McCain/Palin 2008

[SleepIsGood]

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Hey everyone, we're at the home stretch. Make sure you get out and vote.

Remember to vote for the ticket that is among many other things, better for physicians-->McCain/Palin

It's easy to be lazy and just stay at home, but seriously try to go out on Nov 4...every vote matters. Forget about what the polls say.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Remember to vote for the ticket that is among many other things, better for physicians-->McCain/Palin

 

[cockblockandrun]

Hey everyone, we're at the home stretch. Make sure you get out and vote.

Remember to vote for the ticket that is among many other things, better for physicians-->McCain/Palin

It's easy to be lazy and just stay at home, but seriously try to go out on Nov 4...every vote matters. Forget about what the polls say.

And better for the United States-----> Obama/Biden.
Sometimes we have to think of the greater good than our own selfish reasons

 

[Planktonmd]

 

[Gimlet]

(had to bust out the theater-style seating for this one)

 

[VolatileNavyDoc]

Fortunately, I already voted. I'm actually a Libertarian (If the first amendment doesn't work, the second will), but I couldn't bring myself to vote for Bob Barr this election. Since we vote absentee, I let my 6 year old participate. I just gave him a few basic hints on the 2 candidates and let him pick the one he wanted.

Obama: Highly intelligent, probably a good chess player (he likes chess). Has spent a lot of time fighting for the rights of underpriviliged people in the inner city. He looks nice and is not much older than Mommy and Daddy. He is more likely to use Daddy's money to help those who don't help themselves. Never in the military.

McCain: War hero. Much more likely to help those who help themselves. War hero (kind of like a Power Ranger). Has spent a lot of time fighting his own party in order to do the right thing. In the Navy (a big plus in my house). Much more likely to use our money to buy boots and warm clothes for the Marines who are in "the Afghanistan." Flew fighter jets. VP candidate is from Alaska where there are wolves, polar bears, Denali, and great skiing. Name starts with the same 2 letters as McDonald's.

 

[Bertelman]

You know, earlier today I was just thinking it's been almost a week since there was any serious discussion re: McCain/Obama.

 

[pgg]

You know, earlier today I was just thinking it's been almost a week since there was any serious discussion re: McCain/Obama.

That's 'cause the election was over two weeks ago. 😉

So, does anyone still think Palin helped the McCain ticket? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

 

[badasshairday]

copro enters this discussion in 3.....2......1......

 

[Arch Guillotti]

You know, earlier today I was just thinking it's been almost a week since there was any serious discussion re: McCain/Obama.

There is a definite association here...

 

[Arch Guillotti]

This is what talking politics makes me feel like doing.

 

[mille125]

Hey everyone, we're at the home stretch. Make sure you get out and vote.

Remember to vote for the ticket that is among many other things, better for physicians-->McCain/Palin

It's easy to be lazy and just stay at home, but seriously try to go out on Nov 4...every vote matters. Forget about what the polls say.

Explain to me how Palin/McCain is better for physicians. Dont say taxes because that is a bunch of bologna. If you have low taxes but your 401K is in the toilet and you cant get a loan to purchase medical equipment even with good credit because our government is dumping fistfuls of money in the Middle East, that cannot be a good situation. Please explain.

 

[RabbMD]

Well, do you know what a monopoly is? If we get a single payer system (which is what Obama in the past has said he wants) then we become complete price takers. I don't know how it works for you, but for me medicare pays around $19 A unit and the insurance companies pay around $45-$53. So assuming a single payer would pay even less than medicare (why wouldn't they, right now physicians can refuse medicare pts, if the gov't is the only game in town you can't refuse) you are looking at at least a 58% reduction in revenue ($45-19 = $26/$45) from your nonmedicare/medicaid payers. Unlike a lot of medicine our insurance companies at least in MD are not "only paying what medicare does" and yes, that is likely because our medicare rates are so low, but that is another story. Now, yes some of that revenue will be made up in reduction of unpaid claims, but unless your current payer mix is very high medicare/caid, or you have a very high unpaid claims rate you are going to lose revenue..... I guess we won't have to worry about those higher tax rates then huh?

Now I know Obama states he won't take away insurance from those who are happy with it. However, in actuality as his pool of insured increases then they will obtain the bargaining power and economies of scale to undercut private insurance companies on rates. Once companies realize they can save money by switching to the Obamacare provider, they will.

