Matching with Major Red Flags

[nontradredflag]

A bit of background about me, I came into medical school as a non-trad student that had been working as a chemical engineer for a few years. First two years of medical school were great and I did well academically. This all changed as I began to study for step 1. I put too much pressure on myself and developed a very unhealthy lifestyle. I developed a severe eating disorder which caused me to go from 170 pounds to 91 pounds within about 6 months of time. During my first third-year clerkship (surgery), I was very mentally and physically compromised so the faculty at my school asked me to take a medical leave of absence to get healthy. This unfortunately caused me to fail my first clerkship (surgery).

During my MLOA, I couldn’t work due to my physical condition. I was desperate for money so I stole a bike from a gym. I was convicted of a misdemeanor theft and spent three months in jail. While in custody, I was hospitalized as my condition continued to deteriorate. After leaving jail, I stayed with my family on the condition I seek therapy. I met with a psychiatrist for about a year while I mentally and physically recovered.

I am currently working for the US department of energy as a chemical engineer and get compensated very well. I am very fortunate to have my current position as it requires a significant background investigation by the CIA and access to top secret information with regular polygraph screenings. It is the first time since my misdemeanor that I have been able to demonstrate my integrity and resilience and I am very proud of that.

After my psychiatrist saved my life, my desire to practice medicine has grown. I believe I have a valuable insight that could benefit a lot of people. My medical school recently contacted me and basically said it is now or never to return. They are fully aware of everything I have disclosed here. I want to return to medical school but my red flags are significant to say the least.

I know I am not competitive for anything competitive anymore but assuming everything goes well during third and fourth year, do you think I will have a chance to match?

Quick stats:
MS3
Major red flags: 3.5 year MLOA, misdemeanor theft, failed surgery clerkship
Pre-clinical grades: 97% - 104%
Step 1: 250

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[Goro]

Your school hasn't dismissed you for the theft???

 

[YeOleBoneWiz]

Just coming here to say something is not adding up if you want help don't leave out important details. How long of a time period is this all happened?

 

[thumbz]

They let you get security clearance (classified security clearance from your post) with a misdemeanor theft and jail time? Really?

How long have you been away from school? From your post it sounds like years? And your school still has you enrolled?

All of this sounds super fishy

 

[drducky.]

I came in this thread thinking major red flag is probably board failure or repeating a year.

Leaving wildly surprised.

 

[drstranger]

3.5 year MLOA

are you even considered a student after being gone this long?

 

[nontradredflag]

I have been gone for 3.5 years. Typical MLOA is maximum of 2 years. My medical school made an exception after meeting with the student progress committee. I have been working my current job as an engineer for 6 months. Its all true. I have everything arranged to return in December so two months from now.

 

[nontradredflag]

This is a major decision for me and would just appreciate some insight from the sdn community.

 

[ontiquicuo]

I am very fortunate to have my current position as it requires a significant background investigation by the CIA and access to top secret information with regular polygraph screenings

Sounds fishy. CIA does not handle security clearances. A recent history of criminal activity, financial instability, or psychiatric treatment could disqualify you from a TS clearance. All three together?

 

[xffan624]

This is a major decision for me and would just appreciate some insight from the sdn community.

Here's my advice. The red flags you have are significant. You have been away from medical school longer than you were in it. You have a job and career that is sustainable (according to you). Don't take on more loans and risk your mental health (arguably MS3 is worse for mental health due to the pressures of clerkship and the general ennui than any other year). Stick with your current job. Get your 30 years of government service, retire, live the life.

 

[nontradredflag]

I appreciate the feedback from all of you. It really means a lot. I know my story is hard to believe but its my life and the only reason I have my job is because I am 100% transparent about my mistakes.

 

[libertyyne]

Look if you have a US MD school welcoming you back. That usually means they are confident you will be able to gain some sort of residency placement post degree. I am not quite clear on the incident in surgery nor the conviction. and some parts of your story dont add up, but the school probably has a better idea of how problematic this red flag will be.
Do you want to become a physician? Because it doesnt seem like you have any other choice if you do.

 

[altblue]

Look if you have a US MD school welcoming you back. That usually means they are confident you will be able to gain some sort of residency placement post degree. I am not quite clear on the incident in surgery nor the conviction. and some parts of your story dont add up, but the school probably has a better idea of how problematic this red flag will be.
Do you want to become a physician? Because it doesnt seem like you have any other choice if you do.

