MCCEE for applying for residency

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rezam71

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Hi

I am an IMG and recently have decided to take MCCEE exam and qualifying exams for residency. I am a permanent resident in Canada.
My question is whether I need qualifying exam for participating in matching for residency or MCCEE is enough (in CaRMS website it says I can apply with MCCEE). I am going to take my MCCEE in July 2009.

My second question is whether score of MCCEE is important for residency or it is just a pass and fail exam.

Regards
Reza
[email protected]

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CaRMS states that all who wish to practice in canada must pass the MCCEE but the score is not very important as long as one passes the exam. Although, it may be a good idea to do well to prove your knowledge.

Most provinces weigh the MCQEE more heavily when it comes to score (for IMGs)
 
It is important to get a high score on the mccee especially if you're an IMG. I don't know how much you've studied, but if you still need review material and questions, I recommend going to www.mcceereview.com. They also have a lot of free questions to download which are harder than the actual exam so you're better prepared. Good luck :)
 
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It is a few month after the last post here now. I received my MCCEE score today. My score is 326. The average score is 271 and the pass mark for the exam is 250. standard deviation equals 50.
 
It is a few month after the last post here now. I received my MCCEE score today. My score is 326. The average score is 271 and the pass mark for the exam is 250. standard deviation equals 50.

not bad.Do better in QE1 exam, that counts more.

Good luck
 
hi

i want to know scoring of MCCEE according to what ?

it always confusing me
 
It is important to get a high score on the mccee especially if you're an IMG. I don't know how much you've studied, but if you still need review material and questions, I recommend going to www.mcceereview.com. They also have a lot of free questions to download which are harder than the actual exam so you're better prepared. Good luck :)

hi

did you bought from it
if bought from it which book you recommand for reading ????
 
It's kinda strange how all the results I'm hearing are above 300, even though they say the average is 271, and the passing score is 250!

Where's the 271 average figure coming from if everyone scored over 300?

I scored 337, is this any good?
 
It's kinda strange how all the results I'm hearing are above 300, even though they say the average is 271, and the passing score is 250!

Where's the 271 average figure coming from if everyone scored over 300?

I scored 337, is this any good?

So, if you look in the MCC website and look at the section on scoring of the MCCEE, you will see that your score puts you between the 86-94th centile, not too bad at all:D. On the old exam they used to say that if you wanted to match to a specialty you had to have a score on the old system of around 499, whcih in the new system is between 325-350 (this info is in the FAQ section for the EE, under"Why are the new marks lower than the old marks" or somesuch). So yes, you did fine.
Most people apply on their EE, so doing relatively well on it can't hurt you. Many people go into it thinking that as long as you pass it you'll do fine on the match, but my program director told me that if you do really well it helps (and if you do really badly it does not!). FYI, I scored 340, and I matched on the 1st round.
Good luck,
M
 
So, if you look in the MCC website and look at the section on scoring of the MCCEE, you will see that your score puts you between the 86-94th centile, not too bad at all:D. On the old exam they used to say that if you wanted to match to a specialty you had to have a score on the old system of around 499, whcih in the new system is between 325-350 (this info is in the FAQ section for the EE, under"Why are the new marks lower than the old marks" or somesuch). So yes, you did fine.
Most people apply on their EE, so doing relatively well on it can't hurt you. Many people go into it thinking that as long as you pass it you'll do fine on the match, but my program director told me that if you do really well it helps (and if you do really badly it does not!). FYI, I scored 340, and I matched on the 1st round.
Good luck,
M

Well that's reassuring...

Problem is I'm getting a preliminary year in the US before applying in Canada... and for some reason NOBODY KNOWS, CaRMS eliminates anyone with US/Canadian postgrad training from the first round.... so I'll have to take my chances with the second round... where IMGs go head to head with CMGs, for leftover positions... :(

I don't get it... this preliminary US year is supposed to make me more qualified and a better candidate than another IMG who came fresh from his country's medical school with nothing more than a written exam score.
 
Well that's reassuring...

Problem is I'm getting a preliminary year in the US before applying in Canada... and for some reason NOBODY KNOWS, CaRMS eliminates anyone with US/Canadian postgrad training from the first round.... so I'll have to take my chances with the second round... where IMGs go head to head with CMGs, for leftover positions... :(

I don't get it... this preliminary US year is supposed to make me more qualified and a better candidate than another IMG who came fresh from his country's medical school with nothing more than a written exam score.

So why do the preliminary year? Are you graduating this year, in which case sadly it's a little late to reconsider. It sounds like a bad deal to me.
FYI, in the CaRMS match preference is given to recent graduates so your best chance to match is in the 2-3 years after you finish med school. Even limited to the second round you should match just fine, unless you are trying to get into something ultracompetitive, like derm. Depending on where you want to live, you could also look into having a province sponsor a spot for you. Some provinces will sponsor someone to a specific residency outside the match if they need the service (I know two people doing pathology this way and another doing urology. A 4th opted to do surgery inthe US but had a firm offer of a sponsored spot in gen surg). These are all in the Maritimes BTW. Good luck,
M
 
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Knight MD

I don't get it... this preliminary US year is supposed to make me more qualified and a better candidate than another IMG who came fresh from his country's medical school with nothing more than a written exam score



That's the way it is....why not just apply for a categorical then?

Maybe answer this question then: Why is Family Medicine residency in Canada 2 year but in US is 3 years?
Why is Internal Medicine in US 3 years but in Canada 4 years?

That's the way it is...nobody knows the answer to that either,,,, and the sooner you accept it the better.
 
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So why do the preliminary year? Are you graduating this year, in which case sadly it's a little late to reconsider. It sounds like a bad deal to me.
FYI, in the CaRMS match preference is given to recent graduates so your best chance to match is in the 2-3 years after you finish med school. Even limited to the second round you should match just fine, unless you are trying to get into something ultracompetitive, like derm. Depending on where you want to live, you could also look into having a province sponsor a spot for you. Some provinces will sponsor someone to a specific residency outside the match if they need the service (I know two people doing pathology this way and another doing urology. A 4th opted to do surgery inthe US but had a firm offer of a sponsored spot in gen surg). These are all in the Maritimes BTW. Good luck,
Margaret

Well thanks Margaret. I have been considering a withdrawal from the US ERAS match altogether, doing another year of research and applying next year for the first round of CaRMS. However, I'm a Canadian IMG and the most common and sound advice is: Don't put all your eggs in the Canadian basket. Withdrawing from the American match this year would totally bring my chances of matching in the US to an end, with a Canadian match next year not guaranteed (15% of IMGs match in Canada, compared to 49% in the US). Also, I didn't do all the USMLEs and get LORs, phone calls and everything for nothing. I need this year, and I do believe I'll have a good shot at the second round in CaRMS... if surgical positions are available.

Which brings me to the question, how did your friend get a specifically sponsored Urology position outside of the match bec it was "in need"? Isn't Urology ultra-competitive, with all its positions snatched in the first round? Why did they do it, and how did he/she have this specific position held for him?

MontereyMD said:
That's the way it is....why not just apply for a categorical then?
Well, as an unwritten rule in the US match, no IMG gets into categorical surgery straight away without passing through a preliminary year, for understandable reasons (unless the PD is your father). Talk about a visa-requiring Canadian IMG with no ties in the US. Moreover, I'm interested in doing my residency in Canada... not the US. Sadly, I missed this CaRMS match bec the program I was interested in Toronto required the MCCQE1, and the CE1, both which I haven't sat for yet... So I thought this preliminary US year would harmlessly "keep me in shape" while I do the CaRMS match season.
 
Well thanks Margaret. I have been considering a withdrawal from the US ERAS match altogether, doing another year of research and applying next year for the first round of CaRMS. However, I'm a Canadian IMG and the most common and sound advice is: Don't put all your eggs in the Canadian basket. Withdrawing from the American match this year would totally bring my chances of matching in the US to an end, with a Canadian match next year not guaranteed (15% of IMGs match in Canada, compared to 49% in the US). Also, I didn't do all the USMLEs and get LORs, phone calls and everything for nothing. I need this year, and I do believe I'll have a good shot at the second round in CaRMS... if surgical positions are available.

Which brings me to the question, how did your friend get a specifically sponsored Urology position outside of the match bec it was "in need"? Isn't Urology ultra-competitive, with all its positions snatched in the first round? Why did they do it, and how did he/she have this specific position held for him?


Well, as an unwritten rule in the US match, no IMG gets into categorical surgery straight away without passing through a preliminary year, for understandable reasons (unless the PD is your father). Talk about a visa-requiring Canadian IMG with no ties in the US. Moreover, I'm interested in doing my residency in Canada... not the US. Sadly, I missed this CaRMS match bec the program I was interested in Toronto required the MCCQE1, and the CE1, both which I haven't sat for yet... So I thought this preliminary US year would harmlessly "keep me in shape" while I do the CaRMS match season.

The person I know who matched in urology approached his home province and they agreed to sponsor a spot. I also know people who have been sponsored by an individual health board. These positions are all outside the match and paid for by the individual provinces or health boards involved. It really is worth approaching provincial departments of health and health boards in areas you would be willing to work in and asking about sponsorship. Cheers,
M
 
So why do the preliminary year? Are you graduating this year, in which case sadly it's a little late to reconsider. It sounds like a bad deal to me.
FYI, in the CaRMS match preference is given to recent graduates so your best chance to match is in the 2-3 years after you finish med school. Even limited to the second round you should match just fine, unless you are trying to get into something ultracompetitive, like derm. Depending on where you want to live, you could also look into having a province sponsor a spot for you. Some provinces will sponsor someone to a specific residency outside the match if they need the service (I know two people doing pathology this way and another doing urology. A 4th opted to do surgery inthe US but had a firm offer of a sponsored spot in gen surg). These are all in the Maritimes BTW. Good luck,
Margaret

What province is this happening in? The provinces already fund the residency spots, most of which run at capacity anyways. Theres so many IMG applicants to CaRMS as it is, there's no reason make "extra" spots. Ive seen something like this happen for fellowship positions, which are nearly as competitive.
 
What province is this happening in? The provinces already fund the residency spots, most of which run at capacity anyways. Theres so many IMG applicants to CaRMS as it is, there's no reason make "extra" spots. Ive seen something like this happen for fellowship positions, which are nearly as competitive.

I know of deals in NS, NB, PEI and Newfoundland. I was offered money but no guaranteed residency spot to go to Northern Alberta a few years ago while I was still a student. If you are willing to live for a few years somewhere that is not Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver (to pick a few at random - no, really) there are deals out there. It pays to be flexible. Cheers,
M
 
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So why do the preliminary year? Are you graduating this year, in which case sadly it's a little late to reconsider. It sounds like a bad deal to me.
FYI, in the CaRMS match preference is given to recent graduates so your best chance to match is in the 2-3 years after you finish med school. Even limited to the second round you should match just fine, unless you are trying to get into something ultracompetitive, like derm. Depending on where you want to live, you could also look into having a province sponsor a spot for you. Some provinces will sponsor someone to a specific residency outside the match if they need the service (I know two people doing pathology this way and another doing urology. A 4th opted to do surgery inthe US but had a firm offer of a sponsored spot in gen surg). These are all in the Maritimes BTW. Good luck,
Margaret

Hi, I am pretty much new here and was looking for some information about residency matches in Canada. I was hoping if you could give some more information about provinces sponsoring a spot... and how I could get some more information about this. Thanks!
 
You only need 2 things for the EE. Toronto Notes and USMLEWorld. Of course, you should have learned things properly during your clerkship. The higher the score the better obviously.
 
So, if you look in the MCC website and look at the section on scoring of the MCCEE, you will see that your score puts you between the 86-94th centile, not too bad at all:D. On the old exam they used to say that if you wanted to match to a specialty you had to have a score on the old system of around 499, which in the new system is between 325-350 (this info is in the FAQ section for the EE, under"Why are the new marks lower than the old marks" or some such). So yes, you did fine.
Most people apply on their EE, so doing relatively well on it can't hurt you. Many people go into it thinking that as long as you pass it you'll do fine on the match, but my program director told me that if you do really well it helps (and if you do really badly it does not!). FYI, I scored 340, and I matched on the 1st round.
Good luck,
M

HI,
I am kinda of confused, i wrote my EE and scored 355 applied to family medicine, but i haven't received any replies from the programs:confused:.
Do the programs base IMGs only on their MCCEE or are there other things they look for, like clinical electives?

thanks :)
 
Anyone have an idea? I know the EE score is looked at for granting interviews but after that how important are they?
 
HI,
I am kinda of confused, i wrote my EE and scored 355 applied to family medicine, but i haven't received any replies from the programs:confused:.
Do the programs base IMGs only on their MCCEE or are there other things they look for, like clinical electives?

thanks :)

I know some programs look for electives in Family Medicine, general internal medicine and paeds, to name a few related specialties. Getting letters of reference from FM, internal and paeds also doesn't hurt. Most programs have a paper scoring system for the applications to determine who to interview, which is based on strength of LOR's, academic performance, personal statement and if you have done an elective in the specialty. There are probably other things they look at that I don't know about - these are just some of the things I know about from my personal experience doing file reviews.
Applying as an IMG is always a crap shoot. Hopefully you will hear something soon. Some programs send letters late too, always good for the nerves. Cheers and good luck,
M
 
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Interviews for Ontario FM went out on Dec. 11. I think you need a minimum 318 on the EE for an invite.

I'm sure the EE score plays a role in the overall acceptance. Your application is scored separately from your interview and it's usually weighted more. Just because you were interviewed does not mean you are on the same footing as all the applicants.
 
Anyone have an idea? I know the EE score is looked at for granting interviews but after that how important are they?

Let me share with you a FACT:

A PGY-2 FM resident at an Ontario program told me that due to the overwhelming number of applicants they get for their positions, the PD asks her to go through all IMGs, and filter out those who didn't pass the MCCQE1.

So yeah, they won't even look at your application if you don't have the MCCQE1.
For FM and IM, I suppose the CE1 is also a must.
 
thats very interesting i was just wondering for those who are in their final year of med school who are only applying to carms with only their mccee score...
 
Thanks for that heads up,

CE1? So you're saying to apply to Ontario you need EE and MCCEQE1? How do people fit all that in their final year M.D. + before Dec.1? I mean it sounds like you basically have to burn a year to do the exams before you can CaRMs it?


Let me share with you a FACT:

A PGY-2 FM resident at an Ontario program told me that due to the overwhelming number of applicants they get for their positions, the PD asks her to go through all IMGs, and filter out those who didn't pass the MCCQE1.

So yeah, they won't even look at your application if you don't have the MCCQE1.
For FM and IM, I suppose the CE1 is also a must.
 
i know people who received an interview for ontario fm with only mccee and nothing else, so that isn't true.
 
Thanks for that heads up,

CE1? So you're saying to apply to Ontario you need EE and MCCEQE1? How do people fit all that in their final year M.D. + before Dec.1? I mean it sounds like you basically have to burn a year to do the exams before you can CaRMs it?

To apply to CaRMS you need EE, not Part I or II.

However, what Knight is saying is that the individual residency programs may have unofficial filters that they use that you may or may not know anything about, and may or may not be able to do anything about.

For example, my own residency program (this is several years ago and NOT in Ontario) used to do exactly what he describes - one of the secretaries went through the stack of hundreds of IMG applications and fished out all those who hadn't passed the Part I, didn't have a high enough TOEFL score, wasn't a recent grad, etc. etc. etc. Don't sweat it - you can't do anything about what they decide to do without telling you - just APPLY.
 
Very few programs if any at all require the QE. I will be very surprised.
 
To apply to CaRMS you need EE, not Part I or II.

However, what Knight is saying is that the individual residency programs may have unofficial filters that they use that you may or may not know anything about, and may or may not be able to do anything about.

For example, my own residency program (this is several years ago and NOT in Ontario) used to do exactly what he describes - one of the secretaries went through the stack of hundreds of IMG applications and fished out all those who hadn't passed the Part I, didn't have a high enough TOEFL score, wasn't a recent grad, etc. etc. etc. Don't sweat it - you can't do anything about what they decide to do without telling you - just APPLY.

I got a little insight into the residency program in canada.
I am an IMG with Ortho residency from In.dia and cleared MCCEE with a score of 351 (Is it good enough??). However i applied to Ortho and surgical residency through CARMS with only EE scores and did not receive even the interview call. Although i thought my application had a good weightage with all those years and experience of residency, publications, presentations, volunteer services etc. I felt very depressed and thought " what the hell do they want in an application". but maybe they did not even look at it and my application got filtered out. I am now going for MCCQE1 in april 2011 and expect to get a good score. I will be reapplying after that.
Do anyone has any tips on residency application??(Apart from MCCEE and QE1 scores)
 
Sorry to hear that. I know people who have matched Ortho with just the EE and a classmate had ortho interviews with just the EE. All from Irish schools. I don't think the lack of the QE I is holding you back unless you are NOT a recent graduate. Some programs with stipulate that you must have the QE if you are more than 2 years post-grad. Check with the programs directly. You definitely need to have letters of recommendation from Canadian/American orthopedic surgeons (this may be the most important piece of your application). I am also sorry to say that a 351 is good but not great. For a specialty as competitive as ortho, this may hurt you.
 
I am a US osteopathic student. Thinking about possibly doing the CARMS match next year. I am interested in radiology. Two questions:
1) Is there any point in trying for radiology as a DO student? I'm an Ontario native. Not sure how much Canadian residency programs know about DO's, let alone the radiology programs.
2) Should I take the MCCEE if I am to consider J1 visa sponsorship for an ACGME residency? Or can I just take USMLE 1, 2CK, 2CS and 3 in addition to the 3 COMLEX exams?

Would appreciate any help or insight.
 
Hi,

I know nothing about D.O. or Radiology; but I do know you must take the MCCEE to get the Canadian 'Statement of Need' required for the J-1 VISA application.

Details here:
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/index-eng.php


I am a US osteopathic student. Thinking about possibly doing the CARMS match next year. I am interested in radiology. Two questions:
1) Is there any point in trying for radiology as a DO student? I'm an Ontario native. Not sure how much Canadian residency programs know about DO's, let alone the radiology programs.
2) Should I take the MCCEE if I am to consider J1 visa sponsorship for an ACGME residency? Or can I just take USMLE 1, 2CK, 2CS and 3 in addition to the 3 COMLEX exams?

Would appreciate any help or insight.
 
Hi,
I just wanted to know how bad is a score of 267 on the mccee, does it really mean that there is almost no way of ever being able to get a residency in canada with that kinda score...?????.............

I just recieved the news today and I was very dissapointed, but I really need some answers...Thank you
 
Hi

I am an IMG and recently have decided to take MCCEE exam and qualifying exams for residency. I am a permanent resident in Canada.
My question is whether I need qualifying exam for participating in matching for residency or MCCEE is enough (in CaRMS website it says I can apply with MCCEE). I am going to take my MCCEE in July 2009.

My second question is whether score of MCCEE is important for residency or it is just a pass and fail exam.

Regards
Reza
[email protected]
I have done the MCCEE in March 2013 and barely passed it with 258, maybe I didn't take it seriously. I am sitting for MCCQE1 soon in BC than NAC OSCE early next year. How will the low MCCEE results affect my residency chances in BC? Any ideas?
And are there any residents on this forum who have passed through the MCC system? Please respond.
Thank you.
 
I have done the MCCEE in March 2013 and barely passed it with 258, maybe I didn't take it seriously. I am sitting for MCCQE1 soon in BC than NAC OSCE early next year. How will the low MCCEE results affect my residency chances in BC? Any ideas?
And are there any residents on this forum who have passed through the MCC system? Please respond.
Thank you.

It will decrease your chances, unless you do well on the MCCQE1. If you do well on that, then your MCCEE score won't be regarded. If you mess up on the QE1 well you can say goodbye to Canada.
 
I have done the MCCEE in March 2013 and barely passed it with 258, maybe I didn't take it seriously. I am sitting for MCCQE1 soon in BC than NAC OSCE early next year. How will the low MCCEE results affect my residency chances in BC? Any ideas?
And are there any residents on this forum who have passed through the MCC system? Please respond.
Thank you.[/quote]
What qbank did you use for mccee?
 
I have just received my MCCEE score today and I was shocked: I left the exam feeling so confident because I had been studying for such a long time + was scoring well (70+) on the MCCEE Q Bank... and then I saw a score of 260 :(. I felt like I definitely scored 340+. I have my CK exam next week and I will be applying for the NAC over the following weeks. Do I still have a chance at a residency in Canada at all? I have 2 elective rotations completed in ON already and the rest will be done in Chicago.

I have read that MCCQ1 also plays an important part in the application process. I will not be able to take that until after I finish all my rotations, which will happen sometime in November 2015. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
 
I have just received my MCCEE score today and I was shocked: I left the exam feeling so confident because I had been studying for such a long time + was scoring well (70+) on the MCCEE Q Bank... and then I saw a score of 260 :(. I felt like I definitely scored 340+. I have my CK exam next week and I will be applying for the NAC over the following weeks. Do I still have a chance at a residency in Canada at all? I have 2 elective rotations completed in ON already and the rest will be done in Chicago.

I have read that MCCQ1 also plays an important part in the application process. I will not be able to take that until after I finish all my rotations, which will happen sometime in November 2015. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

I have heard that some Ontario programs or all might use a cut-off for MCCEE and above that they don't care. I'm not sure though, i've heard this for Ontario FM possibly.

http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/75056-mccee-scores/

If you read this post Shakira88, it doesn't look too good for your chances unfortunately.
 
Yeah, you're probably out of luck. Usually they want almost 2 SD above the mean.
 
Thanks for your input. I am still deciding on whether or not I should still give Canada a try. Do you know whether or not Canadian residency program directors looks at USMLE scores at all? I did much, much better on Step 1 and have already passed USMLE Step 2 CS. I guess I will find out about my USMLE Step 2 CK score sometime in June.
 
Thanks for your input. I am still deciding on whether or not I should still give Canada a try. Do you know whether or not Canadian residency program directors looks at USMLE scores at all? I did much, much better on Step 1 and have already passed USMLE Step 2 CS. I guess I will find out about my USMLE Step 2 CK score sometime in June.

Doubtful, they would have zero reason to look at USMLE scores.
 
Yup, since the exams are directed towards US medical practice. I am just trying to find some shred of hope somewhere :). I will be doing a peds elective at McMaster University in 2 weeks and I shall find out more about their requirements and cut-offs. Thanks again.
 
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