Obama v. McCain

[climbingdocs]

Funny how much of the tenor of the campaign has now changed, instead, to talk about how "MILF"-ie Sarah Palin is, isn't it?

-copro

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[Southpaw]

Great posting Copro!

 

[RabbMD]

I would not be happy but I at least could understand raising my taxes $15K a year if it was intended to shrink the deficit and actually pay back the national debt our idiot country has allowed to occur paying for things we can not afford. However, anyone who has any knowledge must acknowledge that Obama unlike Clinton is a fiscal liberal. He has promised away the ENTIRETY of his tax increases to either new programs OR tax cuts to the poor (actually probably both he will infact likely both raise the deficit AND raise taxes on the "wealthy"). So my $15K in taxes are actually going to go not towards the deficit, but towards $1000 tax breaks/CREDITS for 10 people who will instead of investing/saving the $1000 to actually HELP OUT our countries horrific savings rate and provide the financial markets with much needed liquidity, they are going to buy a new flat screen TV.

That TV is going to sit in their forclosure proceeding but now bailed out house. The occupants will get all their medical care at the ER because they "can't affords medical insurance" and still be entitled to their Imported 2006 SUV. They complain about the price of gas, they have $10000 in credit card debt that they are hopping to get their own "bailout" because AIG did.

Seriously, if taxes actaully went to paying off the debt fine, but they are going to WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION because the wealthy sacrificed and went to school, so they have to keep doing their high schools group assignment for the rest of their lifes.

 

[pgg]

Explain.

Well, here's a short list off the top of my head.

• Until recently she denied that climate change was occurring at all and is still "skeptical" that humans have contributed to such changes. Considering she's the governor of our northernmost state, where the changes to date have been most profound, that's especially appalling.
• Being able to see Russia across the water is her primary claim to foreign relations competence.
• She's exaggerated her "trip of a lifetime" to a "military outpost" in Iraq in order to ... oh, hell, I have no idea why. Turns out she visited the Iraq-Kuwait border, and one of her other momentous destinations was a refueling stop where she never got off the plane. It reminded me of Hillary's sniper story - transparent exaggeration in order to pretend to be or have done something you're not.
• She favors teaching creationism and intelligent design alongside evolution in public schools. Whether or not she ever attempts to use her office to impose this agenda upon us is questionable; what's unquestionable is that people who want to teach this "controversy" are as foolish and scientifically illiterate as those who'd claim the atomic theory of matter is "just a theory" and would like to teach the "controversy" between the periodic table and the earth-air-fire-water theory.
• She uses a Yahoo email account to conduct official business. Either she's taking a page out of the Bush secrecy book and doing it to avoid recordkeeping requirements and freedom of information act issues, or she's a ***** who thinks Yahoo mail is an appropriately secure and professional medium of exchange. Neither are traits I can respect. Note that I'm not defending or condoning the illegal hack here.
• She's an abstinence-only advocate with silly ideas about sex ed. Like the creationism in schools issue, even if she doesn't push this as a policy, the simple fact that a prominent elected official advocates such a ridiculous thing is dangerous.
• However big a douchebag that trooper is (and it sounds like he's a first class loser), and however much he deserved to be fired, it appears likely that she has abused her power and lied about her involvement in the whole thing (only to later admit that her office made 20+ phone calls pushing for the public safety commissioner to be fired). Her refusal to comply with subpoenas and the investigation is another page out of Bush's book.
• She may be more articulate and photogenic than Bush, but her absolute inability to stray from her prepared talking points in the interviews I've seen is ridiculous. That Gibson interview in particular was like watching someone pull the string on a talking Malibu Stacey doll. I half-expected her to pipe up "Let's make cookies for the boys!"
• She wanted the so-called bridge to nowhere built, and worked to secure funding for it, until it became a political liability. She's been the absolute antithesis of small government and responsible spending. Look at how she left Wasila.
• She fired and then rehired a librarian who balked at her request to "live with censorship of library books." Next up, we'll be burning witches.
• She's a hardcore religious right superconservative.
• She's a hardcore religious right superconservative. Yes, I wrote that twice.

 

[ZoidbergMD]

Seriously, if taxes actaully went to paying off the debt fine, but they are going to WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION because the wealthy sacrificed and went to school, so they have to keep doing their high schools group assignment for the rest of their lifes.

Great analogy! I always hated assigned group assignments because someone always had to pick up the slack for someone else, usually the slacker misfit. (sounds kinda like Obama's ideas). The only time group assignments worked is when we got to pick our groups and choose whether or not to help peers in need (sounds like republican ideas of giving voluntarily to charitible organizations, instead of taxing you differently because of your hardwork)

 

[pgg]

Funny how much of the tenor of the campaign has now changed, instead, to talk about how "MILF"-ie Sarah Palin is, isn't it?

-copro

I believe the appropriate term is VPILF candidate.

 

[climbingdocs]

I believe the appropriate term is VPILF candidate.

 

[GassiusClay]

Anyone here see the old South Park episode about the school losing a Native American mascot and then voting for either turd sandwich or douche bag as a replacement?

That was Kerry and Bush.
Now it is Obama and McCain.
Things haven't changed.

Obama: Supposedly "lived off" food stamps. Really, I'm sure growing up with his maternal grandparents in Hawaii dealt with a lot of food stamps. I assume he had a short period (probably weeks) while he was with his irresponsible mother, but that likes saying I lived in a third world country when I was only their for 3 months. Embellishment. His mother who he always praises seems to have an interesting life journey versus just taking care of her kid (going to Indonesia to screw another dude or whatever, stay with grandma). He is a great speaker and seems to glamorize a childhood that might not have been "inspirational." Plus, he only worked on the Sox Side for a few months before becoming a fairly whatever Senator. He should win when his opponent was a lunatic black Republican. What did he do as Senator? Oh run for president. WTF!!

