Maxillofacial (oncology,microvascular,reconstructive) fellowships

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Dr.Millisevert

Dr.Millisevert

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I thought I would start a list of recon fellowships available to OMFS. If you have information on any of these progams including stipend, volume, and types of cases a fellow completes then please copy, edit, and past the info back into the thread. Thanks! 👍


UCSF
Chair: Anthony Pogrel, MB, BDS, FACS, FRCS
Director: Brian L. Schmidt, DDS, MD , PhD, FACS
Length: 1 year
Stipend: $57,220

Oregon
Director: Eric J. Dierks, MD, DMD, FACS

Knoxville
Director: Eric R. Carlson, DMD, MD, FACS

Miami
Director: Robert E. Marx, DDS

Maryland
Director: Robert A. Ord, MBBCh, BDS, FRCS, FACS
Length: 2 years

Michigan
Director: Brent B. Ward DDS, MD, FACS
Length: 1-2 years

Jacksonville, FL
Director: Rui P. Fernandes, MD, DMD, FACS

John Hunter Hospital - Newcastle, Australia
Director: Gary Hoffman, MBBS, BDS, PhD, FRACDS (OMS), FACS

Royal Prince Alfred Hospital - Sydney, Australia
Director: Kerwin Shannon, MBBS, FRACS
Takes both ENT and OMFS grads (current fellow is an OMFS from the UK)

Queensland University - Brisbane, Australia
Director: Barbara Woodhouse, MBBS, BDS, FRACDS (OMS), FADI, FICD

John Radcliffe Hospital - Oxford, UK
Director: Stephen Watt-Smith, MBBS, BDS, FRCS (OMFS)

University Hospital Aintree - Liverpool. UK
Director: S. N. Rogers, MBChB, BDS, FRCS (OMFS)

University Hospital Birmingham - Birmingham, UK
Director: Keith Webster, MBChB, BDS, FRCS (OMFS)

Addenbrooks hospital - Cambridge, UK
Director: David M Adlam, MBBS, BDS, FRCS (OMFS)

Please add to the list if you are aware of other programs I haven't listed.
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Thank you for starting this list. I would also like to see one started for Craniofacial. I just got an email from Royal Hospital of Melbourne tating they only take Plastic Surgery Residents. Well I know Horswell and Smith both completed a fellowship there so I am confused, but that is why we can start a list.
 
So I know the Oregon fellowship is mainly Oncology, but there is some cosmetics and trauma. I spoke to dierks and found this out. Potter is probably going to retire soon but that program is so strong it wont matter. This fellowship is great for someone who wants Oncology. 60 neck dissection, several thyroids/parathy
about 30 free flaps, few clefts, few cosmetics, few trauma. You have to work with the chief on the residency program so might have some overlap.
 
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Xigris14 said:
Thank you for starting this list. I would also like to see one started for Craniofacial. I just got an email from Royal Hospital of Melbourne tating they only take Plastic Surgery Residents. Well I know Horswell and Smith both completed a fellowship there so I am confused, but that is why we can start a list.
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I agree we should start a similar list for craniofacial.

This doesn't sound right regarding RCH melb. I can name at least 5 American OMFS off the top of my head who have completed this fellowship. Maybe you should contact Smith or Sullivan at Oklahoma or Horswell and ask them for their opinion and more details.

By the way.. there is a woman who works at RCH melb: Jocelyn Shand, MBBS, BDS, MDSc, FRACDS, FACS: She did the Pitt craniofacial fellowship (Costello fellow). So she would be another person in Melb you should contact for more info. It sounds like you spoke to the wrong peson. 🙂 Good luck! let me know what you find out. 👍
 
No I just received a email from the Royal Hospital stating they no longer take OMFS for the fellowship only Plastics. Horswell confirmed this today.

Anyway, dont forget Ghali at LSU. There is currently a fellow there that did a fellowship at UCSF and now with Ghali doing microvascular stuff. Sounds like he has a good experiencewith ablative surgery but must be there for the microvascular with Kim.
 
