MCAT/GPA and MSTP programs

[randallB]

Just wondering what the ranges are in terms of MCAT/GPA are for some MSTP programs....it's tough to get a good read from the online stats. Congrats to all who have been accepted!

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[Neuronix]

The problem is that everything ranges wildly. I guess you've seen the stats in the forum FAQ, and I think the averages are good for the usual applicant. If you have a low GPA but amazing research, it gets forgiven. So GPAs in the low 3.0s are infrequent, but not unheard of. Meanwhile, if the MCAT is the low part but everything else is solid, you can see people in their high 20s getting into solid programs.

My usual indicator is that you need two of three of:
1) GPA - 3.8+ (no hair splitting between 3.8 - 4.0)
2) MCAT - 34+
3) 2+ yrs Research Experience (meaningful, pubs not necessary)

to get in. Now, if you are solid in all three, you end up being top-tier material. When you are below those bars, it depends how far and in how many. Of course, this is not some firm rigid criteria, just the way I think of things. There's plenty of cases outside the norm.

 

[hockebob]

ninebillion,

i really don't think you need to bother explaining... your gpa is fine (even the bcpm). you may get an auto-rejection from ucsf or other number-heavy schools, but i kind of doubt it. on the other hand, if you want to incorporate the information about your BME academic program into your personal statement (without giving specific numbers) or your MD/PhD statement, that might be a good idea. i could see how describing the types of courses you've taken in college and how they influenced your decision to apply to med school and/or the md/phd program would be beneficial for the admissions committee.

otherwise, your application looks strong... especially considering some of the places to which you're thinking of applying. washu and duke would probably be your stretch schools but you probably need to go ahead and apply anyway. never hurts (except the money, of course).

finally, in general, i wouldn't try to make excuses for things (like your bcpm gpa) unless you're asked directly about it, because all interviewers are different and some might really care less (especially for md/phd). i would focus on writing a coherent and interesting md/phd statement and practice describing your research to people outside of your field.

good luck. relax a bit and i'm sure you'll do fine.
aaron

 

[Neuronix]

I think you'll have some success, especially at the Texas schools. Don't sweat it too bad. In what you're under, you're barely under. The BCPM GPA is bad, yes, but it's not a huge deal.

PS: I agree with hockebob, who posted a minute before I did while I was writing this brief reply

 

[ninebillion]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input. I'll leave out my explanation but work some of my coursework decisions into my personal statement.

 

[tigerC]

I think you'll have some success, especially at the Texas schools.

This statement is very inappropriate especially as the moderator for the SDN MSTP. There are only two Texas schools with NIH funded MSTP program: Baylor School of Medicine and UT Southwestern. According to the latest US News and statistics from both schools, the average GPA is 3.77 at BCM and 3.75 at UTSW. The average MCAT scores are 34 at Baylor and 33 at UTSW.

 

[Newquagmire]

This statement is very inappropriate especially as the moderator for the SDN MSTP. There are only two Texas schools with NIH funded MSTP program: Baylor School of Medicine and UT Southwestern. According to the latest US News and statistics from both schools, the average GPA is 3.77 at BCM and 3.75 at UTSW. The average MCAT scores are 34 at Baylor and 33 at UTSW.

re-read ninebillion's post. s/he's applying to other non-mstp md/phd programs in texas (presumably as a TX resident).

 

[tigerC]

Right now I'm looking at applying to programs with strong bioengineering research (and/or encouraging administrators)... From what I've read and heard, I've come up with the following list: Emory/GaTech, Penn, Baylor/Rice, Northwestern, UW, UCSD, Duke, Columbia, Wash U, UCLA, and Case Western. I'm a Texas resident so I'm also applying via TMDSAS to UTH and UTMB, which have solid ties with bioengineering departments.Good choice for this list. Please note that this list is not the non-MSTP Texas schools! You will be successful with strong back ground in Bioenginnering. Definitely not in Texas schools only.

 

[tigerC]

re-read ninebillion's post. s/he's applying to other non-mstp md/phd programs in texas (presumably as a TX resident).

