Matrix - Game Thread

[Zenge142]

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We won't know if they are

Are we not yeeting moon?

Mafia flips will only reveal the affiliation of the Mafia player, whereas Town flips will reveal the full role of the Town player.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

 

[SportPonies]

Also, while I could say I agree with what @potentialsheltervet said about Achro at EoD seemed like good points and I think Achro needs to be more discussed. I am a bit wary of why you didnt vote for mkg and tried to do a cfd like... 10 minutes before day was over. You really thought after all the day of discussion you would come in and in 10 minutes just do a big shift ?

If that would've happened it'd be just bad play from town. And idk if it was like -5 min til close and the wagons being tied at shinichi-mkg , you saying you suspected mkg and you were going to let it rand??

I don't remember why I quoted this but I think I was going to come back and reevaluate it.

I’d be shocked if moon wasn’t blocked, given there’s a mafia blocker in all setups.

The target choice is still an interesting piece of information though.

I'm not really sure why you offered this before waiting for their response, but interested to see how D2 unrolls.

I made the same mistake as @samac but backwards.

I assumed it was only rows.

And this... feels villagey.

Assuming a w!moon flip today, Santy's analysis of her on page 19 is admirable tbh.

 

[samac]

I don't remember why I quoted this but I think I was going to come back and reevaluate it.


I'm not really sure why you offered this before waiting for their response, but interested to see how D2 unrolls.


And this... feels villagey.

Assuming a w!moon flip today, Santy's analysis of her on page 19 is admirable tbh.

…..Assuming….
Lol

 

[SportPonies]

…..Assuming….
Lol

calling flips before they happen scares me

 

[SportPonies]

vote  moonstermash

maybe if we hammer i wont get in trouble for not reaching post min 😬

see, this vote in isolation actually really bothers me. Easy for a w!Clem to know moon is in trouble, and hop on the vote early for cred, however...

Also I agree that Stagg isn't really thinking about it right, "an advantage on fake claiming" just isn't really a thing that matters for a d1 mafia claim, the point is usually to draw out a claim of any type and/or survive because town PRs don't want to claim, you absolutely don't have to make an accurate fake claim for that

Which, btw, if you're a town PR and know that doctor can't exist in the setup, you should absolutely claim that, that's a trade worth making every time.

The amount of footwork that Clem put into explaining his math also doesn't feel wolfy.

 

[SportPonies]

I hate looking at the matrix, it makes my head hurt

hmmm

Can I get peoples thoughts on this? Agreements/disagreements
I feel a little stuck

I am really not used to you being this ~collaborative~ and that's what has been nagging me most

I wanted to put everyone in one box or the other. It’s not a reading card read by any means, but just knowing mayo and I think he would try harder if he felt a wolf group was counting on hi

oho your brain was where mine was.

 

[SportPonies]

A moment to recognize that my entire view of the game is somewhat tilted by my belief in w!Stagg

how ya doin now, broski?

 

[SportPonies]

I’ll say after the game lol

oof this feels villagey

 

[SportPonies]

Not that I thought it would matter because of the mafia blocker, but Zenge. He's the player I feel best about after mkg's flip.

I don't know if I believe that a wolf on thin ice would claim a packmate as their top village read.
So that's regrettable.

 

[genny]

I am not vibing with moon's reads. Probably means they are town.

I don't vibe with her reads or her vote on Shinichi, and her callout of me felt bad.

^I'm the her in this quote.

Like what is there for you to grasp onto about shinichi there? He has two posts. He is perfectly rand probably. What insight could you glean from others

^Pushing Zenges about Shinichi

Anyway, not that I think this is gonna help, but this is about where I'm at, not ordered in tiers:

moonster

Gikkle
Stagg737

Achromatic
samac
Spacecamp
WildZoo
Zenge142

holdthemayo
mkg323
potentialsheltervet

ShinichiMD

Clem J
genny
Santy

Thanks, appreciate it.

If Shinichi is scum, very likely at least one of the mkg votes was to protect him. Who would you suspect there?

^Directed to Zenge

TBH, I didn't really understand the mkg wagon much, it kinda felt like it popped up out of nowhere. Whereas being on the Shinichi wagon (with mkg) made more sense to me. It's probably where I would have gone if I didn't get overwhelmed and lose track of time, whoops.

^Up for yeet, loses track of time, whoops.

Alright, I caught up, but I was hoping to get the spreadsheet done and posted, and I'm not quite there yet. (I should really figure out how Nate automates things, I'm silly enough to do it all manually.) Hopefully I'll have more time for that tonight/early tomorrow.

In the meantime, this is where I'm at:

Zenge
Achro

samac & Dubz

Clem J
PSV
Santy

mayo/marmot
genny
Stagg737

Gikkle
Shinichi

Sorry to drop a list and run, but I'll answer any questions when I can.

^When it's looking like the yeet is Achro vs. Gikkle w/moon on Shinichi. There's really not much from Moon before this post on this particular day, that would explain the difference between the reads list she dropped the day before. There's also a post where she says her reads haven't changed that much from the day before but i forgot to quote that.