Xigris14 said:
No I just received a email from the Royal Hospital stating they no longer take OMFS for the fellowship only Plastics. Horswell confirmed this today.
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Wow.. that's news to me. Again, before you give up on Melb.. I would at least want to speak to an OMFS (not Plastics or some secretary) at RCH to double confirm.

Email one of these people for more info:

Andrew Heggie, MBBS, BDS, MDSc, FRACDS, FACS
Email: [email protected]

Timothy Probert, MBBS, BDS, MDSc, FRACDS, FACS
Phone: +613 9347 3788
Email: [email protected]

Jocelyn Shand, MBBS, BDS, MDSc, FRACDS, FACS
Phone: +613 9654 4844
Email: [email protected]


All of these are good people to speak with in general, they are all Australian/New Zealand trained and have all completed fellowships in the US.

Heggie: 2 years in Seattle (orthognathic/TMJ/Trauma)
Probert: 1 year at LSU (recon/cleft), then a cosmetic fellowship in Utah
Shand: 1 year in Oklahoma doing cleft/craniofacial with Smith and Sullivan, and 1 year craniofacial fellowship at Pitt with Costello.
 
Also, I don't know if they take a fellow, but I've heard that they do quite a bit of cleft/craniofacial stuff at Dalhousie OMFS (more so than any other program in Canada). Might be worth contacting them and asking.

Chair: David Precious, DDS, MSc, FRCD (C) (OMS)
Email: [email protected]
Phone: (902) 494-2274
 
Xigris14 said:
So I know the Oregon fellowship is mainly Oncology, but there is some cosmetics and trauma. I spoke to dierks and found this out. Potter is probably going to retire soon but that program is so strong it wont matter. This fellowship is great for someone who wants Oncology. 60 neck dissection, several thyroids/parathy
about 30 free flaps, few clefts, few cosmetics, few trauma. You have to work with the chief on the residency program so might have some overlap.
Click to expand...

A lot of the Australian programs tend to do a lot of local flaps for skin cancer too. (...remember where the hole in the ozone is) 🙂
 
thanks for the info. I have spoken to the attendings at royal hospital and it is true. Well, I will be seeking fellowships anyways in USA. Costello or Horswell.

Good luck millisevert with Onc. It sounds like you are pursuing this. Jax has a up and coming fellowship. I think there, maryland, and oregon would be my favorite.
Later
 
the microvascular fellow at Jax this year is single degree.
 
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I asked this question in an earlier thread and didn't get a response, so I'm reposting it here.


For those who attended 4 year programs with the MD option.

In order to get your MD subsequently licensed you must complete another 1-2 years of ACGME accredited training.

Is it possible to say do a 2-year ACGME accredited H/N recon fellowship or something similar (that is of more interest to most OMFS graduates) instead of doing another 1-2 years of Anesth or Gen surg? If so, how would you go about finding a position like this.. would you contact American H/N society? Would you have to do a H/N fellowship associated with an ENT or Gen surg program or .... Do you think it would in anyway be possible to do one of the CODA approved H/N (Maryland, Miami, UCSF, Mich, Jax, etc) and also get ACGME credit for it as well? I know many 6-year OMFS programs allow many months of OMFS (UPenn for example) to be technically counted towards your 2-year ACGME gen surg cert, I didn't know if something similar would be possible with a CODA fellowship. I think most in this position would prefer to spend those extra years at least associated with an OMS program instead of gen surg if at all possible.


