MCAT: Can Good Scores in two sections compensate for 1 bad one

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zed350

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Hi,

I got a 14 in PS and a 13 in BS would these be enough to compensate for a 6 in verbal. I guess the other way to put is that would my 33 force adcoms to overlook my 6 in one section? Thanks !
 
No. I heard 8 is the minimum score you need to not raise any red flags. You'll probably have a REALLY tough time. But if you don't make it this cycle, you can always retake.
 
no, it wont. many schools screen per section, something like "if you have under a 7 in any section, you are cut".

im 95% sure of this, someone confirm?
 
Hi,

I got a 14 in PS and a 13 in BS would these be enough to compensate for a 6 in verbal. I guess the other way to put is that would my 33 force adcoms to overlook my 6 in one section? Thanks !
It can happen. It depends on Why you get the six. A lot of schools will cut you, no doubt. But not all of them. If your app is tight, I say go ahead and apply, BUT definitely retake asap if you can.
 
no, it wont. many schools screen per section, something like "if you have under a 7 in any section, you are cut".

im 95% sure of this, someone confirm?
But there are also schools that don't screen according to numbers. It depends on the OP's residence and list of schools. If the OP is from Arkansas, then they have a decent shot.
 
Is English a second language for you?

Might adcom's take something like that into consideration?
 
my situation is similar to yours. I had two interviews out of 10 secondaries completed, and was waitlisted at both schools. I'm still waiting to hear from them. Neither interview brought it up, but then again I only had two interviews. So I do think that it will effect your chances, but it's not impossible to get in either. Good luck!!
 
Hi,

I got a 14 in PS and a 13 in BS would these be enough to compensate for a 6 in verbal. I guess the other way to put is that would my 33 force adcoms to overlook my 6 in one section? Thanks !

Actually I just remembered I have a friend who had a score of 31, 6VR, 3.9 GPA. He applied last year, didn't get in, got waitlisted at Buffalo. This year (c/o 2012) he applied again, but really early. He got into RFU and and got off WL at UIC. I would recommend you retake it. But if you really don't want to, send your application and secondaries asap, and apply to as many lower tier schools as possible.
 
It's interesting that people can do so well in BS & PS but not verbal. You would think your VR skills would have to be fairly decent to do well in teh other sections. Can you think of a reason why your VR is so much lower? Usually an 8 or 9 is minimum to be considered, but who knows with such excellent scores on the other sections & a solid application? If you don't get in and know how to improve your verbal you could probably retake for an excellent score. I wouldn't want to apply with a 6 just because of the number of schools that would likely not consider you though.
 
It's interesting that people can do so well in BS & PS but not verbal. You would think your VR skills would have to be fairly decent to do well in teh other sections. Can you think of a reason why your VR is so much lower? Usually an 8 or 9 is minimum to be considered, but who knows with such excellent scores on the other sections & a solid application? If you don't get in and know how to improve your verbal you could probably retake for an excellent score. I wouldn't want to apply with a 6 just because of the number of schools that would likely not consider you though.

Thanks for your replies guys. Well, technically English IS my second language. The fact that i took only 3 college level english classes dint help me either. I can explain it to adcom's but would I even I get a chance to explain myself?
Its not that I completely sucked at VR, I mean the lowest practice score I ever had was like 7 or 8 and was averaging 10 just before the Actual MCAT. I thought verbal on my MCAT was pretty straightforward..so really dont know what went wrong. I have a 4.0 gpa and 2 years of solid medical EC's/research (albeit not related to medicine). So yeah, just little confused and frustrated I guess.
 
Posted via Mobile Devicethis brings up he question.. If u are an immigrant (15 years ago) and speak another language at home, what is your primary language? Also considering the fact that u r fluent in English..I ask because this is on the amcas
 
From what I have read...in terms of med school...Verbal is more important than PS for two reasons:

1.) They realize that most of the applicants are NOT math/physics based majors and are clearly at a disadvantage in this section while in the Bio portion, most are life science majors so will do better. Verbal can be considered the "Equalizer" section.

2.) This one is probably the most important one. Verbal indicates your comprehension ability. It gauges how well you can pick up "hidden" pieces of information.