You should re-read the list again.

 

[Newquagmire]

You should re-read the list again.

intimidating

 

[Neuronix]

I think you'll have some success, especially at the Texas schools.

This statement is very inappropriate especially as the moderator for the SDN MSTP. There are only two Texas schools with NIH funded MSTP program: Baylor School of Medicine and UT Southwestern. According to the latest US News and statistics from both schools, the average GPA is 3.77 at BCM and 3.75 at UTSW. The average MCAT scores are 34 at Baylor and 33 at UTSW.

ninebillion specifically mentioned UTH and UTMB, which have non-MSTP MD/PhD programs. I was referring to these two programs, and I apologize for not making that clear. They are moderately competitive because they are fully-funded, but not as competitive as Baylor or UTSW.

I do have stats to back up the competitiveness of Baylor: http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/mstp/admissions_statistics.html, and I agree that it is very competitive--moreso than you have listed here from the USNews stats (which are of course for MD admissions).

 

[byong_soo]

Hi~ I am a second year in undergrad =) I heard that there are MANY people even with high GPA's and high MCAT scores and decent research ((w/pubs)). I am sure many of you have either seen or heard this kind of case. I have pretty decent resume (more or less I hope -_-) but I was wondering why those kind of things happen! AHH so mad! You can NEVER be so complacent about ur progress, can you? I can never feel so secure. I think this is really getting on my nerves.

 

[indianboy]

Hi~ I am a second year in undergrad =) I heard that there are MANY people even with high GPA's and high MCAT scores and decent research ((w/pubs)). I am sure many of you have either seen or heard this kind of case. I have pretty decent resume (more or less I hope -_-) but I was wondering why those kind of things happen! AHH so mad! You can NEVER be so complacent about ur progress, can you? I can never feel so secure. I think this is really getting on my nerves.

Are you on drugs?

Hope that Helps

P 'If so, don't stop' ShankOut

 

[byong_soo]

Are you on drugs?

Hope that Helps

P 'If so, don't stop' ShankOut

Haha shoot. I am sorry. I MUST have been on drugs when I posted the previous entry. No no. I didn't mean that I am mad that there are ppl who get high GPAs and high MCAT scores. What I was trying to say was why do ppl with good resumes like that get REJECTED from a lot of med schools and MSTP's? What is the usual explanation? Sorry I hope I am making myself much clearer this time.

 

[ImmunoANT]

Haha shoot. I am sorry. I MUST have been on drugs when I posted the previous entry. No no. I didn't mean that I am mad that there are ppl who get high GPAs and high MCAT scores. What I was trying to say was why do ppl with good resumes like that get REJECTED from a lot of med schools and MSTP's? What is the usual explanation? Sorry I hope I am making myself much clearer this time.

Well, maybe they screw up during interviews.... maybe it's something on their recommendation letters ... there are lots of things that can go wrong. MD/PhD applications (MD too) are like crap-shoot; nothing is guaranteed. Also, keep in mind that stories like these (high GPA/MCAT, good research, good interviews and still get rejected) are rare but they happen. It's just that when it does happen, it sticks to your memory. You are still a sophomore and you already worry about this?! I can't even remember what I was doing back then..... Anyway, best of luck to you.

ImmunoANT

Someone told me that it was Ralph Wiggum who said "Me Fail English? That's Unpossible!". I thought it was Homer? This shows that I haven't watched enough of the Simpsons... hmmm.... back to TV then....

 

[Neuronix]

Here's the usual explanations I think of for that good on paper applicant that everyone wonders about.

For MD or MD/PhD:
Bad LOR (even one can spoil your whole application)
Poor interviewing (especially on that why MD/PhD part)
International applicant or English not fluent
Location preference for applicants from school (not important for MSTP)
Not well-rounded (not so important for MD/PhD, the one dimension that really matters is research)
Applied to the wrong or too few schools
Criminal record

For MD/PhD:
Lousy research, good on paper, but really knows nothing about what they did

It can just be bad luck too. You can always reapply.

PS: It is definately Ralph Wiggum that said it. That episode is really funny.