MCAT OR GPA more important to Medschool?

[xih161]

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[alexrgross]

GPA is more important, I think. But an strong MCAT can show that a lower GPA is not a concern...especially a borderline GPA, like yours.

 

[411309]

GPA is more important, I think. But an strong MCAT can show that a lower GPA is not a concern...especially a borderline GPA, like yours.

I disagree. I think MCAT pulls more weight in admission. MCAT is a standardized test given to every pre med applicant used to gauge what they know and how they can apply that knowledge in a given situation in a short period of time. GPA is different..gpa can be meaningless. Someone could major in something stupid at a joke university and have a 4.0 gpa as opposed to some harvard undergrad majoring in molecular bio having a 4.0. Granted, im sure the admissions committee takes that into account, but looking at it from this perspective the mcat sets a standard of measuring academic performance where it can't be inflated or "winged".

I know several people with high mcat/low end gpa that got into med school and not many with a low mcat that got in..Not that I think mcat says how good of a doctor youll be but still, I think it can level the playing field because it puts you in a stressful situation with several other pre meds where the prepared pre meds rise to the occasion and the rest get owned. The MCAT is a stressful test, even if you know the material they give you these ridiculously confusing passages sometimes just to see how youll react and if it will distract you. IMO, the mcat was designed because gpa isnt always a good indicator of your academic abilities while mcat measures those abilities in comparison to other pre meds.

 

[Onetothree]

I disagree. I think MCAT pulls more weight in admission.

Except quite a few Canadian school's don't even require the MCAT, and the ones that do have very low prerequisites. Only four Canadian MED schools I can think of have low GPA thresholds. Go here to see the requirements.

 

[BA11]

A great MCAT can make up for an average GPA but a great GPA rarely means much with an average/low MCAT when it comes to MD schools. For instance, a 40 with a 3.4 GPA will get you into quite a few schools if your EC are solid, but a 4.0 with a 26 MCAT probably won't even get you into a state school unless you have some incredible EC or life story.

A 41 on the MCAT is pretty hard to ignore unless your GPA is just in the tank.

 

[V5RED]

Looking at the acceptance rates I notice the following trends:

For MCAT scores below 30, there is an almost equal correlation between value of one point increase on the MCAT or .1 increase in GPA. In other words, if your MCAT is below 30, your percent chance of acceptance will increase by about the same amount for either raising your GPA by .1 or raising your MCAT by a point (ie if an increase of one point on the MCAT increases your chances by 2% then an increase of .1 in your GPA increases your chances by 2%)

For MCAT scores above 30, the value of an improved MCAT rapidly drops off. By the time you are at 33, it takes 3-5 points on the MCAT to equal the value of raising your GPA by .1 (ie if an increase of 1 point on the MCAT raises your chances by 2% then an increase of .1 in your GPA raises your chances by 6-10%)

My conclusion is that the value of an improved MCAT is not as high as that of an improved GPA once you pass a 30, and that this is exacerbated greatly once your MCAT is above a 33. That is on the premise that an improvement of .1 for GPA is a similar improvement to 1 point on the MCAT.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=838625

 

[BA11]

Looking at the acceptance rates I notice the following trends:

For MCAT scores below 30, there is an almost equal correlation between value of one point increase on the MCAT or .1 increase in GPA. In other words, if your MCAT is below 30, your percent chance of acceptance will increase by about the same amount for either raising your GPA by .1 or raising your MCAT by a point (ie if an increase of one point on the MCAT increases your chances by 2% then an increase of .1 in your GPA increases your chances by 2%)

For MCAT scores above 30, the value of an improved MCAT rapidly drops off. By the time you are at 33, it takes 3-5 points on the MCAT to equal the value of raising your GPA by .1 (ie if an increase of 1 point on the MCAT raises your chances by 2% then an increase of .1 in your GPA raises your chances by 6-10%)

My conclusion is that the value of an improved MCAT is not as high as that of an improved GPA once you pass a 30, and that this is exacerbated greatly once your MCAT is above a 33. That is on the premise that an improvement of .1 for GPA is a similar improvement to 1 point on the MCAT.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=838625

But considering that about 95% of accepted students have a 3.3 or higher GPA, it seems as if this stat is skewed. People with lower than a 3.3 get in about as often as people with lower than a 28 on the MCAT do. The MCAT range from there is 29-42 or 43, while the GPA range is 3.31 to 4.0. Using 1 and .1 as your measuring stick respectively, there is more room for upward mobility in the MCAT than GPA, so naturally the correlation will skew especially as one of the numbers gets really high. Not to mention that, by one's senior year, raising your GPA by more than .1 or .2 is very unlikely while rasing your MCAT score 3-5 points isnt uncommon.

