Matching into orthopedics

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slaveofthehealer

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I am an MS1 at an osteopathic medical school and I am interested in orthopedics. I wanted to know how difficult it is to match ortho as a DO. Also what is required to match ortho. I know research is important but should it be orthopedic related research or can it be bench research in a non-ortho science field. What about leadership, community service experience. Also my school doesn't have an in-house orthopedics program so how should I get into research.

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I am an MS1 at an osteopathic medical school and I am interested in orthopedics. I wanted to know how difficult it is to match ortho as a DO. Also what is required to match ortho. I know research is important but should it be orthopedic related research or can it be bench research in a non-ortho science field. What about leadership, community service experience. Also my school doesn't have an in-house orthopedics program so how should I get into research.
Its super competitive so extremely difficult. Its attainable as a DO if you work hard and are open to historically DO programs. Matching university/traditionally MD ortho programs is extraordinarily difficult as a DO. Start setting up research now for this coming summer. You need a mentor and need to start research asap from what I know. You need it all-high board scores (650+ COMLEX/250+ Step 1), great letters, research. @OrthoTraumaMD is who you want to talk to about this sort of thing
 
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Take the military HPSP, work hard to score 350+ on your PT score as a future CPT America, and volunteer for leadership roles during your officer training in the summer bet Yr 1 and Yr 2.

Score at least average on your USMLEs, and the ortho spot is yours. I jest you not.
 
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Its super competitive so extremely difficult. Its attainable as a DO if you work hard and are open to historically DO programs. Matching university/traditionally MD ortho programs is extraordinarily difficult as a DO. Start setting up research now for this coming summer. You need a mentor and need to start research asap from what I know. You need it all-high board scores (650+ COMLEX/250+ Step 1), great letters, research. @OrthoTraumaMD is who you want to talk to about this sort of thing

How can I set up research for the summer and find a mentor?
 
You need to find the closest DO ortho program to your school and network your butt off, that's where you need to do research and find a mentor. You need to work every day towards the goal of ortho. 250/700 never hurts, I would say without a direct line to a program then you need at least 240/600 as a baseline. Scores aren't everything in the DO ortho world, there are a lot of mid 500s residents out there who busted their ass from day 1 of med school to network with their local programs and get plugged into the DO ortho world, but it's a lot easier to talk about doing that than it is to actually do it.

@DNC127 can give better and more specific advice.
 
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You need to find the closest DO ortho program to your school and network your butt off, that's where you need to do research and find a mentor. You need to work every day towards the goal of ortho. 250/700 never hurts, I would say without a direct line to a program then you need at least 240/600 as a baseline. Scores aren't everything in the DO ortho world, there are a lot of mid 500s residents out there who busted their ass from day 1 of med school to network with their local programs and get plugged into the DO ortho world, but it's a lot easier to talk about doing that than it is to actually do it.

@DNC127 can give better and more specific advice.
Is there a list of previously AOA ortho residencies that were ACGME accredited. And DO friendly ortho residency programs.
 
Is there a list of previously AOA ortho residencies that were ACGME accredited. And DO friendly ortho residency programs.

There are no DO friendly MD ortho programs. There are a handful of programs that will consider a qualified DO but I wouldn't call them friendly.

You can find a list of programs on the ACGME webiste, go to the link "programs that applied for accreditation under the single accreditation system" and run the report for ortho. There are 35 former DO programs that made the merger.
 
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There are no DO friendly MD ortho programs. There are a handful of programs that will consider a qualified DO but I wouldn't call them friendly.

You can find a list of programs on the ACGME webiste, go to the link "programs that applied for accreditation under the single accreditation system" and run the report for ortho. There are 35 former DO programs that made the merger.

Thanks for this man. This is a good way to look at old DO programs. Should I be worried if one of my top choices to apply to shows "initial accreditation with warning"?

Edit: is there anyway to figure out why they were issued a warning?
 
How can I set up research for the summer and find a mentor?

Easier said than done... but you should really first try to reach out to nearby academic centers and see if you can get in touch with the residency program coordinator and see if they can get you in touch with people at the program to do research with. Likely, you will be ignored at this point, but it's the best initial attempt you can make.

You can also try and see if programs are offering summer research fellowships and apply to those.
 
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Research is less important than Facetime. Although everything matters for the whole picture. I’m a current TY that didn’t match ortho the first time around but very confident I’ll match this time and the difference was that this time I went to every fracture conference for 5 months to one program. So if you can start going to conference once a week as a third year Med student that will be huge. That in addition to doing well on your auditions is the biggest thing you can do for yourself other than having great board scores and class rank.
 