It's a combo of his vote near EOD and his suss on my claim. He put mkg ahead of Shinichi, and said something like "mkg, convince me on Shinichi" but not vice versa, when they were both in his vote pool. I feel like that gives him a lot of partner equity in a wolf!Shinichi world.

Seeing his explanation today that it was because mkg was present and Shinichi was absent, and he wanted to avoid voting someone who couldn't claim, makes sense I suppose. And a town!Shinichi world alleviates most of my concerns. (Except the suss on my claim, which we've seen town can do via Spacecamp's flip, so IDK.)

^This is moon's answer to PSV's question about why Gikkle dropped like a rock on Moon's reads list

Day 2 Yeet Tally
Shini (1) - Stagg 48
Clem (1) - Gikkle 39
Achro (3) - PSV 34, Zenge 67, Dubz 62
Stagg (1) - Santy 125
moon () -
Gikkle (4) - samac 117, Achro 110, Clem 69, moon 35

10/13
Missing: genny 11, marmot 22, Shini 0
yeet close in ~1 hour

^I find this tally very interesting.

 

[SportPonies]

I believe it was a real breadcrumb. The post pinged me enough to realize there was something weird about it, I just didn’t realize it was pr awkwardness rather than wolfy awkwardness. It makes a lot of sense as a breadcrumb

what made you backpedal off of "moon is PR awkward" onto "moon is wolf"
I assume I will catch up and find my answer but I'm asking in case I don't.

 

[SportPonies]

^I'm the her in this quote.

^Pushing Zenges about Shinichi



^Directed to Zenge

^Up for yeet, loses track of time, whoops.

^When it's looking like the yeet is Achro vs. Gikkle w/moon on Shinichi. There's really not much from Moon before this post on this particular day, that would explain the difference between the reads list she dropped the day before. There's also a post where she says her reads haven't changed that much from the day before but i forgot to quote that.

^This is moon's answer to PSV's question about why Gikkle dropped like a rock on Moon's reads list

^I find this tally very interesting.

can you TLDR what point you're making here about whom?

 

[genny]

what made you backpedal off of "moon is PR awkward" onto "moon is wolf"
I assume I will catch up and find my answer but I'm asking in case I don't.

i'm town 3x blocker and "doctor" moon can't exist in the same setup as inventor santy and i.

 

[genny]

can you TLDR what point you're making here about whom?

i might want to vote achro

 

[SportPonies]

i'm town 3x blocker and "doctor" moon can't exist in the same setup as inventor santy and i.

okay, so you still found the claim believable because Santy was still alive at that time.

 

[SportPonies]

i might want to vote achro

I think I could come around to this

 

[Zenge142]

and "doctor" moon

The quotes make it sound like Moon was hawking essential oils to cure Lyme’s Disease 🤣

 

[SportPonies]

The quotes make it sound like Moon was hawking essential oils to cure Lyme’s Disease 🤣

hemp oil and rose quartz

 

[genny]

The quotes make it sound like Moon was hawking essential oils to cure Lyme’s Disease 🤣

Dr. Moon's Tincture to Ward Off Lycanthropy (active ingredient: arsenic)

 

[SportPonies]

We need another Pokemon Redux where I'm not the goddamn fisherman with 6 magikarp...

This is probably still the best role I've ever written

 

[genny]

I think I could come around to this

i just don't want it to be true. achro's wim post felt pure.

 

[SportPonies]

wim post

their what now

 

[Zenge142]

i just don't want it to be true. achro's wim post felt pure.

I think it is pure.

 

[SportPonies]

I don't remember why I was reading achro village because the notes that I jotted down are the following:

"Achro- #718- vil- wolf wold be [illegible]
#729 - wut"

 

[samac]

I am really not used to you being this ~collaborative~ and that's what has been nagging me most

I’ve got the award for best team player once lol

 

[SportPonies]

I’ve got the award for best team player once lol

you also got the award for best wolf once, so

 

[genny]

their what now

Now that I know I wasn't a ******* I have regained my wim

Game over tbh

^the energy around this post is definitely reinvigorated

 

[samac]

you also got the award for best wolf once, so

I don’t know whether that means my wolf play is bad or you’re just paying mentioning my other achievements because if it’s the second thanks!

 

[SportPonies]

^the energy around this post is definitely reinvigorated

oh

hmm.

 

[SportPonies]

I don’t know whether that means my wolf play is bad or you’re just paying mentioning my other achievements because if it’s the second thanks!

I actually don't think the point I was making makes any sense tbh.

 

[samac]

I actually don't think the point I was making makes any sense tbh.

Oh okay I’ll just take you singing my praises then 😛

 

[genny]

unvote genny

 

[SportPonies]

So the last time I played with Moon they were pretty inquisitive and prodding in how they talked with people, from memory. Here I felt like they were just like leaving me alone a lot and not really curious about my motives or anything.

i don't like it when people aren't curious about me by nature, as I am a bit of an infamously strong wolf for those who have seen my wolf game. You don't exactly beat me by playing passive as moon did.

hmm

@genny I already developed my thoughts on the matter, but do you think that w!Achro would've come out of the gate placing a vote on a packmate?