Thanks 👍
 
It looks like the Jacksonville OMFS Microvascular fellowship is ACGME approved: Link
 
Doc Milisevert I don't think anyone is ignoring your question i just dont think anyone knows. I would think you would have to ask the directors of the fellowships/programs and they in turn would have to ask their respective department of surgery. If i were to guess i would say no. I would think for a surgery PGY1 year the department of surgery would want you as their own for at least part to maybe most of the year. Now if you needed a PGY2 surgery year i bet most H&N fellowships would be able to get that for ya. Again, i will qualify this as completely my own guess, without anything to back it up at all. Good luck to ya...
 
north2southOMFS said:
Doc Milisevert I don't think anyone is ignoring your question i just dont think anyone knows. I would think you would have to ask the directors of the fellowships/programs and they in turn would have to ask their respective department of surgery. If i were to guess i would say no. I would think for a surgery PGY1 year the department of surgery would want you as their own for at least part to maybe most of the year. Now if you needed a PGY2 surgery year i bet most H&N fellowships would be able to get that for ya. Again, i will qualify this as completely my own guess, without anything to back it up at all. Good luck to ya...
Click to expand...

Thanks
 
Dr.Millisevert said:
It looks like the Jacksonville OMFS Microvascular fellowship is ACGME approved: Link
Click to expand...

I would be very surprised if you actually get ACGME post graduate credit for an OMS micro/oncology year. I understand some of these fellowships have ACGME funding/stipend (even Dierks' fellowship i think as of recently) but that doesn't mean it'll count towards your medical license unless you have some sort of a deal with the institution (such as the deal some programs have that give them 1 year Gen Surg credit for 6 months GS)
 
scalpel2008 said:
I would be very surprised if you actually get ACGME post graduate credit for an OMS micro/oncology year. I understand some of these fellowships have ACGME funding/stipend (even Dierks' fellowship i think as of recently) but that doesn't mean it'll count towards your medical license unless you have some sort of a deal with the institution (such as the deal some programs have that give them 1 year Gen Surg credit for 6 months GS)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I would hope that would be possible. I suppose 1st choice would be to see if one of these programs could help you out with ACGME credit, if not.. 2nd choice would be to apply for an ACGME fellowship through the H/N society. 👍

Just as an example: I know that in the US there are handful of surgery programs and fellowships that are both accredited by the American Osteopathic Assoc (AOA) as well as ACGME for DO graduates. So, I don't see why the CODA accredited fellowships couldn't also be dual accredited with ACGME. Do you think this would be helpful for OMFS as a specialty? thoughts?
 
Dr.Millisevert said:
Yeah, I would hope that would be possible. I suppose 1st choice would be to see if one of these programs could help you out with ACGME credit, if not.. 2nd choice would be to apply for an ACGME fellowship through the H/N society. 👍

Just as an example: I know that in the US there are handful of surgery programs and fellowships that are both accredited by the American Osteopathic Assoc (AOA) as well as ACGME for DO graduates. So, I don't see why the CODA accredited fellowships couldn't also be dual accredited with ACGME. Do you think this would be helpful for OMFS as a specialty? thoughts?
Click to expand...

The problem is that as long as the ACGME, specifically the ENT and plastics folks look at OMS as dentists who do micro/oncology and cosmetic sx, it'll remain a tremendous uphill battle to consider an OMS micro/oncology fellowship equivalent to those accredited by the AHNS or ACGME. Since we are a dental specialty and are governed by a dental entity (CODA), the ACGME doesn't want to get involved except to give us a medical license when we complete a year of gen surg. Maybe this will change as the number and quality of fellowships we offer improve. In reality the bottomline is still that OMS micro/oncology fellowships still do not provide near the number of free flaps some of the oto fellowships provide. 25-30 free flaps is a good number but by no means impressive. But I certainly think this is a relatively new thing for us and that as long as folks like you are interested in these fellowships and pursue academia, our strength will increase with numbers. We need the numbers and make it clear that we would like to collaborate rather than fight the oto/plastics folks before we can approach the acgme to consider equivalency. That's my opinion.
 
scalpel2008 said:
In reality the bottomline is still that OMS micro/oncology fellowships still do not provide near the number of free flaps some of the oto fellowships provide. 25-30 free flaps is a good number but by no means impressive. .
Click to expand...


That's a good point... Is this 25-30 flaps a year a low, high, or average number for the microvascular fellowships out there... For that matter, for the programs that have "significant" resident exposure to free flaps as a primary service, what kind of numbers are they cranking out?
 
