MCAT 4th time?

[SlowTwitch]

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Here's the dilemma:

Graduated May 2012, didn't apply due to desire to take gap year, landed fantastic research assistantship at the Mayo Clinic. Began application June 2012 submitted late September (I know, first mistake...), applied very selectively within the Chicagoland area (IL resident). Received 2 interviews/7 schools all MD, currently waitlisted. I am deciding to start shoveling coal in my application train to get it chugging and the greatest problem is my verbal score.

Needing some input if 4th MCAT is a bad idea. I've noted a strong improvement in my practice sections that I have been taking, and due to continuous reading/writing for my lab, I'm positive my 4-8V scores can become 10+. I'm very intentional about attending a school in Chicago (yes, DOs/Midwestern will be on the list next year, but its $$$$!), so I'm wondering what UIC, Rush, Loyola, Rosalind Franklin, IU (Gary), maybe even Wisconsin would think about 4 MCATs. (Hopeful thinking, but if i get a 36+, would Northwestern/Pritzker write me off automatically w/ 4 MCATs?) Stats:

MCAT April 2011: 9P, 8V, 8B (25 comp)
MCAT August 2011: 10P, 4V, 10B (24 comp)
MCAT April 2012: 11P, 6V, 11B (28 comp)
??MCAT Aug 2013???

cGPA: 3.82
sGPA: 3.82

Strong ECs:
-800+hrs shadowing
-international medical experience (Ecuador, Africa)
-looking at 2 years experience in lab research @ Mayo (publication/poster presentation under my belt)
-500+hrs college community volunteering
-strong leadership experience
-3 summers experience w/ disability volunteering
-knocked out bad freshman year with 4.0s in 300-level bio classes sr year

Any opinions welcome. Thanks.

 

[The Beyonder]

Here's the dilemma:

Graduated May 2012, didn't apply due to desire to take gap year, landed fantastic research assistantship at the Mayo Clinic. Began application June 2012 submitted late September (I know, first mistake...), applied very selectively within the Chicagoland area (IL resident). Received 2 interviews/7 schools all MD, currently waitlisted. I am deciding to start shoveling coal in my application train to get it chugging and the greatest problem is my verbal score.

Needing some input if 4th MCAT is a bad idea. I've noted a strong improvement in my practice sections that I have been taking, and due to continuous reading/writing for my lab, I'm positive my 4-8V scores can become 10+. I'm very intentional about attending a school in Chicago (yes, DOs/Midwestern will be on the list next year, but its $$$$!), so I'm wondering what UIC, Rush, Loyola, Rosalind Franklin, IU (Gary), maybe even Wisconsin would think about 4 MCATs. (Hopeful thinking, but if i get a 36+, would Northwestern/Pritzker write me off automatically w/ 4 MCATs?) Stats:

MCAT April 2011: 9P, 8V, 8B (25 comp)
MCAT August 2011: 10P, 4V, 10B (24 comp)
MCAT April 2012: 11P, 6V, 11B (28 comp)
??MCAT Aug 2013???

cGPA: 3.82
sGPA: 3.82

Strong ECs:
-800+hrs shadowing
-international medical experience (Ecuador, Africa)
-looking at 2 years experience in lab research @ Mayo (publication/poster presentation under my belt)
-500+hrs college community volunteering
-strong leadership experience
-3 summers experience w/ disability volunteering
-knocked out bad freshman year with 4.0s in 300-level bio classes sr year

Any opinions welcome. Thanks.

Take a few practice tests. If your average is a three point improvement, do it.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Here's the dilemma:

Graduated May 2012, didn't apply due to desire to take gap year, landed fantastic research assistantship at the Mayo Clinic. Began application June 2012 submitted late September (I know, first mistake...), applied very selectively within the Chicagoland area (IL resident). Received 2 interviews/7 schools all MD, currently waitlisted. I am deciding to start shoveling coal in my application train to get it chugging and the greatest problem is my verbal score.

Needing some input if 4th MCAT is a bad idea. I've noted a strong improvement in my practice sections that I have been taking, and due to continuous reading/writing for my lab, I'm positive my 4-8V scores can become 10+. I'm very intentional about attending a school in Chicago (yes, DOs/Midwestern will be on the list next year, but its $$$$!), so I'm wondering what UIC, Rush, Loyola, Rosalind Franklin, IU (Gary), maybe even Wisconsin would think about 4 MCATs. (Hopeful thinking, but if i get a 36+, would Northwestern/Pritzker write me off automatically w/ 4 MCATs?) Stats:

MCAT April 2011: 9P, 8V, 8B (25 comp)
MCAT August 2011: 10P, 4V, 10B (24 comp)
MCAT April 2012: 11P, 6V, 11B (28 comp)
??MCAT Aug 2013???

cGPA: 3.82
sGPA: 3.82

Strong ECs:
-800+hrs shadowing
-international medical experience (Ecuador, Africa)
-looking at 2 years experience in lab research @ Mayo (publication/poster presentation under my belt)
-500+hrs college community volunteering
-strong leadership experience
-3 summers experience w/ disability volunteering
-knocked out bad freshman year with 4.0s in 300-level bio classes sr year

Any opinions welcome. Thanks.

