MCAT for USC OMFS Applicants?

[fjk]

So... how are people approaching this? Are you guys going to take the MCAT? When? Or are you just not going to apply to USC?

Is there a single other program that has this as a requirement?

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[GTFOOMICT]

So... how are people approaching this? Are you guys going to take the MCAT? When? Or are you just not going to apply to USC?

Is there a single other program that has this as a requirement?

wow

 

[servitup]

Wow. Is this for real? The MCAT is totally useless.

 

[rockclock]

i'm no where near applying for OMFS programs (if that's even the route I end up going), but this was so ridiculous it caught my eye and I just had to look it up:

http://web.adea.org/webapps/EPS/SearchDetailResults.asp?ProgNum=OMS206

looks like you need MCAT scores and you have to submit a separate application through AMCAS...basically apply to medical school...haha looks like USC's applicant pool just took a hit

 

[Eugene Oplasty]

i'm no where near applying for OMFS programs (if that's even the route I end up going), but this was so ridiculous it caught my eye and I just had to look it up:

http://web.adea.org/webapps/EPS/SearchDetailResults.asp?ProgNum=OMS206

looks like you need MCAT scores and you have to submit a separate application through AMCAS...basically apply to medical school...haha looks like USC's applicant pool just took a hit

Wow! How was this decision made?

USC might be the only program that's considering the MCAT. I doubt applicants will have time to take it.

 

[rockclock]

Wow! How was this decision made?

USC might be the only program that's considering the MCAT. I doubt applicants will have time to take it.

the time issue is one thing: yes, it is a hassle, but I would bet that an OMFS caliber student could review in a day or two and easily score at or above usc's accepted averages

i'd say the even bigger issue here is that if USC is the only program asking for applicants to jump through this extra hoop, won't a lot of people just cross USC off the list...? it simply won't be worth the hassle.

and my guess is that some higher-ups at Keck just decided to throw some weight around and demand that anyone who will be graduating their program with an MD needs to have taken the MCAT...not quite as bad as requiring the GRE like some orthos but it's pretty close.

 

[senpai]

To be blunt: THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL I WILL APPLY!

 

[Eugene Oplasty]

the time issue is one thing: yes, it is a hassle, but I would bet that an OMFS caliber student could review in a day or two and easily score at or above usc's accepted averages

i'd say the even bigger issue here is that if USC is the only program asking for applicants to jump through this extra hoop, won't a lot of people just cross USC off the list...? it simply won't be worth the hassle.

and my guess is that some higher-ups at Keck just decided to throw some weight around and demand that anyone who will be graduating their program with an MD needs to have taken the MCAT...not quite as bad as requiring the GRE like some orthos but it's pretty close.

Hmm...the ABOMS should have all the current and incoming 6 years residents take the MCAT. There needs to be some kind of baseline score before selecting future 6 year residents.

To current or incoming residents:
If you were presented this test today, would you be ready to take it?
If not, how much time would you need to prepare?

 

[GTFOOMICT]

Hmm...the ABOMS should have all the current and incoming 6 years residents take the MCAT. I'm curious how everyone would perform.

To current or incoming residents:
If you were presented this test today, would you be ready to take it?
If not, how much time would you need to prepare?

If USC was an applicant's number 1, this change is an OPPORTUNITY!! I would personally not take the exam because USC was not that important to me due to financials. That makes 1 less applicant for those who do take the mcat. That may or may not extend to others.

I think the test would take more time than expected. That knowledge base may be basic but it is a few years ago. Also tack on physics. Might be hard for some as it may not just be a review.

I fully support the use of NBME as our new admissions exam. The nbde is an excellent exam for dentistry in finding minimum knowledge for licensure. The nbme feels more appropriate for the specialty. The mcat seems like a terrible idea and have a feeling this is coming from the med school.

 

[senpai]

If USC was an applicant's number 1, this change is an OPPORTUNITY!! I would personally not take the exam because USC was not that important to me due to financials. That makes 1 less applicant for those who do take the mcat. That may or may not extend to others.

I think the test would take more time than expected. That knowledge base may be basic but it is a few years ago. Also tack on physics. Might be hard for some as it may not just be a review.

I fully support the use of NBME as our new admissions exam. The nbde is an excellent exam for dentistry in finding minimum knowledge for licensure. The nbme feels more appropriate for the specialty. The mcat seems like a terrible idea and have a feeling this is coming from the med school.

I agree, but my only concern is that the NBME covers material from the first 2 years of medical school that isn't covered in dental school (i.e., psychiatry, etc.). This puts those who are at a dental school who do the first 2 years of medical school at an obvious advantage. Also, many OMFS programs have you do 2nd year of medical school. What would be the point of doing 2nd year if you already were required to learn the information to get in to an OMFS program? The exam needs to be revised so that it can be catered to those with a basic science background that is provided in a DENTAL curriculum.

Having to take the MCAT is insulting IMO This is a poor reflection of USC and the programs inability take care of their own. Instead they're letting their residents and applicants get jerked around by the medical student.