Research is less important than Facetime. Although everything matters for the whole picture. I’m a current TY that didn’t match ortho the first time around but very confident I’ll match this time and the difference was that this time I went to every fracture conference for 5 months to one program. So if you can start going to conference once a week as a third year Med student that will be huge. That in addition to doing well on your auditions is the biggest thing you can do for yourself other than having great board scores and class rank.

Is this advice only for Ortho? Or would you say it's equally beneficial if i wanted to go into like Cardiology/GI which are IM subspecialties? Or anesthesia/EM which are moderately competitive?
 
Is this advice only for Ortho? Or would you say it's equally beneficial if i wanted to go into like Cardiology/GI which are IM subspecialties? Or anesthesia/EM which are moderately competitive?

Ortho is just a different beast. DOs have a great chance of matching MD IM or EM. DOs have a 33% chance of matching DO orthopedics. 300+ people apply every year for 85-90 spots. Less than a handful of DOs match MD ortho every year.

Just crush boards and have great auditions for other less competitive specialties. Ortho, you have to be a stud on paper and really need people to know and like you before your interview even happens.
 
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Research is less important than Facetime. Although everything matters for the whole picture. I’m a current TY that didn’t match ortho the first time around but very confident I’ll match this time and the difference was that this time I went to every fracture conference for 5 months to one program. So if you can start going to conference once a week as a third year Med student that will be huge. That in addition to doing well on your auditions is the biggest thing you can do for yourself other than having great board scores and class rank.

Can you expound on how you leveraged this to make connections?
 
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Can you expound on how you leveraged this to make connections?
My TY is 90 minutes away from an ortho program. I drive every Friday. I take extra shifts or use time off to go. Students in my position would just need to ask their attending.
 
My TY is 90 minutes away from an ortho program. I drive every Friday. I take extra shifts or use time off to go. Students in my position would just need to ask their attending.

But I mean, what did you actually do when you were there to ingratiate yourself with the program? Just showing up consistently is enough?
 
But I mean, what did you actually do when you were there to ingratiate yourself with the program? Just showing up consistently is enough?
Yeah they have students all the time. I knew one person in the program, but if you didn’t know anyone then you could get one of their emails. Find out when and where they meet and just keep going.
 
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But I mean, what did you actually do when you were there to ingratiate yourself with the program? Just showing up consistently is enough?

Yep. Show up and pay attention to how they do things. Eventually people will want to get to know you. Make sure you pay attention to how the residents read images and methodically approach different cases and start to learn some very basic fracture patterns, because if you come enough they may start to ask you to read basic images (in my experience almost always intertrochs or femoral neck fx’s).
 
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Yep. Show up and pay attention to how they do things. Eventually people will want to get to know you. Make sure you pay attention to how the residents read images and methodically approach different cases and start to learn some very basic fracture patterns, because if you come enough they may start to ask you to read basic images (in my experience almost always intertrochs or femoral neck fx’s).

Are you joining the ortho bro squad?
 
Take the military HPSP, work hard to score 350+ on your PT score as a future CPT America, and volunteer for leadership roles during your officer training in the summer bet Yr 1 and Yr 2.

Score at least average on your USMLEs, and the ortho spot is yours. I jest you not.
Is this true?
 
Here goes nothing, I have the day off grab a cold one lol. This is directed at OP and just general info I have told multiple students in conversations so I might as well post it. Yes, I had nothing better to do today than to write this.

*There are certainly more people knowledgable than me*, but I will give my 2 cents as a dumb 4th year in the grind currently. My opinions are from what I have noticed on the trail this year, and from going to fracture conference and didactics with my home program since very early in my first year and watching and networking with different applicants over the last 4 years.

So basically the best odds to get an ortho spot as a DO isn't scores, or research it is networking and being likable. However, this applies mostly to your odds at 1 program in which you can expound your efforts before 4th year.

If you have a program and bust your balls going to fracture conference and such it will be noticed, and eventually they will want to get to know you. Once they do, if you keep those relationships going you will not only have a pretty good chance of matching there but will also have amazing mentorship and knowledge that will help you on all your other auditions. However, the caveat is you have to be likeable or this doesn't apply as much. As said above, showing up consistently, shutting up, listening, and showing growth is VERY important and can make you highly desirable by a program before 4th year and auditions even start.

The next best way is to have a killer app (duh) but what does this mean? In my experience over talking to people the last few years and then now in the application cycle it seems people with 250+ or 700+ and good letters/ ortho stuff on their CV get the cheese. What I mean is, overall your best odds of getting interviews and matching are at the places you rotate, but people with the above get a good amount of other opportunities as well because of their app.

