

People love getting high on their own supply

 

[medgator]

If by quality you solely mean ‘step score’ then yeah but there’s zero evidence showing any correlation between the step score and how good of a physician residents become when they start practicing.

I think it’s funny that you or anyone else would think they’re a better rad onc. It defies everything we know about how this stuff actually works.

By that definition I guess a ‘lower program tier’ grad is not as good of a doc as an MDACC grad

Be ****ing for real

People love getting high on their own supply

Say what you will, but I'd trust a rad onc who trained from 2003-2018 over one that trained in the 1970s, 1990s or in 2025+ esp if their step scores are suspect or they had to retake etc

Opinions may be like a-holes but some opinions carry more weight even if the bouquet 💐 is more stank.

 

[drowsy12]

Say what you will, but I'd trust a rad onc who trained from 2003-2018 over one that trained in the 1970s, 1990s or in 2025+.

Opinions may be like dinguses but some opinions matter more than others

Good thing no one actually cares about stuff like this in real life, and if you think you care now, you won’t later.

 

[RickyScott]

If by quality you solely mean ‘step score’ then yeah but there’s zero evidence showing any correlation between the step score and how good of a physician residents become when they start practicing.

I would be surprised if there is 0 correlation. It is highly likely that the bottom 1%(above passing) are worse doctors than the 99% for a variety of reasons- lack of intelligence, lack of commitment , psychosocial issues etc.
You may have a point that an average score vs a high score does not correlate with better doctoring, but unfotuantely for radonc, there is a sizeable contingent of bottom dwellers- last in their class types. Every med school class has one or 2 that shouldn’t be there, but can look forward to matching in radonc.

 

[DrProtonX]

I would be surprised if there is 0 correlation. It is highly likely that the bottom 1%(above passing) are worse doctors than the 99% for a variety of reasons- lack of intelligence, lack of commitment , psychosocial issues etc.
You may have a point that an average score vs a high score does not correlate with better doctoring, but unfotuantely for radonc, there is a sizeable contingent of bottom dwellers- last in their class types. Every med school class has one or 2 that shouldn’t be there, but can look forward to matching in radonc.

I think you’re understimating how self selective rad onc is. You typical med student doesn’t want to study physics and those who do aren’t typically the last in their class type. Also here’s the data of for this year’s match, only 9 applicants with step 2 score below 230 matched. I also added the data for 2014 match (step 1 score), you can see the distribution isn’t much different

 

[yesmaster]

Next time my practice hires, I will look for excellence, work ethic, and rizz.

Residency completion 2005-2020 is good, AOA, pedigree, no training gaps, references, those are all positives too.

I’m not a big believer that, a’priori, everyone gets a cookie. If you have more applicants than jobs, then selectivity is by definition at play. That’s been my reality as well.

Cookies a’plenty in other specialties however.

 

[IonsAreOurFuture]

Wow, flooding and fire at the same time. That dumpster is really having a bad day.

Maybe the flood will put the fire out? Problem solved!

 

[RickyScott]

Next time my practice hires, I will look for excellence, work ethic, and rizz.

Residency completion 2005-2020 is good, AOA, pedigree, no training gaps, references, those are all positives too.

I’m not a big believer that, a’priori, everyone gets a cookie. If you have more applicants than jobs, then selectivity is by definition at play. That’s been my reality as well.

Cookies a’plenty in other specialties however.

A good reference by someone I know well would be far and away most important.

 

[NotMattSpraker]

A good reference by someone I know well would be far and away most important.

This is why the job market is perpetually siiiick. If you feel like it's not, you just have to network, kid.

 

[metallica81788]

A good reference by someone I know well would be far and away most important.

This has been and will continue to be the best way to get "good" jobs beyond the "elite" program internal networks (which are essentially a smaller version of the same thing)

How many people with "good" jobs do we all know that obtained them any other way than being a known quantity? I interviewed for some pretty high quality jobs (at least I considered them so but the coastal/big city people wouldn't sniff them) but best ones - the two I've taken and the one I declined - were from knowing someone. And I knew nobody.

 

[RSAOaky]

If by quality you solely mean ‘step score’ then yeah but there’s zero evidence showing any correlation between the step score and how good of a physician residents become when they start practicing.

I agree that there is no correlation. However, I have also seen the quality of residents being produced by our mid tier academic program and there has been a noticeable drop off.

 

[DireMoose]

I agree that there is no correlation. However, I have also seen the quality of residents being produced by our mid tier academic program and there has been a noticeable drop off.

This. Our practice also has seen a range of residents come through from top, middle, and bottom tier programs. The cream of the crop is still very good. The bench isn’t nearly as deep as those who matched 2018 and prior. But the lower tier is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It isn’t just the step scores. Everyone knows you can be a good doc without a 260/AOA/PhD. It’s the social skills and internal drive that I’ve seen huge differences in. 2018ish and prior - a huge percentage of RadOnc applicants were top of their class, had some leadership roles, and were the ones who mostly were trying hard. The top tier is generally still like this (though admittedly not nearly as deep as 5-10years ago).
What I’m seeing today in lower tier programs is you’re getting a much higher rate of residents who come in and are just lazy for lack of better description. Roll in and have not prepared for clinic, don’t know what their attending is doing that day, etc.

So if I’m hiring at a private practice in 2028, better believe I’m putting a lot of weight on where someone trained. I don’t have time to go through 105 applications. The residency programs have already selected harder workers for the top tiers. Again, that difference may not have been as wide in years past. It seems glaring now.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

This. Our practice also has seen a range of residents come through from top, middle, and bottom tier programs. The cream of the crop is still very good. The bench isn’t nearly as deep as those who matched 2018 and prior. But the lower tier is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It isn’t just the step scores. Everyone knows you can be a good doc without a 260/AOA/PhD. It’s the social skills and internal drive that I’ve seen huge differences in. 2018ish and prior - a huge percentage of RadOnc applicants were top of their class, had some leadership roles, and were the ones who mostly were trying hard. The top tier is generally still like this (though admittedly not nearly as deep as 5-10years ago).
What I’m seeing today in lower tier programs is you’re getting a much higher rate of residents who come in and are just lazy for lack of better description. Roll in and have not prepared for clinic, don’t know what their attending is doing that day, etc.

So if I’m hiring at a private practice in 2028, better believe I’m putting a lot of weight on where someone trained. I don’t have time to go through 105 applications. The residency programs have already selected harder workers for the top tiers. Again, that difference may not have been as wide in years past. It seems glaring now.

Seems like when you matched will become increasingly important