I think the quality or veracity of this assessment is more school dependent. Given that some very suspect residency advice from advisors seems to pop up here and on /r/medicalschool from time to time, I could definitely see some schools welcoming the student back when their chances of securing residency aren't too great

 

[libertyyne]

I think the quality or veracity of this assessment is more school dependent. Given that some very suspect residency advice from advisors seems to pop up here and on /r/medicalschool from time to time, I could definitely see some schools welcoming the student back when their chances of securing residency aren't too great

The reason i premised my comment with " US MD school" is because for the most part at established schools those people know what they are doing.
At least for my school the people intricately involved with student placement are MDs who have guided hundreds if not thousands of people through the process. I would would trust them with this assessment. I mean the alternative is taking advice from anonymous people on a website. Which is frankly not particularly poignant in this edge case.

I would also take information that anonymous people give about "advice" they received with a grain of salt.

Just in a strictly logical perspective.

OP does not have a felony, which would outright bar him from practice in many places. There is a possibility that some state medical boards would give him trouble.

OP is not trying to become a dermatologist.

Med Schools are usually not in the business of having their match rates look bad, or stringing individuals along that would not qualify to practice medicine.

 

[Tenk]

Lol? People are actually taking this seriously? Op sounds like one of my regular ED schizophrenics...

 

[nontradredflag]

I acknowledge am very fortunate to have my current job and that my school is willing to take me back. I can make a great living doing what I do now but I still want to practice medicine. That hasn't changed at all.

My school is a SW mid-tier MD program. My advisor is confident I will be able to match but I can't help but be hesitant given my situation. I came to this forum knowing I would get mixed reactions. I was looking for someone involved with a residency program that could give their perspective.

I should also add that I can apply for expungemnt of the misdemeanor after 3 years so if I take a research year, I can have it removed from my record before submitting to eras. Obviously, this would be ideal but again I don't want to go through this process if no one will ultimately want me in their program. I honestly believe I still have a lot to offer.

 

[jmtbekm]

Are requirements to graduate in X number (ex: 6) of years or be dismissed school specific or do the accrediting bodies get involved in this?

 

[candbgirl]

I acknowledge am very fortunate to have my current job and that my school is willing to take me back. I can make a great living doing what I do now but I still want to practice medicine. That hasn't changed at all.

My school is a SW mid-tier MD program. My advisor is confident I will be able to match but I can't help but be hesitant given my situation. I came to this forum knowing I would get mixed reactions. I was looking for someone involved with a residency program that could give their perspective.

I should also add that I can apply for expungemnt of the misdemeanor after 3 years so if I take a research year, I can have it removed from my record before submitting to eras. Obviously, this would be ideal but again I don't want to go through this process if no one will ultimately want me in their program. I honestly believe I still have a lot to offer.

Well since you want people involved in residency programs to respond , maybe ask the mods to move it to the General Residency Forum.

 

[xffan624]

Are requirements to graduate in X number (ex: 6) of years or be dismissed school specific or do the accrediting bodies get involved in this?

There are requirements by some states in time to completing all the Step exams (usually about 7 years). OP started the clock already when they took Step 1, but theoretically could complete it in time if they take Step 3 early in intern year.

 

[optimist99]

1) Don't make your life decisions based off what people tell you on here

2) Talk to other admins at your school than just your advisor. (One of the assistant deans of the med school, perhaps? Your class counselor/advisor?) Ask them who you should be talking to in order to get the most honest answer. And when you do get to talk to those people in your med school, be completely transparent about everything that has transpired in the past 3.5 yrs. They should be able to tell you whether you will have success in medicine or not. (And as some others have stated, med schools don't want their match rates to be crappy so they don't like to admit people who won't match.)

As a side note, I'm an M4 applying and literally every time we have a class meeting our deans says something along the lines of "if you have a felony or misdemeanor on your app, please talk to us and we can help you navigate this." So it is possible to do- the key here is honesty, transparency, and looking for a true answer not just the one you want to hear. (As well as asking the right people. ie advisors, counselors, and assistant deans at your med school.)

 

[LunaOri]

Who gets sentenced to jail for a first-time misdemeanor theft? This does not sound real to me....

 

[nontradredflag]

I was in jail for three months while awaiting sentencing. I was released prematurely on a PR bond and sentenced a few months later with a misdemeanor and fine.

I wasn't sure where to post my question and I don't know how to request the thread be moved.