In regards to both showing up and getting a killer app, none of that matters if you aren't a likeable person and a hard worker. You would be surprised at how many students on the audition trail are rude to fellow students / junior residents / nursing and who noticeably work less hard than those around them. Its noticed by students, and residents, and everyone in between. I had multiple rotations where the residents would put the rude/lazy dude on blast in front of everyone. Don't be that guy. I can't believe this is advice that needs to be given, but I saw first hand that it does.

I have noticed the applicants over the last few years (I know a lot of people through my services on national ortho boards and through mad networking) can be broken into 4 categories:

1. People who only get 1-2 interviews, despite rotating at 5 or so programs. (Usually due to a weaker app + possibly not fitting in as well with ortho)
2. People who get interviews at most of the places they rotate but no non-rotator interviews (usually average scores, but still a good rotator)
3. People who get interviews at most of the places they rotate and 1-2 non rotator interviews (usually above average scores to really high scores but no other *sauce* on the CV, good rotator)
4. People who get interviews at most of the places they rotate and 3+ non-rotator interviews (usually the people with very high scores, or something highly unique on their app that is very impressive)

Obviously more interviews = better chance of matching. I think the stat used to be 5 interviews for DO in DO ortho = match. This is certainly changing and will trend higher is my guess. Because most people can only do 4-5 auditions, that means you HAVE to get an interview at all of your auditions and a couple of non-rotator interviews to feel "cozy" (not that anyone applying ortho feels cozy)

Getting into category 4 is really tough, and you need to be very well rounded. I know people with 260's and 800's still in category 3 because thats all they had. No good ortho letters or extra ortho sauce on the CV. Then there are other people with low board scores for ortho who are in category 4 because their app is basically all sauce and no scores lol. So, boards are very important but not everything and an extremely strong or unusual app can make up for board score deficiencies. From my experience, it seems the people in group 4 gobble up most of the non-rotator interviews and you see the same group of people at all of the interviews as non-rotators.

Because of the above, choosing your auditions is very important. If you have 5 interviews, but they are all at places that rotate 50+ people and invite non-rotators the odds aren't great. If you have 2-3 interviews at places that rotate 15 people for 2 spots your odds are pretty good at those places. So, you need to pick auditions carefully. I would recommend 1 reach, and the rest safe picks (places that don't rotate a lot of people and require a rotation to interview). If you are dead set on ortho the goal should be to match, because any ortho match is prestigious imo despite what SDN says.

As far as MD ortho goes, you need to have great letters and research etc. to even get a look and even then is not going to go great. I know plenty of people in the 250's who applied to 100+ programs and got 1-2 MD interviews at community places that aren't any different from DO. I know of one person with around 10 MD interviews, but they skipped rotating at DO places and did 6 MD auditions at places that give interviews to all rotators in addition to a ridiculous app + diversity. The other thing is the "DO friendly" places that have taken DOs in the past got FLOODED with DOs this year. 8+ people rotating at mayo, 5 at LSU etc. So, we may have a DO match there this year, but I think the DO flood at these places will hurt all DOs. So if you rotate MD, think outside the box.

I would only plan on DO for ortho though if you wanna maximize chances unless you have a killer app. Even then, risky.

As far as research goes, it can be a really big boost to your app and if you can get good research you need to do it. Problem is, most DO schools do not have this opportunity. I HIGHLY recommend a research year for ortho in the coming years. With DO school expansion, DO ortho is going to be an absolute blood bath. Even more so than it is now. The other underrated aspect about research is that if you do a good job, you create lasting relationships which will result in good letters and people to make calls for you and help you match. With so many more DOs graduating (which means a lot more people with high board scores) research will allow you to set yourself apart in regards to CV, letters, and calls in an increasingly competitive field. Also, doing a research year means you can focus on boards and crush them, and then focus on research without responsibilities at school.


Summary: Score as high as you can, put as much sauce on your CV as you can, get as good of letters as you can, and rotate at high yield places is the recipe for matching DO ortho.


Also: Bold prediction, this year we will have double digit DOs matching to "MD" residencies. You heard it here first. I know of enough DOs with a couple MD interview invites that we are bound to have a handful them match at those places (one place I interviewed at had like 5 DOs interviewing that day), if we don't have more this year than in the past take it as a sign that MD ortho is completely off limits not just a huge reach like it is considered now.
 
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Is this true?

There's an ortho PD in the military forum. Why don't you post your question there? As a veteran who knows a little bit about military medicine, I kid you not.

In the military, you have to meet the academic baseline for xxx subspecialty. The differentiating factors are the soldiers components aka PT score and leaderships (voted Captain on your summer training).