Imagine what would happen if there was only one airline company left to airfare. Now reverse that. The only hope we have is that the Washington politicians will decide to pay a fair rate once they have critical mass in the insurance pool. Of course Obama's idea of fairness is giving refundible $1000 checks to people that do not pay any income tax by taxing the wealthy plumbers of the world, and he is the MOST FAIR-MINDED of any of the dems in power. Compared to Pelosi he is almost Rush Limbaugh.

Yes, yes, follow up with the koolaid about it being "better for America" and "our patriotic duty." But the last time I checked the Liberal supermajority's great ideas were social security (can't I pretty please opt out now? You can keep the thousands I have already paid in), medicare, and the "great society."

 

[mille125]

Well, do you know what a monopoly is? If we get a single payer system (which is what Obama in the past has said he wants) then we become complete price takers. I don't know how it works for you, but for me medicare pays around $19 A unit and the insurance companies pay around $45-$53. So assuming a single payer would pay even less than medicare (why wouldn't they, right now physicians can refuse medicare pts, if the gov't is the only game in town you can't refuse) you are looking at at least a 58% reduction in revenue ($45-19 = $26/$45) from your nonmedicare/medicaid payers. Unlike a lot of medicine our insurance companies at least in MD are not "only paying what medicare does" and yes, that is likely because our medicare rates are so low, but that is another story. Now, yes some of that revenue will be made up in reduction of unpaid claims, but unless your current payer mix is very high medicare/caid, or you have a very high unpaid claims rate you are going to lose revenue..... I guess we won't have to worry about those higher tax rates then huh?

Now I know Obama states he won't take away insurance from those who are happy with it. However, in actuality as his pool of insured increases then they will obtain the bargaining power and economies of scale to undercut private insurance companies on rates. Once companies realize they can save money by switching to the Obamacare provider, they will.

Imagine what would happen if there was only one airline company left to airfare. Now reverse that. The only hope we have is that the Washington politicians will decide to pay a fair rate once they have critical mass in the insurance pool. Of course Obama's idea of fairness is giving refundible $1000 checks to people that do not pay any income tax by taxing the wealthy plumbers of the world, and he is the MOST FAIR-MINDED of any of the dems in power. Compared to Pelosi he is almost Rush Limbaugh.

Yes, yes, follow up with the koolaid about it being "better for America" and "our patriotic duty." But the last time I checked the Liberal supermajority's great ideas were social security (can't I pretty please opt out now? You can keep the thousands I have already paid in), medicare, and the "great society."

Obama is not in favor of a single payer healthcare system. Read his proposal.


A single payer healthcare system will never happen. Not because of us but because of insurance. Do you think that the Cignas and BCBS and United's of the world are just going to roll over and watch their billions of profits go away? Come on, this will never happen. They are the biggest and most successful lobbyist in the game. Remember what happened to the vote on the temporary patch to medicare rates. Politicians voted against the temporary fix because it might punish some insurance companies. California and Arnold toyed with a single payer system. How long did that last? Big insurance put the clamps on it. A single payer system is not coming no matter who is in office.

 

[MAC10]

Remember to vote for the ticket that is among many other things, better for physicians-->McCain/Palin.

 

[RabbMD]

Read here on Obama's own website. So yes Obama is doing some double talk on single payers but on his own website he says both he prefers a single payer system if he started from scratch, AND we may end up going there.

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/01/05/fact_check_obama_consistent_in.php

I will paraphrase though....

Obama: If we were starting from scratch I would prefer a single payer system.

And then

Obama: Over time it may be that we end up transitioning to such a system [single payer system].

 

[periopdoc]

That's 'cause the election was over two weeks ago. 😉

So, does anyone still think Palin helped the McCain ticket? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

As an Alaskan who has followed Palin's career since she ran for Mayor of Wasilla, I believe she could have been a much more effective player in this election than she has been allowed to be.

Ever since she was introduced it seems as if she is playing a caricature of herself instead of being herself. McCain could have just picked Tina Fey if that is what he wanted. Is it just the pressure of the national limelight or is someone in the McCain campaign holding the reigns too tightly? I don't know.