 

[V5RED]

But considering that about 95% of accepted students have a 3.3 or higher GPA, it seems as if this stat is skewed. People with lower than a 3.3 get in about as often as people with lower than a 28 on the MCAT do. The MCAT range from there is 29-42 or 43, while the GPA range is 3.31 to 4.0. Using 1 and .1 as your measuring stick respectively, there is more room for upward mobility in the MCAT than GPA, so naturally the correlation will skew especially as one of the numbers gets really high. Not to mention that, by one's senior year, raising your GPA by more than .1 or .2 is very unlikely while rasing your MCAT score 3-5 points isnt uncommon.

I can't tell what your point is. I also don't know what "there" you are referencing with the ranges "29-42" or "3.31-4.0".

One thing I can comment on is that by GPA improvement I did not mean changing your GPA from one score to another. I meant that if your GPA were higher it would have a large impact. This is something you are supposed to work on throughout college, not just in your last year. I never made any mention of last ditch efforts to fix your scores, that is something you threw in on your own.

 

[flodhi1]

My conclusion is that the value of an improved MCAT is not as high as that of an improved GPA once you pass a 30, and that this is exacerbated greatly once your MCAT is above a 33. That is on the premise that an improvement of .1 for GPA is a similar improvement to 1 point on the MCAT.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=838625

Except quite a few Canadian school's don't even require the MCAT, and the ones that do have very low prerequisites. Only four Canadian MED schools I can think of have low GPA thresholds. Go here to see the requirements.

+1 OP some of the posters are forgetting that you're Canadian. Considering you're Canadian I think your GPA will hurt you a lot and needs the most attention. If you were a US resident it might have been a different story since some schools are some what forgiving of low GPAs as long as they see other strengths. By the way congratulations on the wonderful MCAT score!

 

[DocGodfather]

That's an unbelievable MCAT, and congrats! However, you are an international student, and if you're going for allopathic schools, you're going to struggle with a GPA in the 2.9-3.0 range. Thoughts about DO and their grade replacements?

 

[DocGodfather]

Thank u V5red! Btw I became my little brothers legal guardian in my second year. And that really was a big distraction to my studies and life.. Do you think they will take this family responsibility into consideration ever if I provide the legal guardian papers? It kinda indicates that I care about others rather than just focusing on my personal life right?

You can mention that in your personal statement as your life experience.

 

[shinbeats]

That's an unbelievable MCAT, and congrats! However, you are an international student, and if you're going for allopathic schools, you're going to struggle with a GPA in the 2.9-3.0 range. Thoughts about DO and their grade replacements?

This. He will get into DO even with a 2.9 because his MCAT is a monster but don't see MD happening sorry.

 

[V5RED]

Thank u V5red! Btw I became my little brothers legal guardian in my second year. And that really was a big distraction to my studies and life.. Do you think they will take this family responsibility into consideration ever if I provide the legal guardian papers? It kinda indicates that I care about others rather than just focusing on my personal life right?

I don't know how an admissions committee will feel about your application. I was just giving my analysis of the current data with regard to the impact of an MCAT score compared to a GPA.

I think your MCAT is very impressive, and the fact of you taking care of your brother says a lot about you as a person. I think that the potential to do well is probably there, but the GPA will be a huge barrier to get past.

 

[gmcguitar4]

Agreed the GPA will hold you back. When adcom sees applications..they will see plenty of students with compelling/tragic stories with mid 30 MCAT and average GPA that are US citizens. They probably would get picked over you any day of the week for MD schools. low GPA + international = unlikely MD. Do grade replacement for 1-2 years and get into any DO school of your choice..but still apply to MD just in case!

 

[dreamweaver1988]

Really interesting dilemma here... I think with a 4.0 semester this spring and maybe two classes for A credit over the summer, you will get accepted. In other words, get that GPA up a bit and you will have a pretty good chance, IMO. A 41 is just...wow... an upward trend, even a modest one, will show you can sustain a strong effort over a long period of time, as opposed to just preparing for a few months and raping the MCAT.

Keep us posted... and teach how me how to pimp the MCAT please!!!

 

[Goro]

This subject is of no end of debate for my colleagues on the AdCom. There is strong but ten year old data showing that the lower the MCAT the worse the outcome for MD students on borads and graduation. 25 is the magic line.