Of course, you would also need to rotate at your targeted sites and be a likable person.
 
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Here goes nothing, I have the day off grab a cold one lol. This is directed at OP and just general info I have told multiple students in conversations so I might as well post it. Yes, I had nothing better to do today than to write this.

*There are certainly more people knowledgable than me*, but I will give my 2 cents as a dumb 4th year in the grind currently. My opinions are from what I have noticed on the trail this year, and from going to fracture conference and didactics with my home program since very early in my first year and watching and networking with different applicants over the last 4 years.

So basically the best odds to get an ortho spot as a DO isn't scores, or research it is networking and being likable. However, this applies mostly to your odds at 1 program in which you can expound your efforts before 4th year.

If you have a program and bust your balls going to fracture conference and such it will be noticed, and eventually they will want to get to know you. Once they do, if you keep those relationships going you will not only have a pretty good chance of matching there but will also have amazing mentorship and knowledge that will help you on all your other auditions. However, the caveat is you have to be likeable or this doesn't apply as much. As said above, showing up consistently, shutting up, listening, and showing growth is VERY important and can make you highly desirable by a program before 4th year and auditions even start.

The next best way is to have a killer app (duh) but what does this mean? In my experience over talking to people the last few years and then now in the application cycle it seems people with 250+ or 700+ and good letters/ ortho stuff on their CV get the cheese. What I mean is, overall your best odds of getting interviews and matching are at the places you rotate, but people with the above get a good amount of other opportunities as well because of their app.

In regards to both showing up and getting a killer app, none of that matters if you aren't a likeable person and a hard worker. You would be surprised at how many students on the audition trail are rude to fellow students / junior residents / nursing and who noticeably work less hard than those around them. Its noticed by students, and residents, and everyone in between. I had multiple rotations where the residents would put the rude/lazy dude on blast in front of everyone. Don't be that guy. I can't believe this is advice that needs to be given, but I saw first hand that it does.

I have noticed the applicants over the last few years (I know a lot of people through my services on national ortho boards and through mad networking) can be broken into 4 categories:

1. People who only get 1-2 interviews, despite rotating at 5 or so programs. (Usually due to a weaker app + possibly not fitting in as well with ortho)
2. People who get interviews at most of the places they rotate but no non-rotator interviews (usually average scores, but still a good rotator)
3. People who get interviews at most of the places they rotate and 1-2 non rotator interviews (usually above average scores to really high scores but no other *sauce* on the CV, good rotator)
4. People who get interviews at most of the places they rotate and 3+ non-rotator interviews (usually the people with very high scores, or something highly unique on their app that is very impressive)

Obviously more interviews = better chance of matching. I think the stat used to be 5 interviews for DO in DO ortho = match. This is certainly changing and will trend higher is my guess. Because most people can only do 4-5 auditions, that means you HAVE to get an interview at all of your auditions and a couple of non-rotator interviews to feel "cozy" (not that anyone applying ortho feels cozy)

Getting into category 4 is really tough, and you need to be very well rounded. I know people with 260's and 800's still in category 3 because thats all they had. No good ortho letters or extra ortho sauce on the CV. Then there are other people with low board scores for ortho who are in category 4 because their app is basically all sauce and no scores lol. So, boards are very important but not everything and an extremely strong or unusual app can make up for board score deficiencies. From my experience, it seems the people in group 4 gobble up most of the non-rotator interviews and you see the same group of people at all of the interviews as non-rotators.

Because of the above, choosing your auditions is very important. If you have 5 interviews, but they are all at places that rotate 50+ people and invite non-rotators the odds aren't great. If you have 2-3 interviews at places that rotate 15 people for 2 spots your odds are pretty good at those places. So, you need to pick auditions carefully. I would recommend 1 reach, and the rest safe picks (places that don't rotate a lot of people and require a rotation to interview). If you are dead set on ortho the goal should be to match, because any ortho match is prestigious imo despite what SDN says.

As far as MD ortho goes, you need to have great letters and research etc. to even get a look and even then is not going to go great. I know plenty of people in the 250's who applied to 100+ programs and got 1-2 MD interviews at community places that aren't any different from DO. I know of one person with around 10 MD interviews, but they skipped rotating at DO places and did 6 MD auditions at places that give interviews to all rotators in addition to a ridiculous app + diversity. The other thing is the "DO friendly" places that have taken DOs in the past got FLOODED with DOs this year. 8+ people rotating at mayo, 5 at LSU etc. So, we may have a DO match there this year, but I think the DO flood at these places will hurt all DOs. So if you rotate MD, think outside the box.

