Match results by Program Interpretation

[AnonymousD.O.]

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http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Education/students/match-program/Pages/match-results.aspx

I wanted to create a thread specifically concerning the by institution match results. I feel like its important because someday everybody has to apply to programs and assess which ones are more competitive than others and factor this into our rank. Here is my question. I would assume that when you look at a program, the ones that are more competitive have no spots left, whereas those that are full are more competitive sites.

But all throughout this list there are examples of where good programs have a spot or two left. Take Geisinger Medical Center for instance. Its not Harvard or something, but a very good IM program nonetheless at a large institution. It says that have 1 spot left open for IM. Seriously?

What kind of factors go into this. Did Geisinger simply not find a 7 th person they wanted to take on? Did they decide to drop a spot?

 

[JRO38]

.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Please also remember that generally speaking, the most competitive applicants didnt participate in this match

 

[SnowDoggy44]

Please also remember that generally speaking, the most competitive applicants didnt participate in this match

Are you implying that while the program's rank list may have initially been quite long, many of its top candidates made themselves unavailable by withdrawing from the NMS, thus decreasing the potential to fill all match slots? I guess I didn't see how your point directly related to programs having multiple unmatched positions.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Please also remember that generally speaking, the most competitive applicants didnt participate in this match

Haha truth

But ya @SnowDoggy44 I don't see what it has to do with my question haha. I don't think the AOA programs will be waiting around for the ACGME match

 

[FutureDO2016]

I don't get it when they say only 75% match...do the other 25% scramble or apply ACGME? Isn't the 2,000 other DO 4th years applying to allopathic residencies separate from this category? Based on AOA:

"On Feb. 9, 1,997 DO students successfully matched to osteopathic residencies. Of the 2,907 students who participated in the Osteopathic Match, 75% successfully matched for a total of 2,179 placements."

 

[hallowmann]

I don't get it when they say only 75% match...do the other 25% scramble or apply ACGME? Isn't the 2,000 other DO 4th years applying to allopathic residencies separate from this category? Based on AOA:

"On Feb. 9, 1,997 DO students successfully matched to osteopathic residencies. Of the 2,907 students who participated in the Osteopathic Match, 75% successfully matched for a total of 2,179 placements."

Some are using ACGME as backup and some are scrambling.

 

[Orthojoe]

Please also remember that generally speaking, the most competitive applicants didnt participate in this match

Disagree with this statement.. pretty bold to say "generally speaking" AOA match applicants are inferior to ACGME match.. I would agree if you stated that in general AOA residencies are inferior.. but not applicants.

 

[FutureDO2016]

Yeah because some of these AOA applicants have applied and matched to competitive residencies: anesthesiology, radiology, ophthalmology, urology, dermatology, Otolaryngology...most of these candidates are extremely bright with 600+ Comlex scores and stellar grades

I still don't get what happens to the 25% that didn't match AOA...I get some scrambled but what if they applied to allopathic residencies and didn't match that either OR they didn't apply to any allopathic programs?

 

[Orthojoe]

Determining the quality of residency, as stated above is very multifactorial and difficult to say the least. Traditionally, competitiveness and fellowship match rates have been markers.. however I feel these are inferior. There are many programs very difficult to match into, but I would never consider due to the quality of physicians coming out of the programs. I think one of the best measures is by the alumni. I got in touch with many of the alumni of programs I was interested in and basically interviewed them, looked at online reviews, their publications, who actually employed them, etc. During interviews spending as much time with the residents is key as well. Attend all the social events and interview events.. spend your time asking questions to the residents.

One thing to be cautious about is match rate and unmatched spots - like JRO38 posted. For example in 2014 a very competitive and solid orthopedic program had one unmatched spot.. this was due to a ranking error. They were too selective and not enough applicants ranked them since they felt they didnt have a shot. Thus they were unmatched.

Another example- in 2013 a very competitive,prestigious ortho sports med fellowship known for producing quality sports docs went unmatched due to a lower amount of total pooled applicants and the match algorithm. They ended up filling with an unmatched fellow who scrambled into it. It happens.

So I wouldnt put much credence into the match rate unless there is a pattern of unmatched spots over a pooled amount of years.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Disagree with this statement.. pretty bold to say "generally speaking" AOA match applicants are inferior to ACGME match.. I would agree if you stated that in general AOA residencies are inferior.. but not applicants.

Yes I agree. I didnt say they are inferior.

I said, and I still say, that the most competitive applicants dont participate in the AOA match.

 

[hallowmann]

...I still don't get what happens to the 25% that didn't match AOA...I get some scrambled but what if they applied to allopathic residencies and didn't match that either OR they didn't apply to any allopathic programs?

Obviously if they didn't apply ACGME they'd scramble into one of the 900-some unfilled AOA spots.

