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MD after DVM, is it possible or not?

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hafizqadeer1137

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I am doing DVM, after it i want to shift towards human practice by doing MD, plz guide me about it, how long is MD after completing DVM, which is best country for MD, universities in UK offer MD after DVM degree, what is total tutition fee and duration of MD,

plz guide me
 

No Imagination

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I see you've posted this same thing like 3-4 times. No one is going to be able to guild you completely. You also don't give enough information.

Why MD after DVM?
What country you want to practice in?
What year are you (when will you finish DVM)?
How long depends on what country, but for MD in US, figure 4 years school, then 2-5 years residency

One thing I can say, unless you are brilliant and have uber credentials, you probably not going to med school for free outside of your own country.

P.S. Instead of posting the same thing over and over again, reform you question instead of asking someone to 'guide you completely'.

Just my 2 cents
 

theunraveler

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I actually plan to do human medicine after my vet degree. Quite alot of veterinarians end up in human medicine. Their reasons differ greatly. Some got bored of treating animals, others want to go into research
 

bunnity

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If you were bored treating animals, why would treating people be any less boring? At least with animals there's more than one species.
 
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GellaBella

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I see you've posted this same thing like 3-4 times. No one is going to be able to guild you completely. You also don't give enough information.

Why MD after DVM?
What country you want to practice in?
What year are you (when will you finish DVM)?
How long depends on what country, but for MD in US, figure 4 years school, then 2-5 years residency

One thing I can say, unless you are brilliant and have uber credentials, you probably not going to med school for free outside of your own country.

P.S. Instead of posting the same thing over and over again, reform you question instead of asking someone to 'guide you completely'.

Just my 2 cents

:thumbup:

Not only that but schooling in the UK is not free anyways. It is very cheap. For students who are citizens. For students who are not citizens, and since you say you are in Pakistan I would imagine you are not a UK citizen, schooling is just as expensive as in the United States.

One school I just looked up requires 23,631 GBP (pounds) per year of medical school for international student. Thats currently $38,798/year or 3,175,972.94 PKR. Lotta money.

not to mention living expenses/visas etc.
You're just not going to get a medical degree for free. It doesn't work that way. At least not as a foreign student, I'm sorry to say.
 

GellaBella

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I actually plan to do human medicine after my vet degree. Quite alot of veterinarians end up in human medicine. Their reasons differ greatly. Some got bored of treating animals, others want to go into research


do you mean you actually intend to get a full MD degree or just that you are willing to participate in biomedical research or teaching? I can understand teaching in a medical school as a veterinarian, or aiding in research, but going into a DVM program knowing I would also be wanting to do an MD degree after that?! BLAH! wow. more power to you though!
 

sumstorm

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My understanding is that most american med schools don't accept pre-reqs completed out of country.
 

theunraveler

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do you mean you actually intend to get a full MD degree or just that you are willing to participate in biomedical research or teaching? I can understand teaching in a medical school as a veterinarian, or aiding in research, but going into a DVM program knowing I would also be wanting to do an MD degree after that?! BLAH! wow. more power to you though!

Actually it was just a childish thought, I seriously cant see myself going through 4 years of hell after 5 years of veterinary medicine.... :D

Although I do know quite a few veterinarians who do medicine eventually. One of the vet at the small animal teaching hospital at my uni is in the final year of MBBS
 

hafizqadeer1137

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I was very nervous when i was writing the thread, i am student of DVM final year (in pakistan, DVM is 5 year degree programme), after completing DVM i want to get MD degree for practice in human side, what will be the duration of MD after completing DVM,
In uk where i am elligible to get admission?
replyyy plzzz
 

bunnity

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Pretty sure you would have to do the full MD degree: four years of school, one year of internship, at least two more years of residency depending on specialty. You might have better luck asking on the international medical forums. We're vet students so we don't know much about getting MD's.
 

Bill59

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I know several folks that went to medical school after vet. school. They all had to do the full 4 years of med. school + postgraduate training of 3-7 years for internship/residency. The ones I know didn't have do do any other prerequisites to apply to med. school but that may vary depending on what courses you took in undergraduate.

Tuition for med school obviously varies with the school.

Interestingly, I don't know any MDs that went to vet. school, but I' sure they're out there. I do know a couple of students that dropped out of medical school to go to vet school.
 

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One thing for sure... you will have to take the MCAT for US med schools. You probably have met all medical schools' course pre-requisites except for the MCAT.

I know it happens, but it doesn't make sense to me why someone would go into medicine after Vet school. It sounds to me you wanted to be a medical doctor in the first place but couldn't get in medical school OR wasn't sure you wanted to be a medical doctor early on. Either way... it doens't make sense specially if it would costs you more money.