I could be dead wrong...this is just what i pick up on reading/talking to schools ect.
 
From what I have read...in terms of med school...Verbal is more important than PS for two reasons:

1.) They realize that most of the applicants are NOT math/physics based majors and are clearly at a disadvantage in this section while in the Bio portion, most are life science majors so will do better. Verbal can be considered the "Equalizer" section.

2.) This one is probably the most important one. Verbal indicates your comprehension ability. It gauges how well you can pick up "hidden" pieces of information.

I could be dead wrong...this is just what i pick up on reading/talking to schools ect.

You are dead wrong. The bio section has been proven to have the highest correlation to success in medical school.

OP- Your average verbal practice score was around 9. There's no reason for you not to retake. Even if you're science sections suffer by a point or two each, you'll still have a balanced 30+, which will almost guarantee you a seat.
 
Gobblox said:
Verbal is more important than PS for two reasons:

You are dead wrong. The bio section has been proven to have the highest correlation to success in medical school.

Funny thing... a former dean found that physical science score was most closely correlated with success at our medical school.

This may vary by school.
 
Funny thing... a former dean found that physical science score was most closely correlated with success at our medical school.

This may vary by school.
Therefore, there is no correlation for sections :laugh: I don't really think it's appropriate to find correlation between a section and medical school success. Maybe for people who have taken it multiple times (multiple samples). One day, one test, one section, is too little to draw correlation.
 
Therefore, there is no correlation for sections :laugh: I don't really think it's appropriate to find correlation between a section and medical school success. Maybe for people who have taken it multiple times (multiple samples). One day, one test, one section, is too little to draw correlation.

Au contraire. Statisticians can build models using a single observation from each subject (actually much more simple to deal with statistically than multiple measures from the same subject over time). Just as I can take age, blood pressure, body mass index, plus serum cholesterol measured just once and build a pretty robust model predicting the likelihood that you will die of a heart attack in the next 5 years, the same can be done with the MCAT subscores, gpa, etc with med school failure as the outcome of interest. The most simple model is the best and for some schools the best predictor variable is verbal score, for others it is something else and this may depend on the teaching methods, evaluation methods and so forth used at the school.
 
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Funny thing... a former dean found that physical science score was most closely correlated with success at our medical school.

This may vary by school.

Was this correlation found based on grades earned at your school, or was it based on USMLE Step I scores? I ask because I've heard that either VR or BS sections have the strongest correlation with Step I scores (my home institution preaches that VR is the most important subsection score, but I'm not sure if I buy into that).
 
Was this correlation found based on grades earned at your school, or was it based on USMLE Step I scores? I ask because I've heard that either VR or BS sections have the strongest correlation with Step I scores (my home institution preaches that VR is the most important subsection score, but I'm not sure if I buy into that).

I think that the dean was trying to predict successful completion of the M1 year or maybe M1 and M2 year. Sometimes there is a desire to take someone who has less than sterling academic credentials but who brings some other interesting experiences to the table. The question becomes, is this person going to be able to survive in this academic environment? I've never heard any worries expressed about probability of passing the boards or scoring high on the boards -- but this is a school with pretty high stats (Lizzy score >68).
 
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Everyone who shared their opinions and comments I really appreciate your time and concern for my situation. Thanks !🙂. I believe I have a plan of attack now.👍
 
Since you were getting higher scores, 7 or 8, why not just concentrate on that section and retake soon? It seems crazy not to with such high numbers in the other sections. How's your GPA? Either high or low you should most definitely repeat the test and then you will have many more options.
 
Not wanting to steal the spotlight, but suppose the OP had an 8 in VR, 35 total (I ask b/c then we would be talking about me 🙂). Would you guys still recommend retaking? Assume ESL, 3.8 GPA, 3.9 BCPM, research, clinical... lovely package overall.
 
Not wanting to steal the spotlight, but suppose the OP had an 8 in VR, 35 total (I ask b/c then we would be talking about me 🙂). Would you guys still recommend retaking? Assume ESL, 3.8 GPA, 3.9 BCPM, research, clinical... lovely package overall.