If they don't match in the ACGME match, they'll scramble into the 500-600 AOA spots still open by then or they'll do research or something else until the next match when they can apply more broadly.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

Obviously if they didn't apply ACGME they'd scramble into one of the 900-some unfilled AOA spots.

If they don't match in the ACGME match, they'll scramble into the 500-600 AOA spots still open by then or they'll do research or something else until the next match when they can apply more broadly.

They can also SOAP in the ACGME match. Potentially you have 4 chances to match as a DO. I consider this to be a really good thing for 2 populations: people with poor applications, and people applying for 2 separate specialties (super competitive for AOA and not as competitive for ACGME).

 

[FutureDO2016]

Oh that clarifies things, thanks

 

[FutureDO2016]

Since there are hundreds of unfilled spots after the AOA match, is someone with poor grades or board scores still likely to be accepted via scrambling into a weak program? Or can all the programs that have unfilled spots still reject you and be vacant rather than take a weaker applicant? Basically, hundreds of programs rather lose funding and be unfilled then take a weaker student?

 

[hallowmann]

Since there are hundreds of unfilled spots after the AOA match, is someone with poor grades or board scores still likely to be accepted via scrambling into a weak program? Or can all the programs that have unfilled spots still reject you and be vacant rather than take a weaker applicant? Basically, hundreds of programs rather lose funding and be unfilled then take a weaker student?

A program will not rather lose funding than take a weaker applicant (unless maybe they foresee the applicant causing them problems - more social/personality issues than stats). A program might hold out and see if they can get a stronger applicant, but not if that looks unlikely. Them losing funding doesn't just mean they lose the resident, but they also lose the $100k extra (on top of the resident's salary) that gets paid to the hospital.

They can also SOAP in the ACGME match. Potentially you have 4 chances to match as a DO. I consider this to be a really good thing for 2 populations: people with poor applications, and people applying for 2 separate specialties (super competitive for AOA and not as competitive for ACGME).

This is true. That said, the number of the DOs that SOAP is usually pretty small.

 

[FutureDO2016]

Since there are hundreds of unfilled spots after the AOA match, is someone with poor grades or board scores still likely to be accepted via scrambling into a weak program? Or can all the programs that have unfilled spots still reject you and be vacant rather than take a weaker applicant? Basically, hundreds of programs rather lose funding and be unfilled then take a weaker student?

But isn't that what happens every year? Hundreds of AOA positions go unfilled...I'm sure that will change in a few years with increasing class sizes and new schools leading to more graduates and stagnant amount of programs/very few new positions...but don't many positions go unfilled...I guess we wait to see the final AOA match stats after people scrambled this week.

 

[hallowmann]

But isn't that what happens every year? Hundreds of AOA positions go unfilled...I'm sure that will change in a few years with increasing class sizes and new schools leading to more graduates and stagnant amount of programs/very few new positions...but don't many positions go unfilled...I guess we wait to see the final AOA match stats after people scrambled this week.

By the time programs start (June/July) there are only ~50 unfilled PGY1 positions available (after all the scrambling). You can't expect all spots to fill but most eventually do. If you try to scramble early, i.e. immediately after the AOA match, your chances of Lansing a program, even with weaker stats is still high.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

This is true. That said, the number of the DOs that SOAP is usually pretty small.

I wouldn't say it's "small". 752 DO's in SOAP, 113 took positions last year. I'd say it's pretty sizable. And this isn't even the DO's last chance to find a spot, really, since TRI's some Fam med, and some other scattered spots will remain open far after the AOA scramble. USMD's SOAP better than DO's, but we are 2nd best group, above Previous USMD's (reapplying), and way above both US- and non-US IMG's.

 

[hallowmann]

I wouldn't say it's "small". 752 DO's in SOAP, 113 took positions last year. I'd say it's pretty sizable. And this isn't even the DO's last chance to find a spot, really, since TRI's some Fam med, and some other scattered spots will remain open far after the AOA scramble. USMD's SOAP better than DO's, but we are 2nd best group, above Previous USMD's (reapplying), and way above both US- and non-US IMG's.

That's 15% of those who don't match. Last year it was ~90 people (~10%). I guess it depends on your definition of small/sizable.

Also, as far as the IMG issue: to put it into perspective more DOs SOAPed than US-IMGs despite the US-IMG population (i.e. those eligible for the SOAP) being > 4 times the DO population for the SOAP.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

That's 15% of those who don't match. Last year it was ~90 people (~10%). I guess it depends on your definition of small/sizable.

Also, as far as the IMG issue: to put it into perspective more DOs SOAPed than US-IMGs despite the US-IMG population (i.e. those eligible for the SOAP) being > 4 times the DO population for the SOAP.

Well exactly. In context, it's not a small percentage because you're already kinda scraping the bottom of the choices barrel by the time you get to SOAP. BTW, 2012 it was 15% again. At 15%, I'd say it's a reasonable possibility for DO's to SOAP.