I don't think it is a question of being smart either. Anyone who applies themselves and has the stats (to get the interviews) can get through med school, but you probably would need a good reason why you are going for med sch (adcoms will definitely ask this... I know I'm married to one).

I also don't understand being bored with veterinary medicine. Like what was mentioned earlier, veterinary medicine deals with different species and different fields/specialty. If ever, I think it is the other way around. I also think veterinary medicine is a more challenging profession. Heck, you can't communicate with your patient. Take that as a first and big challenge.
 
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I think your best bet might be to contact schools in the UK and ask them directly, since I think a lot of the people on this forum, including me, are from the U.S., and our university degree system is different from the UK's.

I would think that there must also be forums online for UK medical students, where you might be able to get more information.

Or maybe one of the human medical boards on SDN might have some more information for you?

Good luck with whatever you decide!
 

Chanze3

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This reply may be a little late, but I'm super interested in the field of medicine in general. I LOVE animals, more than people... I've aspired to be a vet from young, or a doctor in general. But I leaned more to vet med. However, seeing as there is a lot of dept (excluding the fact that I am also NOT a US PR or citizen. I know it's harder but it's just as hard to get into one in my home country and I've always wanted to go to the states for personal reasons), I feel discouraged by my dreams and may opt for a MD instead, because they're also both super expensive and it may be easier to pay off the dept as a MD. Hopefully in a few years time there will be some colleges offering a hybrid degree for both... that way I can actually follow my dreams...

I really don't know what to opt for. Well, I'm still a sophomore in high school. But I was wondering how pre-med and pre-vet differ. I heard that pre-vets in undergrad need to take a couple more courses than pre-meds... Since for pre-med I need to volunteer at some kinda hospital and as a pre-vet I'll need to do the same at the vet's, has anyone done both successfully before? What kind of doctors/vets should I shadow? I really have no idea right now as to what I will do in the future but I'm definitely looking to the medical field and leaning towards animals.

Honestly, in my bio classroom in school we have these real animal (dead ones ofc) that are dissected for us to see. I don't get too queasy from looking at the anatomy of a cat or a frog, but when I watch a video on human surgery I'm slightly taken aback. Don't get me wrong I'm not scared by human anatomy, I just feel like I'm not as bothered by animals than humans. I kinda feel like even if I went for my MD in med school, I will get used to seeing icky human stuff after a while so this part isn't too much of a problem. I just want to express how much I'm more interested in animal medicine than human medicine.

I'm so stressed out on what'll happen in the future. If I had the money (and maybe the brains? I'm not too confident about my grades now... I don't know what'll happen...), I would probably go for both. But that's still quite a waste of time. I've done some searching around this forum and it appears that there are some people who do both, not too sure... Any advice?
 

KCgophervet

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This reply may be a little late, but I'm super interested in the field of medicine in general. I LOVE animals, more than people... I've aspired to be a vet from young, or a doctor in general. But I leaned more to vet med. However, seeing as there is a lot of dept (excluding the fact that I am also NOT a US PR or citizen. I know it's harder but it's just as hard to get into one in my home country and I've always wanted to go to the states for personal reasons), I feel discouraged by my dreams and may opt for a MD instead, because they're also both super expensive and it may be easier to pay off the dept as a MD. Hopefully in a few years time there will be some colleges offering a hybrid degree for both... that way I can actually follow my dreams...

I really don't know what to opt for. Well, I'm still a sophomore in high school. But I was wondering how pre-med and pre-vet differ. I heard that pre-vets in undergrad need to take a couple more courses than pre-meds... Since for pre-med I need to volunteer at some kinda hospital and as a pre-vet I'll need to do the same at the vet's, has anyone done both successfully before? What kind of doctors/vets should I shadow? I really have no idea right now as to what I will do in the future but I'm definitely looking to the medical field and leaning towards animals.

Honestly, in my bio classroom in school we have these real animal (dead ones ofc) that are dissected for us to see. I don't get too queasy from looking at the anatomy of a cat or a frog, but when I watch a video on human surgery I'm slightly taken aback. Don't get me wrong I'm not scared by human anatomy, I just feel like I'm not as bothered by animals than humans. I kinda feel like even if I went for my MD in med school, I will get used to seeing icky human stuff after a while so this part isn't too much of a problem. I just want to express how much I'm more interested in animal medicine than human medicine.

