Math for Physics

[Maali]

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I'm taking Physics 1 this summer & I do not know math that well. I can learn it but my knowledge of it at the moment isn't good. It is algebra based and I would like to know what math I should focus on & self teach before summer classes start. I will be taking Calculus in the future but for now I just really want to know the math necessary for algebra based physics. Thank you guys!

 

[Boolean]

Algebra based physics is easy peasy. You'll need a calculator, that's for sure, but for the most part it is highly easy. It's a lot of "here is the formula, memorize it for the test"

On the test, you simply need to recall the formula and plug in the respective values the problem presents.

 

[487806]

I'm taking Physics 1 this summer & I do not know math that well. I can learn it but my knowledge of it at the moment isn't good. It is algebra based and I would like to know what math I should focus on & self teach before summer classes start. I will be taking Calculus in the future but for now I just really want to know the math necessary for algebra based physics. Thank you guys!

Algebra based physics is a joke. You'll learn enough math in your physics class. No math prereqs necessary.

 

[Boolean]

Algebra based physics is a joke. You'll learn enough math in your physics class. No math prereqs necessary.

Err, not necessarily. I think most Physics I classes do require college algebra.

 

[487806]

Err, not necessarily. I think most Physics I classes do require college algebra.

I mean, they give you equations and you use them in a straightforward manner. At least that's what I did when i took it as a sophomore high school student (and i used Giancoli).

 

[scrub2scrubs]

You just need to know how to solve basic algebraic equations such as 2x+4=10, what does x equal? The equations may get more involved than that, but is still pretty basic. You can watch khan academy videos on a topic in physics 1 such as projectile motion and look at the math that he does.

 

[SN12357]

I'm taking Physics 1 this summer & I do not know math that well. I can learn it but my knowledge of it at the moment isn't good. It is algebra based and I would like to know what math I should focus on & self teach before summer classes start. I will be taking Calculus in the future but for now I just really want to know the math necessary for algebra based physics. Thank you guys!

You need algebra and basic trig (specifically, properties of right triangles). Sometimes physics classes will post a math pre-test. For example Harvard Extension's algebra-based premed physics classes have a math quiz posted here: http://www.courses.dce.harvard.edu/~physe1b/ with recommendations of what to do depending on how you score.

 

[CollegeGirl94]

Same level of Math needed for Chem, not much.

 

[Life Sucks]

Second year of physics at my school is easier with calculus 1 and 2. But generally, my school requires at least algebra to pre-calculus.

 

[Espadaleader]

Algebra based physics is easy peasy. You'll need a calculator, that's for sure, but for the most part it is highly easy. It's a lot of "here is the formula, memorize it for the test"

On the test, you simply need to recall the formula and plug in the respective values the problem presents.

This isn't true. General Physics I & II is a difficult course. I suggest you take a pre-calc or calc course before hand. You have to be very good in algebra and trig.

 

[Espadaleader]

Don't listen to the hype on SDN or you will bomb.

 

[CollegeGirl94]

This isn't true. General Physics I & II is a difficult course. I suggest you take a pre-calc or calc course before hand. You have to be very good in algebra and trig.

Algebra and trig don't require Calc though.
The hardest I encountered in AP was a quadratic.

 

[487806]

This isn't true. General Physics I & II is a difficult course. I suggest you take a pre-calc or calc course before hand. You have to be very good in algebra and trig.

Don't listen to the hype on SDN or you will bomb.

Even a very basic knowledge in trig and algebra is enough for algebra-based physics.

 

[Espadaleader]

Even a very basic knowledge in trig and algebra is enough for algebra-based physics.

General Physics (Non-Calc based) is usually a course taken by Juniors. Even though its not Calc-based, most who take it that are pre-med have taken Calc or at least Pre-Calc. You do not want your first experience with math in a college setting to be in General Physics. This is especially true if you're weak in math. This is also assuming the OP has no experience with AP Physics in high school.

 

[487806]

General Physics (Non-Calc based) is usually a course taken by Juniors. Even though its not Calc-based, most who take it that are pre-med have taken Calc or at least Pre-Calc. You do not want your first experience with math in a college setting to be in General Physics. This is especially true if you're weak in math. This is also assuming the OP has no experience with AP Physics in high school.