However, at my school, there is no correlation between MCAT performance and student performace in classes, and student GPA in medical school is a great predictor of how our students do on COMLEX. We've found only a weak link between MCAT and student performance on COMLEX, period.

So, it's going to boil down to who interviews you.

Overall, you have a killer MCAT score, and a cGPA in the low 3s might not be a kiss of death. Just don't apply to Harvard or Stanford.

Hi there.. I was wondering which one do u guys think is more important to med school? MCAT scores or GPA? I got 41P in MCAT but my GPA is totally screwed.. I got 3.0 in my first year but i didnt go to any of my finals in my second year Term1 and i dont have any doctor proof or whatever. And my second year gpa was like 2.1 or something... And then i got 3.6 in my third year and im in my 4th year right now.. Do u think theres still chances for me? (btw im Canadian).

Thank you so much!

 

[sliceofbread136]

Just curious, why did you make the decision to take the MCAT when your GPA was so low? You obviously studied really hard to get that score, where did you get the motivation when chances were so dim?

And congrats on an amazing score.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Lol my first year wasn't that bad until my parents went to Europe and sent my brother all over from Montreal to live with me at the very last minute without telling me anything at all. And yea I got mad at my parents and myself.

Working on my brothers custody papers, enrolling him to school, applying for the children benefits, health card, grocery shopping, cooking, helping him with the language and all those ****s were pretty much Ive been doing in my second year... We're French btw... Well I didn't really go to classes ever since midterm and I didn't even go to the finals.. Yeah I was insane.. And it turned out I failed 4 courses in term1.. And I got nearly a 4.0 for the second term..

And I decided to take the MCAt cus I've doing pretty good on my science courses..
Yeah.. That was about all the creepy GPA stories...

What an interesting story. Have you looked into retroactively withdrawing from the classes you failed? Would help you big time.

 

[collegestud2013]

http://www.mediafire.com/?5w79i811x5hd1d4

Instead of trying to assume a 1 point change in MCAT to 0.1 change in GPA which is kinda subjective and changes as a function of MCAT and GPA itself (as someone already mentioned), a better way is to convert both mcat and gpa scores to national percentiles using AAMC data, which I've done in the above graph of acceptance rate vs percentile for both GPA and MCAT using an estimated percentile of the midpoint MCAT and GPA in each range AAMC data breaks down. This allows both to be measured on the same scale.

Notice from the graph that a higher mcat leads to higher chances of admission than a higher gpa, while a lower gpa leads to higher chances of admission than a lower mcat. This suggests that on a national level someone with a higher MCAT and lower GPA (when measured by percentiles) is more likely to get accepted than a lower MCAT and higher GPA. The two lines intersect at around 44 percentile and 42% chance of admission, which corresponds to about a 3.5/28. So you can use 3.5 and 28 as the borderline for defining low/ high GPA and MCAT, respectively. Also, notice the slope of the MCAT line is generally steeper than the GPA line, suggesting that increasing your MCAT score will be more beneficial than increasing you GPA (and as someone already pointed out it's probably a lot easier to increase ur MCAT score than GPA).

Note that when I did the same exact type of analysis using on the the GPA/MCAT stats released by my undergrad school (a top 20), I got the opposite results than as above with national data. My rationalization is that since the grading at a top 20 is much more strict than, say state schools that are mostly represented in the overall national data, med school adcoms are likely to be more forgiving of a lower GPA. Thus in addition to what I found above I'd say that trend of MCAT trumping GPA only applies to schools with easier grading systems (ie state schools), and for schools with a more rigorous grading system GPA may trump MCAT.

 

[artsciencelove]

Schools want to know you are someone who will finish the 4 years of education, move on to residency, and give the name of the school a good reputation. Your application has to show you are determined to be a doctor. That might be by being a non-trad who went to night school for 2 years to get his pre-reqs, or you went to Africa and helped build a hospital, or you have 2000 hours of volunteering, etc, there are many ways to show your commitment.

I interviewed Monday with a director of admissions who told me they frequently reject high MCAT applicants who don't have evidence of this commitment, or ability to consistently succeed in classes. He said he suspects that people like that are merely good standardized test-takers.

Anyway, great MCAT score, but don't count on it getting you into med school. I'd say if you maintain that 3.6+ for your 4th year of undergrad, you will at least be able to open some doors to interviews. Be prepared to explain your poor performance in freshman and sophomore years in a way that does not blame others - take responsibility! Good luck!