I'm so stressed out on what'll happen in the future. If I had the money (and maybe the brains? I'm not too confident about my grades now... I don't know what'll happen...), I would probably go for both. But that's still quite a waste of time. I've done some searching around this forum and it appears that there are some people who do both, not too sure... Any advice?
Honestly, I have no idea why you or anyone would want to do both or why you think a hybrid degree for both would even remotely be a good idea. Vet school is hard, and with the amount of information about it nowadays I think if anything it will turn into further separation into species specific degrees rather than combining human medicine into the mix. I honestly can't see that one ever happening, or really understand why it would.

You're only in high school, so I can understand that you really don't know where you want to go with life yet and that's 100% okay. Go to college, don't worry about "pre-med" or "pre-vet", just take the classes that interest you and maybe look up what pre-requisite classes are required for each (vet school and med school, I'm sure there's some overlap) and take those courses. Shadow some veterinarians, get an actual good look at what the field entails. Shadow some MD's and do the same there. You have plenty of time to decide, and once you're in vet or med school you'll understand why it would be so much overkill to do both (and not really worth it besides).
 
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Minnerbelle

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If you're not a citizen or permanent resident, you may not even have the option of going in debt to go to either med school or vet school. You can't get federal student loans, and most private lenders will not loan you that astronomical amount (esp since getting a job after graduation is difficult particularly as a vet since needing to support your visa limits your employer pool. Not sure how difficult it is to get a residency with a US MD degree as a foreigner).

Hell, even going through undergrad is rough. Have you and/or your parents figured out how you will be financing college? If you haven't, look into that first. Then think about how you will finance vet/med school.

I hate to be a Debbie downer, but I personally know many foreign PhDs and MDs who struggle a ton to stay in the US (and those are the ones already with degrees). Once you have those degrees, you can try to get a national interest waiver and apply for a green card. But for that, you need to prove that you are more valuable than other Americans in your field. That's a little tougher to do with an MD.

But before you even get there, you need a way to finance your degree. Either go to school in your home country, get a green card so you can get student loans, or find another source of money.
 

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Actually, the state of Louisiana has a congressman (Ralph Abraham) who is both a veterinarian and a physician. According to his biography, he got his DVM, practiced for ten years, and then decided to switch gears and go to medical school. He became a practicing physician and then got elected to Congress.
 

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Veterinary is a great field. Patients not being able to talk is not quite right. Animals have better communications than us in a sense that the message tends to be clear without any second gains.

Having said the above, make your own decision. Interestingly enough, why would someone go to medical school and THEN become a political hack? His overall knowledge must be phantastically though and there still are a select few decent politicians around so maybe he is one of them. Intriguing indeed. His knowledge of veterinary medicine also makes him much better to understand human Medicine, which pretty much is the same. Most animals have the owners pay the bills and in organized medicine someone else also tends to pay for it.

Untimately, this is a life choice within a life choice. Make up your mind yourself and be happy ;)
 

WhtsThFrequency

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Veterinary is a great field. Patients not being able to talk is not quite right. Animals have better communications than us in a sense that the message tends to be clear without any second gains.

Having said the above, make your own decision. Interestingly enough, why would someone go to medical school and THEN become a political hack? His overall knowledge must be phantastically though and there still are a select few decent politicians around so maybe he is one of them. Intriguing indeed. His knowledge of veterinary medicine also makes him much better to understand human Medicine, which pretty much is the same. Most animals have the owners pay the bills and in organized medicine someone else also tends to pay for it.

Untimately, this is a life choice within a life choice. Make up your mind yourself and be happy ;)

Sidenote....this is not true.

Animals are much, much better at hiding pain than a person, and will absolutely do so. A lot of what we do involves trying to work through this.
 

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Sidenote....this is not true.

Animals are much, much better at hiding pain than a person, and will absolutely do so. A lot of what we do involves trying to work through this.

Really? Do they list the pain on a scale from 1-10 and you adjust the meds after that? My experience with animals from farm, my own cats and birds are not like that. Quite easy to see a cat in pain once you get used to them.

Finally, it is possible that animals are better at HIDING pain (they don't want nature threats to see a weakling), but humans are definitely HANDS DOWN better at faking it.
 

DVMDream

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Really? Do they list the pain on a scale from 1-10 and you adjust the meds after that? My experience with animals from farm, my own cats and birds are not like that. Quite easy to see a cat in pain once you get used to them.

Finally, it is possible that animals are better at HIDING pain (they don't want nature threats to see a weakling), but humans are definitely HANDS DOWN better at faking it.

Did you actually read the post you quoted?
 

DrMason

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Did you actually read the post you quoted?
Yes indeed.

Having said that, I DO believe dragons can mostly communicate. Did a bit of Dungeons&dragons back in the days and at least the older ones could speak common. How do you treat a dragon whose breath weapon is out of function?
 