Well I guess to each their own but algebra-based physics (no matter how difficult the prof makes it --> not really possible) is doable with minimal math. I took a similar version back in high school, used the Giancoli text that is a popular book used at a college level, and my teacher provided tests that were at a college level. And this was in high school before AP Physics. If you're stating this for calc-based physics, I would agree with it, but for algebra-based physics, probably not.

No matter how much profs want to spin it, algebra-based physics is hardly math intensive, because the crucial equations are either dumbed down or completely ignored. Now, if the class does include equations like Maxwell's Equations, then it could be a problem and you probably will be right. But having a comprehensive knowledge in algebra or trigonometry really won't help with algebra-based physics (heck I don't even remember most of the trig identities).

@Maali will probably agree with you since I usually despise algebra-based physics and wish medical schools will abolish it and replace with calculus-based physics. But since you've experienced it at a college level (which arguably is probably equivalent to my high school course = my high school isn't a joke sadly), you're probably more reliable with this compared to my radical views

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

You don't really need trig. Just know the included angle is cos, the other one is sin. Bam, force vector components! You're halfway there already.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

This isn't true. General Physics I & II is a difficult course. I suggest you take a pre-calc or calc course before hand. You have to be very good in algebra and trig.

The OP said they are taking algebra based physics. Why would you recommend calculus for that? Being very good in algebra or trig does not come by taking Calculus.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

.

@Maali will probably agree with you since I usually despise algebra-based physics and wish medical schools will abolish it and replace with calculus-based physics. But since you've experienced it at a college level (which arguably is probably equivalent to my high school course = my high school isn't a joke sadly), you're probably more reliable with this compared to my radical views

Long story short, I took both. Took the calc based first, then many years later as a non-trad took the algebra based for the 2nd physics as a refresher.
There is value in the algebra based classes as many more homework problems can be assigned so you get much more familiar with the concepts, hitting it from many different angles because the prof knows you don't need 20 minutes a problem to work out the math. Calc based physics 2 was such a beast that I never really felt like I got what I was supposed to get out of it. The algebra based one gave me so much exposure to the concepts that I felt like I really understood it this time around.

 

[487806]

You don't really need trig. Just know the included angle is cos, the other one is sin. Bam, force vector components! You're halfway there already.

Speaking about vector components, algebra-based physics doesn't cover dot product and cross product. I'm disappointed because those two are big deal in understanding physics.

 

[487806]

Long story short, I took both. Took the calc based first, then many years later as a non-trad took the algebra based for the 2nd physics as a refresher.
There is value in the algebra based classes as many more homework problems can be assigned so you get much more familiar with the concepts, hitting it from many different angles because the prof knows you don't need 20 minutes a problem to work out the math. Calc based physics 2 was such a beast that I never really felt like I got what I was supposed to get out of it. The algebra based one gave me so much exposure to the concepts that I felt like I really understood it this time around.

Uh... algebra is used pretty heavily in calc-based physics too. And I'm not sure how you learned more from algebra-based version of E&M (that's physics 2 I think you're talking about), but whatever. At least you learned something, so that's always a plus.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Speaking about vector components, algebra-based physics doesn't cover dot product and cross product. I'm disappointed because those two are big deal in understanding physics.

Unless someone is going on to engineering or more physics, they really don't need this. They teach cross products in the intuitive manner of RHR and stuff like that. Just giving the students an idea of which direction resultant vector will act in.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Uh... algebra is used pretty heavily in calc-based physics too. And I'm not sure how you learned more from algebra-based version of E&M (that's physics 2 I think you're talking about), but whatever. At least you learned something, so that's always a plus.

Easy killer.
I'm saying you if you want to get stronger in algebra and trig, then you do algebra and trig, not try to tackle a whole new idea that is calculus.

I didn't say I "learned more", I said I got more exposure to the concepts because I had to work a lot more problems that hit every angle imaginable. So I understood the concepts better.

 

[487806]

Unless someone is going on to engineering or more physics, they really don't need this. They teach cross products in the intuitive manner of RHR and stuff like that. Just giving the students an idea of which direction resultant vector will act in.