 

[sweetdaises2000]

I agree, but my only concern is that the NBME covers material from the first 2 years of medical school that isn't covered in dental school (i.e., psychiatry, etc.). This puts those who are at a dental school who do the first 2 years of medical school at an obvious advantage. Also, many OMFS programs have you do 2nd year of medical school. What would be the point of doing 2nd year if you already were required to learn the information to get in to an OMFS program? The exam needs to be revised so that it can be catered to those with a basic science background that is provided in a DENTAL curriculum.

Having to take the MCAT is insulting IMO This is a poor reflection of USC and the programs inability take care of their own. Instead they're letting their residents and applicants get jerked around by the medical student.

Agreed! This just screams turf/ego battle in my opinion. In what way does this seperate applicants from each other? Especially since the sciences required to matriculate into a dental and medical school are exactly the same. It simply doesnt make sense-to be tested over information that was learned 6-7 years ago? I highly doubt even medical students could bust out random, undergraduate science information from years back. The test, just like any other standardized test, is knowledge and strategy-why waste time learning how to take just another standardized exam, when 4 years of doctoral, dental education should speak for itself. I mean really, having doctoral students take an undergrad level exam? In what other health profession would this happen? The MCAT would not do an adequate job of setting doctoral students apart, at all! Wow, USC has hit quite a low point, in addition to their absurd dental tuition.....

 

[Eugene Oplasty]

Then this raises another question. If a physician wanted to apply to oral surgery, would they only need to do 2 years of dental school and 4 years of oral surgery? Can a physician just submit their step 1 results and apply to dental school?

 

[servitup]

Then this raises another question. If a physician wanted to apply to oral surgery, would they only need to do 2 years of dental school and 4 years of oral surgery? Can a physician just submit their step 1 results and apply to dental school?

My program has had a few MD's come through. They can't quite knock out D school in 2 years but they finish up requirements while on service. They did not take the DAT.

 

[rockclock]

Agreed! This just screams turf/ego battle in my opinion. In what way does this seperate applicants from each other? Especially since the sciences required to matriculate into a dental and medical school are exactly the same. It simply doesnt make sense-to be tested over information that was learned 6-7 years ago? I highly doubt even medical students could bust out random, undergraduate science information from years back. The test, just like any other standardized test, is knowledge and strategy-why waste time learning how to take just another standardized exam, when 4 years of doctoral, dental education should speak for itself. I mean really, having doctoral students take an undergrad level exam? In what other health profession would this happen? The MCAT would not do an adequate job of setting doctoral students apart, at all! Wow, USC has hit quite a low point, in addition to their absurd dental tuition.....

how about ortho applicants and the GRE? equally irrelevant

 

[loveoforganic]

the time issue is one thing: yes, it is a hassle, but I would bet that an OMFS caliber student could review in a day or two and easily score at or above usc's accepted averages

Doubtful, imo. Not knocking dental students, don't think top caliber med students way out the game could either.

Dumb policy though!

 

[AU07DMD]

the time issue is one thing: yes, it is a hassle, but I would bet that an OMFS caliber student could review in a day or two and easily score at or above usc's accepted averages

i'd say the even bigger issue here is that if USC is the only program asking for applicants to jump through this extra hoop, won't a lot of people just cross USC off the list...? it simply won't be worth the hassle.

and my guess is that some higher-ups at Keck just decided to throw some weight around and demand that anyone who will be graduating their program with an MD needs to have taken the MCAT...not quite as bad as requiring the GRE like some orthos but it's pretty close.

Bingo! I wasn't going to apply to USC anyway, but if I were considering them this new change would make the decision easy for me. There is so much other stuff applicants have to worry about aside from studying from a college level basic science exam (6 to 7 years after they have had most of this material).

 

[senpai]

Then this raises another question. If a physician wanted to apply to oral surgery, would they only need to do 2 years of dental school and 4 years of oral surgery? Can a physician just submit their step 1 results and apply to dental school?

Exactly... Programs like Harvard that take MD applicants only require Step 1, no DAT.

 

[armorshell]

I wonder if the medical school realizes that requiring the mcat will likely have the opposite effect they want. By narrowing the applicant pool, theyre far more likely to get inferior candidates.

 

[jiggapigga]

Total waste of time. So essentially, USC is saying a graduate of dental school is equivalent to everyone else applying to Med school . They should also require some community service, and a requirement for life experience.

Applicants should just boycott this.

 

[WannaBeDentist]

When I posted about the idea of this happening sometime last year people thought I was ridiculous...it looks like ridiculous is a reality now. Crazy

 

[capnamerica]

Exactly... Programs like Harvard that take MD applicants only require Step 1, no DAT.

Although I'm not in D-school yet, I read on the Harvard website, that they do want applicants' MCAT scores.

In regards to USC's new ruling, I'm curious as to whether they accept MCAT scores from examinations written before the applicant entered dental school...