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DrMason

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Based on your response, I am going to say you clearly did not comprehend the post then. Or you are trolling. I am going with the trolling.

I'm confused by your question. What exactly is it I do not get?

Not sure if some humor over your dragon school is a marker of "trolling" but OK, if you say so. A great wizard can still slay them all, so not to worry...
 

DVMDream

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I'm confused by your question. What exactly is it I do not get?

Not sure if some humor over your dragon school is a marker of "trolling" but OK, if you say so. A great wizard can still slay them all, so not to worry...


Sidenote....this is not true.

Animals are much, much better at hiding pain than a person, and will absolutely do so. A lot of what we do involves trying to work through this.

Finally, it is possible that animals are better at HIDING pain (they don't want nature threats to see a weakling), but humans are definitely HANDS DOWN better at faking it.

Clearly if you have to repeat what the poster told you, you did not read. So either you are dumber than a box of rocks. Or you are a troll. Take your pick, I don't care which.
 

DrMason

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Clearly if you have to repeat what the poster told you, you did not read. So either you are dumber than a box of rocks. Or you are a troll. Take your pick, I don't care which.


Done yet?!?! Normal customs would be to repeat what you are trying to say. So if one doesn't get what you say its because of being "dumber than a brick of ricks" or a "troll". I guess I also agreed with the bold print, so WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM??

You guys are some incredible stiffs!! Whining and whining over this and all I said was I don't get what you are trying to say. Do with that what you can. Maybe you are from the troll school yourself? You seem to know a lot about it.

Enough said.. This is not constructive. I know most dragons are WAY taller than a horse, but STILL...
 

KCgophervet

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Done yet?!?! Normal customs would be to repeat what you are trying to say. So if one doesn't get what you say its because of being "dumber than a brick of ricks" or a "troll". I guess I also agreed with the bold print, so WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM??

You guys are some incredible stiffs!! Whining and whining over this and all I said was I don't get what you are trying to say. Do with that what you can. Maybe you are from the troll school yourself? You seem to know a lot about it.

Enough said.. This is not constructive. I know most dragons are WAY taller than a horse, but STILL...
I think DVMD is trying to say that the post you quoted said "ANIMALS ARE GOOD AT HIDING PAIN" and you responded with "NOT TRUE THEY ARE SO EASY TO READ AND MAYBE THEY HIDE PAIN BUT HUMANS FAKE IT" and really it just became a weird circle after that. I think the point was lost somewhere in there.

Yeah okay humans fake it, but animals hide it and they can't talk and tell you where it is which makes diagnosing it or properly controlling it a hell of a lot more difficult than asking a human "rate on a scale of 1-10" and "point to where it hurts." And no, it's not "super obvious" except maybe for your own personal pets who you spend all your time with, but not all pets show pain the same way, some won't show it at all unless its incredibly bad, and not all owners are perceptive enough to see it or tell you. So... I really don't know what the point of arguing about it is. It's starting to sound like a "no MY job is harder than yours" argument at this point. :shrug:
 

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I think DVMD is trying to say that the post you quoted said "ANIMALS ARE GOOD AT HIDING PAIN" and you responded with "NOT TRUE THEY ARE SO EASY TO READ AND MAYBE THEY HIDE PAIN BUT HUMANS FAKE IT" and really it just became a weird circle after that. I think the point was lost somewhere in there.

Yeah okay humans fake it, but animals hide it and they can't talk and tell you where it is which makes diagnosing it or properly controlling it a hell of a lot more difficult than asking a human "rate on a scale of 1-10" and "point to where it hurts." And no, it's not "super obvious" except maybe for your own personal pets who you spend all your time with, but not all pets show pain the same way, some won't show it at all unless its incredibly bad, and not all owners are perceptive enough to see it or tell you. So... I really don't know what the point of arguing about it is. It's starting to sound like a "no MY job is harder than yours" argument at this point. :shrug:

That's more like it. A reasonable clarification and I actually learned something, not like someone looking for a gotcha moment. Otherwise, I never said "not true" and I DID refer to my own animals. I also have (in the past) had a friend that had a pet mountain lion that was simply lying down one day and not getting up. Purring and looking good, but it turned out it had broken a leg and the vet said the purring was to calm pain. Then I speculated that it was likely due to animals being in a more obvious survival mode at all times, trying not to show weakness. The OPPOSITE is that humans fake pain and misery, for secondary gains. Also, you are correct. Animals don't talk, but at least they do not lie!! They don't tell you the pain is 11on a scale of 1-10 while they flip the channels in the ER room and tells the nurses to give them steak instead of macaroni, LOL.

the "not true" came from someone else. That's fine, but I did not say it. Thanks for the clarification. The other guy was just being a jackass trying to pick a fight or "put me in place". No need to look any further there.