 

[Goro]

I was in jail for three months while awaiting sentencing. I was released prematurely on a PR bond and sentenced a few months later with a misdemeanor and fine.

I wasn't sure where to post my question and I don't know how to request the thread be moved.

There's a BIG difference between "I was convicted of a misdemeanor theft and spent three months in jail" and "I was in jail for three months while awaiting sentencing."

 

[nontradredflag]

I realize now posting my story was mostly a waste of time. I appreciate the people that took me seriously. For what its worth, I am still going back to school in December.

 

[altblue]

I realize now posting my story was mostly a waste of time. I appreciate the people that took me seriously. For what its worth, I am still going back to school in December.

Yes you've had plenty of people take you seriously and offer advice, but you should recognize how unusual your circumstances appear to others and how this might appear suspicious.

In any event, though, I believe your story and sincerely hope you maintain gainful employment, either through your current job or residency/practice.

 

[operaman]

I’m generally smelling some troll here but I’ll add a key thought that may help someone else down the road.

Don’t go back to school.

The only thing more likely to tank your mental health than medical school is residency, especially the kind of crappy program you’d have any shot at matching. The hours, intensity, pressure, stress, etc of residency are much higher than in medical school. You will also come in to residency under heightened scrutiny which makes it even harder.

You had your last breakdown triggered by a clerkship where you had no actual clinical responsibility and made no actual decisions. Imagine the same thing but longer hours, more responsibility, and serious decisions with the potential to hurt people while under intense scrutiny from your faculty.

You have a job you like and are doing well. Stay the course. No your experiences in this don’t actually give you any insight that will make you a better clinician. You’re much more likely to rack up two more years of debt before washing out of residency, assuming you match at all.

We all seem to assume that we will be able to do the work. That simply isn’t always the case. It’s like premeds with 2.4 GPAs and below average MCATs asking how to better their app when even if they got in would be at high risk of flunking out. In the face of overwhelming objective data saying clinical medicine isn’t right for you, it may be worth considering a different path.

 

[Oligodinero]

They let you get security clearance (classified security clearance from your post) with a misdemeanor theft and jail time? Really?

How long have you been away from school? From your post it sounds like years? And your school still has you enrolled?

All of this sounds super fishy

I thought the FBI did background checks for security clearances. At least they do for top secret clearances for the military.

 

[nontradredflag]

I am the first person to admit my circumstances are absurd but I assure you that it is unfortunately all true.

The agent assigned to perform my investigation may have been fbi but if I remember correctly it was cia. All I can say is my work involves the production of special materials used in the non-nuclear components of nuclear weapons.

I have had a lot of time to think. More than most. I am a different person than when I started medical school. Ive grown, matured a lot. I recognize and accept my mistakes. I am in a very good place now mentally and physically. I will consider everything you all have said seriously going forward.

 

[nontradredflag]

The agent basically determined a bike thief is an idiot but not a threat to national security.

 

[Osteosaur]

You need to talk to an admin.

It seriously sounds like you got your life and income back on track with this new job. Medicine is a conservative culture and not very forgiving of personal struggles, sadly. As grateful as I am for each attending who tries to make my life easier you see how senior residents ride interns.

 

[nontradredflag]

If this is true then I may take my advisors advice and take a research year. This would allow me to get the misdemeanor expunged before submitting to ERAS. It kills me to delay another year but I can't argue the benefit of doing so.

 

[7331poas]

Aight this is definitely some type of schizophrenia or mania. By the way, no state in the country is going to put someone in jail for months over a bike theft. In fact most wont even pursue a conviction unless the theft is more substantial.

 

[Petrichor1]

By the almighty, do not go back to med school. If I had a choice as good as yours I wouldn't. Research year is always filled with ppl taking your work and paying you much less. DO NOT.GO BACK.... get your life on the right path. Medicine is not forgiving and it is a very conservative culture

 

[libertyyne]

If this is true then I may take my advisors advice and take a research year. This would allow me to get the misdemeanor expunged before submitting to ERAS. It kills me to delay another year but I can't argue the benefit of doing so.

I would get a second opinion from a lawyer and another advisor . Since you may still have to disclose the conviction even if it is expunged to some medical boards.

 

[operaman]

I would get a second opinion from a lawyer and another advisor . Since you may still have to disclose the conviction even if it is expunged to some medical boards.