IcedOMFS said:
That's a good point... Is this 25-30 flaps a year a low, high, or average number for the microvascular fellowships out there... For that matter, for the programs that have "significant" resident exposure to free flaps as a primary service, what kind of numbers are they cranking out?
Click to expand...

Just FYI....there is a tremendous range with the ENT fellowship. They range anywhere from roughly 25-100 per year.
 
IcedOMFS said:
That's a good point... Is this 25-30 flaps a year a low, high, or average number for the microvascular fellowships out there... For that matter, for the programs that have "significant" resident exposure to free flaps as a primary service, what kind of numbers are they cranking out?
Click to expand...

when our service was doing free flaps, we were doing about 20 a year and were about to start a fellowship but our staff left. I think that 25-30 is on the higher side for OMS fellowships. I know of ENT residents whose service does 60-70 a year w/o fellows. It will be interesting to see how this new Hirsch NYU fellowship turns out that sends you to India for 6 months because that program in India cranks out a lot of free flaps a year (head and neck cancer is the most common cancer in India). Infact that India program has a badass fellowship for 3 years that trains you in a lot of craniofacial, cosmetic, and especially head and neck cancer although they say you need to be ent or plastics. They also take overseas people for shorter periods of time i.e. a few months and looks like Rui Fernandes did that because they have a list surgeons who did that. I've always been impressed with Neal Futrans talks at all the AO meetings and I always got the impressions he does >100/year x many years...now thats a lot of flaps. He is an OMS/ENT trained guy. I was surprised that the Dierks' fellows don't get much training in flap harvest, just the ablation and inset.
http://www.healthecareers.com/jobs/comprehensive-oral-and-head-and-neck-oncology/758489.htm
 
scalpel2008 said:
The problem is that as long as the ACGME, specifically the ENT and plastics folks look at OMS as dentists who do micro/oncology and cosmetic sx, it'll remain a tremendous uphill battle to consider an OMS micro/oncology fellowship equivalent to those accredited by the AHNS or ACGME. Since we are a dental specialty and are governed by a dental entity (CODA), the ACGME doesn't want to get involved except to give us a medical license when we complete a year of gen surg. Maybe this will change as the number and quality of fellowships we offer improve. In reality the bottomline is still that OMS micro/oncology fellowships still do not provide near the number of free flaps some of the oto fellowships provide. 25-30 free flaps is a good number but by no means impressive. But I certainly think this is a relatively new thing for us and that as long as folks like you are interested in these fellowships and pursue academia, our strength will increase with numbers. We need the numbers and make it clear that we would like to collaborate rather than fight the oto/plastics folks before we can approach the acgme to consider equivalency. That's my opinion.
Click to expand...
I completely agree with everything you've stated here. I do agree that any CODA fellowship should be able to offer an OMFS equal to or greater the quantity and quality of cases as any ACGME program. Also, I agree that we need more fellowship trained MaxFacs going into academia!

Again I refer to the analogy of Osteopathic programs in the US. I wonder if their expansion into surgical subspecialties in the United States over the past 30-40 years might actually inadvertently help to further the specialty of OMFS. I say this because the majority of these programs are NOT accredited by ACGME, but instead by AOA. If (for example) an Osteopathic trained Plastic surgeon can obtain hospital privileges for the same procedures and are considered equivalent in every way to an ACGME trained Plastic Surgeon. I don't see how they can state that training must be ACGME accredited, or that CODA accreditation could not be equivalent when an AOA one is.
👍
 
scalpel2008, you mentioned fellowship experience in India... After obtaining your residency certificate and ABOMS certification... When presenting your logbook to a hospital to obtain privileges, etc. Does it matter much where your cases were completed? Have you ever heard of anyone having problems because their fellowship was not completed in US, Canada, Australia, etc?

Would it be better to have completed a fellowship in (US, Can, Aus) and have 30 cases, or would it be better to have completed your training in India and have 90-110?




