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deleted1088666
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if you want ENT or NS go MD. It is very hard to match either of those in general and going to a DO school makes it a lot harder.
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DO student here.
Unless there is a significant geographical reason for you to pick a particular DO school, go USMD.
Unless there is a significant geographical reason for you to pick a particular DO school, go USMD.
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Yes, at least I would, MCAT sucks but working 2x as hard to get similar results for 4 years is worse
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Agree with drstranger above.
I had to put in ~5 extra hours a week for OMM. It doesn't sound like much, but it adds up.
That's on top of taking two separate board exams not to mention how it impacts your residency chances.
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AnatomyGrey12
Yes.
DO applying to a surgical field right now, with close friends that applied to surgical subs last year and this year. If you want to even consider ENT and NS you need to go MD. People do match those fields as a DO, but you need to literally be one of the best DO students in the country.
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AnatomyGrey12
0% chance.
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Agree with AnatomyGrey. I'm applying to a surgical sub specialty right now. I thought I could overcome the DO bias with top notch board scores, 1st author specialty specific research, LOR's, top class rank, etc. Got 0 interviews from MD programs where I wasn't able to do a sub-internship. Without the scored step 1, I never would have been able to get the 1 MD audition and interview that I got. With Pass/no pass boards, the era of DO's matching to competitive specialties will likely end unless our generation steps up into program leadership positions and specifically seeks out DO candidates. That ship has already sailed in Neurosurgery and ENT with the exception of 2-3 programs in each specialty.
It’s sad how the MCAT now decides your specialty a decade down the road. This isn’t just md vs do either, even the difference between a top 20 vs lower tier md programs make a big difference for competitive specialties.
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Not everybody can be a neurosurgeon.
And single metrics do not determine one's fate, either. Source? My DO grads who made it to uber-specialties.
You determine your own fate
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AnatomyGrey12
NSG, Ophtho, and integrated plastics yeah, unless you go to a school with programs in those fields (assuming you are a complete rockstar)
ENT is slightly more possible simply because the DO programs are still mainly DO and there are like 14 spots.
Yes those others are slightly more realistic, and derm is tenuous because a lot of the DO programs now take MDs and the only successful derm people I know have numbers off the charts.
Ortho and GS are much more realistic. Ortho is still very audition heavy (still have to be a top DO student though) and then GS is lower on the competitive scale than the rest of them if you just want to match somewhere (don’t recommend as not all programs are created equal).
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yes, there are like 120ish (don't know the exact numbers) Ortho spots from former AOA programs that still favor DOs but only because DOs are the only one auditioning at those programs. How they determine who gets to audition... who knows
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deleted1088666
How much easier do you think it would be to obtain ortho residency as a MD compared to DO, regardless of the prestige and reputation of a specific residency program?
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It will only get harder as more and more DO schools open. MDs have a lot more residency spots but you still have to be top of your class. I would think it is easier as a MD
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From the program directors survey for 2020. Numbers are %'s of the respondents. No data this year for thoracic surgery, so the row is from the 2018 survey.
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AnatomyGrey12
A combination of first come first serve and meeting score cutoffs or other criteria. Competitive MDs aren’t going to start auditioning at DO programs in large quantities.
Most programs will continue to favor DOs because they are run by DOs and they have verbalized they know DOs aren’t really given a fair shake by MD programs. I spent a lot of time dabbling in the DO ortho world, this isn’t a controversial opinion for people who are familiar with the current affairs of DO ortho.
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Go MD if you can. Doors open way easier for whatever you want. A 230 step 1 score from a DO school does NOT equal a 230 from an MD school.
Here’s an analogy for you.
Imagine a ladder, at an MD school it’s a regular ladder that will get you where you need to go as long as you climb it.
The same ladder in a DO school is greased with oil, missing steps and is made of jello. Get where I’m going? It’s not impossible, but it’s a **** ton harder to climb.
Here’s an analogy for you.
Imagine a ladder, at an MD school it’s a regular ladder that will get you where you need to go as long as you climb it.
The same ladder in a DO school is greased with oil, missing steps and is made of jello. Get where I’m going? It’s not impossible, but it’s a **** ton harder to climb.
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deleted1074916
Would you guys give up a for sure admission early on in your career? I feel like some people would take the DO acceptance and run with it. Especially if you haven’t taken the MCAT and there is a chance you do poorly and mess up the only admission you had.
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deleted1088666
That’s a good question, I think it depends on what specialty you want to go into. If you are interested in family med, internal med, pediatrics, etc. I see no reason why DO wouldn’t be the best route.
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I think you can add Gas, DR, EM, and Psych where DOs match well.
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I took my DO acceptance and ran with it. I saved myself another year of apps for sure but I think it’s unfair at the moment to say I wouldn’t do it again.
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deleted1074916
Can I ask what you are planning on matching in?
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deleted898021
You can match ENT, urology and even stuff like derm, ortho , optho etc at DO spots, you will need the scores for it, but for MD spots you will need scores, good auditions, connections via research and conferences and even sometimes a research year, this is based on alumni in my class who matched these things at former AOA and traditional MD spots. It’s harder as a DO no doubt but by no means impossible..
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