McCain: McSame. Yes, he apparently loves Bush as much as Obama sucks Clinton's **** and gives her more than deserved time at the DNC to talk a bunch of BS. Each politician sides with their "incumbents" because that's what gangs do. McCain is not an intellectual, but just playing the game as all politicians do. Does he offer anything original? Probably not except mentioning use of alternative fuels before other "mainstream" politicians. The only credible part for him is actually serving in the military. He actually knows how to deal with that kind of stress. And Palin doesn't help him, but every time anybody slings mud at

Conclusion: BOTH DESERVE TO GET TEA-BAGGED. Vote for an independent just for your own soul's sake versus turd sandwich or douche bag. Better yet, let's have both of them go on American Idol and we can just text in our votes.

Save us Ron Paul! We need a third party, a Libertarian party! Screw bailing people out for their stupid mistakes.

 

[coprolalia]

I would not be happy but I at least could understand raising my taxes $15K a year if it was intended to shrink the deficit and actually pay back the national debt our idiot country has allowed to occur paying for things we can not afford.

Why raise anyone's taxes?

Start here:

http://www.cagw.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10116

-copro

 

[coprolalia]

Well, here's a short list off the top of my head.

• Until recently she denied that climate change was occurring at all and is still "skeptical" that humans have contributed to such changes. Considering she's the governor of our northernmost state, where the changes to date have been most profound, that's especially appalling.

I'm with her on this. No one can prove that humanity is causing global warming, and drastic measures to change our behavior would likely have little effect and/or cause irreparable harm to the global economy if implemented too quickly.

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

• Being able to see Russia across the water is her primary claim to foreign relations competence.

She has no foreign relations experience. Period. Big deal. Clinton didn't either, and he brokered two meetings between Israel and Palestine during his presidency in Maryland. Plus, if I recall correctly, John McCain is actually the one running for president, and if my memory serves me right, isn't he the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee? How does that experience compare to Obama's, a junior Senator who went on a junket recently to eastern Europe and the Middle East and posed for a bunch of pretty pictures?

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.politics.bush/2008-07/msg01517.html

• She's exaggerated her "trip of a lifetime" to a "military outpost" in Iraq in order to ... oh, hell, I have no idea why. Turns out she visited the Iraq-Kuwait border, and one of her other momentous destinations was a refueling stop where she never got off the plane. It reminded me of Hillary's sniper story - transparent exaggeration in order to pretend to be or have done something you're not.

Well, Palin didn't outright lie about being shot at by snipers. Secondly, she herself didn't say that she visited Ireland (in which, technically, she did while her plane landed for refueling), someone in her press camp did... someone who, I'm sure, doesn't talk to the media anymore. As far as the trip to the war zone, good for her. Has Biden been there?
Does he have a son that's serving? Oh yeah! He does, and of that he said...

"I don't want him going!

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/20/bidens_son_off_to_iraq.html

• She favors teaching creationism and intelligent design alongside evolution in public schools. Whether or not she ever attempts to use her office to impose this agenda upon us is questionable; what's unquestionable is that people who want to teach this "controversy" are as foolish and scientifically illiterate as those who'd claim the atomic theory of matter is "just a theory" and would like to teach the "controversy" between the periodic table and the earth-air-fire-water theory.

Irrelevant. This is not for her to decide. I don't care about her views on abortion, breastfeeding, child-rearing, gun control, prayer in schools, etc., etc., etc., because they are irrelevant. Bush, probably the most openly "born again Christian" ever to occupy the White House, had no impact on these issues over the past eight years. The only thing remotely religious he did, in that vein, was veto the 2005 bill approving federal funding for stem cell research. Now, ask yourself where that bill originated... I'll give you a hint... it wasn't the Oval Office.

Guess what again? Clinton, in 1995, vowed not to approve federal funding for stem cell research either. He only reversed himself (slightly) in 1999.

Guess what... yet again? Embryonic stem cell research is still legal in the U.S., you just can't apply for federal grant money for it. Now, know what I think about that? GOOD! Why should the U.S. Federal Government be in the business of funding research that can and should be done in private institutions of higher learning and private industry? While some of the research the NIH does has been excellent, most of it is wasteful and pointless. The bulk of the Human Genome Project was completed in private institutions, and would've likely taken decades to complete without the collaboration of private industry and Universities.

http://news.alibaba.com/article/detail/knowledge/100000720-1-what-studies-you-pay.html

So, LSS, I hate it when people dredge up these type of "distractor" issues in trying to discredit someone. This is what people focus on, switching of their brains, and using their hearts (or, worse, guts) to try to decide an election. It's truly sad. Can't you see through the ruse, even if they are true? Be smarter.

• She uses a Yahoo email account to conduct official business. Either she's taking a page out of the Bush secrecy book and doing it to avoid recordkeeping requirements and freedom of information act issues, or she's a ***** who thinks Yahoo mail is an appropriately secure and professional medium of exchange. Neither are traits I can respect. Note that I'm not defending or condoning the illegal hack here.

False dilemma. Maybe she's just trying to save taxpayer money by using a system that is already in place, in lieu of paying some huge consulting fee to some company to provide a "secure" service (yeah, we all know from Linda Tripp's emails just how secure the White House's server is...)