 

[SportPonies]

Basically mafia is a puzzle to me. Moon being a doctor fits into what I was seeing yesterday that I ascribed to a scum rand so I reset my suspicion of moon based off of that. It's not like they are confirmed town to me or anything, but that puzzle piece was given an explanation that checks out from my experience so I begin again feeling roughly neutral on Moon socially and now needing a more fleshed out world to want to pierce a protection claim early game.

It's not complicated fmpov.

I can't decide if it would make sense for Achro to so heavily defend moon after the reveal, rather than let moon coast on a doctor claim.

 

[samac]

hmm

@genny I already developed my thoughts on the matter, but do you think that w!Achro would've come out of the gate placing a vote on a packmate?

Is genny arguing a wold Achro world?

 

[SportPonies]

Is genny arguing a wold Achro world?

that's the impression I got, unless you're reading her posts differently than mine.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Day 3 Yeet Tally
Gikkle () -
No Yeet (1) - Achro 82
Dubz (2) - Sporty 80, samac 83
moon (3) - Zenge 56, Dubz 77, Clem 57
Zenge (1) - marmot 37
genny (1) - moon 3

8/11
yeet close in ~2.5 hours

 

[genny]

hmm

@genny I already developed my thoughts on the matter, but do you think that w!Achro would've come out of the gate placing a vote on a packmate?

i don't know? i haven't played with achro before, only know by reputation that they're a good player. and they said somewhere in this game that their wolf play is the stuff of nightmares. i guess it depends on how bold they really are: to throw down an early vote on a packmate knowing that village is fickle and can be lead to stumble away from a correct vote at the last minute. i do feel like santy put some pressure there for achro to evaluate moon critically, so if achro just shrugged it off, that probably would have been pairing for them.

 

[genny]

Is genny arguing a wold Achro world?

i'm dabbling in it. gikkle has made some good points.

 

[SportPonies]

i don't know? i haven't played with achro before, only know by reputation that they're a good player. and they said somewhere in this game that their wolf play is the stuff of nightmares. i guess it depends on how bold they really are: to throw down an early vote on a packmate knowing that village is fickle and can be lead to stumble away from a correct vote at the last minute. i do feel like santy put some pressure there for achro to evaluate moon critically, so if achro just shrugged it off, that probably would have been pairing for them.

I haven't played with them either. I was asking from a theoretical standpoint rather than a meta-based one.

That isn't where the vote ended the day so I'm mulling it over but I think it's too WIFOM to be spending too much time on.

 

[SportPonies]

If we're not killing Moon, gikkle is probably my second choice

noted

 

[genny]

i should probably actually read all of today instead of just snippets

 

[SportPonies]

oh good it's not just me feeling better about Clem today

How do you feel about Clem today?

 

[genny]

How do you feel about Clem today?

let me read today first lol

 

[SportPonies]

Ehhh

They were about even. I didn't really think either of them were likely to flip scum. Tbh moonster claiming doctor kind of threw me for a loop in terms of who to vote, and I didn't have time to recalibrate.

I don't really understand why you'd sit on either vote if you genuinely thought they both were village.

 

[SportPonies]

Basically mafia is a puzzle to me. Moon being a doctor fits into what I was seeing yesterday that I ascribed to a scum rand so I reset my suspicion of moon based off of that. It's not like they are confirmed town to me or anything, but that puzzle piece was given an explanation that checks out from my experience so I begin again feeling roughly neutral on Moon socially and now needing a more fleshed out world to want to pierce a protection claim early game.

It's not complicated fmpov.

Also from town!achro I expect a more... Wide? Aproach to the game and solving, trying to work together. And here it feels like you are / picking topics / rather than form a view and work on the solve. Like how you progressed from Zenge>Moon>Dubz is rather pingy.
What you had at the start of finding towns which were mostly the consensus takes just seemed to disappear in the second half of D1 and now D2

Basically your arguments you cite against me have no resolution in reality.

"Your reaction seemed fake"

Well, it wasn't.

"I thought your progression was pingy"

Well, that was my natural progression.

"I thought you'd play differently as town"

Well, I am town and am playing how I am playing.

So like, you have chosen arguments that are based on feels and that are incorrect. I really have no way to counter them. So just enjoy killing me and enjoy my town flip I guess.

I don't really like this argument, but I take personal offense to "no u" responses to tone reads

 

[SportPonies]

I don't really understand why you'd sit on either vote if you genuinely thought they both were village.

I see that I'm not the only one who thought this:

I really don’t like the progression in recent posts. It felt like your reads list is just trying to be with thread consensus. And then I cringed at you saying they’re the least towny while in a different breath saying they’re likely to flip village.
It feels like a perspective slip.

I’m looking forward to this re evaluation as Shinichi being the least town is not compatible with “I didn’t think they’d flip wolf”.

 

[SportPonies]

I'm on page 26 (note to self).

I did reach PSV's "wolf tell" in the wild and now that I've read the post, I'm not actually sure if it's a wolf tell with the given context it's in. It's like, hedging on not-game-related so hmm.

 

[SportPonies]

I kinda want to vote Gekkie

 

[samac]

I kinda want to vote Gekkie

So have any of the real time stuff made you feel better about follow