@mimelim posted the reasons why calc-based physics is very useful in medicine (although indirectly observed in residency). I couldn't find it though and really don't wish to reiterate the same argument over again. Since med schools are incorporating psychology and sociology to the curriculum, they should also move to replace algebra-based physics with calc-based physics. Stricter standards yes. Some premeds will quit, fine. But people will still find their way through successfully

Easy killer.
I'm saying you if you want to get stronger in algebra and trig, then you do algebra and trig, not try to tackle a whole new idea that is calculus.
I didn't say I "learned more", I said I got more exposure to the concepts because I had to work a lot more problems that hit every angle imaginable. So I understood the concepts better.

Yeah agreed.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

@mimelim posted the reasons why calc-based physics is very useful in medicine (although indirectly observed in residency). I couldn't find it though and really don't wish to reiterate the same argument over again. Since med schools are incorporating psychology and sociology to the curriculum, they should also move to replace algebra-based physics with calc-based physics. Stricter standards yes. Some premeds will quit, fine. But people will still find their way through successfully

I have no doubt that a calc-based understanding of Physics is beneficial. I do doubt whether or not it's necessary. I have no skin in this game, having taken both. I see the value in each.

 

[487806]

I have no doubt that a calc-based understanding of Physics is beneficial. I do doubt whether or not it's necessary. I have no skin in this game, having taken both. I see the value in each.

Yeah that's a separate matter for another day

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Yeah that's a separate matter for another day

But keeping in the context of my response about dot vs cross products, surely no one has made the case that that distinction is useful in medicine?

 

[487806]

But keeping in the context of my response about dot vs cross products, surely no one has made the case that that distinction is useful in medicine?

Anything in physics has an application to medicine, whether directly or indirectly.

Hint: how do you think an MRI or fMRI work?

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Anything in physics has an application to medicine, whether directly or indirectly

I was referring to the other poster that you referred to, since you were replying to my stating that knowing the difference between cross and dot is probably only applicable to engineering students or physics students.

 

[moisne]

Solve for x in 5=9.81x and and quadratics x^2-5x+6=0

And you are solid

 

[487806]

I was referring to the other poster that you referred to, since you were replying to my stating that knowing the difference between cross and dot is probably only applicable to engineering students or physics students.

Yeah it's popular in those disciplines. What I was getting at is it's not exactly useless in medicine just because it isn't directly observed. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if you had to use a FFT to analyze an EKG

Well isn't this interesting

Anyways, /hijack. @Maali if you're not confident, follow what @Espadaleader stated to the dot.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Yeah it's popular in those disciplines. What I was getting at is it's not exactly useless in medicine just because it isn't directly observed. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if you had to use a FFT to analyze a EKG

But how direct or indirect is actually the issue. In this case, if a machine is doing the FFT and spitting out something that a person can be taught to read correctly then it's really not necessary for them to be able to perform the math behind the algorithm.

 

[487806]

But how direct or indirect is actually the issue. In this case, if a machine is doing the FFT and spitting out something that a person can be taught to read correctly then it's really not necessary for them to be able to perform the math behind the algorithm.

Uh... yeah, we'll continue this elsewhere

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Anything in physics has an application to medicine, whether directly or indirectly.

Hint: how do you think an MRI or fMRI work?

Anything in physics has an application to every single occupation you can think of. That doesn't mean it's necessary to know it to perform that occupation.

I know some incredible welders who know little to nothing about Metallurgy.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Uh... yeah, we'll continue this elsewhere

Start a thread, let's do this.

Just keep it above the belt. An anonymous debate is just that, I have no desire to attack your personhood. I enjoy the intellectual stimulation. This is lost on most SNDers.

 

[487806]

Anything in physics has an application to every single occupation you can think of. That doesn't mean it's necessary to know it to perform that occupation.

I know some incredible welders who know little to nothing about Metallurgy.

Yeah let's continue this elsewhere. I really don't want to sound like a broken record here

 

[487806]

Start a thread, let's do this.

Social thread. Be there or be square. 😎

 

[x1240tony]

I'm taking Physics 1 this summer & I do not know math that well. I can learn it but my knowledge of it at the moment isn't good. It is algebra based and I would like to know what math I should focus on & self teach before summer classes start. I will be taking Calculus in the future but for now I just really want to know the math necessary for algebra based physics. Thank you guys!

Here are some good links for you OP. These are full class playlists.

College Algebra:


Trig:


PreCalc: