MD as backup to DVM?

[disabled&proud]

My friend has a friend who is a vet now, and told him that when she was applying she also applied to MD programs as a backup, and that this is "common." The claim is that getting into an MD program is easier (as in, statistically speaking due to the greater number of MD programs that exist in the first place, there is a better chance of admission, *not* because the prereq coursework or other expectations are less rigorous or intellectually/emotionally easier, because in fact they're almost identical). And either way, you get to practice medicine.

I have two questions:

1. Is this real? Is anyone doing this? Or did my friend maybe misinterpret what he was told (given he's an engineer and uninvested in medicine in general) and really it's just sometimes people change their minds?

2. If anyone here started out pre-vet and changed your mind and are now pre-med (or currently in a medical school or now a human doctor), I would love to know what changed your mind. Personally, I'm like 90% sure about vet school at this point, but there's that 10% in the back of my mind nagging at me that human doctors get to do way more really cool procedures/surgeries (because humans have health insurance and also human medicine has a deeper history and more research money to invent new procedures that someone may actually be able to pay for), and also human doctors earn a lot more than veterinary doctors do and therefore are probably more likely to be able to afford both the student loan payments and a mortgage. I'm kind of expecting if I go to vet school I will never be able to afford to own my own place to live, especially as a non-trad student with minimal assets in my thirties. If I will love it, it will be worth it, because I have never had a job I actually liked (and none of them have paid me a living wage or given me full benefits). But I am open to being convinced to switch to human instead of veterinary medicine. (I love the science of physiology and the "detective" work that goes into figuring out what's wrong and how to fix it, and I have seen a number of veterinary surgeries and that looks just so much fun to me.)

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[AJS59]

Statistically it might be easier but I don't see how anyone would be able to apply to a MD program as a backup especially knowing that someone who has every intention of being a vet likely doesn't have a lot of human clinical experience (or additionally, human non-clinical service work) to their name

 

[Goro]

MD schools do NOT like being used as backups

 

[Mr.Smile12]

My friend has a friend who is a vet now, and told him that when she was applying she also applied to MD programs as a backup, and that this is "common." The claim is that getting into an MD program is easier (as in, statistically speaking due to the greater number of MD programs that exist in the first place, there is a better chance of admission, *not* because the prereq coursework or other expectations are less rigorous or intellectually/emotionally easier, because in fact they're almost identical). And either way, you get to practice medicine. ...

Sorry.

We support pre-vets too, and they have their own forum.

 

[disabled&proud]

Statistically it might be easier but I don't see how anyone would be able to apply to a MD program as a backup especially knowing that someone who has every intention of being a vet likely doesn't have a lot of human clinical experience (or additionally, human non-clinical service work) to their name

Yeah this is why I am thinking my friend misunderstood what he was told, and why I'm asking this question here. Like maybe his friend meant some people get sick of not getting accepted to DVM programs after a few rounds of applications, and then do the work to try out human med via human clinical experiences and ultimately go the MD route. I just can't imagine wasting peoples' time (including my own) trying to shadow/volunteer in human clinical unless I was definitely changing plans.

 

[LunaOri]

Neither field is a backup for the other. Try to get some clinical exposure in both (at least shadow MDs and DVMs) and see which you prefer. Both require clinical exposure to have a successful application. Also, vets do a lot more surgeries and procedures than most physicians, so if that's what you are interested in doing, vet school may be the place for you.

 

[FarmGirl2]

That really doesn't make sense, as they are completely different careers. I went through med school, worked as a doctor for 20 years, and am now in vet school. If your friend wants to be a vet, but ends up going to med school s/he will be miserable. They are both an incredible amount of work. It would be horrible to go through all of that work, expense, and training to end up with a career that you are not thrilled with.

 

[Splenda88]

Statistically it might be easier but I don't see how anyone would be able to apply to a MD program as a backup especially knowing that someone who has every intention of being a vet likely doesn't have a lot of human clinical experience (or additionally, human non-clinical service work) to their name

Not easier. You have to take into account the applicant pool. I took classes in college with people who are vet now, and they would never make it into US med school.

One of my colleagues daughter is applying to vet school now without the GRE as there are few schools that do not even require it. Imaging a medical student being afraid to take standardized exam such as the GRE.

 

[disabled&proud]

One of my colleagues daughter is applying to vet school now without the GRE as they are few schools that do not even require it. Imaging a medical student being afraid to take standardized exam such as the GRE.

From what I've seen most vet schools do not require the GRE. This is probably because the GRE tests knowledge usually taught in high school or the first year of college (nothing above that), and there's a lot of longitudinal research showing it isn't well-correlated with grad school success. Most universities are starting to drop GRE requirements, from what I've seen or heard, just in general. It's not like the MCAT which is designed to test your knowledge of information that you will need to know the moment you step into med school, and which absolutely was not all covered in high school. I took the GRE and was absolutely shocked by how easy it was. (I did need it to get into grad school, but I think my cohort for that program was the last one that was going to be required to take it.) Nothing in the GRE was actually relevant to my research or coursework in grad school. Even the essay (which I got the highest possible score on) was a completely different kind of writing than I did in grad school classes or for my thesis. I wouldn't assume that someone who doesn't want to take the GRE is afraid. Maybe she just doesn't want to waste her time and money on something that isn't required when vet experience hours and GPA are usually weighted way more in an application.

 

[disabled&proud]

It would be horrible to go through all of that work, expense, and training to end up with a career that you are not thrilled with.

Totally real. Totally what I'm dealing with now, though with a PhD in a field I want out of, instead of an MD or DVM. Although, luckily a PhD (usually) pays you to be there, not the other way around, so I don't have the $200k in debt that an MD or DVM does. I would've quit my PhD except one month after I made that decision, COVID hit, and the job market went absolutely haywire, so I stuck it out because none of the side job apps I made went anywhere (if they'd hired me I would have left to take the job).