I would only plan on DO for ortho though if you wanna maximize chances unless you have a killer app. Even then, risky.

As far as research goes, it can be a really big boost to your app and if you can get good research you need to do it. Problem is, most DO schools do not have this opportunity. I HIGHLY recommend a research year for ortho in the coming years. With DO school expansion, DO ortho is going to be an absolute blood bath. Even more so than it is now. The other underrated aspect about research is that if you do a good job, you create lasting relationships which will result in good letters and people to make calls for you and help you match. With so many more DOs graduating (which means a lot more people with high board scores) research will allow you to set yourself apart in regards to CV, letters, and calls in an increasingly competitive field. Also, doing a research year means you can focus on boards and crush them, and then focus on research without responsibilities at school.


Summary: Score as high as you can, put as much sauce on your CV as you can, get as good of letters as you can, and rotate at high yield places is the recipe for matching DO ortho.


Also: Bold prediction, this year we will have double digit DOs matching to "MD" residencies. You heard it here first. I know of enough DOs with a couple MD interview invites that we are bound to have a handful them match at those places (one place I interviewed at had like 5 DOs interviewing that day), if we don't have more this year than in the past take it as a sign that MD ortho is completely off limits not just a huge reach like it is considered now.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. This post is 100% accurate to my experience as well and should be followed.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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Here goes nothing, I have the day off grab a cold one lol. This is directed at OP and just general info I have told multiple students in conversations so I might as well post it. Yes, I had nothing better to do today than to write this.

*There are certainly more people knowledgable than me*, but I will give my 2 cents as a dumb 4th year in the grind currently. My opinions are from what I have noticed on the trail this year, and from going to fracture conference and didactics with my home program since very early in my first year and watching and networking with different applicants over the last 4 years.

So basically the best odds to get an ortho spot as a DO isn't scores, or research it is networking and being likable. However, this applies mostly to your odds at 1 program in which you can expound your efforts before 4th year.

If you have a program and bust your balls going to fracture conference and such it will be noticed, and eventually they will want to get to know you. Once they do, if you keep those relationships going you will not only have a pretty good chance of matching there but will also have amazing mentorship and knowledge that will help you on all your other auditions. However, the caveat is you have to be likeable or this doesn't apply as much. As said above, showing up consistently, shutting up, listening, and showing growth is VERY important and can make you highly desirable by a program before 4th year and auditions even start.

The next best way is to have a killer app (duh) but what does this mean? In my experience over talking to people the last few years and then now in the application cycle it seems people with 250+ or 700+ and good letters/ ortho stuff on their CV get the cheese. What I mean is, overall your best odds of getting interviews and matching are at the places you rotate, but people with the above get a good amount of other opportunities as well because of their app.

In regards to both showing up and getting a killer app, none of that matters if you aren't a likeable person and a hard worker. You would be surprised at how many students on the audition trail are rude to fellow students / junior residents / nursing and who noticeably work less hard than those around them. Its noticed by students, and residents, and everyone in between. I had multiple rotations where the residents would put the rude/lazy dude on blast in front of everyone. Don't be that guy. I can't believe this is advice that needs to be given, but I saw first hand that it does.

I have noticed the applicants over the last few years (I know a lot of people through my services on national ortho boards and through mad networking) can be broken into 4 categories:

1. People who only get 1-2 interviews, despite rotating at 5 or so programs. (Usually due to a weaker app + possibly not fitting in as well with ortho)
2. People who get interviews at most of the places they rotate but no non-rotator interviews (usually average scores, but still a good rotator)
3. People who get interviews at most of the places they rotate and 1-2 non rotator interviews (usually above average scores to really high scores but no other *sauce* on the CV, good rotator)
4. People who get interviews at most of the places they rotate and 3+ non-rotator interviews (usually the people with very high scores, or something highly unique on their app that is very impressive)

Obviously more interviews = better chance of matching. I think the stat used to be 5 interviews for DO in DO ortho = match. This is certainly changing and will trend higher is my guess. Because most people can only do 4-5 auditions, that means you HAVE to get an interview at all of your auditions and a couple of non-rotator interviews to feel "cozy" (not that anyone applying ortho feels cozy)

Getting into category 4 is really tough, and you need to be very well rounded. I know people with 260's and 800's still in category 3 because thats all they had. No good ortho letters or extra ortho sauce on the CV. Then there are other people with low board scores for ortho who are in category 4 because their app is basically all sauce and no scores lol. So, boards are very important but not everything and an extremely strong or unusual app can make up for board score deficiencies. From my experience, it seems the people in group 4 gobble up most of the non-rotator interviews and you see the same group of people at all of the interviews as non-rotators.