This. My recollection is there are questions wherein you have to disclose anything that could interfere with licensure. This gets into a gray area where professional legal counsel is definitely advised. My general sense is that disclosure is always preferred because then if you match you end up somewhere you know is willing to be open minded. Failure to disclose is a big risk.

No matter what you’re going to have the 4+ year gap to explain while also convincing places you haven’t lost all the medical knowledge you previously gained. I’m still strongly on the side of sticking with the new career path and having a great life.

 

[RangerBob]

My understanding is the FBI does all the serious background checks, but it wouldn't surprise me if for some sensitive positions the CIA was involved.

If the OP was homeless, that could explain a bit of why they were jailed. Poverty and homelessness mixed in with criminal activity and old-fashioned bad luck can mean being held in jail. Still, most jurisdictions won't jail someone for pettier crimes like that because there are so many more serious criminals they really do need to hold. A 3-month hold sounds quite excessive too.

I agree things don't add up in general here. Still, lets give the OP the benefit of the doubt as sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

I don't think the bike theft is really an issue. That's just a small red flag (but still a red flag as it occurred recently/while in medical school). The biggest red flag is the 3.5 LOA. That is a really long time to be out of the game. That alone is a huge hurdle to get by. And I am guessing the OP was likely diagnosed with a pretty serious disorder--losing almost 50% of your body weight, becoming homeless, and comiting a crime/getting jailed aren't things that happen to most people with just an eating disorder (aside from the weight loss issue).

Also, making it to the point that the LOA becomes a hurdle assumes the OP makes it through M3 and M4. And then you have to make it through residency.

OP-if you want something bad enough, go for it. I would only recommend going that route if your psychiatrist and psychologist are 100% on board and you continue to follow with them closely upon resuming school. And I'd only recommend going back if you accept you probably need to apply to uncompetitive specialties (like GM/IM) and that even then, there's a very real risk you won't match--many (perhaps most/all) programs would prefer an FMG/IMG with no red flags to a US MD with the history you've provided.

However, if M2/board studying caused such a huge life-changing event, I'd personally recommend not going back to med school. M3 and intern year were the two most stressful years of my life. Maybe that stress doesn't get to you the way the pressure of a standardized exam does, but in general most of found M3 and internship to be much more stressful and missed our M2/Step1 days. I am worried if you go back you could relapse again given how serious this first episode was. No career is worth your life/well-being. If you are "happy enough" where you are currently, I'd consider staying where you are. Government jobs are great things to have. Plus, you can get your M1-2 loans forgiven through PSLF, so loan repayment isn't really an issue right now. Your life and happiness are more valuable than a medical degree. Think hard about what you really want in your life.

 

[nontradredflag]

Aight this is definitely some type of schizophrenia or mania. By the way, no state in the country is going to put someone in jail for months over a bike theft. In fact most wont even pursue a conviction unless the theft is more substantial.

I stole a bike that was expensive enough to warrant felony charges. While in custody, my bond amount was too high for my family/friends to pay so I was stuck in jail while waiting for my next court date. I was released from jail after my second appearance in court and given a PR bond that had strict terms while awaiting sentencing. Several months and court appearances later I was sentenced to a misdemeanor theft and fine. The end. I'm not talking about this anymore and I have frankly said more than I should. Consider yourself lucky to be so ignorant of the legal system, I sure was before this mess.

 

[7331poas]

I stole a bike that was expensive enough to warrant felony charges. While in custody, my bond amount was too high for my family/friends to pay so I was stuck in jail while waiting for my next court date. I was released from jail after my second appearance in court and given a PR bond that had strict terms while awaiting sentencing. Several months and court appearances later I was sentenced to a misdemeanor theft and fine. The end. I'm not talking about this anymore and I have frankly said more than I should. Consider yourself lucky to be so ignorant of the legal system, I sure was before this mess.

What kind of bike did you find at a gym that met felony level theft?

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

What kind of bike did you find at a gym that met felony level theft?

Nice bikes (think road bikes, triathlon bikes, etc) can easily be in the thousands of dollars. That would qualify for a felony. I could see someone bringing one to the gym, though they'd be an idiot not to secure it.
The 3 months in jail is unfortunately not that unbelievable if they don't have the means to make bail. our justice system is incredibly broken in that way.

OP, it sounds like you're planning to go back to school regardless of what advice you receive. If you do, PLEASE make sure that you arrange a strong support system for yourself, well before the first sign of trouble. If your previous issues were as serious as described, you're going to want a village full of family, friends, psychiatrists, and admins on your side to help you get through school.