The 8 won't keep you out of every school but it will limit your application at some of the top tier institutions.
 
Not wanting to steal the spotlight, but suppose the OP had an 8 in VR, 35 total (I ask b/c then we would be talking about me 🙂). Would you guys still recommend retaking? Assume ESL, 3.8 GPA, 3.9 BCPM, research, clinical... lovely package overall.
I think you're good. I haven't seen the latest MSAR, but in my versiion, every top school has accepted student's with scores of 8 in verbal. If the rest of your app is tight, then go for it.
 
My MCAT PS 14 VR 6 BS 12
and I got accepted
 
I want to throw in here that in general, the consensus in past discussions over the years has been that verbal is a better predictor for med school success in the first 2 years and on step 1. There are some conflicting reports, and some individual schools use various indicators for their own students as well though. But think about it this way, verbal it is essentially a timed reading comprehension test. Pull info out of a text and think about it critically in a short amount of time. In short, basically what you do the first couple years of med school. For the MCAT, it doesn't really matter what the passages are about, so much as you can skim it quickly, get the main points, and the be able to answer questions about it. These skills are important in step 1 as well. You will learn the basic bio and physical sciences that you need as you go, so you really only need a certain minimum competency in these subjects to be successfull. Advanced knowledge definitely helps of course, but you can manage.


OP: This all being said, don't let one low score beat you down too much. Schools can be very forgiving when looking at the whole applicant. I had very lopsided score as well, with a 6 point spread between my high and low sub scores. I am sure that it cost me some interviews, being so unbalanced. But it all worked out. A 6 in any section will hurt you, but you are not done. And with your high scores in the other sections, I am sure that you could re-test to bring verbal up if you had to. Good luck!
 
Look at my profle 31R, verbal 7, 3.86.
I got 12 interview invites total.
If your writing score is not good either 👎, retake MCAT (at least verbal >8)
If you got B's on your English classes 👎, retake MCAT
you need some evidence that proves you have excellent verbal skills

With that said, be prepared to talk about why you have low verbal score even if they don't ask in the interviews (always bring it up so the interviewer can advocate for you in front of the commitee) and write those LOIs because you will get a bunch of waitlists.
 
Look at my profle 31R, verbal 7, 3.86.
I got 12 interview invites total.
If your writing score is not good either 👎, retake MCAT (at least verbal >8)
If you got B's on your English classes 👎, retake MCAT
you need some evidence that proves you have excellent verbal skills

With that said, be prepared to talk about why you have low verbal score even if they don't ask in the interviews (always bring it up so the interviewer can advocate for you in front of the commitee) and write those LOIs because you will get a bunch of waitlists.
I am certainly not an expert but I think any connection between your writing ability (ws) and verbal reasoning score is erroneous. Frankly, as long as you score an M on the writing sample it carries 0 weight. Look at your total MCAT score percentile, writing is not a factor in your total score.
 
I want to throw in here that in general, the consensus in past discussions over the years has been that verbal is a better predictor for med school success in the first 2 years and on step 1. There are some conflicting reports, and some individual schools use various indicators for their own students as well though. But think about it this way, verbal it is essentially a timed reading comprehension test. Pull info out of a text and think about it critically in a short amount of time. In short, basically what you do the first couple years of med school. For the MCAT, it doesn't really matter what the passages are about, so much as you can skim it quickly, get the main points, and the be able to answer questions about it. These skills are important in step 1 as well. You will learn the basic bio and physical sciences that you need as you go, so you really only need a certain minimum competency in these subjects to be successfull. Advanced knowledge definitely helps of course, but you can manage.


OP: This all being said, don't let one low score beat you down too much. Schools can be very forgiving when looking at the whole applicant. I had very lopsided score as well, with a 6 point spread between my high and low sub scores. I am sure that it cost me some interviews, being so unbalanced. But it all worked out. A 6 in any section will hurt you, but you are not done. And with your high scores in the other sections, I am sure that you could re-test to bring verbal up if you had to. Good luck!


Thanks for all the encouragement Man, I need all I can get.