Also, more and more fellowship trained OMFS are obtaining Fellowship with the American College of Surgeons (FACS). Has this helped them much with the politics of micro/oncology, craniofacial, and cosmetics? When will OMFS have their own subcommittee within the ACS? 🙂

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery
 
As an aside.. even if you haven't completed a UK OMFS program. If you can find 3 OMFS who are currently registered in the UK to "sponsor" you... you can then be eligible to sit the Fellowship exams of the Royal College of Surgeons and obtain your FRCS (OMFS).

Might help if you are a current resident under Ord or Pogrel. 🙂
 
Dr.Millisevert said:
scalpel2008, you mentioned fellowship experience in India... After obtaining your residency certificate and ABOMS certification... When presenting your logbook to a hospital to obtain privileges, etc. Does it matter much where your cases were completed? Have you ever heard of anyone having problems because their fellowship was not completed in US, Canada, Australia, etc?

Would it be better to have completed a fellowship in (US, Can, Aus) and have 30 cases, or would it be better to have completed your training in India and have 90-110?




Also, more and more fellowship trained OMFS are obtaining Fellowship with the American College of Surgeons (FACS). Has this helped them much with the politics of micro/oncology, craniofacial, and cosmetics? When will OMFS have their own subcommittee within the ACS? 🙂

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery
Click to expand...

This institution in India is supposedly top notch and quite well known. I would imagine that hospitals would recognize >100 flaps done there as a strong number regardless of the location as long as you have the ability the present operative logs/dictations. If i'm not mistaken you really don't need all that many flaps to actually get priveleges (I've seen numbers like 10 flaps over 24 months etc). But priveleges and competence don't necessarily correlate as you well know. Strictly from a training perspective, can you imagine how much better you'd be if you did 85 flaps on your own during fellowship rather than 15 (assuming you are walked through the first ten and allowed to do the rest). Think about any procedure you have done a hundred times and you can probably do that half asleep.
I'm pretty good friends with a cosmetics guy who just got his FACS. It seems like more and more OMS are doing this. The good thing is that this sems to be more dependent on the general surgeons rather than our perceived competetion i.e ent/plastics. i know the cosmetics guy essentially had to get recommended by our chair of surgery (since this where he did his gen surg) and he keeps up with his ATLS etc (which most OMS don't once they get done with residency).
Also, I do agree that it makes sense that if AOA can be equivalent with ACGME in some regards that maybe one day if CODA is able to convince the ACGME that a lot of the OMS (esp the fellowship trained ones) are technically damn good at what they do, they might work something out. Until then, its tough. There isn't enough reason for the ADA to fight for this since we only make up a very small subset of the ADA and it really wouldn't benefit them much. I do think and am surprised at how much clout the ADA and dentistry have politically so you never know. If they didn't we would have some major medicaid requirements and price caps because lets face it, 4 wizzies shouldn't compensate as much as a bowel resection. But this isn't so much a political thing as it is an ego thing.
 
scalpel2008 said:
I would imagine that hospitals would recognize >100 flaps done there as a strong number regardless of the location as long as you have the ability the present operative logs/dictations.

I'm pretty good friends with a cosmetics guy who just got his FACS. It seems like more and more OMS are doing this.
... i know the cosmetics guy essentially had to get recommended by our chair of surgery.
Click to expand...

agreed.

So in order to obtain your FACS, you just have to be recommended by a current ACS gen surg Fellow?
 