 

[DrReo]

I wonder if the medical school realizes that requiring the mcat will likely have the opposite effect they want. By narrowing the applicant pool, theyre far more likely to get inferior candidates.

I wonder how recent the MCAT scores must be. There are several folks who gave the good old college try at the DAT and MCAT.

 

[capnamerica]

I wonder how recent the MCAT scores must be. There are several folks who gave the good old college try at the DAT and MCAT.

Yupp.

 

[senpai]

I wonder how recent the MCAT scores must be. There are several folks who gave the good old college try at the DAT and MCAT.

That's a good question. I was wondering the same thing myslef...

 

[fjk]

Seems like the MCAT may be waived for the year.

 

[fjk]

It's no longer posted on the PASS website

 

[senpai]

Seems like the MCAT may be waived for the year.

Called and asked out of curiosity. Not required for this years applicants. The lady I spoke with wasn't sure about next year...

 

[DrTacoElf]

I took both and the mcat is much harder TONS harder. I got a 28 on it. 11 biological sciences, 10 physical sciences, 7 verbal. 28 is pretty much crap you need at least a 30 to be minimally competitive, 35 to get serious.

 

[Muggsy Bogues]

I took both and the mcat is much harder TONS harder. I got a 28 on it. 11 biological sciences, 10 physical sciences, 7 verbal. 28 is pretty much crap you need at least a 30 to be minimally competitive, 35 to get serious.

Out of curiosity, how'd you do on the DAT?

 

[preOMFS]

I also took both tests. MCAT = 12Bio, 10Phy, 5Verbal

DAT = 24 science, 24 AA, 21 PAT (I got 28 on Reading Comp)

In my opinion the MCAT is harder than the DAT just because of the format, it includes physics, and the verbal section is 20x harder than RC on the DAT.

 

[senpai]

I took both and the mcat is much harder TONS harder. I got a 28 on it. 11 biological sciences, 10 physical sciences, 7 verbal. 28 is pretty much crap you need at least a 30 to be minimally competitive, 35 to get serious.

More difficult than NBDE Part I?

 

[Muggsy Bogues]

MCAT really isn't that tough but it's more difficult than the DAT. Not that it matters at all though given the phenomenon known as standardization.

 

[Munchy]

My friend wrote her MCAT and got 38S. She wrote the DAT as well as scored 24TS.
Similar percentiles.

 

[Charmm]

My friend wrote her MCAT and got 38S. She wrote the DAT as well as scored 24TS.
Similar percentiles.

I did 38 MCAT ( 14, 15 , 9 ) ; DAT ( 24 AA, 26TS, 21 PAT)

I still dont get why a program would require MCAT for OMFS !!!!!!!!

 

[DrTacoElf]

Out of curiosity, how'd you do on the DAT?

23TS on DAT

 

[DrTacoElf]

Out of curiosity, how'd you do on the DAT?

23AA, 23TS, 17PAT on DAT as best I can remember.

 

[achilles2]

I agree, but my only concern is that the NBME covers material from the first 2 years of medical school that isn't covered in dental school (i.e., psychiatry, etc.). This puts those who are at a dental school who do the first 2 years of medical school at an obvious advantage. Also, many OMFS programs have you do 2nd year of medical school. What would be the point of doing 2nd year if you already were required to learn the information to get in to an OMFS program? The exam needs to be revised so that it can be catered to those with a basic science background that is provided in a DENTAL curriculum.

Having to take the MCAT is insulting IMO This is a poor reflection of USC and the programs inability take care of their own. Instead they're letting their residents and applicants get jerked around by the medical student.

riiiiiiiigggghhhtt

so your argument against the NBME instead of the MCAT is those that attended med school for the 1st 2 years will be better prepared for a medical based test, which may be used to determined who is better prepared for a medical based residency????

no thats totally unfair we should def relearn physics again instead of reinforcing pathophys!!!!

 

[senpai]

riiiiiiiigggghhhtt

so your argument against the NBME instead of the MCAT is those that attended med school for the 1st 2 years will be better prepared for a medical based test, which may be used to determined who is better prepared for a medical based residency????

no thats totally unfair we should def relearn physics again instead of reinforcing pathophys!!!!

No, not what I said at all. Re-read what I wrote and the context of my comments in regards to those previousely posted. All I said was that it might be wise to revise the NBME so that it is a more appropriate exam for dental applicants across the board. The NBME is obviousely a more relevant exam than the MCAT. I am completely against the use of the MCAT as an admissions tool. Also, OMFS is not a "medical-based" residency. It is a dental residency. We have had success for decades now using dental board exams strictly as the admissions criteria, even for dual-degreed programs. My belief is that admissions in to dental residencies should be based on success and mastery of concepts and skills provided in a dental curriculum. The peripheral knowledge learned in medical school will be spoon-fead to you when you get there and there is no reason to require dental students to master it at that point in there training. Besides, medical school is a joke. Any OMFS resident will tell you that it was the easiest part of their training in residency or dental school.