Because of the above, choosing your auditions is very important. If you have 5 interviews, but they are all at places that rotate 50+ people and invite non-rotators the odds aren't great. If you have 2-3 interviews at places that rotate 15 people for 2 spots your odds are pretty good at those places. So, you need to pick auditions carefully. I would recommend 1 reach, and the rest safe picks (places that don't rotate a lot of people and require a rotation to interview). If you are dead set on ortho the goal should be to match, because any ortho match is prestigious imo despite what SDN says.

As far as MD ortho goes, you need to have great letters and research etc. to even get a look and even then is not going to go great. I know plenty of people in the 250's who applied to 100+ programs and got 1-2 MD interviews at community places that aren't any different from DO. I know of one person with around 10 MD interviews, but they skipped rotating at DO places and did 6 MD auditions at places that give interviews to all rotators in addition to a ridiculous app + diversity. The other thing is the "DO friendly" places that have taken DOs in the past got FLOODED with DOs this year. 8+ people rotating at mayo, 5 at LSU etc. So, we may have a DO match there this year, but I think the DO flood at these places will hurt all DOs. So if you rotate MD, think outside the box.

I would only plan on DO for ortho though if you wanna maximize chances unless you have a killer app. Even then, risky.

As far as research goes, it can be a really big boost to your app and if you can get good research you need to do it. Problem is, most DO schools do not have this opportunity. I HIGHLY recommend a research year for ortho in the coming years. With DO school expansion, DO ortho is going to be an absolute blood bath. Even more so than it is now. The other underrated aspect about research is that if you do a good job, you create lasting relationships which will result in good letters and people to make calls for you and help you match. With so many more DOs graduating (which means a lot more people with high board scores) research will allow you to set yourself apart in regards to CV, letters, and calls in an increasingly competitive field. Also, doing a research year means you can focus on boards and crush them, and then focus on research without responsibilities at school.


Summary: Score as high as you can, put as much sauce on your CV as you can, get as good of letters as you can, and rotate at high yield places is the recipe for matching DO ortho.


Also: Bold prediction, this year we will have double digit DOs matching to "MD" residencies. You heard it here first. I know of enough DOs with a couple MD interview invites that we are bound to have a handful them match at those places (one place I interviewed at had like 5 DOs interviewing that day), if we don't have more this year than in the past take it as a sign that MD ortho is completely off limits not just a huge reach like it is considered now.
Wow thank you so much for this!
 
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I’m an MS-0 so I’m not completely familiar with away rotations, but it appears the closest traditionally DO Ortho program would be ~7 hours from my school and all others 10+ hours away.

Do people do multiple away rotations this far away and how do they finance it?
 
Are you joining the ortho bro squad?
He’s been on it. The GS stuff is the backup. Knowing our boy grey tho, I expect him to hit the mark and get that real bone wizardery in the OR.
 
I’m an MS-0 so I’m not completely familiar with away rotations, but it appears the closest traditionally DO Ortho program would be ~7 hours from my school and all others 10+ hours away.

Do people do multiple away rotations this far away and how do they finance it?
You absolutely should do multiple aways in a former DO Ortho. For housing you can contact the programs and sometimes they have in house options or residents renting out rooms. There’s also a website rotating rooms that people use. It all costs money. Some people have savings and others take advantage of those zero interest credit cards if they have to.
 
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He’s been on it. The GS stuff is the backup. Knowing our boy grey tho, I expect him to hit the mark and get that real bone wizardery in the OR.

Haha. Almost. So I guess I’ll spill the beans, Ortho and GS have been a constant back and forth in my head for the last few months. After my ortho rotation, even though I had a blast with the residents and in the OR doing the cases, and talking with a close friend about it for a while, I realized that GS is where my heart it. So I’ll be applying GS.
 
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Haha. Almost. So I guess I’ll spill the beans, Ortho and GS have been a constant back and forth in my head for the last few months. After my ortho rotation, even though I had a blast with the residents and in the OR doing the cases, and talking with a close friend about it for a while, I realized that GS is where my heart it. So I’ll be applying GS.

Wow, I find this to be a pretty rare occurrence. What made it difficult for you to decide between the two?
 
Wow, I find this to be a pretty rare occurrence. What made it difficult for you to decide between the two?