scalpel2008 said:
This institution in India is supposedly top notch and quite well known. I would imagine that hospitals would recognize >100 flaps done there as a strong number regardless of the location as long as you have the ability the present operative logs/dictations. If i'm not mistaken you really don't need all that many flaps to actually get priveleges (I've seen numbers like 10 flaps over 24 months etc). But priveleges and competence don't necessarily correlate as you well know. Strictly from a training perspective, can you imagine how much better you'd be if you did 85 flaps on your own during fellowship rather than 15 (assuming you are walked through the first ten and allowed to do the rest). Think about any procedure you have done a hundred times and you can probably do that half asleep.
I'm pretty good friends with a cosmetics guy who just got his FACS. It seems like more and more OMS are doing this. The good thing is that this sems to be more dependent on the general surgeons rather than our perceived competetion i.e ent/plastics. i know the cosmetics guy essentially had to get recommended by our chair of surgery (since this where he did his gen surg) and he keeps up with his ATLS etc (which most OMS don't once they get done with residency).
If they didn't we would have some major medicaid requirements and price caps because lets face it, 4 wizzies shouldn't compensate as much as a bowel resection. But this isn't so much a political thing as it is an ego thing.
Click to expand...


I agree that 100 flaps in India is better than 20 flaps in the US... Many surgeons here do more clefts in foreign countries than they do on home soil too...

I still wonder how we can compete, when some plastics programs do 5 free flaps a week or more... Mind you a fibula with bone for mandibular recon is different than doing an ALT for covering a skin defect somewhere... But in order for North American OMFS to get to levels that the specialty is at in Europe and the UK, we need people getting into this stuff... And honestly, if you can do a neck dissection or a parotidectomy, things like cosmetic rhytidectomy or bleph is nothing in comparison...

As for the billing issue... Our remuneration for thirds is based on GP dentist fees, which for the most part are based on estimated chair time and overhead. A specialist, who performs at a higher standard than a GP, should legitimately be able to bill more for same procedure, particularly under some form of sedation/GA... For the most part, not getting your wisdom teeth out is not going to kill you, and so is considered a "luxury" along with most of dentistry... Hence, bill away. The issue of bowel resection billing becomes irrelevant (though I agree that not getting your colon cancer out WILL probably kill you...)
 
IcedOMFS said:
I agree that 100 flaps in India is better than 20 flaps in the US... Many surgeons here do more clefts in foreign countries than they do on home soil too...

I still wonder how we can compete, when some plastics programs do 5 free flaps a week or more... Mind you a fibula with bone for mandibular recon is different than doing an ALT for covering a skin defect somewhere... But in order for North American OMFS to get to levels that the specialty is at in Europe and the UK, we need people getting into this stuff.
Click to expand...

agreed👍

However, there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to develop fellowship programs for OMFS in the US with that sort of caseload.

...If we don't we're going to risk the loss of the "maxillofacial" scope of OMS in the United States, and it will be our own fault.. because too many were lured by the $$ of yanking teeth all day in private. 🙁

We need to have more people completeing fellowships in Microvascular/Oncology, Craniofacial, and Cosmetic, and then heading back to spend the next few years teaching and passing it on to the next generation.

I like this article: (I think this is the right one)
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0278239103001587
Where Hupp suggested the idea of having a student loan forgiveness program for those who choose an OMFS academic career. What a great idea!
 
Millisevert, are you in the US or Europe? I thought you were in the USA and I'm confused why a US oral surgeon would be interested in FRCS.
 
toofache32 said:
Millisevert, are you in the US or Europe? I thought you were in the USA and I'm confused why a US oral surgeon would be interested in FRCS.
Click to expand...

Neither... I'm from Aus/NZ, but keen to get experience in US (great trauma) and UK (great H/N). I want to go into academics and I feel the more experience you have (and qualifications) the more you will be able to contribute back to an OMS training program and to the specialty.

This is why I also feel it wouldn't hurt for a US oral (and "Maxillofacial") surgeon to do a fellowship in the (UK, Aus, etc) and obtain their equivalent Fellowship as well. (esp if they wanted to teach)👍

Many of the better (expanded scope) US OMS programs have faculty with one or more of the following: FACS, FRCS, FRACDS, FRCS(C), etc.
 
Dr.Millisevert said:
agreed👍

However, there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to develop fellowship programs for OMFS in the US with that sort of caseload.