If you don't score more than a 31+ your fourth time, this is a big mistake. A 3.82/3.82/28 is competitive for MD and definitely for DO. If you're aiming for a MD, you have to kill the next MCAT you take (31+)i

Btw, those are some incredible ECs. Nice job 🙂

 

[The Beyonder]

If you don't score more than a 31+ your fourth time, this is a big mistake. A 3.82/3.82/28 is competitive for MD and definitely for DO. If you're aiming for a MD, you have to kill the next MCAT you take (31+)i

Btw, those are some incredible ECs. Nice job 🙂

Also apply to more schools. If I were a re-applicant 20 would be my minimum.

 

[Dreamstoo]

also apply to more schools. If i were a re-applicant 20 would be my minimum.

+1

 

[gyngyn]

Even if you get a 31 they are going to see a applicant who took 3 years and 4 attempts to get to about their 10th%.

 

[0919mmk]

Even if you get a 31 they are going to see a applicant who took 3 years and 4 attempts to get to about their 10th%.

Very few (if) any schools have a 10th %ile of 31.

OP I think if you can break 30, that will put you in to a much better position. Yes, it would have been better if you had broken 30 the first time, but better late than never when it comes to MCAT scores. I think it shows perseverance.

 

[SlowTwitch]

If you don't score more than a 31+ your fourth time, this is a big mistake. A 3.82/3.82/28 is competitive for MD and definitely for DO. If you're aiming for a MD, you have to kill the next MCAT you take (31+)i

Btw, those are some incredible ECs. Nice job 🙂

thanks for the heads up, and thanks for the complement!

Even if you get a 31 they are going to see a applicant who took 3 years and 4 attempts to get to about their 10th%.

Thats absolutely my fear... reading through countless other SDN posts, it seems like most people are torn between the "HEY! this guy has some perseverence!" and "Wow, this guy is in over his head..."

I'm no where near giving up, and i definitely agree that i need to broaden my applications. 20 seems excessive to me, but I was shocked to hear at my interviews how many other applicants applied to a dozen or more schools

 

[ovenmitts]

Even if you get a 31 they are going to see a applicant who took 3 years and 4 attempts to get to about their 10th%.

Are you suggesting that he shouldn't take it again?

I think there are quite a few schools that take the best set of scores. And 31 in the 10th percentile? Harsh.

 

[Slickyfats]

Anecdotal response here:

I took the test 3 times. First and Second time I got 28's. Third time was a 32. My GPA was lower than yours (3.45 uGPA, 4.0 graduateGPA). Never mentioned the exams in any interviews or my PS. Failed my first attempt at getting into schools for what I'm guessing was a lower MCAT and a late application (like October. I was stupid). Second time I applied I got my **** in order and moved quickly and smoothly. For what it's worth, I'm asian.

I'm matriculating to UIC-Chicago and was accepted in the first round of acceptances.

Just calm down when you take your MCAT. After getting a 28 twice, I kind of walked in not expecting to do better. Either l magically learned how to study effectively (highly probable since at this point I was no longer on the fence about medicine), or I walked in more relaxed (I usually stress out about standardized tests), or a combo of both.

Either way, my friend, good luck. Your stats are better than mine were, but I may have been pretty lucky too.

Oh, and to increase my verbal score. I just started reading... A lot.... Mostly things I thought were boring and I forced myself to analyze what was written and find SOMETHING interesting in it. Editorials are great for this since its totally subjective which is pretty much what the Verbal section is. I read through a good amount from here. It can be dry, but after a while it's actually pretty insightful.

 

[ovenmitts]

Anecdotal response here:

I took the test 3 times. First and Second time I got 28's. Third time was a 32. My GPA was lower than yours (3.45 uGPA, 4.0 graduateGPA). Never mentioned the exams in any interviews or my PS. Failed my first attempt at getting into schools for what I'm guessing was a lower MCAT and a late application (like October. I was stupid). Second time I applied I got my **** in order and moved quickly and smoothly. For what it's worth, I'm asian.

I'm matriculating to UIC-Chicago and was accepted in the first round of acceptances.

Just calm down when you take your MCAT. After getting a 28 twice, I kind of walked in not expecting to do better. Either l magically learned how to study effectively (highly probable since at this point I was no longer on the fence about medicine), or I walked in more relaxed (I usually stress out about standardized tests), or a combo of both.