You can PM me if you want, I don’t want to derail the thread further with personal saga lol
 
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Haha. Almost. So I guess I’ll spill the beans, Ortho and GS have been a constant back and forth in my head for the last few months. After my ortho rotation, even though I had a blast with the residents and in the OR doing the cases, and talking with a close friend about it for a while, I realized that GS is where my heart it. So I’ll be applying GS.
Screw the heart go for the moneyyyyyyyyyy!
These hoes ain’t loyal!

seriously tho, I understand, GS, despite having one of more difficult residencies, is about the broadest specialty you can have. A good general surgeon will know and manage so much, and especially if you go a little rural, can have the broadest practice of any specialty. It’s really about the most useful type of doc.

just make sure you open your own practice and don’t train your mid level to replace you.
 
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Anyone care to share what programs are known for having a limited number of rotators? Some of the DO programs are notoriously difficult to learn anything about unless you know a resident in the program.
 
Anyone care to share what programs are known for having a limited number of rotators? Some of the DO programs are notoriously difficult to learn anything about unless you know a resident in the program.


I will be leaving reviews of programs soon (after rank list submission) and encouraging my friends to do so as well. Will be starting a new thread about to because the merger changed many aspect of all DO ortho programs so the old DO ortho reviews page is not totally accurate anymore
 
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Haha. Almost. So I guess I’ll spill the beans, Ortho and GS have been a constant back and forth in my head for the last few months. After my ortho rotation, even though I had a blast with the residents and in the OR doing the cases, and talking with a close friend about it for a while, I realized that GS is where my heart it. So I’ll be applying GS.
With ortho back up?
 
Screenshot_20200209-171451~2.png

Very interesting. I suspect these are political answers. I would have thought that the majority of programs, (like at least 75%) wouldn't consider an MD under any circumstances, because that's how 95% of MD programs are and have been. But on the other hand, with the merger and the accompanying research requirements, having MDs with substantial research backgrounds (partially due to having access to research opps that DOs historically haven't had) would make them attractive candidates. Furthermore, I imagine these programs may be attempting to become more academic in general, and having these residents would help build these programs up from a research standpoint.

I wonder how true these stats are/how true they'll be in practice. Guess we'll have to see if the number of MDs matching into former AOA programs increase significantly this year. I don't suspect anyone has access to this data, but it would be nice if we knew how many MDs even applied to former AOA programs this year.
 
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View attachment 295182
Very interesting. I suspect these are political answers. I would have thought that the majority of programs, (like at least 75%) wouldn't consider an MD under any circumstances, because that's how 95% of MD programs are and have been. But on the other hand, with the merger and the accompanying research requirements, having MDs with substantial research backgrounds (partially due to having access to research opps that DOs historically haven't had) would make them attractive candidates. Furthermore, I imagine these programs may be attempting to become more academic in general, and having these residents would help build these programs up from a research standpoint.

I wonder how true these stats are/how true they'll be in practice. Guess we'll have to see if the number of MDs matching into former AOA programs increase significantly this year. I don't suspect anyone has access to this data, but it would be nice if we knew how many MDs even applied to former AOA programs this year.

Modesto had 600 apps. That means at least 300 were MD. This was stated at AOAO
 
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Modesto had 600 apps. That means at least 300 were MD. This was stated at AOAO
How does Modesto seem in terms of preferring DOs?
 
How does Modesto seem in terms of preferring DOs?

We will find out in March lol. There were a few that interviewed. I would say they prefer DOs but just want the best people they can get ya know? If it’s a tie I would say the nod goes to DO
 
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OP just tapped into the goldmine of DO ortho bro knowledge that is SDN.

Put in the work both inside and outside the classroom, be chill, reach out to your seniors for advice, and give it your best shot if you really want it.

I’ve got nothing more to contribute because i get all my advice from the homies above. This thread got me jacked up to see the post-match excitement though.
 
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OP just tapped into the goldmine of DO ortho bro knowledge that is SDN.

Put in the work both inside and outside the classroom, be chill, reach out to your seniors for advice, and give it your best shot if you really want it.

I’ve got nothing more to contribute because i get all my advice from the homies above. This thread got me jacked up to see the post-match excitement though.

Watch none of us match


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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Hey, this was a reply to a PM asking about my extracurriculars, advice, etc that I copied here and added a few things since it should be helpful to others:



I'm a fourth year DO ortho resident, currently interviewing for trauma fellowships.

I was in my school's rural and wilderness medicine track and also was a member of the SAOAO. I had one published emergency medicine research paper that I was third author on. I did a few volunteer activities such as medical staff for snowboard and mountain bike competitions and health fairs.