...If we don't we're going to risk the loss of the "maxillofacial" scope of OMS in the United States, and it will be our own fault.. because too many were lured by the $$ of yanking teeth all day in private. 🙁

We need to have more people completeing fellowships in Microvascular/Oncology, Craniofacial, and Cosmetic, and then heading back to spend the next few years teaching and passing it on to the next generation.

I like this article: (I think this is the right one)
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0278239103001587
Where Hupp suggested the idea of having a student loan forgiveness program for those who choose an OMFS academic career. What a great idea!
Click to expand...

I agree with what you say. I find it even more ridiculous that there are plenty of OMS in private practice that even refuse to do trauma. Trauma is easy for us. If every OMS did his or her share of trauma call, it would make it so much easier on the entire OMS community. As most of you all see, we see A LOT of trauma that comes in as transfers from long distances. Not only is it a shame but its a waste of resources. For example, last night I had to poke my head in to see an uncomplicated orbital floor fracture that got transfered to one of our hospitals from over 2 hours away. It was a 10 minute consult for me but because the oms/ent/plastics or whoever in that town didn't see him, we had to spend another workup at a level 1 trauma center hospital for an isolated orbital floor fracture. We see this ALL the time and do most of you guys. I'm done in 4.9 months and I know that the practices I'm looking at are full scope and the OMS are the "face guys" in town. That's what we need.
 
Question about getting into a fellowship? What criteria to they use during the selection process? Do they look at grades (med school and dental school), test scores (dental boards and medical boards), more objective things or is it more about where you trained and your letters of recommendation? Just wondering if I need to kick a** on my USMLE to keep this option open or if they even care. Thanks.
 
Shuckin 3rds said:
Question about getting into a fellowship? What criteria to they use during the selection process? Do they look at grades (med school and dental school), test scores (dental boards and medical boards), more objective things or is it more about where you trained and your letters of recommendation? Just wondering if I need to kick a** on my USMLE to keep this option open or if they even care. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on the program. There was one that asked me for dental school transcripts, none asked for USMLE scores or NBDE scores. More than anything, I think they want good letters from your faculty. Publications are a big plus also.
 
On the American Head & Neck Surgery Society website they list that their fellows must participate in the work up of a minimum of 200 h&n cancer pts, and must be the "operating or teaching surgeon" for a minimum of 100 of these cases. They also list that for a fellowship to be approved the program must have at least 2 cancer surgeons and must take on 150 new cases per year over a 5 year period.

This seems very high to me, does anyone know what the average numbers are within OMS? Which fellowships have the highest numbers out there?
 
MAXILLOFACIAL2B said:
On the American Head & Neck Surgery Society website they list that their fellows must participate in the work up of a minimum of 200 h&n cancer pts, and must be the "operating or teaching surgeon" for a minimum of 100 of these cases. They also list that for a fellowship to be approved the program must have at least 2 cancer surgeons and must take on 150 new cases per year over a 5 year period.

This seems very high to me, does anyone know what the average numbers are within OMS? Which fellowships have the highest numbers out there?
Click to expand...

Agree. It would be nice if they were able to have one of the CODA accredited H/N fellowships also approved by the American H/N society. 👍 Maybe someone could suggest this idea to the Program director of some of these programs.
 
MAXILLOFACIAL2B said:
On the American Head & Neck Surgery Society website they list that their fellows must participate in the work up of a minimum of 200 h&n cancer pts, and must be the "operating or teaching surgeon" for a minimum of 100 of these cases. They also list that for a fellowship to be approved the program must have at least 2 cancer surgeons and must take on 150 new cases per year over a 5 year period.

This seems very high to me, does anyone know what the average numbers are within OMS? Which fellowships have the highest numbers out there?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's as high as it seems when you consider ENTs are increasingly becoming "screening" physicians for laryngeal cancers which will only get chemo/xrt since outcomes are similar...in other words, not all these will get operated. Also the 100 "cases" can be several in one operation. One for the resection, one for the neck dissection, and one for the pec/fibula or whatever. Regardless, I think the AHNS fellowships generally have higher numbers still.
 
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