It will be really interesting to see some of the post-election polling data. I suspect that she is going to draw a fairly large contingent of hard-core conservative and single issue voters who, like my mom, have not voted since Reagan. Mom called me the day after the Palin announcement to tell me that she had registered to vote.

I doubt it will have any significant impact on the outcome of the election, but it may well make some of the state races a little closer. People like my mom don't figure into polls too well.

Ultimately, I think she did exactly what McCain wanted, which was to shore up the hard core conservative vote. That was a tactic that served Bush well in his two elections. However, I think McCain miscalculated both the unity of the religious vote and his own appeal to non-partisan, middle of the road, swing voters. Who knows whether a more moderate VP would have improved his numbers?

While I may not agree with her politics, I have been quite impressed with Palin as a politician prior to this campaign. Only time will tell if she can regain some of that mojo.

- pod

 

[starsop93]

As an Alaskan who has followed Palin's career since she ran for Mayor of Wasilla, I believe she could have been a much more effective player in this election than she has been allowed to be.

While I may not agree with her politics, I have been quite impressed with Palin as a politician prior to this campaign. Only time will tell if she can regain some of that mojo.

- pod

Not so sure. "It came down to whether to make Palin look like a scripted robot or an unscripted ignoramus."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/28/top-mccain-aides-palin-si_n_138724.html

 

[periopdoc]

Not so sure. "It came down to whether to make Palin look like a scripted robot or an unscripted ignoramus."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/28/top-mccain-aides-palin-si_n_138724.html

Ignorance of, or at least the appearance of ignorance of, national and international issues hasn't seemed to hinder national political success recently.

There is a large segment of the US population that simply doesn't care about which Bush doctrine Gibson may have been referring to, who think that The Pledge of Allegiance is probably 230 years old and included "Under God" in the original phraseology, and to whom Roe v Wade is the only important Supreme Court decision that exists (although some might also cite D.C. vs Heller).

Many of them are single issue voters who could care less about any other political strength or weakness as long as the person they are voting for is anti-abortion.

Many of them believe that evolution is "a lie of the devil." They will vote for the more conservative christian of the bunch despite what path that candidate might take our country down. "God will take care of it if we are faithful to appoint good christian leaders." etc.

Many of them firmly believe that the government's sole goal in life is to take away their firearms. They will vote for the candidate who is least likely to further that "antigun agenda."

The third group tends to be more politically active, and the first two tend to sit on their hands on election day. However, given the right candidate, all three may well get off their butts and alter the elections.

Like I said, I can't wait to see the exit polling data.

- pod

 

[KNC]

Ignorance of, or at least the appearance of ignorance of, national and international issues hasn't seemed to hinder national political success recently.

There is a large segment of the US population that simply doesn't care about which Bush doctrine Gibson may have been referring to, who think that The Pledge of Allegiance is probably 230 years old and included "Under God" in the original phraseology, and to whom Roe v Wade is the only important Supreme Court decision that exists (although some might also cite D.C. vs Heller).

Many of them are single issue voters who could care less about any other political strength or weakness as long as the person they are voting for is anti-abortion.

Many of them believe that evolution is "a lie of the devil." They will vote for the more conservative christian of the bunch despite what path that candidate might take our country down. "God will take care of it if we are faithful to appoint good christian leaders." etc.

Many of them firmly believe that the government's sole goal in life is to take away their firearms. They will vote for the candidate who is least likely to further that "antigun agenda."

The third group tends to be more politically active, and the first two tend to sit on their hands on election day. However, given the right candidate, all three may well get off their butts and alter the elections.

Like I said, I can't wait to see the exit polling data.

- pod

I am under the impression that you think she(Palin) acted and talked like an uneducated fool all for the purposes of helping McCain.....After she made her stupid fruitfly comment in her stump speech about autism, I beg to disagree....."If the shoe fits".....For all those who do not know what was said....She said something like " We need to stop spending money on research on things like the fruitfly and spend it on real research for those in need".......Someone should have told her that it is the fruitfly that is helping us find out about many of the diseases that afflict humans today....but anyway.....I thought I would throw this question out there; Since when did the Republican party pick up Jesus as part of their party faithful? From what I read of the Bible, Jesus didn't really care for the rich people and He was very socialist in his views also......."Like give to the poor".....So when did the extreme right attach to the Republican ticket?