While you do have to check the boxes on your application for residencies and make sure you do these things, they're really not that important when it comes to actually matching ortho. Some spend way too much time working on various club positions, etc when that's very minimally looked at when programs are reviewing applicants. Research is one thing that will help more than the others, as research is now more important in DO ortho programs since the ACGME merger. If you can have one or more ortho related papers, that would be helpful but not essential (although you shouldn't have any part of your app blank so you gotta have at least one thing). I didn't do it, but the anatomy fellow year can be helpful. I think just about everyone I know who did it matched what they wanted, including ortho. I'm glad I didn't do it though, an extra year would have been brutal, it's long enough as is.

What's most important is being a good person, easy to get along with, hard working. Having really good LORs from ortho surgeons is super helpful. Also make sure you do well on all rotations, not just ortho. It's a red flag if you blow off other rotations. Be nice to everyone, you never know who can make or break you, even seemingly low level people like residency coordinators, nurses, OR techs, etc.

During your first two years, work really hard in every class and try to do very well. Ideally you get in top 10% of your class and you really learn the material so you can crush boards. Board scores are important for getting your foot in the door. Once you get to around 550-600 Comlex score, you're good and it doesn't matter if you get higher (although we do notice when someone rolls through with an 800+). If you're below that you won't even meet cutoff for an audition and your application won't be looked at. Do better on Level 2, red flag if your score drops.

Advice above can be helpful in terms of showing up to conferences at a program near you during your first two years to get to know the residents, however this is definitely not essential as nobody who has matched into our program did that, they just did fourth year auditions. It can be helpful to do a third year rotation at a program you're interested in. Expectations of you will be low, however you can still make a good impression and get to know people better. However, there is the risk that you could blow your chance to get a fourth year audition too if things don't go well so you gotta treat it as an audition and work super hard.

Do audition rotations fourth year, the more the better probably although I only did 3. Work really hard and don't be in peoples' faces while on audition rotations, be respectful and chill. Try to learn quickly how to be helpful for the interns or whoever you're working with. Learn some ortho so you can impress with your knowledge and xray reading skills. There are many SDN threads with good advice on how to be a good ortho auditioner. They're a little old, but still have sound advice.

Interviews are super important too, and I've seen interviews ruin people's chances even if they did great on their rotation and vice versa. Find those at your school who can help you prepare for interviews and preparing your application ,etc. Check out the book "The Successful Match". I read it and recommend it. A lot of helpful advice for the process, including interviews, etc.

Just remember ortho is crazy competitive and even more so now after the ACGME merger because fewer DO spots and not a lot of MD programs are suddenly gonna start taking a bunch of DOs. It takes a lot of hard work and tons of luck, I am still sometimes amazed that I actually matched ortho. There are lots of smart, cool, nice, and hard-working people out there with great applications going for ortho, some of whom don't end up matching. Just do your best and remember that there's a lot of good specialties out there and not matching ortho is not the worst thing that can happen in your life. With that said, I love ortho and super happy I matched, it's the best specialty IMO. Good luck everyone and I'm happy to answer more questions, although don't have tons of time so may take awhile to reply.
 
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I would just do FM in idaho and ski and chill with the fam so life is good for me either way lol


Lol, this was essentially my backup plan too and this is the super important way of looking at things.

I had that attitude also and I think it helped me not be so stressed out and helped me come off as more chill/less neurotic during my auditions. Being married with kids, taking that path certainly would have been easier on my family. I had sort of a fatalistic attitude about it all, I just worked as hard as I could and figured that whichever way it worked out would be meant to be.

Again I am extremely happy and grateful to have matched ortho, but I think it's important for people to remember to keep perspective about life in general during the whole process and remember that not matching ortho isn't the worst thing that can happen in your life.

Most places won't ask about any backup plans, but you just gotta be careful sharing that info with some people, some will see this as a lack of commitment to ortho. Personally, I think that's a bull**** attitude and I think having a backup plan is a realistic and smart thing to do during such a competitive process. You just gotta read the situation though, the one time I was asked directly about it by an attending in the OR with a chief resident present, I just honestly shared my FM backup plan and why given family stuff. They appreciated my honesty and I ended up matching to that program.

Also to address some other points, ortho research is super hard to get at a lot of DO schools, it was definitely not easy to find at my school. I think that would be another big advantage of trying to show up to your local ortho program conferences during your first two years. Since the formerly DO programs have more research requirements with ACGME, residents have to do more research during residency and I think most of us would be happy to to have a med student help with the more time consuming aspects of the papers. You'll probably have to do the ****ty data collection, data entry etc but you'll still get your name on the paper.

For my program at least, we are going to continue to take mostly DOs, knowing that it's even more of an uphill battle now for DO students after the merger, and that sentiment is shared by our MD program director. We will interview MD candidates and will definitely take one or so a year if they're awesome.
 
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