MD acceptance to PhD

[MD/PhD45]

Hello all, I hope you are well. I was hoping for anyone's opinion/perspective on this issue. I am scheduled to matriculate into an MD-PhD program this fall (late July). This program, however, will not supply me funding for the MD potion of the MD-PhD program (there are smaller scholarships I could apply to, but the full cost would not be covered). There is a lab I would consider joining if I go to school here, but I have heavily considered an alternative option of obtaining a PhD in my current post-bacc lab. Upon discussing this with my advisor, we both believe a realistic timeline would be to graduate in 2.5-3 years (I have already been here 3 years of undergraduate and 1 year of a post-bacc and have a first author publication and a mid-author publication). What I am thus wondering is if you think it would be worthwhile to pursue a PhD in my current lab then apply to medical school after this?

Financially I do not see any difference as I would be paying out of pocket regardless of if I get the MD now or later (may actually be cheaper later if I get into a lower tuition school). However, I understand my MCAT will have expired by then and I will have to keep up with my volunteering/shadowing to remain competitive (undergraduate GPA is not a worry; >3.95). I also understand it is no guarantee I get into an MD program if I re-apply as I would obviously have to go through the application process again.

I understand this is ultimately my decision and I will have to face the future consequences myself, but I was wondering about your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks!

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[Dr Meow]

As someone who has worked with so many phD's, for the love of God and AT Stills, Do not get only a phD in a biology related field. The value of the MD far outweighs the phD.
A degree is an investment. Money in money out (and job satisfaction of course).

You're making a terrible decision by going phD first. You need to finish your medical degree if you plan on doing it, ASAP. Pay off the loans asap.
The longer you wait, the older you are, the less investing opportunities you have. You're ruining your chances at compound investing.

Also, in the medical field, a MD can do most if not all of what a MD/phD can do. And CERTIANLY a MD >>>>> phD if you want to be a translational or medical research PI.

I understand some comments below will probably be defending the bio phD and say Bull**** like "do phD if you like research" and I can explain forever about this, But I've got Stranger Things episodes to finish and popeyes to eat.

In short.
Pay the money.
Get the MD.

 

[baz2020]

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush… take the acceptance and don’t look back

 

[pierty]

...As you can see, this site is not a good place to get a holistic review of your situation from different perspectives. Most users are extremely risk-averse (verging on pathologically so, and you hear it in a lot of the advice for those interested in re-applying), and the emphasis on using the career solely as a money-maker goes hand-in-hand with the career jadedness experienced by a lot of people echoing sentiments of career disillusionment (which not everyone feels, especially outside of this site). Anyways, your first reaction was from a first year DO student, not someone interested - or actively pursuing - a career as a physician scientist.

You can make the choice to pursue your PhD first if you feel confident and passionate about the project you are working on; I have known a few people who have chosen that option, and been very successful (one gave a big NIH talk a few years back). That being said, one thing you miss out on is the blending of your MD and PhD training phases that you would naturally get in most traditional 2-4-2 dedicated MD-PhD programs (it's a bit of a pain going through it because of the disjointedness you feel when transitioning between them, but the scope of pre-clinical knowledge gained in your first 2 MD years potentially helps stage and organize a lot of your project in the PhD phase. You come in with an entirely different background of the human body that you only get in pieces in undergrad, and especially throughout your PhD. Whether this is worth derailing your current project and restarting a new one with a potentially different mentor is up to you - both paths have positives and drawbacks).

Passing up the acceptance does not guarantee one further down the line, and this is important. But it does open the potential option - not guarantee - that you may gain entrance to a fully-funded program, especially a MSTP, that is an important consideration (*and additional productive research time will certainly be a bonus in a re-application. That being said, many programs will ask if you were previously accepted to a program and why you decided to not enroll, so it is important to draft a strong argument to support your decision. You may also face significant barriers to some programs that only accept pre-doctoral students, but there are MSTPs that will overlook this and consider your application. It is a mixed bag).

In addition, pursuing the dual-degree path is rife with obstacles, so being part of a program (and specifically, behind an administration) that supports and reduces obstacles for you throughout your journey is incredibly important. In general, the MSTP designation assures this and the previous point of funding, so it is something to consider. I recommend getting in touch with your school pre-health office with a trusted advisor to discuss these points, and come up with a realistic assessment of your chances of being accepted again in the future, should you choose this path. Of course, a third path would be to re-apply in a separate cycle without pursuing your PhD, in which case you will face similar benefits and risks to your PhD option.

Happy to discuss further, as needed (pm me if so). Think carefully through the decision, consult with multiple trusted advisors and mentors, and trust that whatever decision you make is the right one. Good luck!

 

[rtn1]

Not sure what the first two commenters are going on about. Because the finances are the same either way, I would finish up your PhD in your current lab and re-apply to MD programs afterwards. You'll be a more competitive applicant at that point too and you might have better luck applying to MD only programs.

 

[Dr Meow]

Not sure what the first two commenters are going on about. Because the finances are the same either way, I would finish up your PhD in your current lab and re-apply to MD programs afterwards. You'll be a more competitive applicant at that point too and you might have better luck applying to MD only programs.

No finances are not the same. Totally not the same.
Basic economics. Finish education asap. Pay off loans asap. Invest asap. Compound invest.

You finish your phD which even if 100% paid for by the school and lab, you're about 30-32 years old. Then you do the 4 year med school. you're now 34 - 36. Then you do your residency (say 4 years), now you're 38-40, with 500K debt. Lets say you use your entire salary to pay it off. You spend 2 years paying it off. Now you're 40 - 42 with 0 debt.
When you compound invest from 36-38 vs 40-42, that can be a pretty big difference in the longterm.

200K *1.08 = 216K
+200 = 416*1.08 = 450K
+200 = 650K = 702K
+200 = 902K = 974K

So in 4 years it would have taken you to do the phD, you've got an extra 174K which you wouldn't have if you got the phD. (and many people take longer than 4 years). I'm also not factoring the additional costs like food, rent, gas, etc.
Basically, that means this 174K is always working for you like passive income so that by the time you retire in say 20 more years, that 174K becomes 811K.

By doing the phD, you're not only giving yourself more stress, very little benefits when it comes to research, but you're also LOSING 800K.
Dumb dumb choice.

If you want to do a phD, get it in Physics or engineering. A bio phD doesn't add much to a MD. Better yet, get the MD and forget the phD.

 

[dl2dp2]

I'm a senior poster and an actual faculty and know what I am talking about. In this kind of scenario, unless you are independently wealthy you shouldn't do a PhD at all. I agree with the second poster. Get your MD and do a fellowship in research and never look back.

 

[Doctor-S]

I'm a senior poster and an actual faculty and know what I am talking about. In this kind of scenario ... Get your MD and do a fellowship in research and never look back.

Based on the substance of your orginal post, agree with @dl2dp2.