 

[Bertelman]

So when did the extreme right attach to the Republican ticket?

Anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, "family values", etc.

 

[KNC]

Anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, "family values", etc.

So when did those things that you mentioned become a Republican view? We have men meeting other men in bathroom stalls....We have women who won't take birthcontrol but will use Plan B(the morning after pill) as their option after unprotected sex and the abortion clinics in secret. Family values....there are soooo many men out there with power and money cheating on their wives (and vice versa)!! That is absurd!! Religon and government need and should always be kept separate. No religious group should be endorsing anyone let alone choosing sides....

 

[Bertelman]

So when did those things that you mentioned become a Republican view? We have men meeting other men in bathroom stalls....We have women who won't take birthcontrol but will use Plan B(the morning after pill) as their option after unprotected sex and the abortion clinics in secret. Family values....there are soooo many men out there with power and money cheating on their wives (and vice versa)!! That is absurd!! Religon and government need and should always be kept separate. No religious group should be endorsing anyone let alone choosing sides....

I agree that the "religious right" is often full of contradiction. I'm just telling you what they claim. Pastors cheat on their wives, Priests molest kids, but that doesn't stop them from claiming moral superiority. I never sugested they live up to their ideals.

 

[pgg]

As an Alaskan who has followed Palin's career since she ran for Mayor of Wasilla, I believe she could have been a much more effective player in this election than she has been allowed to be.

Ever since she was introduced it seems as if she is playing a caricature of herself instead of being herself. McCain could have just picked Tina Fey if that is what he wanted. Is it just the pressure of the national limelight or is someone in the McCain campaign holding the reigns too tightly? I don't know.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. There's no media conspiracy and this isn't just a handling issue. She looks like a caricature because that's what she is.

She's a backwater local politician who has never been interested enough in national or global politics to pay the slightest bit of attention. That would be fine if she stayed in Alaska, or only aspired to represent Alaskans (eg in the House or Senate), but she's running for national office. She's a scientifically illiterate fundamentalist who is openly hostile to and contemptuous of book learnin' and science. She's insular and secretive.

She's a good politician for the small stage of a red state like Alaska. She'll enjoy a long career as governor and probably Senator if she wants it. The scrutiny and demands of a national campaign have exposed her for what she really is, however.

Did McCain mismanage her? Probably. God knows he's mismanaged every other facet of this 3-ring circus of a campaign. She would have been a liability even under optimal circumstances though.

I doubt it will have any significant impact on the outcome of the election, but it may well make some of the state races a little closer. People like my mom don't figure into polls too well.

What do you mean? Unless your mom doesn't have a permanent address or a phone, why wouldn't she figure into polls just as well as everyone else?

If there's really any polling bias, it probably favors Obama.

 

[SleepIsGood]

good job fellow republicans!

as of the latest polls...McCain is gaining momentum and is narrowing the gap!!

We can make this happen!

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

So when did those things that you mentioned become a Republican view? We have men meeting other men in bathroom stalls....We have women who won't take birthcontrol but will use Plan B(the morning after pill) as their option after unprotected sex and the abortion clinics in secret. Family values....there are soooo many men out there with power and money cheating on their wives (and vice versa)!! That is absurd!! Religon and government need and should always be kept separate. No religious group should be endorsing anyone let alone choosing sides....

Great book on the subject that explains how:

http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225374708&sr=8-1

 

[Bertelman]

good job fellow republicans!

as of the latest polls...McCain is gaining momentum and is narrowing the gap!!

We can make this happen!

Which polls are these? Last I saw, Obama is within 10 electoral votes of an outright win without counting to 80 or so votes in battleground states. Basically, if he gets one of those states, ANY of those states, it's done.

That may happen by 9 p.m. EST.

 

[pgg]

Which polls are these? Last I saw, Obama is within 10 electoral votes of an outright win without counting to 80 or so votes in battleground states. Basically, if he gets one of those states, ANY of those states, it's done.

That may happen by 9 p.m. EST.

Where are you getting a 10 vote deficit?