Either way, my friend, good luck. Your stats are better than mine were, but I may have been pretty lucky too.

Oh, and to increase my verbal score. I just started reading... A lot.... Mostly things I thought were boring and I forced myself to analyze what was written and find SOMETHING interesting in it. Editorials are great for this since its totally subjective which is pretty much what the Verbal section is. I read through a good amount from here. It can be dry, but after a while it's actually pretty insightful.

I like hearing stories like yours. As someone who's preparing for the MCAT for the third time, I could use the encouragement.

 

[liem]

I took the MCAT 5 times. Some school combine your highest school, which is =30. You probably do not need to do it again unless you study more effectively, increase your test taking IQ, and make like a 33 or more composite on MCAT.

 

[CriticalCond]

Very few (if) any schools have a 10th %ile of 31.

OP I think if you can break 30, that will put you in to a much better position. Yes, it would have been better if you had broken 30 the first time, but better late than never when it comes to MCAT scores. I think it shows perseverance.

Almost half of the schools I applied to have a composite score of 31 as the 10th percentile for matriculated students per the MSAR.

Even if you get a 31 they are going to see a applicant who took 3 years and 4 attempts to get to about their 10th%.

I took the MCAT in '09 and again in '12 because my scores were too old to use and I had one weak (<8) section. Someone actually asked in an interview if I spent 3 years studying for a composite 5 point difference. They are definitely looking/noticing. ONLY take it if you are SURE you can score over a 30.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Schools absolutely care about multiple tries because you don't get multiple shots at any of the follow-on standardized tests (USMLE Step 1, 2CS, 2CK, 3) or board-certifying exams. Don't take it again, you aren't going to score high enough/improve enough to make that much difference. Apply early and very broadly and cross fingers. I find it interesting that you made 4, 6 and 8 on Verbal, but you seem convinced that you can easily get >10V. I think you might be in for disappointment. Don't take it again.

 

[SlowTwitch]

Schools absolutely care about multiple tries because you don't get multiple shots at any of the follow-on standardized tests (USMLE Step 1, 2CS, 2CK, 3) or board-certifying exams. Don't take it again, you aren't going to score high enough/improve enough to make that much difference. Apply early and very broadly and cross fingers. I find it interesting that you made 4, 6 and 8 on Verbal, but you seem convinced that you can easily get >10V. I think you might be in for disappointment. Don't take it again.

"improve enough to make that much difference" = would you conclude that the difference at this point in the game between having a 28 and a 30+ on your app really isnt as important as the other factors (GPA, ECs, LOR, etc)?

As for the confidence of a VS increase, around this past April, I noted that I had been completely immersed in publications, scientific opinions and grant writing that our lab had been doing. I saw an improvement in my ability to assess an article/publication, and in the mood of curiosity I went through a practice verbal, doing remarkably better than previous attempts... Kaplan "scored" it at an 11. believe me, i refuse to be naive and im not taking this as some sign of fate that i am destined to receive a higher score if I were to take it a 4th time, but it piqued my curiosity in humoring the idea of a 4th MCAT... ONLY if it were to provide an adequate boost to my application to take me out of the initial "sub-30 MCAT" purge that is rumored from some admissions committees.

So... since the MCAT, more specifically the verbal section, is my application weakness, is my problem im being too narrow in where i'm applying or would i be able to increase my interview/acceptance chances by a 4th optimistically 31+ score?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

If you can realistically score >5 points on the MCAT, then yes. I retook mine and went from a 26 to a 35. So obviously it shows that I learned a lot of material and am more knowledgeable now than I was in the past.

Med schools care about what you know now, not what you knew a year or two years ago.


I've heard of people getting in after 5 or 6 tries here on SDN. Just make sure this one you take is the last one.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

"improve enough to make that much difference" = would you conclude that the difference at this point in the game between having a 28 and a 30+ on your app really isnt as important as the other factors (GPA, ECs, LOR, etc)?

As for the confidence of a VS increase, around this past April, I noted that I had been completely immersed in publications, scientific opinions and grant writing that our lab had been doing. I saw an improvement in my ability to assess an article/publication, and in the mood of curiosity I went through a practice verbal, doing remarkably better than previous attempts... Kaplan "scored" it at an 11. believe me, i refuse to be naive and im not taking this as some sign of fate that i am destined to receive a higher score if I were to take it a 4th time, but it piqued my curiosity in humoring the idea of a 4th MCAT... ONLY if it were to provide an adequate boost to my application to take me out of the initial "sub-30 MCAT" purge that is rumored from some admissions committees.