 

[nontradredflag]

Nice bikes (think road bikes, triathlon bikes, etc) can easily be in the thousands of dollars. That would qualify for a felony. I could see someone bringing one to the gym, though they'd be an idiot not to secure it. The 3 months in jail is unfortunately not that unbelievable if they don't have the means to make bail. our justice system is incredibly broken in that way. OP, it sounds like you're planning to go back to school regardless of what advice you receive. If you do, PLEASE make sure that you arrange a strong support system for yourself, well before the first sign of trouble. If your previous issues were as serious as described, you're going to want a village full of family, friends, psychiatrists, and admins on your side to help you get through school. One of the requirements for me to be officially accepted back was to meet with the student progress committee and develop a plan of action that would support my health. Unfortunately, my medical school is very far from my family and friends but I am confident with the plan we established.

 

[bonedoc5576]

OP, I am not qualified to give advice on a topic of such gravity, though will offer my opinion that your story would likely put you in the most favorable light for a residency in psychiatry. If that field interests you, I would not be deterred

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

No way this cannot be a troll.

This seems like a fantasy scenario one might imagine while zoning out on a boring rotation.

 

[nontradredflag]

OP, I am not qualified to give advice on a topic of such gravity, though will offer my opinion that your story would likely put you in the most favorable light for a residency in psychiatry. If that field interests you, I would not be deterred

I appreciate the support. Thats the plan.

 

[jmtbekm]

What kind of bike did you find at a gym that met felony level theft?

In some states $500 is felony level theft.

 

[phiponachi]

if is was just a misdemeanor, I think it would be just fine, but if it is a felony, if you match your program, you might have trouble applying the license, that's what I heard some 2nd-year residents did not get the contract renewal?

 

[Phloston]

A bit of background about me, I came into medical school as a non-trad student that had been working as a chemical engineer for a few years. First two years of medical school were great and I did well academically. This all changed as I began to study for step 1. I put too much pressure on myself and developed a very unhealthy lifestyle. I developed a severe eating disorder which caused me to go from 170 pounds to 91 pounds within about 6 months of time. During my first third-year clerkship (surgery), I was very mentally and physically compromised so the faculty at my school asked me to take a medical leave of absence to get healthy. This unfortunately caused me to fail my first clerkship (surgery).

During my MLOA, I couldn’t work due to my physical condition. I was desperate for money so I stole a bike from a gym. I was convicted of a misdemeanor theft and spent three months in jail. While in custody, I was hospitalized as my condition continued to deteriorate. After leaving jail, I stayed with my family on the condition I seek therapy. I met with a psychiatrist for about a year while I mentally and physically recovered.

I am currently working for the US department of energy as a chemical engineer and get compensated very well. I am very fortunate to have my current position as it requires a significant background investigation by the CIA and access to top secret information with regular polygraph screenings. It is the first time since my misdemeanor that I have been able to demonstrate my integrity and resilience and I am very proud of that.

After my psychiatrist saved my life, my desire to practice medicine has grown. I believe I have a valuable insight that could benefit a lot of people. My medical school recently contacted me and basically said it is now or never to return. They are fully aware of everything I have disclosed here. I want to return to medical school but my red flags are significant to say the least.

I know I am not competitive for anything competitive anymore but assuming everything goes well during third and fourth year, do you think I will have a chance to match?

Quick stats:
MS3
Major red flags: 3.5 year MLOA, misdemeanor theft, failed surgery clerkship
Pre-clinical grades: 97% - 104%
Step 1: 250

The theft component will be an instantaneous rejection at most places I'd imagine. The MLOA and rotation setback happen.

Even if you've "grown," people don't care about this arbitrary notion of character growth like you'd want to believe.

 

[Redpancreas]

The theft component will be an instantaneous rejection at most places I'd imagine. The MLOA and rotation setback happen.

Even if you've "grown," people don't care about this arbitrary notion of character growth like you'd want to believe.

Second this. Admissions isn't at all a human/holistic process. No one's going to read your application actively looking for hidden potential. They're looking for people with clean slates who did well the first time. That said, some places that cannot afford to, by default, eliminate all red-flag candidates may be more forgiving and do a bit of digging.

OP I also think this post is tickling my Hollywood fantasy side like others have said, but if this is true (and also for anyone reading this), I would say that if you're willing to have an open mind and apply broadly (ex. FM) you'll be successful and if you apply yourself there, you will make a difference to your patients.