344 - 193: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ (some left bias, but methodologically by far the best tracker)
311 - 142 with 85 tossup: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ (some right bias)
375 - 157 with 7 tied: http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Right-leaning sites like Fox News and Drudge cherrypick national polls for their headlines, when they should be ignoring the Kansases (Kansasese? Kansi?) and Californias and looking at Virginia and Ohio and Florida and Colorado and Pennsylvania ... or even North Carolina or Missouri. This election is not close if you look at an EV map.

But a "close" election and good underdog story makes the news exciting, so it leads.

Polls tighten in every election during the last week, as the undecided share shrinks. But even as McCain has (probably but not certainly) picked up a point or two nationally, the odds of him closing the rest of the distance shrink. McCain's out of time. He needed to catch up a month ago. Instead we got Joe the Plumber and BobTito the Builder, and whatever that chick from Alaska felt like doing on any given day, while McCain kept shifting gears on his unicycle while playing clown music for the circus.

The only questions remaining in this election are

• Will Obama win comfortably, or by a 100+ EV landslide
• Will McCain lose with dignity and grace (magic 8 ball says yes)
• Will Palin lose with dignity and grace (magic 8 ball says no)
• Will the Democrats get a 60 seat majority in the Senate (probably not, even counting those two Independents)
• Will the Republicans riot over a loss, blaming voter fraud and ACORN (probably not; Dems are the rioting types, Repubs are the tense quiet teeth-gnashing angry seethers who go clean their AR15s one more time)

Barring an assassination, the presidential election is done.

Perhaps even more disappointing than McCain's horrific campaign is the denial amongst the faithful, who seem to think the party isn't broken, that the campaign failed because of that durn liberal media, and that McCain is making a comeback. McCain should be campaigning in areas where he might help House/Senate candidates in close elections, not wasting his time in Pennsylvania. He's going down in flames, denial and attack 'til the end, when he could be trying to shore up his party in the Senate.


In related election news, I'm going order an AR15 today. Always wanted one, and since they'll be more expensive next Wednesday and banned by February, it's time to get one. My brother's trying to talk me out of buying a ".22 varmint-shooting gun" and get a Kalashnikov. I'm dubious. My wife says we should get both. So ... off to the anesthesiology gun threads.

 

[RabbMD]

Read here on Obama's own website. So yes Obama is doing some double talk on single payers but on his own website he says both he prefers a single payer system if he started from scratch, AND we may end up going there.

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/01/05/fact_check_obama_consistent_in.php

I will paraphrase though....

Obama: If we were starting from scratch I would prefer a single payer system.

And then

Obama: Over time it may be that we end up transitioning to such a system [single payer system].

I guess everyone then agrees that Obama actually is in favor of a single payer system, but he just realizes he can't get it passed right away based on the fact no one seems to refute that is what his own website says. Of course if you think a single payer system would be good for anesthesia, I would have to disagree, but we could at least debate taht instead of who is going ot win (don't worry I know it will be Obama I am just hoping for some balance with a fillabuster in the senate to prevent a new medicare/SS like plan).

 

[Frank Rizzo]

In related election news, I'm going order an AR15 today. Always wanted one, and since they'll be more expensive next Wednesday and banned by February, it's time to get one. My brother's trying to talk me out of buying a ".22 varmint-shooting gun" and get a Kalashnikov. I'm dubious. My wife says we should get both. So ... off to the anesthesiology gun threads.

Your wife is awesome!

 

[Bertelman]

Where are you getting a 10 vote deficit?

344 - 193: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ (some left bias, but methodologically by far the best tracker)
311 - 142 with 85 tossup: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ (some right bias)
375 - 157 with 7 tied: http://www.electoral-vote.com/

NYTimes, which I believe uses an amalgam of many different polls, but I'm not really sure.

This morning, I though they had him listed as ~263.

Now it looks like Obama 286, McCain 163, and 86 tossup.

 

[mille125]

I guess everyone then agrees that Obama actually is in favor of a single payer system, but he just realizes he can't get it passed right away based on the fact no one seems to refute that is what his own website says. Of course if you think a single payer system would be good for anesthesia, I would have to disagree, but we could at least debate taht instead of who is going ot win (don't worry I know it will be Obama I am just hoping for some balance with a fillabuster in the senate to prevent a new medicare/SS like plan).

No one thinks that a single payer system is good and it would never pass just like a total band on oil would never pass

 

[SleepIsGood]

Go McCain !