If you don't mind a side question, given you are uniquely able to comment on this matter, how did you get enough vet experience hours to get into vet school? I have definitely been told that part of why I am not getting entry level vet assistant jobs is because anyone with a graduate degree isn't expected to stick around and they don't want to train someone and have them turn around and leave for a job that pays 3-5 times as much, which is totally legitimate, I just don't know how to say I won't do that because I hate my field and my research is so niche there's really only 3-8 full time jobs per calendar year for me to apply to with my PhD anyway - and plenty of other people in this niche applying to those jobs. I have more than the minimum by far, but only like 1/3 of the hours compared to the average applicant, and almost all of those are in wildlife rehab (where I volunteer), which by definition isn't showing me a full range of what vet med looks like because a wild animal doesn't come in for preventive care, or have an owner to pay for things so lots of stuff isn't in budget, or there's things that you don't do for wildlife that you absolutely do for pets because the pet can go home to a couch and a family willing to dote on them while the wild animal has to be able to survive in the wild after release.

 

[Splenda88]

From what I've seen most vet schools do not require the GRE. This is probably because the GRE tests knowledge usually taught in high school or the first year of college (nothing above that), and there's a lot of longitudinal research showing it isn't well-correlated with grad school success. Most universities are starting to drop GRE requirements, from what I've seen or heard, just in general. It's not like the MCAT which is designed to test your knowledge of information that you will need to know the moment you step into med school, and which absolutely was not all covered in high school. I took the GRE and was absolutely shocked by how easy it was. (I did need it to get into grad school, but I think my cohort for that program was the last one that was going to be required to take it.) Nothing in the GRE was actually relevant to my research or coursework in grad school. Even the essay (which I got the highest possible score on) was a completely different kind of writing than I did in grad school classes or for my thesis. I wouldn't assume that someone who doesn't want to take the GRE is afraid. Maybe she just doesn't want to waste her time and money on something that isn't required when vet experience hours and GPA are usually weighted way more in an application.

I am not making any assumption because my colleague told me the person in question does not want to take the GRE because she is not good at taking standardized exams.

Again, acceptance rate is not the way to assess the difficulty of getting into med school vs. vet school vs. PA school vs. dental school etc... because the applicant pool is different. It's a lot harder to get into med school than vet school because of the applicant pool.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yeah this wouldn't really work for reasons everyone else has already explained.

We want people who want to be physicians, nort vets, and I can't imagine the hours an applicant would have to work to put together even a mediocre application to both programs

 

[FarmGirl2]

Totally real. Totally what I'm dealing with now, though with a PhD in a field I want out of, instead of an MD or DVM. Although, luckily a PhD (usually) pays you to be there, not the other way around, so I don't have the $200k in debt that an MD or DVM does. I would've quit my PhD except one month after I made that decision, COVID hit, and the job market went absolutely haywire, so I stuck it out because none of the side job apps I made went anywhere (if they'd hired me I would have left to take the job).

If you don't mind a side question, given you are uniquely able to comment on this matter, how did you get enough vet experience hours to get into vet school? I have definitely been told that part of why I am not getting entry level vet assistant jobs is because anyone with a graduate degree isn't expected to stick around and they don't want to train someone and have them turn around and leave for a job that pays 3-5 times as much, which is totally legitimate, I just don't know how to say I won't do that because I hate my field and my research is so niche there's really only 3-8 full time jobs per calendar year for me to apply to with my PhD anyway - and plenty of other people in this niche applying to those jobs. I have more than the minimum by far, but only like 1/3 of the hours compared to the average applicant, and almost all of those are in wildlife rehab (where I volunteer), which by definition isn't showing me a full range of what vet med looks like because a wild animal doesn't come in for preventive care, or have an owner to pay for things so lots of stuff isn't in budget, or there's things that you don't do for wildlife that you absolutely do for pets because the pet can go home to a couch and a family willing to dote on them while the wild animal has to be able to survive in the wild after release.

I started off volunteering with a vet to get my 180 hours (that is what Davis requires). After completing those hours, I ended up working there for a little bit part time. I did not have nearly the number of hours that a lot of my classmates did, however, it did not seem to hurt my application.

 

[WildWing]

@lungstongueseyeballs If you do end up going the vet route (like it sounds like you want to do), look into the VIN Foundation scholarship. They also have good materials on repaying debt and recommend strongly that you go to the cheapest school you get into.

 

[disabled&proud]

I started off volunteering with a vet to get my 180 hours (that is what Davis requires). After completing those hours, I ended up working there for a little bit part time. I did not have nearly the number of hours that a lot of my classmates did, however, it did not seem to hurt my application.

Thank you! This is heartening to know. Davis is my in state, and I have like 500 hours from volunteering, but not even close to the 1500 or so that the average admitted student has according to their stats, so I was getting worried. I won't worry about it so much anymore. The hours I do have are very high quality, just more like a little trickle over the past 2 years instead of something like folks who get a vet assistant job have.

 

[disabled&proud]

@lungstongueseyeballs If you do end up going the vet route (like it sounds like you want to do), look into the VIN Foundation scholarship. They also have good materials on repaying debt and recommend strongly that you go to the cheapest school you get into.

Thank you! Yes, at the moment I do think I will go the vet route. Unless I find out something that makes me feel meh about it, then I'll be looking for ways to see if human surgery would be worth it (I know that's a really hard process, with long residencies, but surgery is the most exciting aspect of medicine, vet or human, to me - lots of other aspects are fun, too, that's just the part that I've been most excited about when I've watched/volunteered with veterinary surgeons).