Good luck onwards and while you are at it (and I am not being ignorant, but asking something I never can get answered). I love animals and the best part of it is that no matter how wild they are, they are nowhere as vile as most human beings...;)
 

Cyndia

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That's more like it. A reasonable clarification and I actually learned something, not like someone looking for a gotcha moment. Otherwise, I never said "not true" and I DID refer to my own animals. I also have (in the past) had a friend that had a pet mountain lion that was simply lying down one day and not getting up. Purring and looking good, but it turned out it had broken a leg and the vet said the purring was to calm pain. Then I speculated that it was likely due to animals being in a more obvious survival mode at all times, trying not to show weakness. The OPPOSITE is that humans fake pain and misery, for secondary gains. Also, you are correct. Animals don't talk, but at least they do not lie!! They don't tell you the pain is 11on a scale of 1-10 while they flip the channels in the ER room and tells the nurses to give them steak instead of macaroni, LOL.

the "not true" came from someone else. That's fine, but I did not say it. Thanks for the clarification. The other guy was just being a jackass trying to pick a fight or "put me in place". No need to look any further there.

Good luck onwards and while you are at it (and I am not being ignorant, but asking something I never can get answered). I love animals and the best part of it is that no matter how wild they are, they are nowhere as vile as most human beings...;)

For the record, don't forget that every animal comes in attached to a human being... And some of them have ulterior motives in veterinary medicine, too. For example, I've heard plenty of warning of owners abusing pet prescriptions, as well as some owners will freak out and lie (intentionally and unintentionally) about their pets clinical signs and behavioral changes. I remember one client who catastrophized everything, one day she came into my old clinic freaking out and insisting we do something immediately because her pet had black vomitus. Of course, when I pointed out various things in the room to gauge how it was colored in comparison, it eventually came out it was barely even light brown.

In any case, I think we can definitely both agree, humans suck sometimes! ;)
 
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Shepherd Lover

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That's more like it. A reasonable clarification and I actually learned something, not like someone looking for a gotcha moment. Otherwise, I never said "not true" and I DID refer to my own animals. I also have (in the past) had a friend that had a pet mountain lion that was simply lying down one day and not getting up. Purring and looking good, but it turned out it had broken a leg and the vet said the purring was to calm pain. Then I speculated that it was likely due to animals being in a more obvious survival mode at all times, trying not to show weakness. The OPPOSITE is that humans fake pain and misery, for secondary gains. Also, you are correct. Animals don't talk, but at least they do not lie!! They don't tell you the pain is 11on a scale of 1-10 while they flip the channels in the ER room and tells the nurses to give them steak instead of macaroni, LOL.

the "not true" came from someone else. That's fine, but I did not say it. Thanks for the clarification. The other guy was just being a jackass trying to pick a fight or "put me in place". No need to look any further there.

Good luck onwards and while you are at it (and I am not being ignorant, but asking something I never can get answered). I love animals and the best part of it is that no matter how wild they are, they are nowhere as vile as most human beings...;)
The lion probably wasn't putting to pretend that he wasn't in pain, but rather was purring to help heal his injury. Felines purr for a variety of reasons.


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DVMDream

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The lion probably wasn't putting to pretend that he wasn't in pain, but rather was purring to help heal his injury. Felines purr for a variety of reasons.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Purring can be a sign of pain in cats. I don't know of anything stating that purring aids in healing, but cats will purr because they are content/happy/painful/confused/etc. A purr can be a sign of content and happiness, but it can also be a mechanism to calm the animal in times of pain or distress.
 

Shepherd Lover

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Purring can be a sign of pain in cats. I don't know of anything stating that purring aids in healing, but cats will purr because they are content/happy/painful/confused/etc. A purr can be a sign of content and happiness, but it can also be a mechanism to calm the animal in times of pain or distress.
The behavior professor at Purdue's CVM told us that it's thought to potentially aid in bone healing. I have no reference to support that claim, though :)


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The behavior professor at Purdue's CVM told us that it's thought to potentially aid in bone healing. I have no reference to support that claim, though :)

I found this: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-cats-purr/

Apparently:

Scientists have demonstrated that cats produce the purr through intermittent signaling of the laryngeal and diaphragmatic muscles. Cats purr during both inhalation and exhalation with a consistent pattern and frequency between 25 and 150 Hertz. Various investigators have shown that sound frequencies in this range can improve bone density and promote healing.

I haven't found a primary research article, though.
 
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