On other hand, I am pretty sure of my critical thinking skills. I have worked in aerospace industry for 2 years at a research position and I have done my share of reading/writing papers. I just hope people recognize that they do say, "I am no rocket scientist" for a reason. 😛 It was not like I dint know how to do verbal..I was averaging 9-10 just before the test. In my opinion the Verbal on my mcat was pretty easy so curve just got moved towards the right or I might have just skipped a passage?? who knows I can only speculate.

I have no intentions to attend hot shot schools, frankly, I am way too laid back to compete with young gunners anyway. I just want to go to a decent school which will treat me as an individual and not a pile of numbers.So looking from that perspective its OK with me if schools weed me out when they see a 6 on verbal and ignore everything else I bring along.

I am in such a position on personal front that I wont be able to retake this year. I am just applying and hoping for the best. If it does not work out this year then there is always the next. Just pray for me as I really need a lot of support at this time.🙂

Besides all this madness, I have been watching and reading a lot of "Into the Wild" and its good enough to keep me grounded.
(PS: Maybe I should have done the reading part before my mcat 😉😀)
 
Look at my profle 31R, verbal 7, 3.86.
I got 12 interview invites total.
If your writing score is not good either 👎, retake MCAT (at least verbal >8)
If you got B's on your English classes 👎, retake MCAT
you need some evidence that proves you have excellent verbal skills

With that said, be prepared to talk about why you have low verbal score even if they don't ask in the interviews (always bring it up so the interviewer can advocate for you in front of the commitee) and write those LOIs because you will get a bunch of waitlists.

Hey, Thanks for replying.

I have 4.0 undergrad GPA. A's in English classes and hope to add a couple more writing intensive classes to that list by the end of this summer. I agree that it would be a good idea to clarify my situation in person with the Adcom's if and when I get that opportunity.👍
 
Thanks for all the encouragement Man, I need all I can get.

On other hand, I am pretty sure of my critical thinking skills. I have worked in aerospace industry for 2 years at a research position and I have done my share of reading/writing papers. I just hope people recognize that they do say, "I am no rocket scientist" for a reason. 😛 It was not like I dint know how to do verbal..I was averaging 9-10 just before the test. In my opinion the Verbal on my mcat was pretty easy so curve just got moved towards the right or I might have just skipped a passage?? who knows I can only speculate.

I have no intentions to attend hot shot schools, frankly, I am way too laid back to compete with young gunners anyway. I just want to go to a decent school which will treat me as an individual and not a pile of numbers.So looking from that perspective its OK with me if schools weed me out when they see a 6 on verbal and ignore everything else I bring along.

I am in such a position on personal front that I wont be able to retake this year. I am just applying and hoping for the best. If it does not work out this year then there is always the next. Just pray for me as I really need a lot of support at this time.🙂

Besides all this madness, I have been watching and reading a lot of "Into the Wild" and its good enough to keep me grounded.
(PS: Maybe I should have done the reading part before my mcat 😉😀)

Sounds like you have a great attitude, that will take you a long way. I am a non-trad as well, so of course I am always pulling for the older applicants. It does seem true that the younger students fresh out of college on average have clearer minds and are perhaps at an advantage at times when cramming and gunning for top scores. I know that it takes me longer to learn things than it used to, but i'm still hanging in there. Us old folks have our own advantages though, not the least of which is the world experience we bring to the table. In the end, it all balances out. Good luck to you, and keep us updated!
 
Sounds like you have a great attitude, that will take you a long way. I am a non-trad as well, so of course I am always pulling for the older applicants. It does seem true that the younger students fresh out of college on average have clearer minds and are perhaps at an advantage at times when cramming and gunning for top scores. I know that it takes me longer to learn things than it used to, but i'm still hanging in there. Us old folks have our own advantages though, not the least of which is the world experience we bring to the table. In the end, it all balances out. Good luck to you, and keep us updated!

I completely agree with you. As I grow older it seems that I have started enjoying my journey rather than wasting my time worrying about the destination. I think life experiences teach you that. Every situation you put yourself into is actually funny when you take a step back and look at it. Like, I cant say "6" when I am around my girlfriend these days becuase I get to hear all the jokes that involve number 6..so yeah its kindda interesting.🙂
 
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