How about the fact that she sold the Alaskan Governor's private jet? How about the fact that she dismissed the Governor's personal chef? How about the fact that she drives herself to work?

People pick on petty little bullsh*t like this, and forget about how she got rid of fluff in her own office.

• She's an abstinence-only advocate with silly ideas about sex ed. Like the creationism in schools issue, even if she doesn't push this as a policy, the simple fact that a prominent elected official advocates such a ridiculous thing is dangerous.

See my comments about the "teaching creationism" thing above.

• However big a douchebag that trooper is (and it sounds like he's a first class loser), and however much he deserved to be fired, it appears likely that she has abused her power and lied about her involvement in the whole thing (only to later admit that her office made 20+ phone calls pushing for the public safety commissioner to be fired). Her refusal to comply with subpoenas and the investigation is another page out of Bush's book.

Has she refused to comply with supoenas? I don't think so. Get your facts straight. What she is doing is entirely different, and it is as political as your statement above. Right or wrong... Clinton did the same maneuvering when Kenneth Starr tried to fry him, and he was ultimately impeached. Was Clinton wrong for trying to legally protect himself too?

Secondly, do you know what actually happened there, or are you just believing what the media said? What if you had an employee who did not fulfill his job requirements? Would you politically keep him/her on because you were afraid of what they might say about you? I think that's called, in no uncertain terms, extortion. Are you so sure that Walt Monegan wasn't fired simply because he was a sh*tty commissioner?

Talk about a rush to judgment.

• She may be more articulate and photogenic than Bush, but her absolute inability to stray from her prepared talking points in the interviews I've seen is ridiculous. That Gibson interview in particular was like watching someone pull the string on a talking Malibu Stacey doll. I half-expected her to pipe up "Let's make cookies for the boys!"

Whatever. Your smelly opinion. She'll have her turn with Biden on October 2nd at Wash U.

• She wanted the so-called bridge to nowhere built, and worked to secure funding for it, until it became a political liability. She's been the absolute antithesis of small government and responsible spending. Look at how she left Wasila.

She never wanted the bridge built. She accepted the funding, though. However, he who lives in glass houses should not throw stones...

Illinois, to date, has received $286M in earmarks. Isn't that Senator Obama's state?

That's 2008 we're talking about, sports fans. Not aggregrate. Just this year.

Okay, Arizona has received $65M. But, population-wise, that pales in comparison to Illinois (115% more, per person, earmark funding in Illinois... just this year alone). Remember... Congress votes for earmarks, not Governors of States. Giving back an earmark, if you are a Governor, is political suicide. Don't hate the playa, hate the game. Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

http://earmarks.omb.gov/2008-appropriations-by-state/summary.html

http://www.census.gov/popest/states/NST-ann-est.html

• She fired and then rehired a librarian who balked at her request to "live with censorship of library books." Next up, we'll be burning witches.

Source please. I think you got this story slightly wrong (don't trust the blogs you are reading).

Here is what actually happened (and, duly note, the librarian in question has not yet publicly discussed the incident).

http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html

Of note...

Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed.

... and...

Four days before the exchange at the City Council, Emmons got a letter from Palin asking for her resignation. Similar letters went to police chief Irl Stambaugh, public works director Jack Felton and finance director Duane Dvorak. John Cooper, a fifth director, resigned after Palin eliminated his job overseeing the city museum.


Palin told the Daily News back then the letters were just a test of loyalty as she took on the mayor's job, which she'd won from three-term mayor John Stein in a hard-fought election. Stein had hired many of the department heads. Both Emmons and Stambaugh had publicly supported him against Palin.

Okay, so let's see these letters. You guys have no real idea how small-time, local politics works, do you? If you think this is seedy, go sit at some local school-board meetings.

Or, maybe you are suggesting that Obama should keep Bush's cabinet when he gets elected?

• She's a hardcore religious right superconservative.
• She's a hardcore religious right superconservative. Yes, I wrote that twice.

Again, who cares? This is irrelevant to being an effective elected official (see above).

Thanks for your opinions, though. Next.

-copro

 

[climbingdocs]

I'm with her on this. No one can prove that humanity is causing global warming, and drastic measures to change our behavior would likely have little effect and/or cause irreparable harm to the global economy if implemented too quickly.

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/


-copro

ha, I actually agree with you on something!

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/bjorn_lomborg_sets_global_priorities.html

 

[gclax30]

Save us Ron Paul! We need a third party, a Libertarian party! Screw bailing people out for their stupid mistakes.

 

[pgg]

Thanks for your opinions, though. Next.

Today I caught a bit of her on TV, and she actually talked about a medical student finishing school with $250K of educational debt and struggling to start a practice. I'll give her credit for not jumping on the rich-bad-doctor ride, and it gives me some hope that any McCain-Palin nationalized healthcare wouldn't deliberately stick it to us.

She reminds me so much of Bush. Deeply religious, gut-trusting, insular, secretive, anti-science. It disturbs me that the Americans who are most excited and enthusiastic about her are those who dwell on the religious right. I have basic disagreements with that bloc on many issues and their fervent support for her is about as red as a red flag can get.

Maybe the best I can hope for is a McCain win followed by four years of his continued spontaneous respiration. A month ago I'd have been OK with either candidate winning. At least with Obama we'd be tripling the presidential IQ, even though I am quite wary of some of Obama's actual plans. But now, with that Tina Fey lookalike in tow, I've got to worry about McCain somehow pulling it off and then dropping dead.

 

[Tenesma]

Well, here's a short list off the top of my head.

• Until recently she denied that climate change was occurring at all and is still "skeptical" that humans have contributed to such changes. Considering she's the governor of our northernmost state, where the changes to date have been most profound, that's especially appalling.
  
  show me any science that PROVES that humankind is responsible for global warming... I am not disputing that Global Warming is occurring - but please show me good science (i hope they taught critical reading at your med school).... Global Warming is a cyclical phenomenon... All that science has right now is that there is an increasing trend in CO2 in the air, and increasing temperature patterns.... I wonder if we should blame the Dinosaurs for their contribution to global warming that led to the melting of the glaciers that extended all the way to Utah??
  
  
• Being able to see Russia across the water is her primary claim to foreign relations competence.
  
  show me a direct quote where she states that seeing russia is her claim to foreign relations competence... the truth is that Alaska deals with Russia on a regular basis as far as mining and fishing rights go. Since when is foreign relations competence a determining factor in choosing a president or vice-president. Bush had NO foreign relations experience. Clinton had NO foreign relation experience. Gore had NO foreign relation experience. Quayle had NO foreign relation experience. Reagan had NO foreign relation experience... The only 2 people in the last 20 years who had foreign relation experience were Bush Senior and Cheney.... your point?
  
• She's exaggerated her "trip of a lifetime" to a "military outpost" in Iraq in order to ... oh, hell, I have no idea why. Turns out she visited the Iraq-Kuwait border, and one of her other momentous destinations was a refueling stop where she never got off the plane. It reminded me of Hillary's sniper story - transparent exaggeration in order to pretend to be or have done something you're not.
  
  show me the quote where she exaggerated her trip to Kuwait and getting close to the Iraq border - or are you just regurgitating liberal talking points? If we are going to talk about exaggeration, let's talk about the admitted plagiarism of Biden of Kinnock's speeches? Or how about when Gore claimed he invented the Internet?
  
• She favors teaching creationism and intelligent design alongside evolution in public schools. Whether or not she ever attempts to use her office to impose this agenda upon us is questionable; what's unquestionable is that people who want to teach this "controversy" are as foolish and scientifically illiterate as those who'd claim the atomic theory of matter is "just a theory" and would like to teach the "controversy" between the periodic table and the earth-air-fire-water theory.
  
  again show me SOMETHING to support that she has implemented policies promoting teaching evolution in the alaska public school system...
  
• She uses a Yahoo email account to conduct official business. Either she's taking a page out of the Bush secrecy book and doing it to avoid recordkeeping requirements and freedom of information act issues, or she's a ***** who thinks Yahoo mail is an appropriately secure and professional medium of exchange. Neither are traits I can respect. Note that I'm not defending or condoning the illegal hack here.
  
  any proof that she used Yahoo email accounts for state business?
  
• She's an abstinence-only advocate with silly ideas about sex ed. Like the creationism in schools issue, even if she doesn't push this as a policy, the simple fact that a prominent elected official advocates such a ridiculous thing is dangerous.
  
  abstinence is the only 100% way of avoiding STDs and pregnancy... prove me wrong... Do you realize the number of STDs that are transmitted despite barrier methods? Do you realize the number of pregnancies that occur despite contraception?
  
• However big a douchebag that trooper is (and it sounds like he's a first class loser), and however much he deserved to be fired, it appears likely that she has abused her power and lied about her involvement in the whole thing (only to later admit that her office made 20+ phone calls pushing for the public safety commissioner to be fired). Her refusal to comply with subpoenas and the investigation is another page out of Bush's book.
  
  the police officer tasered his step-son... i am sure that you would want to keep him on the police force... she didn't fire the trooper... she fired the public safety commissioner - and as far as I remember the chief of the executive branch can fire anybody he/she wants in the executive branch...
  
• She may be more articulate and photogenic than Bush, but her absolute inability to stray from her prepared talking points in the interviews I've seen is ridiculous. That Gibson interview in particular was like watching someone pull the string on a talking Malibu Stacey doll. I half-expected her to pipe up "Let's make cookies for the boys!"
  
  agreed. - she sticks to her talking points... but show me a politician who doesn't.
  
• She wanted the so-called bridge to nowhere built, and worked to secure funding for it, until it became a political liability. She's been the absolute antithesis of small government and responsible spending. Look at how she left Wasila.
  
  she was in favor of expanding infra-structure in Alaska - when you are the governor of Alaska, and you state is 30 years behind the rest of the contiguous 48 in infrastructure development, then it makes sense to take whatever your congressional reps can bring back from washington...
  
  as far as her home-town: she eliminated property tax (when did your mayor do that for you? and replaced it with a sales tax (remember there is no income tax in Alaska) that almost tripled the revenue for that town - which should more than pay off the sports/complex she funded.
  
  
• She fired and then rehired a librarian who balked at her request to "live with censorship of library books." Next up, we'll be burning witches.
  
  again - the chief of the executive can fire and hire at will.... there is nothing wrong with that. also there is NO proof whatsoever that a) a book was ever banned b) that she attempted to ban a book
  
• She's a hardcore religious right superconservative.
  
  okay... your point??? i guess a hardcore atheistic left super-liberal would be better?
  
• She's a hardcore religious right superconservative. Yes, I wrote that twice.

either you are watching way too much Olbermann or you were handed a set of talking points from the democrats...

and the worst thing about beating up on Palin is that it helps high=light the issues with Obama who has a GRAND TOTAL of 142 days of SENATE experience.... he was only in office as a senator before he declared his candidacy - so technically when he launched his campain he had 20 days or so of SENATE experience --- woohooo!!! and he barely managed to do anything with the ONE sub-committe he heads...

 

[badasshairday]

**** that. I can't let Sarah ****in Paulin be 1 bullet or 1 myocardial infarction away from the presidency. McCain ****ed up picking her as VP. Admit it.

 

[coprolalia]

**** that. I can't let Sarah ****in Paulin be 1 bullet or 1 myocardial infarction away from the presidency. McCain ****ed up picking her as VP. Admit it.

Heart, not head.

-copro

 

[badasshairday]

Heart, not head.

-copro

Sorry, I pulled a PUI, Posting Under the Influence. But I still stand by what I say. Her views are so warped in my opinion that it would be scary if McCain dropped dead and she had to take the helm. McCain isn't a bad guy, but his choice as running mate sucks.

 

[Doctodd]

You're right....I have no personal experience with Medicare. But I do know of many, many primary care physicians who no longer accept Medicare because of reimbursement issues (decreased reimbursement, lengthy period of turnaround time, etc.). It might be great for you, but it's failing many others.

Well i cant explain why the docs you know dont get a good turnaround time. With electronic billing Medicare pays me and others in 14 days. Lots of other docs are seeing this. Im sure you know MC is trying to push us into EMR and going paperless. Unfortunately that is also one of the reasons there is fraud in MC billing.....we have some Cubans in Miami who were paid $23million for HIV chemo infusions and DME and then went back to Cuba. Because it takes around 2 years for MC to audit, they have little chance to recoup that money cuz they are long gone out of Miami. The HIV infusion office was caught. The professional patient who said he was getting all those treatments said he was paid about $200 for each time he "didnt" receive tx. A 30 ish year old african-american crack addict. His pic was in the paper. Guess he couldnt leave the country like the other guys.

 

[pgg]

show me any science that PROVES that humankind is responsible for global warming... I am not disputing that Global Warming is occurring - but please show me good science (i hope they taught critical reading at your med school).... Global Warming is a cyclical phenomenon... All that science has right now is that there is an increasing trend in CO2 in the air, and increasing temperature patterns.... I wonder if we should blame the Dinosaurs for their contribution to global warming that led to the melting of the glaciers that extended all the way to Utah??

Rational, intelligent people don't need irrefutable proof that climate change is caused by human activity in order to be concerned or suspicious enough to do something. There is a great deal of data that suggest that recent events such as the extent of arctic ice melt are both accelerating at a rate that may be greater than any historic cycles, and that atmospheric CO2 levels are probably contributing. Prudence demands that long-term efforts be made to minimize the environmental impact of industrial activity.

Of course we can't just stop burning coal and oil. (For one thing, China and India sure won't.) Only crackpots and people-should-return-to-the-trees whackos are arguing this. But we need to be addressing the issue. The problem with Palin is that she's pretending that the issue doesn't exist at all.

show me a direct quote where she states that seeing russia is her claim to foreign relations competence...

I'm not going to dig it up, but it was McCain who declared that her national security credentials centered around her command of the Alaska National Guard (which she's never ordered to do anything at all) and Alaska's proximity to Russia.

The problem isn't so much that she has so little foreign relations experience (neither does Obama, and neither did Bush/Clinton/Reagan as you said) as the absurdly disingenuous claim that she DOES have such experience. It'd be one thing if she said "I don't have any, but neither did most presidents and VPs before taking office" ... but she instead chose to declare her competence based on the thinnest of resumes.

show me the quote where she exaggerated her trip to Kuwait and getting close to the Iraq border - or are you just regurgitating liberal talking points? If we are going to talk about exaggeration, let's talk about the admitted plagiarism of Biden of Kinnock's speeches? Or how about when Gore claimed he invented the Internet?

Her campaign staff made the claims directly, and gradually backtracked. She's responsible for what the people who formally represent her say.

Sure, we can talk about Biden's exaggerations. I don't particularly like him either. Gore never claimed to have invented the internet. I know you know that's not true.

Nice use of the "b-b-b-b-but Clinton!" tactic there.

Whether or not she ever attempts to use her office to impose this agenda upon us is questionable; what's unquestionable is that people who want to teach this "controversy" are as foolish and scientifically illiterate as those who'd claim the atomic theory of matter is "just a theory" and would like to teach the "controversy" between the periodic table and the earth-air-fire-water theory.

again show me SOMETHING to support that she has implemented policies promoting teaching evolution in the alaska public school system...

Work on your reading comprehension; I never said that she attempted to enact such a change.

Her belief in this area demonstrates basic scientific illiteracy, nothing more, and I'd like smart educated people running the country for a change. More to the point, as president or VP, I think she'd be unlikely to oppose others' efforts to get these educational policy changes made, and that's a problem. The people she might appoint as president (such as judges) are likely to share her beliefs, and those people may well find themselves hearing cases that decide this issue.

any proof that she used Yahoo email accounts for state business?

Yes. Look it up.

Hacking into her email was illegal and contemptible, but it did reveal many emails from and to other officials, in and out of Alaska, concerning policy and politics.

At worst, her use of a "personal" Yahoo mail account was an attempt to avoid recordkeeping requirements. At best, it was a stupid thing to do. Neither scenario is complimentary to her judgment.

abstinence is the only 100% way of avoiding STDs and pregnancy... prove me wrong... Do you realize the number of STDs that are transmitted despite barrier methods? Do you realize the number of pregnancies that occur despite contraception?

You are correct, abstinence is the only 100% effective method of avoiding STDs and pregnancy ... and it doesn't require either education or adjuncts such as condoms or contraceptives. And look how well that technique has worked in Africa, or her own home for that matter. The argument that one layer of defense (abstinence) is superior to multiple layers (abstinence + barrier/contraceptive) is laughable. It's just one more example of her very conservative religious beliefs impacting public policy in a counterproductive way.

However big a douchebag that trooper is (and it sounds like he's a first class loser), and however much he deserved to be fired, it appears likely that she has abused her power and lied about her involvement in the whole thing

the police officer tasered his step-son... i am sure that you would want to keep him on the police force... she didn't fire the trooper... she fired the public safety commissioner - and as far as I remember the chief of the executive branch can fire anybody he/she wants in the executive branch..

Slow down, read a little more carefully. Where the hell do you get "i am sure that you would want to keep him on the police force" out of my "however much he deserves to be fired" preface?

It's as if you're not even reading what I wrote.

Sure, she can fire whoever she wants. But her motivation for doing so appears to be childish and petty ... more qualities I don't want in a president or VP.

agreed. - she sticks to her talking points... but show me a politician who doesn't.

Fair enough. But I got the impression that her avoidance of certain questions stemmed not so much from wanting to avoid the issue, as from failing to understand the issue at all (eg Bush Doctrine).

she was in favor of expanding infra-structure in Alaska - when you are the governor of Alaska, and you state is 30 years behind the rest of the contiguous 48 in infrastructure development, then it makes sense to take whatever your congressional reps can bring back from washington...

Sure. Why didn't she say that, then? Why the deceptive charade about being offered the funds and nobly turning them down?

What's wrong with "As governor of Alaska, I worked very hard to improve conditions for Alaskans in every way. As VP, I'll work just as hard on behalf of all Americans."

again - the chief of the executive can fire and hire at will.... there is nothing wrong with that. also there is NO proof whatsoever that a) a book was ever banned b) that she attempted to ban a book

You're right, there's no proof that she intended to ban any specific books. But you have to wonder why she'd ask a librarian a "rhetorical" question about removing books in the first place.

"What would you do if I told you to [insert something inappropriate]" type questions don't occur in a vacuum of intent.

okay... your point??? i guess a hardcore atheistic left super-liberal would be better?

My point is that I've had enough of a president who makes decisions based on gut feelings and prayer, with open disdain for science. I don't want a hardcore religious or anti-religious anything in office at all.

It's too bad McCain was so far behind that he felt he had to make a shock VP pick to shake up the race. You don't have to defend her in order to support McCain or oppose Obama. There are many good reasons to get behind McCain, and Obama is absolutely not without fault.

This thread's Palin derailment grew out of pointing out that Palin was a poor tactical decision by McCain. She sure energizes the McCain base, but she's done the same on the left. She dominated the news during and immediately after the RNC, and McCain got a solid bump in the polls. But as with every election, the convention bumps are gone within a couple weeks ... and now McCain's stuck with this polarizing figure.

He missed a chance to pick someone who could help him win swing states.

 

[Matty44]

.

 

[coprolalia]

Dudes/Dudettes:

Most of you have probably already made your decision...

As far as Palin goes, you're either going to like her, or you're going to hate her. She's either got moxy and chutzpah, or she's power-abusin' bible-thumpin' bitch on wheels. Just keep one thing in mind...

She's not running for president.

-copro

 

[pgg]

She's not running for president.

Well, here's to McCain's continued good health if he pulls it off. Because if president McCain dies, we're not going to have another election. We're going to have president Palin.

Keep breathin' ... keep breathin' ...

 

[climbingdocs]

You mean because he didn't let Obama get away with rambling on for a few minutes about something other than the question that was asked? O'Reilly only had 30 min with him and didn't want to let Obama "off the hook" when he tried (as he does with any tough questions that are above his paygrade) to avoid giving a straight answer.

no, I watched him inteview LOTS of people and he is always the same way, never lets the guest finish the thought. He even dogged Bono!!

 

[starsop93]

Dudes/Dudettes:

Most of you have probably already made your decision...

As far as Palin goes, you're either going to like her, or you're going to hate her. She's either got moxy and chutzpah, or she's power-abusin' bible-thumpin' bitch on wheels. Just keep one thing in mind...

She's not running for president.

-copro

Seeing how absolutely flaky and confused McCain has been in the last month, I think Sara Palin IS running for president. She seems to think so as well...

 

[tranquill]

It's interesting how the Israelis view Obama. He receives much support
both from Jewish liberals and arguably the right-wing AIPAC, but his
middle name bothers Israelis a lot. Also, there are doubts whether he is
really a Muslim apostate. Here is an article which analyzes Obama's
similarity to early Zionists:
http://samsonblinded.org/blog/obama-against-jewishness.htm What do you think of the parallels?

 

[badasshairday]

Dudes/Dudettes:

Most of you have probably already made your decision...

As far as Palin goes, you're either going to like her, or you're going to hate her. She's either got moxy and chutzpah, or she's power-abusin' bible-thumpin' bitch on wheels. Just keep one thing in mind...

She's not running for president.

-copro

Yes, I made my decision because McCain made his decision to choose her. I'll admit that I was backing Obama from the beginning, but then started to see that McCain actually may be a good thing for this country at this time. The government is in red ink, we need to reduce government spending, increase taxes to pay off debt rather than pay for more government spending programs. McCain would be more likely to do that if he really is an old school conservative instead of an idiot neocon like Bush and Chaney who cut tax revenue and spend more money than any democrat can imagine. But by picking Paulin, McCain miss stepped. If something were to happen to McCain, I don't want an idiot running the country. Anyone I look up to as president should be an intelligent person, and she is not.

 

[coprolalia]

If something were to happen to McCain, I don't want an idiot running the country. Anyone I look up to as president should be an intelligent person, and she is not.

You just haven't proven this.

Some feel that Obama is nothing more than a panderer, too, with no real substantive ideas and/or dangerous ones, and would be far worse than McCain/Palin.

-copro

 

[jwk]

Being able to see Russia across the water is her primary claim to foreign relations competence.

Perhaps those who use a Tina Fey line from SNL as "evidence" shouldn't be allowed to vote.

 

[pgg]

Perhaps those use a Tina Fey line from SNL as "evidence" shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I don't think I've watched SNL in about 15 or 16 years.

It's OK to admit Palin was a bad choice. No one will make you vote for Obama if you do. Even the hardcore pundits admit it when they think no one's watching.

You guys can pretend all you want that the Vice President doesn't matter (while somehow still arguing that Palin is a great choice), that technically a VP candidate isn't running for president (despite being one bullet away from that job), or that a lot of people who view McCain favorably and would vote for him see Palin as a dealbreaker.

 

[Chopsticks]

.....

 

[bigmen]

I think Obama will be better than other...

I don't know why, but I like them...

plus as a doctor...

 

[coprolalia]

I think Obama will be better than other...

I don't know why, but I like them...

plus as a doctor...

This might be the single weirdest post I've ever read on this forum.

Trusting that Engrish isn't your first language... right?

-copro

 

[lane]

This might be the single weirdest post I've ever read on this forum.

Trusting that Engrish isn't your first language... right?

-copro

i'm not brave enough to click on the enemabag.info link in his/her sig

 

[jwk]

I don't think I've watched SNL in about 15 or 16 years.

It's OK to admit Palin was a bad choice. No one will make you vote for Obama if you do. Even the hardcore pundits admit it when they think no one's watching.

You guys can pretend all you want that the Vice President doesn't matter (while somehow still arguing that Palin is a great choice), that technically a VP candidate isn't running for president (despite being one bullet away from that job), or that a lot of people who view McCain favorably and would vote for him see Palin as a dealbreaker.

Even worse - so you hear someone else quote the SNL bit, take is as fact, and then relay it to someone else.

Think for yourself - don't let others do it for you.

 

[pgg]

Even worse - so you hear someone else quote the SNL bit, take is as fact, and then relay it to someone else.

Think for yourself - don't let others do it for you.

Believe what you want. Let's agree to disagree. Have a nice day.

 

[jwk]

Believe what you want. Let's agree to disagree. Have a nice day.

Don't ya just hate it when those pesky facts get in the way of the make-believe world of those who blindly follow Barack the Chosen One?

 

[pgg]

Don't ya just hate it when those pesky facts get in the way of the make-believe world of those who blindly follow Barack the Chosen One?

Are you referring to me? I think I've made it pretty clear how I feel about Palin.

I've also stated, repeatedly, that I hold McCain in high regard and that I think he'd be a good president.

As for Obama ... he's a good, well-meaning, genuinely intelligent guy and that's sure appealing after the last 8 years. But I think we should be cutting social programs with dull axes, machetes, and chainsaws, not promising $eleventy-brazillion in new entitlements despite astronomical federal debt and annual deficits. So I can't get behind him.

I'm one of those social liberals, fiscal/foreign policy conservatives, small government Constitution-reading people who is thoroughly disgusted with both the wishy-washy impotent drunken-sailor-spendy Democratic party and the current bible-thumping Constitution-trampling drunken-sailor-spendy incarnation of the Republican party. Ron Paul was a candidate I could have supported, but he's gone, so what can you do?

I know you're a smart guy, so it's a little disturbing that your pro-Palin blinders are so completely effective that you're confabulating support for Obama out of (a) my distaste for Palin and (b) my belief that McCain erred in selecting her. Once again, let's just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Doctodd]

As a newbie when it comes to politics, i was drawn to Obama. I was drawn away from McCain due to me seeing him as more of the same Bush. Now that McCain picked Palin, im drawn AWAY from him. Of course i have some debates to watch, and more time to educate myself. But Palin being VP and a heartbeat away(how shocking/dramatic of a statement can you get?) from president is NOT enough to make me vote for giving away my hard earned $$$ to the people who will really get it. In the end, i think im voting for McCain cuz i realize my initial logic was flawed. McCain DOES NOT EQUAL Bush and Palin DOES NOT EQUAL President. But i still have 2 months to decide. Hey.......Obama backed down from 35% tax to 20% due to a compromise with Oreilly on the air. Let's see if that holds.

T

 

[filter07]

Anyone who votes for McCain/Palin is a first class douche. Obama is a much better candidate but he is also more of the same; he is not an agent of change. No major democratic or republican presidential candidate is a major agent of change. The powers want a status quo, someone they can control and keep reigns on. Only a vote for a third party is a vote for change. Don't be fooled by talking points or inane point by point "rebuttals" in chat rooms or internet forums. It's all sophistry, nothing more. Pure rhetoric. Vote third party or vote for the lesser of two evils (Obama). A vote for McCain is a vote for the continued downfall of the USA.

 

[cfdavid]

I realize I'm not contributing much of productive value here, but neither of these characters are going to be able to stem the financial fiasco we're headed for (just the begining).

McCain and his tax cut rhetoric, and Obama in his pledges to essentially increase gov't spending (then again, the current administration has brought this to whole new levels so it's not just the Dems anymore). ****All this at a time when our debt load is unimaginably high, and getting higher by the day, literally. We can't lower taxes (or maintain existing rates) anymore than we can add to social programs. We just can't afford it.

****Forget about a nationalized healthcare system. The current fiscal situation in the U.S. will make that a pipe dream. It can't happen without putting us under even further. It's literally cost prohibitive at this point in time. Just the facts.

For sound financial advice, I personally turn to dudes like Peter Schiff, David Tice, and even Jim Rogers (though he gets a bit dramatic at times).

You can youtube these dudes for lots of interesting commentary on the various financial networks. Otherwise, it's the blind leading the blind.

 

[kraphtymac]

Look at me, I'm Robin Hood Obama! I'm taking from the rich and giving to the poor!

This idiocy is the same **** that got us into the mortgage mess! The banks were more likely to give a loan to whites, because they were much more likely to repay it! Because the banks actually profiled races to see who was most likely able or willing to repay their loans, the DemocRATS got all pissed off and saw it as "unfair lending". So, I'm sorry. If I'm investing in a private bank, I ONLY want them to give loans to people who will pay it back. The Dems said "this isn't fair" (Barry Obama included) and pushed through measures to loan more money to more people than could pay it back. Welcome to 2008, with a financial market collapse requiring a bailout.

To medicine. I don't know why any physician in their right mind would vote for Obama. Pay higher taxes so he can give your money to people who don't give two s hits about ever working for themselves, illegal immigrants, and anybody else who wants to live off the system... and have to continue giving them basically free care. One of the physicians I worked with as a med student marveled at home Medicare pays less NOW than they did 25 years ago to anesthesiologists... EVEN BEFORE YOU CORRECT FOR INFLATION!

So that said, if you want to earn a living, try to invest, and leave a legacy for your family... and vote Obama, you might as well introduce yourself to the illegal immigrants lining up at Home Depot because your hard work is directly lining their pockets! Congrats!

Oh, and Biden? I'd love to rumble with that dude for saying taxes are patriotic. People in the 250,000 + range are ALREADY PAYING A S HIT TON more taxes than people in lower ranges! Why make it go up! Spend less, not make more to spend more!

 

[kraphtymac]

From someone much wiser than me...

"If McCain were elected president and would happen to pass away in the first year, we would have somebody with minimal experience as President. Sadly, if Obama were elected and didn't pass away in the first year, we would be in the same situation."

McCain/Palin 08

 

[Southpaw]

Anyone who votes for McCain/Palin is a first class douche. Obama is a much better candidate but he is also more of the same; he is not an agent of change. No major democratic or republican presidential candidate is a major agent of change. The powers want a status quo, someone they can control and keep reigns on. Only a vote for a third party is a vote for change. Don't be fooled by talking points or inane point by point "rebuttals" in chat rooms or internet forums. It's all sophistry, nothing more. Pure rhetoric. Vote third party or vote for the lesser of two evils (Obama). A vote for McCain is a vote for the continued downfall of the USA.

If being a first class douche means depositing 100% of what I've earned into my bank account then that's Medical Student Douche to you, sir. If making a smart vote means signing over your paycheck to someone Obama deems needs it more than you, then go ahead Dr. Smartie Pants!

 

[RabbMD]

I have yet to see anyone defend Obama's totally socialized ideas about wealth redistribution. Could one of you dems please educate me why I should hand over the first few years of making any money to people that decided "college wasn't for them" by raises my taxes 10% so they can get a 1% decrease? Please Tell me why it is the government's roll to redistribute wealth. Anyone can advance in this country if they work hard, are disciplined, and have even average intelligence. Believe me I know plummers a lot smarter than people I went to medical school with. (they also make more per hour than any pediatrician, but thats another story).

 

[jwk]

Vote third party or vote for the lesser of two evils (Obama). A vote for McCain is a vote for the continued downfall of the USA.

And a vote for Cynthia McKinney would be.........???

 

[badasshairday]

Both suck. Vote independent. Palin is dumb. McCain isn't bad, but the dealbreaker is Palin. Obama isn't bad, but screw raising taxes to pay for more government social programs. Instead an increased tax revenue should be used to pay off the freakin debt that we have because of George W Bush's failed policies and massive spending.

 

[pgg]

****Forget about a nationalized healthcare system. The current fiscal situation in the U.S. will make that a pipe dream. It can't happen without putting us under even further. It's literally cost prohibitive at this point in time. Just the facts.

Yeah, if there's one silver lining to this $700 billion subprime fiasco it's that it makes a horrendously expensive ill-conceived socialized national health system a lot less likely.

The flip side is that it's just one more economic burden on the system that will surely lead to redoubled efforts to cut reimbursement further.

 

[badasshairday]

I thought they bailed them out with 300billion last week? Or was that the tentative plan, and now they upped it to 700billion?

 

[badasshairday]

And why the hell are we bailing them out? Screw them for messing up. They should pay for their mistakes.

 

[usnavdoc]

And why the hell are we bailing them out? Screw them for messing up. They should pay for their mistakes.

I agree with you in spirit but the snowballing effect across the economic community would be devastating for a decade. The same thing happened in Japan several years back and they are just now getting through it. So unfortunately I think we have to do this ASAP. What I do disagree with is all the CEO/execs getting away with multimillions in bonuses and salaries while all this has gone on. Some kind of criminal proceedings needs to take place.