So... since the MCAT, more specifically the verbal section, is my application weakness, is my problem im being too narrow in where i'm applying or would i be able to increase my interview/acceptance chances by a 4th optimistically 31+ score?

Like Gandalf said, without getting 32+ on the retake, you just aren't making much marginal difference in your application compared to spending that energy somewhere else.

 

[mycooles]

thanks for the heads up, and thanks for the complement!




Thats absolutely my fear... reading through countless other SDN posts, it seems like most people are torn between the "HEY! this guy has some perseverence!" and "Wow, this guy is in over his head..."

I'm no where near giving up, and i definitely agree that i need to broaden my applications. 20 seems excessive to me, but I was shocked to hear at my interviews how many other applicants applied to a dozen or more schools

To be honest they were probably shocked about how few schools you applied to. It only makes sense that the more schools you apply to the more opportunities you will have of getting in. Granted, it costs money but I can't help but think if you truly want this you will find a way to make more money to create more opportunities. A little of topic but just something I think you should consider.

 

[The Beyonder]

"So... since the MCAT, more specifically the verbal section, is my application weakness, is my problem im being too narrow in where i'm applying or would i be able to increase my interview/acceptance chances by a 4th optimistically 31+ score?

Yes, you're being way to narrow. Tots had one if the best apps for 2017ers and he applied to almost thirty school. If I read your original post correctly you applied to 7 MDs. That is virtually unheard off.

 

[gyngyn]

Very few (if) any schools have a 10th %ile of 31.

OP I think if you can break 30, that will put you in to a much better position. Yes, it would have been better if you had broken 30 the first time, but better late than never when it comes to MCAT scores. I think it shows perseverance.

OP asked specifically about Northwestern and UC. The 10th%'s for which are 31 and 32 respectively.

 

[gyngyn]

Are you suggesting that he shouldn't take it again?

I think there are quite a few schools that take the best set of scores. And 31 in the 10th percentile? Harsh.

Not harsh, true. Facts for the schools about which OP queried: NW and UofC have 10th% at 31 and 32 respectively.

 

[survivordo]

I saw take it again if you are scoring around 35 on practice tests (especially if your verbal reasoning score has gone up considerably), this gives you room to under perform and still significantly improve your previous score. I would add some DO schools to your list, unless you are absolutely stuck on going MD you can just use the DO as a backup for this cycle and you would surely be competitive with your current application - applying a third time just starts to be a pain/looks sad.

Survivor DO

 

[Omppu27]

Lol how the hell did you get 800+ hours of shadowing...

 

[Ismet]

Are you suggesting that he shouldn't take it again?

I think there are quite a few schools that take the best set of scores. And 31 in the 10th percentile? Harsh.

You should pick up an MSAR and count how many schools have 31+ in their 10th percentile. Quite a few, and not even limited to "top 20" or anything.

 

[Benedictus123]

Lol how the hell did you get 800+ hours of shadowing...

Ha, that's what I was trying to figure out. That's almost like a full time job for half a year.

OP, did you kidnap a doctor and force them to practice in your basement?

 

[earl1977]

You have AMAZING GPA and EC's! You are obviously dedicated, Study your butt off and retake that MCAT. If this is what you want to do, and your dedication obviously show this, then I think you have no choice but to take it again. Yeah they will see that you took it 4 times, but what other choice do you have? just my .02!

 

[temppg]

Really consider if you should retake it. Minimum med schools want to see verbal at 8. Ideally an applicant can achieve double digits (10+) on all sections. You would need some serious improvement if you retake it. If your score does not improve significantly, then you are hurting yourself.

I've met ppl who got interviews but werte wait listed and didn't get in. At least one reported that the ad com was hesitant due to her verbal score.

At this point unless can guarantee yourself a significantly higher score, don't retake it and let your GPA and ECs carry you.

 

[SlowTwitch]

Ha, that's what I was trying to figure out. That's almost like a full time job for half a year.

OP, did you kidnap a doctor and force them to practice in your basement?

Absolutely - most of my stuffed animals have great medical insurance that qualifies them for free primary care doctor visits and low deductables on surgeries.

No, I built up some great experiences in high school. Moms a nurse and I was able to earn some money after school/weekends by helping with administrative paperwork. When things were slow, the docs would have me come and join them. This got a little monotonous, so I took two month-long internships, one in Zambia in '07, another to Ecuador in '10. (Had nearly 350 hrs observing before college). THOSE were some serious observation/shadowing hours - I highly recommend taking a summer to a clinic funded by nonprofits, especially internationally... you get to see some amazing things you wouldnt get here in the states. I can't come to calling these int'l trips "med volunteering", since it was a majority of shadowing with a minority of the time sorting prescriptions, making gauze, mopping floors after someone s**t the bed, etc.